Kaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 11957 posts, RR: 37 Posted (4 years 9 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 13958 times:
Good morning,
A Ryanair 737 with 174 passengers and crew on board had to make an emergency diversion to Limoges, France, after cabin pressure was lost at altitude; the aircraft was en route from Bristol to Girona. 26 passengers needed hospitalisation; the airline will fly another aircraft down to Limoges this morning and has offered coach transportation to those who do not wish to fly.
OyKIE From Norway, joined Jan 2006, 2577 posts, RR: 4 Reply 4, posted (4 years 9 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 13638 times:
Quoting Kaitak (Thread starter): 26 passengers needed hospitalisation; the airline will fly another aircraft down to Limoges this morning and has offered coach transportation to those who do not wish to fly.
Wow! Then the pressure must have been lost quickly. What could have caused the pressure to vanish so quick? Does this happen often during a year? I guess the passengers experienced just how fast a 737-800 can decent. Does 10 000 feet pr minute sounds a bit to much? Kudos to Ryanair for offering alternative transportation for those terrified with this event.
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
EUROBUS From Spain, joined Nov 2004, 313 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (4 years 9 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 13615 times:
Quoting Babybus (Reply 2): I hope this doesn't make the travelling public lose confidence in flying Boeing aircraft or Ryanair. Both are completely safe, in my opinion.
I feel the press is extremely sensitive with anything to do with aircraft at the moment. As always with sensationalism, this will change as soon as there is something more interesting for the media. Say, for example, football
Meanwhile, all the thousands of people who are scared of flying have to read everyday that airplanes are falling out of the sky.
For those unable to link to the BBC audio clip, I can summarise a few of his comments.....
events happened in quick succession... rushing air, temperature change and masks dropped. Despite several tugs no oxygen was forthcoming into the masks. Quite sensibly he commented just how hard do you have to pull to get the things to operate?
The engine note was heard to change and the aircraft began a 'serious decent'
Now, this is interesting... there was no communication, 'absolutely nothing' from the flight or cabin crew during this period. This was not in the first instance, this was for at least 10-20 minutes until 15mins before arrival at Limoges. Nothing. In fact he commented that the flight crew (I assume he included the cabin crew in this description) were not visible at all.
Not surprisingly FR did not have reps on the ground at Limoges, and for up to 6 hours no FR reps gave assistance on the ground. All down to Limoge airport staff apparently.
How professional and reassuring. Not. Now I understand that the flight crew are busy dealing with an emergency, but what is the role of the cabin crew in such instances? I assume sale of scratch cards, phone cards and useless other rubbish was briefly suspended during these events.. maybe they could have found time to attend to their terrified passengers?
Bramble From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 7, posted (4 years 9 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 13471 times:
Just listened to the interview on BBC.
Cabin crew don't come out well in it ,in a case like this they should have been visible as soon as the a/c leveled off. They should ensure all pax have masks on and/or put masks on any unconscious pax.(Those are the procedures in my airline,have no knowledge of FR drills) At that height you have 10-20 seconds to put a masks on before passing out. I can understand the lack of cockpit communicaions with pax as they have procedures to follow,but surely there had to have been comms between cockpit and cabin,which then would allow the cabin crew to tell the pax something.
However he makes a bit of a sensationalist claim that "they descented quicker as the engineer may have known that there was no oxygen being supplied by the drop down masks" He said that there did not seems to be any oxygen flowing from the masks. Expect to see that in the papers tomorrow! The fact he was conscious should have told him there was oxygen flowing (albeit very slowly) but if the cabin crew were going through the cabin after reaching 8000ft they could have reassured the pax that there was in fact oxygen flowing.
OA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 24929 posts, RR: 60 Reply 8, posted (4 years 9 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 13442 times:
Quoting Avion660 (Reply 6): This was not in the first instance, this was for at least 10-20 minutes until 15mins before arrival at Limoges. Nothing. In fact he commented that the flight crew (I assume he included the cabin crew in this description) were not visible at all.
That is quite worrying if true , but not really a surprise .
OLYMPIC AIR - ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΚΗ "Η ΕΛΛΑΔΑ ΨΗΛΑ" "GREECE FLYING HIGH"
Caspritz78 From Germany, joined Aug 2007, 518 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (4 years 9 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 13416 times:
Why do I have the feeling that all articles about aviation incidents are just full of nonsense. Almost every time you can read that the aircraft plunged several thousands feet and the cause is unknown. It makes it sound as aircrafts just fall out of the skies form time to time because the laws of physics stop working.
