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Any New Australia-US Rumors?  
User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (6 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 8355 times:

Just checking in on this subject. I know it's come up many times here, but what's the latest on Australian aviation leaving Australia and heading for the US? Are DFW/ORD still in the picture?

What other markets could we see Australian airlines flying into in the US?

Also, will any US carriers be thinking/starting service to Australia?

The US-Australia market is so unsaturated, which I believe drives ticket prices up, and I don't understand why more US carriers don't fly the route?

UAL

117 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5712 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (6 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 8311 times:

I presume you know about the VA launch in Dec? Other than that, not much seems to be happening.

I personally think you will see DFW from SYD shortly after QF receives its 10/11th A380 which I think is in the 2010/2011 time frame. These frames should have most/all of the weight reduction mods that have been talked about here and elsewhere.

The recent spat with LAX management over the A380 suggest to me it is becoming more likely that QF will start to divert CONNECTING traffic away from LAX where this works for them. For east of the Rockies connecting traffic DFW as AAs mega hub is the obvious target.

With the weight reduced A380s it becomes more likely. The A380 being delivered next month could do SYD-DFW no problems, DFW-SYD being more problematic, with the weight reduced examples, it will become less so, IMHO sufficiently less so that QF will attempt it. NAN makes a handy west bound fuel stop if required on this route.

Other than that, I don't see much. I think after the VA launch, DL is even less likely & I still think ATL-SYD non stop is not on. NW MAY try to relaunch routes via Japan, if the US/Japan bi-lateral is sufficiently liberal to allow it to be profitable, but its still a long shot.

Gemuser



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User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3594 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (6 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 8297 times:

Expect DL to announce service to Australia to begin in 2010. It remains to be seen where the service will originate from.

How is that for a new rumor?

Truth?


User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5351 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (6 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 8283 times:

Mainly this route requires 2 aircraft to maintain a daily service. And on top of that a lot of crew.

Also UA actually have a decent 744 fleet and have been flying to Australia since they replaced PA in 1986, whereas other airlines seem to have a limited number of long haul aircraft and lack West Coast hubs.

Quoting UAL747 (Thread starter):
What other markets could we see Australian airlines flying into in the US?

QF quite likely will fly to DFW when they have enough A380s or 787s a few years from now. Not really sure that there are many other destinations Australian airlines will consider in the US.


User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2932 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (6 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 8280 times:



Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 2):
Expect DL to announce service to Australia to begin in 2010. It remains to be seen where the service will originate from.

I would guess ATL. Can their longer range 777's make the trip?


User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9666 posts, RR: 52
Reply 5, posted (6 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 8217 times:

I think the best chance of new service to Australia will be utilizing NW's Pacific network. It's possible that they might use a 787 on the route. SEA-SYD might work. I doubt any airline will want to deal with QF and UA on both LAX and SFO to SYD.


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineFlynavy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (6 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 8203 times:



Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 4):
Can their longer range 777's make the trip?

No, as our 777-200LRs are not equipped with auxiliary fuel tanks. Approximate range for the 777-232LR as configured for DAL is roughly 8,800 mi.


User currently offlineNickofatlanta From Australia, joined May 2000, 1488 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 8146 times:

Agree with ZK-NBT - oz-u.s. is a resource-intensive market to operate in and i can't see any other destination other than dfw (with the obvious advantages of the mammoth aa hub) that aussie carriers would be interested in flying to in the states ...

User currently offlineAlangirvan From New Zealand, joined Nov 2000, 2106 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (6 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 8070 times:

IAH would be just as good a port from Australia/NZ as DFW. When CO starts paying attention to Star Alliance members in the Pacific, AirNZ might find IAH is a better port to use than ORD where they would link into UA's network.

User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5351 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (6 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 8042 times:



Quoting Alangirvan (Reply 8):
IAH would be just as good a port from Australia/NZ as DFW. When CO starts paying attention to Star Alliance members in the Pacific, AirNZ might find IAH is a better port to use than ORD where they would link into UA's network.

