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Old Airline Hubs...OZ/STL, PE/EWR, ML/MDW  
User currently offlineN702ML From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (6 years 1 month 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4458 times:

Howdy y'all.....

For anyone interested, some new information has been added to departedflights.com

There are now daily departure statistics for the following defunct airline hubs:

Midway Airlines Chicago hub from 1979-1991
Ozark Air Lines Saint Louis hub from 1980-1986
People Express Newark hub from 1982-1986

I think the one that suprised me most was People Express. I knew they grew fast, but I had NO idea how fast! Every couple of months MULTIPLE new cities seemed to be added!

Anyway...hope y'all enjoy and hope this provokes some interesting discussion.

41 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineN702ML From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (6 years 1 month 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4380 times:

by the way...the link is www.departedflights.com/airlinehubs.html

User currently offlineItalianFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1099 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (6 years 1 month 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4166 times:

WOW, great job man! I think you are on your way to becoming the R.E.G. Davies of the next generation  Big grin

User currently onlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16878 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (6 years 1 month 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4150 times:

21 daily nonstops from EWR to BOS, I remember when CO was flying 18-22 nonstop MD-80s between EWR and BOS in the late 1990s. Also note PeoplExpress flew into YMX instead of YUL for Montreal.

I personally flew PeoplExpress on the following routes:

EWR-
Saint Petersburg, Fort Lauderdale, Washington Dulles, Washington National.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineN702ML From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (6 years 1 month 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4091 times:



Quoting ItalianFlyer (Reply 2):
I think you are on your way to becoming the R.E.G. Davies of the next generation

WHOA! Now THERE'S a compliment for an airline geek if I've ever heard one! Thanks!  Wink


User currently offlineElBandGeek From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 757 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 1 month 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4066 times:

That site would make me very happy if it added TZ's MDW hub.

they'll always hold a spcial place in my heart


User currently offlineTN757Flyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (6 years 1 month 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4051 times:

Always great work on your site, the best nostalgia site for the industry by far, kudos!

Quoting N702ML (Thread starter):
I think the one that suprised me most was People Express. I knew they grew fast, but I had NO idea how fast! Every couple of months MULTIPLE new cities seemed to be added!

Yeah, which helps explain their demise. They were doomed even before Lorenzo and Co. got involved. I've always considered PE the textbook case for post-deregulation startup that grew too fast and could not meet expectations.


User currently offlineAf773atmsp From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2693 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (6 years 1 month 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3985 times:

Republic Airlines had a hub at MSP, DTW, and MEM.


It ain't no normal MD80 its a Super 80!
User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (6 years 1 month 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3831 times:

NY:

RDU

EWR

IAD











User currently offlineNWOrientDC10 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1404 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (6 years 1 month 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3786 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting TN757Flyer (Reply 6):
Always great work on your site, the best nostalgia site for the industry by far, kudos!

Agreed!  yes 

Good job, N702ML!  bigthumbsup 

Russell



Things aren't always as they seem
User currently offlineN702ML From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (6 years 1 month 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3607 times:

Just added a new one for y'all.....

The Braniff Kansas City hub 1985-1989

www.departedflights.com/BNMCIhub.html

Enjoy

Quoting TN757Flyer (Reply 6):
Always great work on your site, the best nostalgia site for the industry by far, kudos!



Quoting NWOrientDC10 (Reply 9):
Good job, N702ML!

Awwww....well thanks....I appreciate that! I really do!

Quoting ElBandGeek (Reply 5):
That site would make me very happy if it added TZ's MDW hub.

they'll always hold a spcial place in my heart

You know what, EIBandGeek, I looked into that and considered it, but I don't think it can be done in the format I have been using.

TZ had way too many odd-frequency flights....

FriSatSunOnly, ExTueWed, MonWedFriOnly, Mon/SatOnly....stuff like that that makes it too difficult to get an accurate number of daily departures to certain cities.

Let me see if I can figure out a way to do it for you....