Kris From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 51 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (4 years 9 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 13362 times:
Quoting Bramble (Reply 7): At that height you have 10-20 seconds to put a masks on before passing out.
You should never pass out due to a decompression in a commercial aircraft without oxygen. These aircraft are designed so that you are never exposed to an altitude greater than 25,000 equivalent altitude for longer than 2 minutes after a decompression. At that altitude your useful consciousness is around 2 minutes, but you will be well into a descent by then. In theory it's possible to be perfectly fine without using oxygen at all in this situation (I know - I've done it), but I can understand people's concerns when the 'bang' occurs and the oxygen masks drop!
Ushermittwoch From Germany, joined Jan 2004, 2889 posts, RR: 18 Reply 11, posted (4 years 9 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 13347 times:
Quoting Bramble (Reply 7): The fact he was conscious should have told him there was oxygen flowing (albeit very slowly) but if the cabin crew were going through the cabin after reaching 8000ft they could have reassured the pax that there was in fact oxygen flowing.
Well they do tell you prior to takeoff. That's what happens when people don't listen to the safety instructions... I am sure the F/As also were "a bit" stressed at that moment, most of them are pretty unexperienced.
I've never been unhappy to fly Ryanair on very short flights, their seat pitch, as with most UK cheapies and all UK holiday carriers is such that the blood supply below the passenger's knees is cut off after 30-minutes. Generally they do operate fairly new aircraft but in-line with all other cheapies and UK charter carriers they have removed any and all elements of customer service, they charge for anything they can get away with. A simple calculation to compare the costs of their "low-cost" flights against the "full service" carriers often shows them in very poor light so far as value for money goes if you for example want to eat, drink, check baggage or be reasonably close to the city you have paid to get to. In the example of this diverted aircraft, Ryanair market the route as "Barcelona/Girona" - take a look at Google Earth and you will note that Girona is a city in itself and around 60-miles north. I have always found their cabin staff to be more interested in selling Ryanair's wares and worrying about their social life than actually being aware that the self-loading cargo is their reason d'etre. I would have little or no faith in them in this sort of crisis.
Danny From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3482 posts, RR: 2 Reply 13, posted (4 years 9 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 13135 times:
Quoting CasualObserver (Reply 12): I've never been unhappy to fly Ryanair on very short flights, their seat pitch, as with most UK cheapies and all UK holiday carriers is such that the blood supply below the passenger's knees is cut off after 30-minutes.
Let's stop this nonsense. Ryanair offers 30 inches of legroom versus 29 on some other carriers. Legal minimum is 28.
Quoting CasualObserver (Reply 12): Ryanair market the route as "Barcelona/Girona" - take a look at Google Earth and you will note that Girona is a city in itself and around 60-miles north
It's actually to the East and it's very nice city itself. Travel time to Barcelona is not higher that from some of the "main" airports to their city centers.
Bramble From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 14, posted (4 years 9 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 13071 times:
Quoting Kris (Reply 10): You should never pass out due to a decompression in a commercial aircraft without oxygen. These aircraft are designed so that you are never exposed to an altitude greater than 25,000 equivalent altitude for longer than 2 minutes after a decompression. At that altitude your useful consciousness is around 2 minutes, but you will be well into a descent by then. In theory it's possible to be perfectly fine without using oxygen at all in this situation (I know - I've done it), but I can understand people's concerns when the 'bang' occurs and the oxygen masks drop!
I bow to your superior medical knowledge here. I was stating something that I have been told as part of my decompression drill training. 10-20 seconds to get on O2,less if you are exerting yourself.
I am interested in how the aircraft are designed to prevent altitude exposure for longer than 2 minutes,are you refering to the immediate descent to 8000ft?
Quoting Danny (Reply 13): Let's stop this nonsense. Ryanair offers 30 inches of legroom versus 29 on some other carriers. Legal minimum is 28.
It's actually to the East and it's very nice city itself. Travel time to Barcelona is not higher that from some of the "main" airports to their city centers.
Both valid points and keeping the thread from being a Ryanair bashing one.
LTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 12337 posts, RR: 12 Reply 15, posted (4 years 9 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 12965 times:
Per the linked article (BBC) and a syndicated article I saw on MSNBC.com, the pilot/co-pilot followed the right and professional procedures to the letter. The a/c depressurized, the pax masks deployed, and the a/c very quickly and correctly dropped to a safe altitude and landed at a suitable airport.