I guess for NZ it could well be. But not for QF.

Remember NZ flew to DFW briefly in the late 1980s. AKL-PPT-DFW-LGW-FRA I think it was with a 742.

Further to what I said in my previous post.

I do think DL may give Australia a go in future.

Quoting Flynavy (Reply 6):
Can their longer range 777's make the trip?

No, as our 777-200LRs are not equipped with auxiliary fuel tanks. Approximate range for the 777-232LR as configured for DAL is roughly 8,800 mi.

Maybe not from ATL but LAX for sure.


User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9555 posts, RR: 14
Reply 10, posted (6 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 8015 times:

ATL-LAX-SYD starting late 09 early 10 on DL with a 77L 3x weekly.
just a guess.  Wink

Quoting Flynavy (Reply 6):
No, as our 777-200LRs are not equipped with auxiliary fuel tanks. Approximate range for the 777-232LR as configured for DAL is roughly 8,800 mi.

For now at least. Even with the tanks I still think DL would need 200-300nm out of the 77Ls on top of the 9,500nm



yep.
User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5712 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (6 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 7992 times:



Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 2):
Expect DL to announce service to Australia to begin in 2010

With their own metal? Somehow I doubt it. As a code share with VA, very likely.

Gemuser



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User currently offlineFlynavy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (6 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 7982 times:



Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 9):
Maybe not from ATL but LAX for sure.

Well, he mentioned ATL-SYD, which is out of range of the 77L without aux tanks.

Here we go again - another Delta ATL-SYD debate!  Smile


User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9555 posts, RR: 14
Reply 13, posted (6 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 7927 times:



Quoting Flynavy (Reply 12):
Here we go again - another Delta ATL-SYD debate!

LOL then we will get into a Merger debate then a when will DL/NW retire the 9s and at the end of the night we will have a Boeing vs Airbus thread. Big grin



yep.
User currently offlineEghansen From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (6 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7873 times:



Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 3):

QF quite likely will fly to DFW when they have enough A380s or 787s a few years from now. Not really sure that there are many other destinations Australian airlines will consider in the US.

I am skeptical that the market exists. After all, if there was such a strong market for SYD-DFW, QF could just buy a couple of A340-500s to run the route with them like Singapore does.

One has to remember that Australia only has 20 million people which is less than California, Texas or Florida (or Spain for that matter). There is a limit on the amount of traffic from Australia to the world.

I suspect that Qantas are happy with the routes to LAX and SFO and probably are not planning for anything else.


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25409 posts, RR: 86
Reply 15, posted (6 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 7830 times:
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Quoting Eghansen (Reply 14):
I am skeptical that the market exists.

I agree with that. The natural point of contact for Australians is the west coast. Even if they have business somewhere else in the US, many Aussies will arrange a California stopover.

For US travelers, the market can be forced through DFW, I guess, but - why?

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5712 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (6 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 7749 times:



Quoting Eghansen (Reply 14):
I am skeptical that the market exists. After all, if there was such a strong market for SYD-DFW, QF could just buy a couple of A340-500s to run the route with them like Singapore does.



Quoting Mariner (Reply 15):
agree with that. The natural point of contact for Australians is the west coast

While it is quite possible you are both right, I think there is a good chance that DFW could work as a major transfer hub for North America, east of the Rockies.

Eghansen - QF don't do sub fleets, ever. The reasons for this are historical & distance, they are very unlikely to ever order a type that doesn't have general use within some definable, sufficiently sized sector. A couple of anything, to serve any one port just seems very unlikely. The only exception is, of course, SYD/MEL-LHR, non stop, again a special case.

Mariner - while this is true, to date, I think the market is now about large enough, to handle some west coast by pass. Which it clearly was not when AA tried it in the 70s. Add in a congested LAX, which, from several threads on here seems to want to concentrate on O&D facilities, then developing some "by-pass" capacity seems reasonable. Add in that DFW is AAs mega hub and the connection possibilities are immense, it all seems possible. The proof of pudding is in the eating, of course, so we won't know untill QF or somebody tries it.