User currently offlineUltimateDelta From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 2133 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (6 years 1 month 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3591 times:

Midwest Express had a hub at OMA from 1994-2003. Now it's just a focus city/mini-hub.


Midwest Airlines- 1984-2010
User currently offlineTDubJFK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (6 years 1 month 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3490 times:

Hey Greg:

Very cool additions to your website --- all your hard work is definitely appreciated!

Also love the 1974 OAG listings you're putting in. Regarding that - any chance u could add some NYC/BDL/BOS listings too?

Thanks!


User currently offlineWESTERN737800 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 693 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (6 years 1 month 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3400 times:

Wow great job man. Where do you get all of your info from?


Bring back Western Airlines!
User currently offlineN702ML From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (6 years 1 month 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3283 times:



Quoting WESTERN737800 (Reply 13):
Wow great job man. Where do you get all of your info from?

Actually, bud, it all comes from my personal collection of timetables.


User currently offlineDesertAir From Mexico, joined Jan 2006, 1462 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 1 month 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3212 times:

AA had a hub in San Jose. There were Eagle flights to Stockton in the 80's.

User currently offlineTeneriffe77 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 470 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 1 month 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3205 times:

Empire, PI, and subsequently US had a hub in SYR before it was shut down in the early 1990's. PI and US also had a hub in Dayton before it too was shut down in the early 1990's. US had a hub in MCO and a mini one in MSY.

User currently offlineNWADC9 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4897 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (6 years 1 month 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3175 times:

Legend lived in DAL.

US had PIT, as did their predecessors on the Allegheny line.

Tower scAir was in...JFK?

Indy Air had IAD.

TWA had STL, MCI, etc.

Didn't United and TWA have a focus city at PIT or something back when DC-9's were latest and greatest?



Flying an aeroplane with only a single propeller to keep you in the air. Can you imagine that? -Capt. Picard
User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (6 years 1 month 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3136 times:



Quoting NWADC9 (Reply 17):
Didn't United and TWA have a focus city at PIT or something back when DC-9's were latest and greatest?

Yes, both had approximately 75-80 flights a day here in the mid-to-late '70s. Both were pulled down about the same time. UA kept their heavy ops at CLE long after PIT was phased out. TW cut most of the flights after the PATCO strike in '81. Otherwise, we might have had two airlines hubbing here like DEN, ORD, DFW and ATL.

Quoting Teneriffe77 (Reply 16):
US had a hub in MCO and a mini one in MSY.

I wouldn't consider MCO a hub, just a focus city. US never designated it as more than a "connecting complex." I do remember seeing MCO airport maps in USAir Magazine from the early '90s to around 2001, but I never saw MCO advertised as a hub.

MSY was a medium-sized station with Express ops in Louisiana, Texas, Florida, Mississippi and Arkansas. They ran from around 1991 to 2003, approximately. Never did figure out why US wanted MSY so badly in the first place.



It's a Great Day for Hockey!
User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4506 posts, RR: 34
Reply 19, posted (6 years 1 month 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3020 times:

Thanks N702ML as always for your hard work. You do a great service for our airline-enthusiast community! Out the door shortly--will check out the new additions later!

It seemed to me that People Express was doomed more by a) the purchase of Frontier, and b) their poor development of organizational-management technology and infrastructure, than they were by the rapidity of expansion at Newark. There was a huge, huge market for low-fare travel on the East Coast waiting to be tapped after Deregulation, and PE hubbed in its biggest O & D market. They simply responded to demand.

Jim



Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 44
Reply 20, posted (6 years 1 month 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3011 times:



Quoting Teneriffe77 (Reply 16):
US had a hub in MCO

TPA was much larger than MCO for US, including international flights like GCM and MEX.



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4506 posts, RR: 34
Reply 21, posted (6 years 1 month 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2929 times:

Some notes re People Express:

--As I remember, BUF averaged over 10 dailies (though I didn't know they had hit 15 at one point) to EWR, while ROC and SYR tended to average 4-6. The Buffalo MSA was not that much bigger--just a few hundred thousand. So PE was probably drawing people from Southern Ontario, as LCC's at BUF do today.
--For a brief point in 1985 or 1986, ROC shot up to 8 dailies to EWR. Of course that was one of the many timetables I didn't save, so I don't know the date.

