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Kingfisher Longhaul Plans - Swaps 5 X A345 For A332  
User currently offlineJerseyFlyer From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 641 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 11779 times:

This from the FT says Kingfisher will retain only 3 of the 10 ordered A345s. Also refers to 20 A350s on order.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/cfd9acbc-723c-11dd-a44a-0000779fd18c.html

"Mr Mallya said that Kingfisher is establishing the base for its widebody long-haul operations at the recently opened Bangalore International airport, which with Hyderabad is leading the drive to modernise Indian airport infrastructure in an effort to catch up with the very fast growth of the Indian aviation market.

The group already has orders placed for five Airbus A380 superjumbos, with deliveries due to start in 2012, and for 20 long-range A350s for delivery from 2013.

It also has a further 20 A330-200s on order from late 2010 in addition to five that have already been delivered.

Mr Mallya said the group had reduced the scale of its initial ambitions with the ultra long-range A340-500s.

Five of 10 aircraft originally ordered had been converted into orders for the smaller A330-200 and it was negotiating to sell two of the remaining five, leaving three to operate the non-stop Bangalore services to the east and west coasts of the US."

50 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4398 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 11693 times:

Reality arrives. The A345 is an absolute beauty, well proportioned, but if the purpose is to make money, the A332 does better. Hope they get the LH operational at all.

User currently offlineAbrelosojos From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 5100 posts, RR: 55
Reply 2, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 11627 times:

Jaja. I read this as IT and LH swapping planes. Good move by Mr. M.

Cheers,
A.



Live, and let live.
User currently offlineVTMAA From India, joined Oct 2006, 109 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 11532 times:

[quote=Abrelosojos,reply=2]
I thought the same as well! Was wondering how VM managed to pull this off.


User currently offlineBrightCedars From Belgium, joined Nov 2004, 1289 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 11432 times:



Quoting JerseyFlyer (Thread starter):
Five of 10 aircraft originally ordered had been converted into orders for the smaller A330-200 and it was negotiating to sell two of the remaining five, leaving three to operate the non-stop Bangalore services to the east and west coasts of the US."

How do they intend on operating daily to both east and west coasts with only 3 planes?
And if not daily, how do they intend to turn a profit? Or could A350s take-over the A340s on these missions as soon as they are available?



I want the European Union flag on airliners.net!
User currently offlineSolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 853 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 11386 times:



Quoting BrightCedars (Reply 4):
How do they intend on operating daily to both east and west coasts with only 3 planes

Isn´t it 10 332 one-stop AMS/LHR to east US and 5 A345 to US west coast...

Am I wrong?

//Micke  Confused



Airbus SAS - Love them both
User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 10971 times:

Title of the thread is a bit confusing, LH normally means Lufthansa.

Quoting JerseyFlyer (Thread starter):
It also has a further 20 A330-200s on order from late 2010 in addition to five that have already been delivered.

Hä? They have two in their fleet and a further 13 on order. Source: Airbus O&D sheet.

Quoting JerseyFlyer (Thread starter):
and for 20 long-range A350s for delivery from 2013.

Five are firm.

Quoting BrightCedars (Reply 4):
How do they intend on operating daily to both east and west coasts with only 3 planes?

It's only five-a-week.

Interesting to see that they are also pushing back the delivery of 32 A32X planes.


User currently offlineMYT332 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 9112 posts, RR: 70
Reply 7, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 10924 times:



Quoting Thorben (Reply 6):
Title of the thread is a bit confusing, LH normally means Lufthansa.

It does indeed. I was somewhat confused!



One Life, Live it.
User currently offlineJerseyFlyer From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 641 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 10901 times:



Quoting Thorben (Reply 6):
It also has a further 20 A330-200s on order from late 2010 in addition to five that have already been delivered.

Hä? They have two in their fleet and a further 13 on order. Source: Airbus O&D sheet.

That makes 15 - plus 5 swapped for A345s = 20?


User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 10845 times:



Quoting JerseyFlyer (Reply 8):
That makes 15 - plus 5 swapped for A345s = 20?

 idea  Yes.

Sad for the 5 A345s, though.


User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4794 posts, RR: 43
Reply 10, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 10738 times:



Quoting Thorben (Reply 6):
Interesting to see that they are also pushing back the delivery of 32 A32X planes.

Yes...cost savings move as they have enough capacity with the purchase of Air Deccan which brought along with few dozen A 320s as well lol. I feel that they will cut down domestic flights and re-direct many A 320s for high density India-Middle East and India-Far East Asia services where the yield is far higher than what is obtained from domestic pax.

