Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
WN Ending BHM-PHX; BNA-OAK/SEA  
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33195 posts, RR: 71
Posted (6 years 3 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4829 times:

When Southwest's January 11th schedule cuts take effect, already discussed in another thread, three routes will be discontinued:

Birmingham-Phoenix

Nashville-Oakland
Nashville-Seattle


Cutting BNA-OAK/SEA seems especially significant because Nashville acted as the mid-point in allowing Seattle/Oakland customers easier access to Florida. Looks like they will now have to go via Chicago Midway and Kansas City.


a.
53 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineOsubuckeyes From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 805 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 3 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4809 times:

I hate that they are cutting nonstop flights from PHX and replacing them with more stops through DEN MDW ABQ etc... Pretty soon it will just be LAS, West Coast and MDW. It will be horrible having to stop in MDW everytime I fly East of the Mississippi.

User currently offlineDaCubbyBearBar From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 76 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 3 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4705 times:

PDX-MDW will go down to 1 from 3 and PIT has lost one MDW as well.


Go Cubs Go Hey Chicago whaddya say the Cubs are gonna win today
User currently offlineAWACSooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1950 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (6 years 3 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4546 times:

For all the cuts they're making, either they're:
1. Retiring some of their older aircraft.
2. Holding out for an major airline's collapse and holding the planes formerly used on these routes to fill in the gaping holes left by the void.
3. About to announce some serious expansion from another location.


User currently offlineIpodguy7 From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 3 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4409 times:

Wow that is a major blow to BNA! Everytime ive traveled those two routes, theyve always been full! Im still hoping that maybe maybe UA would step up and offer SFO-BNA! So sad to see OAK and SEA go!  mad   no 


AA/DL/NW/CO/UA/US/AC/FI/EI/BD/BA/AF/AZ/DY/SK/QF/JQ
User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3118 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (6 years 3 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 4328 times:

Even though I don't like WN, I was willing to take the BNA-SEA route because of its good flight times and easy nonstop routing. Looks like it's back to the other guys.

User currently offlineImapilotaz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (6 years 3 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 4270 times:



Quoting Osubuckeyes (Reply 1):
hate that they are cutting nonstop flights from PHX and replacing them with more stops through DEN MDW ABQ etc... Pretty soon it will just be LAS, West Coast and MDW. It will be horrible having to stop in MDW everytime I fly East of the Mississippi.

You are freaking kidding me right? WN has almost 200 daily departures in PHX, and losing 1x daily flight to BHM is a big deal? Hell Ive lived in PHX off and on for 13 years and have been actively in airline management for 5 years and I had no idea they flew nonstop to BHM.


User currently offlineOcracoke From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 690 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (6 years 3 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 4258 times:



Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 3):
For all the cuts they're making, either they're:
1. Retiring some of their older aircraft.
2. Holding out for an major airline's collapse and holding the planes formerly used on these routes to fill in the gaping holes left by the void.
3. About to announce some serious expansion from another location.

4. Actually losing money on these routes and decided to cut them out of the system?


User currently offlineImapilotaz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (6 years 3 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 4217 times:



Quoting Ocracoke (Reply 7):
4. Actually losing money on these routes and decided to cut them out of the system?

That's all it is. January & February are the 2 worst months no matter where you fly to. In this day and age, 70%+ of expenses are variable, so it makes much more sense to just park a plane for a few hours than to fly it to keep up utilization. Keep in mind that SWA has the lowest LF in the industry and therefore likely has a significant number of sub-par flights early in the morning or late in the evening.


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17786 posts, RR: 46
Reply 9, posted (6 years 3 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 4195 times:

Quoting Imapilotaz (Reply 8):
Keep in mind that SWA has the lowest LF in the industry and therefore likely has a significant number of sub-par flights early in the morning or late in the evening.

Where exactly does WN make money on flying passengers?

Quoting DaCubbyBearBar (Reply 2):
PDX-MDW will go down to 1 from 3 and PIT has lost one MDW as well.