Gemuser



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User currently offlineTayser From Australia, joined Mar 2008, 1131 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 7706 times:

With V Australia not interested in MEL-US West Coast direct, expect the Victorian Government to lobby louder and harder for lifting non-AUS/US carrier restrictions.

User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25409 posts, RR: 86
Reply 18, posted (6 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 7653 times:
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Quoting Gemuser (Reply 16):
Add in that DFW is AAs mega hub and the connection possibilities are immense, it all seems possible.

Again - why?

It make work for eastern connections from the US, but I don't see that it works as well for Australians going to the US.

There's very little Australian infrastructure in Dallas. I'm not sure there is even a consulate.

If Qantas want to do it, fine, but why expend extra fuel going the extra distance when really there is no great need?

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineREALDEAL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (6 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 7617 times:



Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 5):
SEA-SYD might work.

SEA/BNE might work, especially as no longer any direct route BNE/YVR since 01.


User currently offlineAlangirvan From New Zealand, joined Nov 2000, 2106 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (6 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7572 times:



Quoting Tayser (Reply 17):
With V Australia not interested in MEL-US West Coast direct, expect the Victorian Government to lobby louder and harder for lifting non-AUS/US carrier restrictions.

How interested do you think non-AUS/US carriers would be in traffic that does not involve SYD? You could call SQ's bluff and allow them unlimited flights between Australian ports other than SYD and the USA.

MEL-LAX would make good use of Delta's 77Ls - best payload including cargo of any type currently available.

Qantas/AA is the oneworld partnership, UA and NZ are the Star Alliance partnership. So, V Australia and Delta would partner. Australia/NZ traffic should be strong enough to support the three alliances.


User currently offlineTayser From Australia, joined Mar 2008, 1131 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 7521 times:



Quoting Alangirvan (Reply 20):
How interested do you think non-AUS/US carriers would be in traffic that does not involve SYD? You could call SQ's bluff and allow them unlimited flights between Australian ports other than SYD and the USA.

That's the point: do it and see what happens. I'm pretty sure the Victorian Government would put together an incentive package to coax either SQ or EK.

Do NZ have the aircraft to run an Australia - US West Coast service that doesn't go via AKL/CHC either now or on order?


User currently offlineAlangirvan From New Zealand, joined Nov 2000, 2106 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (6 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 7507 times:



Quoting Tayser (Reply 21):
Do NZ have the aircraft to run an Australia - US West Coast service that doesn't go via AKL/CHC either now or on order?

Some people have said that the 744s which used to do SYD-LAX now have a configuration that makes that route harder to do. 744s and 777-200ERs could do SYD or BNE to LAX/SFO, but might be reconfigured. On order, if the 77Ws are going to be operated at the same weights as the VA 77Ws, they would have the same range. MEL to US West Coast is the one where Qantas operates 747-400ERs and soon A380s, so I think AirNZ would have some problems there. I think Delta's 77Ls would have a better payload range between LAX and MEL than VA's 77Ws. Of course, 787s will have the range, but no one knows when AirNZ will actually see those planes. Maybe after the London Olympics.

Since this thread is total speculation - how about PHX as a US gateway for Australia/NZ flights? US Airways will have A350s, and PHX is only a bit further away from Australia than US West Coast. PHX has flights to US East Coast cities.


User currently offlineThestooges From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (6 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 7447 times:

Australia may in fact only have a population of 20 million which is definitely smaller than California, Texas or Florida HOWEVER Australians are extremely prolific travellers. The average person in one of the above mentioned States probably has never been outside of the US (with the exception of a maybe a trip to Canada or Mexico) whereas the average Australian has most likely flown to Europe or the US at least once. It was mentioned in another post that Qantas is the 10th largest airline in the world but that Australia is the 34th largest country by population. One might argue that the size of airlines like Emirates or Singapore are even more disproportionate in comparison to their home countries population but a significant amount of thier traffic comes from Australians flying the Kangaroo route. Those airlines wouldn't be what they are today if it weren't for their hubs being so conveniently located between Australia and Europe.