Main target market for BLR-JFK will be O&D and transit traffic to HYD, MAA, COK, TRV and CMB. Hopefully KF will make BLR-SIN too connect with BLR-JFK as they can get a few pax in J and Y classes to use them if the connection times at BLR are under 4 hours in each direction.


User currently offlineBoeing747_600 From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 1295 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 10387 times:

Quoting Thorben (Reply 6):
It's only five-a-week.

do you mean both BLR-JFK and BLR-SFO are 5x weekly? Can even this leaner schedule be accomplished w/ 3 planes.

[Edited 2008-08-25 10:31:11]

User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31060 posts, RR: 87
Reply 12, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 10322 times:
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Quoting Boeing747_600 (Reply 11):
do you mean both BLR-JFK and BLR-SFO are 5x weekly? Can even this leaner schedule be accomplished w/ 3 planes.

One plane per city-pair handling the outbound and return with a third available as a spare?


User currently offlineLarshjort From Denmark, joined Dec 2007, 1479 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 10296 times:



Quoting Boeing747_600 (Reply 11):
do you mean both BLR-JFK and BLR-SFO are 5x weekly? Can even this leaner schedule be accomplished w/ 3 planes.

JFK is on the eastcoast  Wink

/Lars



139, 306, 319, 320, 321, 332, 34A, AN2, AT4, AT5, AT7, 733, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 146, AR1, BH2, CN1, CR2, DH1, DH3, DH4,
User currently offlineBoeing747_600 From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 1295 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 10235 times:

Quoting Larshjort (Reply 13):
JFK is on the eastcoast

Thanks for the monumental revelation , but how does it address the quesion I asked i.e. - how do you operate both BLR-SFO and BLR-JFK 5x weekly with only 3 aircraft?! I'm not necesarily suggesting that it is impossible, but I'd like to see something along the lines of a Gantt chart.

[Edited 2008-08-25 10:42:20]

[Edited 2008-08-25 10:42:45]

User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13161 posts, RR: 100
Reply 15, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 10009 times:
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Quoting Burkhard (Reply 1):
Reality arrives. The A345 is an absolute beauty, well proportioned, but if the purpose is to make money, the A332 does better.

 checkmark  Very few runs would justify the A345 for IT. It would be better for them to form a scissor hub somewhere in Asia. PEK? (IIRC there are 14 5th freedom rights to use from China) ICN? (Not yet negotiated), or ??? The A332 is a perfectly fine airframe for that role.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinePurpleBox From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 325 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 9984 times:



Quoting Thorben (Reply 9):
Sad for the 5 A345s, though.

Will these aircraft ever be built?

PurpleBox.



Next Flights:STH-ATH-STN (A3), BHX-INV-BHX(BE), LCY-FRA-BOG(LH), EZE-FRA-LHR(LH)
User currently offlineEA772LR From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2836 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 8397 times:



Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 2):
I read this as IT and LH swapping planes. Good move by Mr. M.

Huh??  Confused LH doesn't have any 332s and LH definitely doesn't need A345s. Can you clerify, perhaps I misunderstood your statement??



We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
User currently offlineBoeing747_600 From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 1295 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 8309 times:



Quoting EA772LR (Reply 17):
Huh?? LH doesn't have any 332s and LH definitely doesn't need A345s.

Just to get everybody on the same page, "LH" in the thread title clearly implies "Long-Haul". The context should have made this quite clear  Smile


User currently offlineLegoguy From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 3313 posts, RR: 39
Reply 19, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 7998 times:

Sad news about the A345's however good news for the A330 numbers. They must be close or past a 1000 airframes now if these are firm. Decrease in A340 orders, increase in A330 orders? Where's WINGS when you need him.


Can you say 'Beer Can' without sounding like a Jamaican saying 'Bacon'?
User currently offlineEA772LR From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2836 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 7358 times:



Quoting Boeing747_600 (Reply 18):

Just to get everybody on the same page, "LH" in the thread title clearly implies "Long-Haul". The context should have made this quite clear Smile

Tis' true....on the contrary Abrelosojos said IT and LH swapping planes. So perhaps Abrelosojos should have been more clear  Smile



We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
User currently offlineAF022 From France, joined Dec 2003, 2162 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 6413 times:

Does Kingfisher have 345s already? Does this mean they will be shedding aircraft and throwing more unwanted 345s on the market?

User currently offlineYVR1968 From Australia, joined Feb 2004, 704 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 5667 times:

I'll take it the planned YVR flights are probably not going to happen anytime soon then.

I guess that leaves Jet Airways and Air India as the potential carriers.


User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3395 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 5604 times:



Quoting PurpleBox (Reply 16):
Will these aircraft ever be built?