I keep hearing rumors that MDW does not do well for WN. Incidentally the whole airline is up in seats ever so slightly through about November, and then down significantly from DEC onward. LAS and LAX fit this same pattern while BNA, MDW, OAK, BWI, and PHX are down across the board from SEP on. No prizes for guessing where all that capacity is reappearing Smile.

[Edited 2008-08-26 09:11:28]


E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6187 posts, RR: 24
Reply 10, posted (6 years 3 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 4097 times:

This just adds to the continuing drops of long-haul "per se" flights by WN. No trans-con PHL services, etc. This gets WN back to what made the money in the first place. Point to point and multiple stops at low fares. It makes sense to me. And who knows, as AWAC said they planes could be going somewhere else. DEN?

ASSFO



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2940 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (6 years 3 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 4065 times:



Quoting DaCubbyBearBar (Reply 2):
PDX-MDW will go down to 1 from 3

The Portland-Chicago market has taken some hits this year. AA cutting (seasonally?) and now WN's reduction.


User currently offlineLexy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2515 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (6 years 3 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3978 times:



Quoting Ipodguy7 (Reply 4):
Wow that is a major blow to BNA! Everytime ive traveled those two routes, theyve always been full! Im still hoping that maybe maybe UA would step up and offer SFO-BNA! So sad to see OAK and SEA go!

WN is a stupid fool for cutting the SEA flight. Stupid fool!

I had always heard it was a well performing flight. I may be wrong, but that is what I had always heard. What a crock. Welcome Alaska Airlines and United Airlines, or even better, Virgin America to the mix here hopefully. LOL!!!!  stirthepot 



Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23224 posts, RR: 20
Reply 13, posted (6 years 3 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3955 times:



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 9):
Where exactly does WN make money on flying passengers?

Umm... where don't they?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17786 posts, RR: 46
Reply 14, posted (6 years 3 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 3811 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 13):
Umm... where don't they?

Pretty much the majority of flights not operating within in their finance department it appears.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineImapilotaz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (6 years 3 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 3798 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 13):
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 9):
Where exactly does WN make money on flying passengers?

Umm... where don't they?

I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you  Smile


User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6428 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (6 years 3 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 3735 times:



Quoting DaCubbyBearBar (Reply 2):
PDX-MDW will go down to 1 from 3 and PIT has lost one MDW as well.

Kind of suprised, I thought WN didn't open and/or operate a route unless they could offer at least 3x daily on it...I thought that was a key part of Herb's operating philosophy  Smile I guess it wasn't geared for oil at $100+ a barrel...



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineImapilotaz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (6 years 3 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3709 times:



Quoting KELPkid (Reply 16):
Kind of suprised, I thought WN didn't open and/or operate a route unless they could offer at least 3x daily on it...I thought that was a key part of Herb's operating philosophy I guess it wasn't geared for oil at $100+ a barrel...

Not necessarily. SWA really only requires a market (being a station) to have more than 10 departures in a day (CRP doesnt count) and in reality prefer 15+ for expense reasons. SWA has numerous markets with just 1 nonstop roundtrip, especially markets of 1250 miles or more. These are just supplemented by having 2-10 onestop/connecting options as well.


User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6808 posts, RR: 32
Reply 18, posted (6 years 3 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3661 times:



Quoting KELPkid (Reply 16):
I thought WN didn't open and/or operate a route unless they could offer at least 3x daily on it

That's probably true for short-haul flights, where they have to compete with people simply choosing to drive instead. But for a route like PDX-MDW, driving isn't competitive with respect to travel time, and they can certainly offer one-stop or connecting service via places like SLC and DEN.

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
Cutting BNA-OAK/SEA seems especially significant because Nashville acted as the mid-point in allowing Seattle/Oakland customers easier access to Florida. Looks like they will now have to go via Chicago Midway and Kansas City.