Australians are very aware of their extremely isolated position in the world . They almost have a chip on thier shoulder about this and make up for it by travelling as much as they do. At the moment the economy is doing well, especially the dollar, which is almost equal to the American one now, so an increase in Australians flying to the US is practically inevitable. The new Working Holiday Visa agreement between the US and Australia, which allows young people to live and work in each others country for one year, will also likely boost traffic between the two.

This all said, I still don't ever think we'll see another American carrier start flying to Australia and if they do it will only be to replace United's service if they drop the route or are liquidated. United has been the only American airline serving Australia from the US for years, their route authorities having been inherited from Pan Am. Continental dropped out over 10 years ago and both American and Northwest came and went. Delta might be a possibility given their recent aggresive international expansion, but even if they do start service who's to say it will last and if succesfull they might drive United out and it'll be back to one American carrier again !!!

Any growth on this route will most likely be from the Australian side in the form of Qantas and V Australia or even the Singaporean side if Singapore Airlines EVER gets in on the deal.


User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5712 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (6 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 7424 times:



Quoting Mariner (Reply 18):
Again - why?

It make work for eastern connections from the US, but I don't see that it works as well for Australians going to the US.

If you are going to the USA, east of the Rockies, DFW has the potential to work very well for Ozzies, as a connecting point. Not everybody NEEDS to stop in LAX. DFW is a relatively uncongested airport, especially in the international terminal and can actually offer faster total time to many North American ports.

Have a look at AAs PDF timetables. Given an appropriate SYD-DFW timetable it would be possible to construct a SYD-NYC itinerary faster than the QF thru flight and into LGA too. There are many other such possibilities. AA have 5-6 times the connections at DFW that they have at LAX.

Of course, it is a reasonable question to ask if this traffic sufficient to justify openning a new route? Nobody outside QF route planning can answer that, but the wind does seem to be blowing that way.

Also opening up more, easy connections over DFW will also strengthen QFs overall position in the market. With VA happening, DL/NW maybe happening, SQ maybe happening, all of which will require some new moves on QFs part.