I think that the 5 that haven't been cancelled have already been built - I wonder who would but the 2 spares?

Hopefully this means that the other 15 A350s have been firmed (maybe as part of the contract to swap A345s for A332s - we'll let you swap if you finally firm those orders from ages and ages ago?)


User currently offlineFrigatebird From Netherlands, joined Jun 2008, 1622 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 5486 times:



Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 23):
Hopefully this means that the other 15 A350s have been firmed (maybe as part of the contract to swap A345s for A332s - we'll let you swap if you finally firm those orders from ages and ages ago?)

How about the other way around: VM: "We'll firm up those A350's if you'll let us swap the A345 for A332's!"

But I actually wonder why they swapped them for A330's, instead of A350's. They already have 15 A330's on order, so I don't think it is because of availability..  Confused



146,318/19/20/21,AB6,332,343,345,388,722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9,742,74E,744,752,762,763,772,77E,773,77W,AT4/7,ATP,CRK,E90,F50/7
25 Dennys : I am very angry about this sad news concerning the small numbers of A345s ! I do hope , they will ever fly ! and despite of the number of frames made
26 Scbriml : The A330 already passed 1,000 orders in July.
27 Stitch : I am sure they'll get those additional A330-200s before they will get A350s.
28 Post contains links Scouseflyer : A few more details in this article on Flightglobal: http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...to-sell-some-of-its-a340-500s.html Seems that A345s will be
29 Kappel : I believe the non-stop JFK flight is off the table, so we're only talking about BLR-SFO. The JFK flight will be one-stop, perhaps (hopefully) through
30 SeaBosDca : Yep -- as A332s. Remember, the A330 and A340 are built on the same line... This just reflects economic reality. The A345 is only effective at ULH; fo
31 Boeing747_600 : and sadly will remain so even after the 787 enters service, because Boeing shamelessly lied about its range.
32 OldAeroGuy : But the wings are not. An A332 with an A345 wing would be a strange bird indeed.
33 SeaBosDca : Just think of the STOL performance! I just meant the line positions will be used. I'm sure that either 1) A345-specific parts have not yet been built
34 Stitch : Whatever. Specifications change once better data modeling is achieved. Plus a 250t 787-8 could likely claw back 1000-1500nm of range, assuming she's
35 AS739X : Has Kingfisher decided on a start date for SFO? Around here we keep hearing Dec '08. ASSFO
36 BlrBird : Yes as of now that is Kingfisher's plan..JFK is going to be one stop thro' AMS...A dutch forum has slot times posted. That sounds about right from wh
37 Behramjee : interesting...would u mind posting those timings here please...or send me a personal/instant message...thanks yes KF will keep 2 A 345s only and will
38 Seabosdca : There's also the not-so-little matter that Boeing's original figures were based on an 8-abreast 787, while the current figures are based on 9 abreast
39 JerseyFlyer : Which means that if they want to increase frequency on these routes in the future, or add more N America destinations, they will be one-stop - unless
40 Brendows : I found this part interesting: I'm surprised to see that a company like IT has experienced problems financing new aircraft
41 Boeing747_600 : your cavalier sarcasm notwithstanding, the issue of the 787's range will come as a huge setback to airlines hoping to use the aircraft on ULH routes
42 Boeing747_600 : Well, while Boeing finds the dog that ate that part of their homework, I wonder what ULH options Airbus is working on for routes on which the traffic
43 Post contains links LAXDESI : Thread on Kingfisher's launch of BLR-SFO route from Nov.1. http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...eneral_aviation/read.main/4130091/
44 EA772LR : First of, The 787 still has an advertised range between 7650-8200nm which is more than plenty of range to do 98% of all long haul flights. If IT want
45 LAXDESI : IT has A350 on order, and it may turn out to have longer range than 787. A359 currently has a brochure range of 8,100 nm, whereas BLR-SFO is about 7,
46 Ikramerica : So should a 789, or a 788 for that matter. That would give the CASM advantage to the smaller 787. But an A358 with 188 pax should also have 8500nm ra
47 BlrBird : I take my statement back... looks like it's a stale news!
48 SeaBosDca : Airbus has two potential ULH planes in the works: the A359R and (especially if it has Trent XWB-derived power and an A389 MTOW) the A388R. Boeing, fo
49 Stitch : But that is the problem - airlines do not want to sacrifice payload for range, even on ULH operations. But they have to if they want to fly more then
50 Ikramerica : Well, ultimately the 77W and A346 ended up with the "8000nm nominal range" which is what you speak of. The 77E and A343 are close, and the 787 and A3
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