In the BBC article, it quotes O'Leary as saying he has been in a depressurization situation in a flight and that pax expect a 'surge' of O2, not the reality of a more modest flow. Of course, people will be very frightened in such a situation and when some may have recalled the Helios decompression tragedy or too many bad movies as well as the proper suddenness and severity of the procedures in decompression. That Ryanair provided a back up a/c in not unreasonable hours to an airport late in the day, that most of the pax continued on the relief flight and provided bus service for those who didn't want to continue on a flight sounds like they were not unreasonable as some here bash Ryanair for.
As to the behavior of the cabin crew, that should and will be examined by French and UK Airline safety authorities as part of any incident to see if they, along with all others followed correct procedures or not.
The bigger issue is why this a/c decompressed, if it is a problem with newer 737's that needs to be corrected, if it was a component failure, a procedural flaw, a mx issue and so on.
Christopherwoo From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 151 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (4 years 9 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 12930 times:
Its quite interesting nothing was said for a while untill they had leveled out. While this is understandable. Maybe it would be wise incorporating something into the plane like the Airbus family has. Upon a decompression there is an automated message that gets played automatically letting passengers know that they are descending to a lower alittute and to remain calm. I didnt realise the 737 didnt have this.
BuyantUkhaa From Mongolia, joined May 2004, 2781 posts, RR: 3 Reply 17, posted (4 years 9 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 12915 times:
Quoting Christopherwoo (Reply 16): Upon a decompression there is an automated message that gets played automatically letting passengers know that they are descending to a lower alittute and to remain calm. I didnt realise the 737 didnt have this.
Nice usefull addition in my opinion.
Even the MD-80 series have this. I found out eleven years ago, on an SR flight, when this tape started to play spontaneously: "decompression, decompression! Use the yellow oxygen masks! Decompression!" Except there was none. Then the captain said on the PA (in German only!) that the tape had screwed up and we were still happily on our way to ZRH.
Danny From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3482 posts, RR: 2 Reply 18, posted (4 years 9 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 12863 times:
Quoting Christopherwoo (Reply 16): Its quite interesting nothing was said for a while untill they had leveled out
That is standard procedure. The crew is trained to grab their own mask and stay in their seat until safe altitude is reached. Only then they can make announcements.
Kris From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 51 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (4 years 9 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 12843 times:
Quoting Bramble (Reply 14): 10-20 seconds to get on O2,less if you are exerting yourself.
That would be correct if you were exposed to 40,000ft outright, immediately - which in a commercial aircraft you never should be. Regulations state that "The airplane must be designed so that occupants will not be exposed to a cabin pressure altitude that exceeds the following after decompression from any failure condition not shown to be extremely improbable:
(i) Twenty-five thousand (25,000) feet for more than 2 minutes; or
(ii) Forty thousand (40,000) feet for any duration."
Which leads me on to
Quote: I am interested in how the aircraft are designed to prevent altitude exposure for longer than 2 minutes,are you refering to the immediate descent to 8000ft?
Unless you're really unlucky and lose half of your aircraft, it will maintain some pressurisation in the event of a decompression. You could lose a whole window at 36,000ft, and by closing the outflow valves you could probably maintain a cabin altitude of 25,000ft (due to the large amount of air that has to get through a small hole), which is enough to keep you awake and alert for around 2 minutes without the rapid descent.
Edit: someone with superior knowledge of aircraft pressurisation systems will come on and correct me no doubt - then I'll bow to them!
Cwldude From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 691 posts, RR: 1 Reply 21, posted (4 years 9 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 12831 times:
Quite alarming to think that some of these facts asre potentially true. I hope this gets investigated thoroughly! The crew have a LOT to answer for, but it's nothing more than I'd expect from Ryanair Crew!
Thomson Airways - The UKs premier charter airline // now flown : BY -AA -AJ -AE -AT; OO -AX -AU -RA -BG; BRIG; OBYD
Danny From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3482 posts, RR: 2 Reply 22, posted (4 years 9 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 12793 times:
Quoting Cwldude (Reply 21): Quite alarming to think that some of these facts asre potentially true. I hope this gets investigated thoroughly! The crew have a LOT to answer for, but it's nothing more than I'd expect from Ryanair Crew!
Both the pilots and the crew properly followed emergency procedure. If the pax listened to the safety briefing before they flight they would have known what to do.