Gemuser



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25 102IAHexpress : Actually CO has and continues to serve Australia via their GUM hub. Guam is wholly part of the United States.
26 SLCUT2777 : One question I have; Is the North American/Australian passenger market strictly a SYD-LAX, SFO, YVR only? Or is this simply also a matter of logistics
27 LAXdude1023 : Indeed. The advantage of QF at DFW is the mega hub that AA has there coupled with the hub QF had at SYD. Thats the only way I would give the flight a
28 777STL : HA also serves SYD a few times/week.
29 BA744PHX : LAXdude, If you don't mind me asking where did you get those numbers from?
30 LAXdude1023 : No problem. They are based off of PDEW data. Which is basically passengers in each direction per day. The numbers are approximate because I havent lo
31 LAXintl : For people talking about QF to DFW, I really cant see the economics of such a flight working. 1) Local market is barely existent. 2) Flight would have
32 LAXdude1023 : Can you really see the economics of a SYD flight that doesnt fly from SFO or LAX?
33 SLCUT2777 : AC has done YVR-SYD for years on 762/763. QF also has done SYD/YVR service via HNL. Only in the last year or two have we seen newer, longer range air
34 CcrlR : The 777-200LR could do the SYD-DFW route(if AA wanted, they could pick it up with approval and aircraft), I am not sure if ti will do the ORD route i
35 WorldTraveler : There is no justification for saying that SYD-DFW will work but ATL will not. None. Those who spout such rhethoic demonstrate their bias and inability
36 LAXdude1023 : I went ahead and took another look at the O&D data. Its based off of passengers per direction per day. Here are the largest markets to Australia and t
37 102IAHexpress : OneWorld?
38 LAXdude1023 : Worldtraveler, the advantage DFW has is that QF and AA are close partners and that DFW is further west, thus making it able to capture more traffic.
39 WorldTraveler : remember that AA served Australia with a one stop routing via HNL that they won over DL and then proceeded to drop wihtin a couple years. Even with t
40 LAXdude1023 : Im not saying that Oneworld will keep DL from succeeding. What I am saying is that DFW, QF, and AA have an advatage over ATL and DL in this situation
41 Mir : It opens up a lot more markets for one-stop US-Australia service. LAX doesn't have nearly the number of connection possibilities that DFW has. Here's
42 DLPMMM : My guess is that DL will either: 1. Start up SEA-SYD and use the NW focus in SEA to funnel connections to NYC, and other points east. 2. Serve SYD via
43 Rwy04LGA : Isn't that why everybody comes here?
44 Viscount724 : Only with a stop at HNL. YVR-SYD is well beyond the nonstop range of the 763. AC operated nonstop with the A340-300 for a while but only northbound.
45 Mir : If DL does fly to SYD, it will be from a west coast city. There will be no same plane connection to ATL - it just makes no sense. SEA-SYD is not curr
46 LAXdude1023 : In my opinion, this would be the smartest move. If DL can turn SEA into a transpac hub, SEA-SYD would be a good flight even through the local market
47 Mariner : No, they don't. But quite a large majority do, and, as I said before, many more "want" to stop in LAX - or SFO - either going there or coming back be
48 LAXdude1023 : 1) DFW's hub is much larger 2) Both Cities have tiny markets to Australia to begin with 3) DFW is closer, would be a cheaper flight to operate, and i
49 Mariner : I understand all those things, and, as noted above, I said "all things being equal and if they had an aircraft to do it". But in reality, how many Au
50 Eghansen : I would not consider the A340 a subfleet when Qantas flies 15 A330's. As I understand it, they are considered to be the same type rating. As far as I
51 102IAHexpress : I seriously doubt that Texas will have a non-stop to Australia anytime soon, but just for fun and mere speculation, the most likely route from Texas w
52 LAXdude1023 : Houstons local traffic to Australia is exactly the same in quantity as DFW. The most likely route would be via DFW not IAH for the mere fact that the
53 Post contains links 102IAHexpress : Yes according to your numbers the local traffic is exactly the same, but I'm arguing that Houston's traffic is higher yielding. Straight from the Aus
54 DLPMMM : The pilot type rating is the least of the sub-fleet problems.
55 LAXdude1023 : IAH might have better business ties. They do to most international destinations. But QF has a huge hub at SYD and I dont think IAH's biz ties would b
56 Bjwonline : I agree 100%. QF will have to do something different to keep that step ahead of new competition and I think that they will be ready for it when it ha
57 Eghansen : Whatever the reasons are, I still believe that if Qantas wanted to fly to DFW, they would fly to DFW. There are airplanes out there that can make the