...as well as Denver, Phoenix, and Las Vegas. But it wouldn't surprise me if they weren't all that interested in selling very cheap seats to Florida from the West Coast right now.

What I think all three of these flights had in common was that they were fairly thin longer-haul flying that relied on connections to work. PVD used to have two daily non-stops to PHX but one was cut recently -- another longer-haul flight with plenty of connections.


User currently offlineSWABrian From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 299 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (6 years 3 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3661 times:

Bill Owen did a blog post about the new schedule on our blog
http://www.blogsouthwest.com/blog/whoopsjanuarys-hereand-i-forgot-blog

Brian


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23224 posts, RR: 20
Reply 20, posted (6 years 3 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 3591 times:



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 14):

Pretty much the majority of flights not operating within in their finance department it appears.

So WN has no non-fuel CASM advantage or RASM advantage? I suggest you recheck the numbers...



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineFlyboy7974 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 1540 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (6 years 3 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 3553 times:

Still interesting that the BNA cuts have avoided the ONT nonstop and that certain flight has made it for so long.

User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23224 posts, RR: 20
Reply 22, posted (6 years 3 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 3533 times:



Quoting Flyboy7974 (Reply 21):
Still interesting that the BNA cuts have avoided the ONT nonstop and that certain flight has made it for so long.

Is there a reason related to the music industry to keep BNA-ONT around? I don't know Southern California well enough to know.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 44
Reply 23, posted (6 years 3 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 3495 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 20):
So WN has no non-fuel CASM advantage or RASM advantage? I suggest you recheck the numbers...

WN certainly does have a stage-length adjusted ex-fuel CASM advantage, at 4.97 cents, compared with 5.15 cents for the LCC carriers as a group, and a more substantial 10.85 cents for the network carriers as a group.

WN certainly does *not* have a stage-length adjusted RASM advantage, at 6.97 cents, compared with 7.21 cents for the LCC carriers as a group, and a more substantial 11.02 cents for the network carriers as a group.



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23224 posts, RR: 20
Reply 24, posted (6 years 3 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 3482 times:



Quoting A330323X (Reply 23):
WN certainly does *not* have a stage-length adjusted RASM advantage, at 6.97 cents, compared with 7.21 cents for the LCC carriers as a group, and a more substantial 11.02 cents for the network carriers as a group.