BAC111 From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 110 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (4 years 9 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 12698 times:
Love the opening paragraph from the AFP/Yahoo! article:
LIMOGES, France (AFP) - Passengers on a Ryanair flight said Tuesday they thought they "were going to die" when the low-cost jet plunged 8,000 metres (26,400 feet) after a sudden loss of cabin pressure over France.
The "low-cost jet"? I know we at a.net harp plenty on journalists and their reporting of aviation incidents, but I couldn't resist posting this one. I assume Boeing sold that 737 for roughly the same price as other comparable versions and/or Ryanair acquired it used for fair market value. It's either very ignorant or just jaded reporting. Lame either way.
ACEregular From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2003, 674 posts, RR: 1 Reply 24, posted (4 years 9 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 12508 times:
We are trained to immediately, wherever we are, sit down, grab the nearest spare o2 mask (there are four to each three seats on the 73G) and ensure that those nearby have thier masks on and render assistance in the nearby area. We dont start running up and down the cabin elling commands or exerting ourselves. The flight deck have thier own drills which does not include time to let passengers know whats happening, they just go into drill mode and get it down as quick as they can, often reported in these instances as a death dive, and people fearing the plane is out of control. Once we have levelled off the cabin crew will then monkey swing to the nearest portable set of o2 and then can render assistance to the passengers and go to the fligthdeck to recieve further info. Bear in mind the flightdeck crew are under a lot of pressure to respond urgently to the situation and also deal with ATC and make arrangements for a diversion, so a rapid response from them is not possible. Bear in mind the cabin crew may well have been in the galley during this decompression, they would have immediately taken up the crew seat and the drop down o2 above it, meaning they were out of sight, but more than likely working to company sop. Passenger perception may be slightly different but I think everyone did thier job in this case. Also am sure the o2 would have flowed as soon as it was pulled to the face, though sometimes I think passengers must expect it to be a massive flow of o2, its not! its just enough . Journos will have a field day with it, but from my view, it all went to plan.
25 BMED: In sticking up for ryanair most airlines don't have reps at their airports as it is dealt with by th ground handling agent so more than likely the Li
26 Contrails: I was on an AA MD-80 that depressurized a couple of years ago. Maybe our situation was more gradual, but nobody on our plane had to be hospitalized.
28 Speedbirdie: Whoa... Pretty Unexperienced? What do you base that on exactly? Please tell us Mr Graduate Student what you mean by this? I find it extremely offensi
29 Francoflier: "Ladies and gentlemen, we are now experiencing a cabin depressurization. Oxygen masks have dropped in front of you. I you wish to start breathing oxy
30 Kris: I took that to mean not used to experiencing rapid decompression at 36,000ft very often - not in the general sense. Probably just a turn of phrase?[E
31 Speedbirdie: No one is experienced to having a rapid decompression at any time. I have been flying for years and am not used to it, some of my colleagues who have
32 Mortkork: Remember, sensational journalism sales newspapers. It sounds to me everything went as planned and worked as advertised with the exception of what caus
33 JoeCanuck: So, the plane landed safely, nobody died, Ryanair gets the p*ss taken out of it again. Isn't anyone curious as to why they suffered the decompression.
34 Tavong: Intersting if there is a procedure to be "Properly Terrified" 1-Acknwoledge the situation. 2-Verify if there is an imminent risk to your like 3-Put y
35 Jmy007: Oy, Msnbc made it sound like the jet just dropped out of the sky, with this provocative headline. Of couse that's not that case at all, but so sensati
36 Kaitak: Different agendas, unfortunately; if the story isn't sensational enough, it has to be "jazzed up". Niceties like the fact that the aircraft was alway
37 Dangould2000: These sort of comments P**S me off, how this and that happened just because it's Ryanair as though we're something completely different from every ot
38 Bochora: I find that the fact that the pilot made no announcement immediately! The main thing to reassure is that the pilot is still alive!!
39 Dangould2000: i think the pilot would want to make sure that the pax would still be alive by diving, instead of making an announcement that wouldn't be heard over
40 Ushermittwoch: Well most of the F/As I have seen on FR are in their EARLY 20s which means that they CANNOT have amassed a whole lot of job EXPERIENCE, hence they ar
41 Larshjort: I would be worried if the pilot had time to inform the passengers right after the incident occurred. And I'm quite sure the pilot knows if he is aliv
42 Mortkork: If the engines roll back and you're not in any type of roll, then rest assured the pilot is still alive. The main thing is to FLY THE AIRPLANE and ge
43 CasualObserver: Hey Danny! - I am guessing you're in the marketing department at Ryanair. Clearly you're not much of 6ft tall as anything less than 31/32 inches is s
44 Pe@rson: Come on Casual: all of that is irrelevant to the topic in hand.[Edited 2008-08-26 13:07:37]
45 OA260: If we are talking about BCN to downtown and Girona/Reus to downtown there is a huge difference. Having done both quite frequently myself.