58 LAXdude1023 : Its not quite that cut and dry. IF QF wants to, but doesnt have the appropriate plane, they would have to wait until they get it. Certain planes are
59 Tayser : Put simply: Sydney: 4.3 million Melbourne: 3.8 million Add in a ring of about 150km around each CBD and you'd have about 5.5 million in Sydney's catc
60 The Coachman : Look I know you're a DL apologist and it all seems to make sense... BUT. What kind of penetration are you going to have in the Australian market? You
61 BrightCedars : As an outsider, I do believe that it may make sense for QF to operate e.g. SYD-DFW as it will free up better revenue on the O&D SYD-LAX market, given
62 BERflyer : For all those wishing for an DL flight ATL/LAX - SYD keep in mind that Skyteam has no presence and infrastructure down under. If DL would start flying
63 Thestooges : Thanks guys I completely forgot about the fact that Continental and Hawaiian do in fact fly to Australia !!!! HOWEVER, I think I can be forgiven for
64 DLPMMM : They have all been prevented from daily service in the past by the Australian-USA bi-lateral which limited new entrant airlines to a maximum of three
65 Thestooges : Yes, I forgot about the bilateral agreement, I guess that's why Hawaiian only started out with 3 weekly flights. Are they able to increase those flig
66 DLPMMM : I think your logic here is flawed. It is still only one carrier for now where the USA has 3 carriers (although 2 are limited service) but it might ha
67 Thestooges : No I dont think my logic here is flawed but I also agree with the points you are making. What I am getting at is the fact that Americans barely travel
68 WorldTraveler : You are making way too much about alliances and far underestimating the power of actually putting an airplane into the market. There are plenty of ex
69 DeltaL1011man : I am will be willing to bet that when Delta starts SYD in 2010 that it will be ATL-LAX-SYD all the way with a 777. Why you ask? If (at least right no
70 LAXdude1023 : Im onboard with DeltaL1011man on this one. I think this is the best of both worlds. DL can funnel the traffic through ATL and bring a one-stop, direc
71 DeltaL1011man : Also If need be they could run more 757/767s on SLC-LAX to get more of the West. That way the SkyMiles members will be able to fly something like MKE
72 Mir : Bad example. Right now none of the alliances have a presence in Brazil for DL to compete against. That'll change if TAM joins one (likely to be Star
73 DeltaL1011man : LAX-NRT will be a 744 (as it is now with NW) So again you would have 1 route which needs 777 pilots. Thing is If DL has little feed then its best tha
74 AirNZ : Aren't you, rather conveniently as usual, comparing two very different things and putting them out as 'equal'? Brazil is one HELL of a lot closer to
75 Mir : DL will have more AS codeshare feed in SEA than they will in LAX. LAX does have more O&D, but they also have competition with QF, who will not just l
76 DeltaL1011man : Funny. Like? I think we will see LAX will be getting MORE 744 routes not less. Well I don't think UA really has any problems with QF. I don't think V
77 777STL : So what? AA doesn't have a Brazilian partner or alliance member, and AA *owns* Brazil. BFD. AA makes money hand over fist with the QF codeshares and
78 DLPMMM : Why not? UA does! Heck, fully 1/4 of the Australian population is in SYD with another 1/4 in MEL. Cover half of the country's population base with 2
79 Viscount724 : AC manages to survive on their daily 77L nonstop YVR-SYD-YVR without any Star Alliance feed in Australia. AC connects with QF for passengers originat
80 WorldTraveler : which is like saying that BA should funnel all their traffic through JFK so it would reduce their costs there. Yes you COULD get economies of scale o
81 The Coachman : UA interline with DJ here - connections are all handled with DJ. They entered into an agreement some years ago when Ansett collapsed for DJ to connect
82 WorldTraveler : No, AA had JJ as a partner but JJ got tired of being pushed around and bolted. AA did in fact have a partner in Brazil - as they do in most countries
83 Post contains images Mariner : It is nothing like saying that.    There are all manner of infrastructure cost considerations, not all pertaining to the airline, and they have to
84 United1 : They do interline, although UAs relationship with DJ is slightly deeper then that with a codesharing agreement in place. Your right most do have inte
85 Thestooges : Seeing that there is all this talk about DL possibly starting service to Australia which I have heard various rumors about on this forum (especially i
86 777STL : Uh no. They codeshare with DJ and NZ isn't too far away. AA doesn't currently have a partner in Brazil and yet is still gobbling up even more frequen