Jim



Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
User currently offlineWESTERN737800 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 693 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (6 years 1 month 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2876 times:

Wow I could look at that for hours. One of the greatest aviation websites ever. I already put it on my favorites.


Bring back Western Airlines!
User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (6 years 1 month 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2843 times:



Quoting N702ML (Reply 10):
The Braniff Kansas City hub 1985-1989

www.departedflights.com/BNMCIhub.html

Enjoy

As always N702ML, excellent work! I've often wondered why USAir didn't attempt to snatch up more of BN's ops at MCI, especially after all the effort to build it up as a large station. It could possibly have been the mid-continent hub they desperately seeking at the time.



It's a Great Day for Hockey!
User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4506 posts, RR: 34
Reply 24, posted (6 years 1 month 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2806 times:

As always N702ML, excellent work! I've often wondered why USAir didn't attempt to snatch up more of BN's ops at MCI, especially after all the effort to build it up as a large station. It could possibly have been the mid-continent hub they desperately seeking at the time.

At least in our past discussions about MCI's potential to be a hub, the predominant conclusions seemed to be that:

1) MCI's catchment population was too small to support enough O & D for a hub once the industry shook out into its 1990s-to-today configuration of six legacy carriers, because:

2) there weren't enough big enough cities in the region to feed it while already feeding existing large hubs in much larger cities (DEN, STL, DFW). Northeast and midwest hubs in medium-large cities like PIT and CVG had vastly larger total population within say a 700-800 mile radius to help feed them while still helping feed larger-city hubs such as ORD, DTW, and MSP.

Jim



Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
25 OzarkD9S : Isn't it amazing that Ozark/Ozark Midwest at their peak had more flights at STL than AA and WN combined will soon? And that's not counting the TWA hub
26 ItalianFlyer : Speaking of MSY...it was a hub of sorts for National (Mk I), PrideAir (for its four month history) and TranStar (MuseAir).
27 National757 : Why don't you create a page which lists weekly departures by destination for TZ, instead of daily departures? Seems to me that would solve the proble
28 Post contains links N702ML : TDubJFK.... Well, thanks to a long, boring overnight in Little Rock last night and several hours of sitting around the airport today....I am happy to
29 TDubJFK : Hey Greg: Thanks for the LGA entry in 1974 ... much appreciated and enjoyed!!
30 N702ML : Also just added Hartford/Springfield 1974 for you!
31 TDubJFK : Thanks so much again, Greg .. amazing stuff to read back on, buddy!
32 Post contains links N702ML : For anyone interested, the Western Airlines Salt Lake City hub operations 1977-1987 has just been added: www.departedflights.com/WASLChub.html
33 TWA1985 : How about.... Delta and Northwest Orient at ORD. These were focus cities/ small hubs from the 40's until the late 1980's. Infact, Delta opened the Del
34 Toptravel : Ozark, now that was a great American domestic carrier. I flew them a few times from NYC/STL Great staff Great airline..Sadly missed in these peanut da
35 Skymiler : IIRC, Eastern had a mini-hub at MCI for a while -- flew their 727's in there many times .. It seems that MCI has had many attempts at becoming a hub,
36 WESTERN737800 : As always great work. My first memories of aviation are seeing the WA 737s at my home airport.
37 N702ML : For those interested... I have just added WEEKLY departure statistics for Pan Am's JFK hub for random dates between 1979 and 1991.
38 Post contains links N702ML : Sorry....the link to the Pan Am departures statistics page is: www.departedflights.com/PAJFKhub.html
39 USPIT10L : Very interesting. Too bad you couldn't include Pan Am Express. I still have no Pan Am timetables of my own yet. Keep up the fantastic work!
40 DeltaL1011man : Ok I have 4 that I am going to ask for: PA-MIA EA-MIA EA-ATL DL-LAX
41 AirframeAS : What about QQ in RNO?
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