46 Sbworcs: They were interviewing JL on Radio 4 this morning and were trying to blame the pilots for not immediately issuing annoucements to the passengers. JL j
47 Ncfc99: I was terrified once, but I didn't do it properly according to your list. Aviate, navigate, communicate is the order a pilot work to. I assume commun
48 JoeCanuck: I've flown FR a couple of times. I'm over 6 feet and I didn't find the experience much different than any other 737/320 flight I've had. Legroom was f
49 Prebennorholm: F/A job experience, that's something which can be useful when trying to calm down unruly pax. F/As don't have experience in cabin decompression, they
50 MCO2BRS: I came across this article this afternoon, before I heard about the actual incident it referenced. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7582087.stm Alth
51 Bx737: Working for the same airline as Bramble in the same job, it seems to me that the crew did what they were supposed to do. It should be borne in mind th
52 JoeCanuck: Considering the noise and confusion which must occur during a decompression/rapid descent, comforting words would not even be heard much less understo
53 Pihero: AS few thoughts on this incident : The level of knowledge of the depressurisation phenomenon on this airline site is quite astonishing and in all appe
55 ZKEOJ: No, they don't tell you that! They say that the little bags might not inflate, but there will still be an oxygen flow. They never tell you that there
56 Ukair: I find your post quite offensive, firstly, you might get a seat for a quid but because of add ons like taxes and such it will be much higher, secondl
57 Pihero: 1/- In all probability, they are in the cabin in the middle of the passengers, very far from the PA set. 2/- Making a PA with their mask on is an imp
58 Tdscanuck: Nor should there be...the priority is keep the plane and passengers safe, not keep them happy. How could the cabin crew be invisible? Ryanair doesn't
59 Kris: That'll be me then... My figures were taken directly from U.S. Federal Aviation Regulations Section 25.841: Pressurized Cabins. I said nothing about
60 Trent900: Anyway, what an interesting read this thread is. Anyone know what aircraft it was? D.
61 TristarSteve: There was an incident with a B737 descending to a London airport a couple of years ago. I will try and find the report. Their was a decompression, I
62 ACEregular: Wasnt that the Sabre Airways B737-204 G-SBEB operated by Peach Air? I believe it was around 96-98. Also the Senior Crew Member became incapicitated i
63 Danny: Some of the Irish morning newspapers have drama story on their first page today titled "RYANAIR TERROR at 30 thousand feet".
64 Kris: Unfortunately the headline "Ryanair jet safely lands following a decompression and a bit of a worrying time for the passengers" wouldn't sell newspap
65 Dano1977: Having never suffered a decompression, But would i be right in saying, that the oxygen flow in masks is low, because basically you are getting a pure
66 Toulouse: Danny don't mean to be disrespectful, but check your maps. Gerona (or Girona in Catalan) is north of Barcelona... if it was east, it would be an isla
67 N1786b: I distinctly remember them saying this while flying in the US. Have a look at this: Delta http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgpzUo_kbFY At 2:34 into the
68 Kris: Pihero - just out of interest, in the decompression you experienced, what was the cabin differential when you lost pressure (although you probably had
69 TristarSteve: Yes thank you, here it is http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources/dft_avsafety_pdf_501410.pdf When the commander realised that there was a problem with
70 Kris: " target=_blank>http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources...0.pdf A very informative read, thanks! It's possible that by the time the commander attempted
71 GlobeEx: I remember passengers off the Qantas 744 accident claiming that the oxigen masks weren't working either. GlobeEx
72 ZKEOJ: Every single safety briefing I recall does mention that the bag might not inflate. In this case I could really say "if people would pay attention to
73 Toulouse: I understand you, but this has not been my case, and the videos of safety demonstrations provided courtesy of N1786B in reply no. 67 shows that out o
74 Viscount724: The design of the seat also affects the effective leg/kneeroom. Some 30 in. pitch seats are roomier than other 32 in. seats. Seat pitch by itself is
75 Pihero: Hello, Kris ! As I described earlier, there are initial steps in assessing the depressurisation : 1/- The pressurisation problem would be seen on the
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