87 WorldTraveler : the viability of a route doesn't really have any bearing on the airport costs or vice versa. Unless a carrier has gone way overboard on building more
88 QFYMML : If DL's pricing was keen I'm pretty sure they could fill 3 (or 5) flights a week with punters looking for a cheaper alternative in each direction. V A
89 The Coachman : I wasn't sure whether it was a standard interline or whether it was a full-blown codeshare - but now knowing it is a codeshare strengthens my point. I
90 Thestooges : I completely agree with this, in order for Delta to make any service in Australia work they have to be at least comparable to United which presently
91 Thestooges : I completely agree with this, in order for Delta to make any service in Australia work they have to be at least comparable to United which presently
92 United1 : Appearances can be deceiving, and dont forget that UA is rolling out a F/J product that beats any US carriers hard product hands down. While DL is al
93 United1 : Agreed.... NW tried 3 times a week service from LAX to SYD at one point, it didn't last long against QF, UA, and NZs at least daily services.
94 SCCutler : Quoted as appropriate to make the parallel point- LAX is a shithouse airport for connections as well (I prefer SYD to LAX by a considerable measure..
95 Mariner : "Infrastructure" isn't just buildings, it is people as well. Yes, Qantas could contract with American, but it is still a cost. And I would imagine th
96 Mir : Or at least daily. You can't compete with QF's multiple daily departures or UA's one with a 3x per week service, even if it's just initial. You can d
97 Sydscott : Shall we re-state it then. If AA isn't making money hand over fist on their codeshare with Qantas then their management must be the most grossly inco
98 Mariner : That's right. Not a gateway. Doesn't New Zealand count as "Down Under" anymore? mariner
99 LAXintl : Yes currently it does, along with JFK, IAD, DEN, SEA and other cities over the years. Its simply a thru flight number as US carriers often market fli
100 Sydscott : To be honest, I've never heard anyone refer to New Zealand as being "Down Under". I've only ever heard people refer to Australia in that fashion. Unl
101 Ssides : Qantas has long indicated a strong desire to serve the DFW oneworld hub. It was ready to launch this service before 9/11 contributed to the industry
102 Mariner : I am aware of that. And how much was the price of fuel back before 9/11? HInt - oil wasn't even $30 a barrel. mariner
103 Ssides : True, but that doesn't change the fact that the US-Australia market is vastly underserved, and that QF's main profit center is its US flights.
104 Bobnwa : NWA wanted to serve SYD daily, but was prevented from doing so by the Australian government. Australia only has a population of 20 million and furnis
105 Ssides : Have you ever been on a QF or UA flight to OZ? Always full. Because of the restrictions on carriers and flights, there aren't near as many flights as
106 Bobnwa : What percentage of the passengers on any airline between the US and OZ would you say are US originating. I will be interested in your answer. So are
107 LAXdude1023 : Im in agreement with Bob on this one. As much as I want to see QF at DFW (and most of you on here know that DFW is my favorite airport besides LAX),
108 LAXintl : Well Bob, let me jump on this one. Dont have exact stats with me as I'm away from the office, however off the top of my head its a 60/40'ish split in
109 Bobnwa : You remember it correctly. The flights from Japan to OZ were full, but the US origin passengers were in the minority following the Australians and th
110 Alangirvan : I remember NW flying through Japan to Australia - during the early 90s - I had a lot of contact with NW staff in Australia at that time. First NW star
111 Sydscott : They were welcome. It was just that the carrier they were flying on was not complying with its obligation to bring the required number of Americans w
112 Bobnwa : The point being made was, why should it make a difference to Australia regarding what country was the point of origin of the tourists. NWA was bringi
113 Alangirvan : Thinking back to the way we looked at things in 1993 - any route that involved Japan was seen as a gold mine. In those days Japanese tourists paid a l
114 Sydscott : Because that's what the agreement back then said. NWA knew that going in and tried to get around it however the whole point was having more Americans
115 Yellowtail : any chance of a PER-CNS-LAX?
116 Sydscott : I would doubt it. V Australia would more be looking to build profits on MEL, SYD and BNE first and that could take a while! Meanwhile QF and UAL aren
117 Post contains links 102IAHexpress : The ties between Houston and Australia got even stronger today. In a massive deal ConocoPhillips agreed to buy up to an 8 billion dollar stake in Orig
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