Do you happen to have the number for Y-only LCCs? I suspect WN is still somewhat lower, but I'd be curious to see the number.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
25 A330323X : The stage-length adjusted RASM numbers I have for 2007 for the LCCs are as follows: WN 6.97 cents FL 7.69 cents F9 8.13 cents B6 8.33 cents
26 Post contains links Jalapeno : I'm all about cutting the media some slack, but couldn't they have found a WN stock photo instead of an MD-80 whose colors aren't even close???!? http
27 LoneStarMike : Heck, they didn't even get Southwest's stock symbol right. LoneStarMike
28 MaverickM11 : Nope, just wondering what the strongest segment of WN's network is...seeing as lately fuel hedges prop up most, if not all, of it depending on the qu
29 Cubsrule : What makes you say that fuel hedges prop up the flying?
30 Post contains links Mariner : Perhaps this: http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...8dnbussouthwestearns.87a53152.html "As an airline, Southwest Airlines Co. is losing money. As an
31 Cubsrule : Maybe my problem is that I don't understand why fuel hedges are so bad. Airlines need fuel. It's a cost. Why not contract to get that fuel at a certa
32 DTWAGENT : The Blog stated that they are not scheduling any flights (as many as possible) to depart before 7:00am and after 8:00pm. When I'm on vacation I like t
33 Lexy : You know, not everything in Nashville is related to the music industry. I just find it strangely ODD how many peopole on this site think that is the
34 Mariner : They're not bad. They're very, very good. Southwest didn't start the hedges because they knew that oil was going to go to the moon - they did it to (
35 Cubsrule : Why does BNA have so much more west coast service than CMH? I think the big two differences are Nissan (a relatively recent development) and the musi
36 MAH4546 : Agreed. Most city's Nashville's size this side of the Mississippi would beg for California service. Nashville has Ontario and LAX, and you can thank
37 Cubsrule : Right, in Smyrna-- right near BNA-- and in Decherd-- about halfway between BNA and CHA. I have to believe, though, that the headquarters move has led
38 MaverickM11 : There's nothing wrong with them, but if they ever go away, or go south real fast, it would be a good thing to fall back on, you know, flying passenge
39 Cubsrule : I don't understand how you can divorce the two. It takes fuel to fly passengers, doesn't it? I realize I sound sort of dense, but I genuinely don't u
40 SANFan : Sorry to be a bit late with this question but I just got on line today for the first time: why do we have this second (duplicate) thread going on this
41 MAH4546 : I doubt it, personally. Factories generate far more traffic than design studios. Auto factories, in general, generate a huge amount of traffic to car
42 Cubsrule : Definitely, though that doesn't really affect traffic to the west coast (just for the sake of completeness, I'll point out that it is possible to fly
43 Swatpamike : Hello All I believe that flight goes LAS-PHX-BHM-JAX-FLL and is almost always full, that why. Cheers swatpamike or swabhmmike
44 ThreeIfByAir : Interesting point on the Florida connections from SEA. Without delving deep into the schedules, however, it looks like every Florida city retains a t
45 EXAAUADL : blame fuel. UA WONT begin SFO-BNA, especially with the 733/735 retirements. How long did WN fly BNA-SEA. Seems like 10 years or more?
46 Lexy : I can tell you for a fact, nobody is left in Cali excelt for SOME design. Everyone else is in Nashville. My mother in law is an 18 year managing vete
47 MAH4546 : Absolutely no design teams moved to Nashville. Design is all in California - too much talent there, and they aren't moving to Tennessee. The rest did
48 Post contains images Lexy : Actually Mark, you are partially wrong. They have a new design department in Detroit as well. Not all the talent in all the world is in freakin' Calif
49 Cubsrule : My apologies, Mark. You're right. My friend who does legal work for Nissan had been going to L.A. to meet with the design folks-- I wrongly assumed h
50 MAH4546 : Distaste for Nashville? Please. Facts are facts, and that's all I've stated. Just because you think facts relate to a "distaste for Nashville" is you
51 Lexy : And over the next five years, that 60% will shift to Michigan to be closer to HQ. Now, would you like to continue this? California isn't all its crac
52 Cubsrule : I hope I at least didn't say anything different. Heck, I got married in Nashville.
53 MAH4546 : You are creating a whole issue out of nothing because you are so uber-sensitivite about the slightest thing said about Nashville. Nashville has alway
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
WN Announces PHX-MHT, More SLC-PHX And LAS-SEA/RDU posted Thu Apr 26 2007 18:10:56 by Iowaman
WN BNA-OAK Diverts To DEN posted Sat Dec 31 2005 23:26:13 by QQflyboy
WN Ending MAF-ELP? posted Mon Aug 13 2007 19:19:57 by Ssides
WN To Cut BWI-LAX/OAK, PHL-LAX/OAK? posted Wed Jun 20 2007 23:47:44 by A330323X
WN/TZ BHM To HNL posted Fri Feb 9 2007 02:09:15 by ChiGB1973
What A/c Would WN Use TPA-PHX Route? posted Sun May 21 2006 20:43:32 by AeroMaxx
WN 2356 BUF-PHX Equipment posted Tue May 7 2002 14:43:05 by LHMark
Is Taca Ending SAL-OAK? posted Fri Aug 1 2008 00:17:33 by Malaysia
UA Ending IAD-BHM/LIT/SPI posted Mon Jun 16 2008 18:01:27 by MAH4546
AS Ending SNA-OAK posted Thu Feb 7 2008 14:28:16 by Avi8tir