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JetBlue And Star Alliance? Why Not?  
User currently offlinePhileet92 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 308 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 5349 times:

I was just wondering if Jetblue could go big if they enter the Star Alliance network? and thinking again, it might be something that could work out. Since Jetblue is a partner of Lufthansa, one of the leading carriers in the Star Alliance network, wouldn't it make sense if Lufthansa represent Jetblue an bring them into the team as a regional carrier perhaps? Lufthansa has a 19% stake in JetBlue and talks of them pairing the Frequent Flyer program have already begun so it would be a good deal. With their hub at JFK, one of the larger gateways to America, it could work out.

Anybody have ideas that they might want to share?

26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCaspritz78 From Germany, joined Aug 2007, 518 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 5293 times:

Yes it could work but I'm not sure if UA , US and from next year on CO would be happy to see B6 in the same alliance. I could imagine that Jetblue will become an exclusive partner for LH with codeshare agreement and combine frequent traveler program. I could think that LH is getting some headaches when they look at UA and US and how these airlines degrade in service. Especially UA could become a problem since UA and LH share revenue on transatlantic flights. While service on two airlines is never the same the differences between LH and UA are becoming bigger and bigger. These new service enhancements on UA IAD-Europe flights in economy are the opposite of what LH is doing.

User currently offlineJohn From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 1374 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 5254 times:

1.They are not an IATA member

2. They do not interline (ticketing & baggage)

These are 2 major reasons they are not part of a global alliance.


User currently offlineCoal From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2129 posts, RR: 10
Reply 3, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 5244 times:

Is it possible that if B6 adopts Miles&More, I could earn SQ KrisFlyer miles on B6? That'd be sweet!!

Cheers
Coal



Nxt Flts: SQ SYD-SIN-DEL-SIN-SYD | VA SYD-DPS-SYD
User currently offlineSandroZRH From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 5211 times:



Quoting Coal (Reply 3):
Is it possible that if B6 adopts Miles&More, I could earn SQ KrisFlyer miles on B6? That'd be sweet!!

I doubt it. ie. BT is using SK's Eurobonus, yet i can't earn any M&M miles on them.


User currently offlineMMEPHX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 5206 times:



Quoting Caspritz78 (Reply 1):
I could think that LH is getting some headaches when they look at UA and US and how these airlines degrade in service

Good point, maybe I assumed wrong, but I always thought membership of an alliance meant there had to be some level of consistency across the product of different airlines even if they do differ. The gap from LH to UA/US is getting much wider. B6 offers a slightly different product but with many little extras not found on UA/US.

Quoting Caspritz78 (Reply 1):
I'm not sure if UA , US and from next year on CO

I think the jury is out on at least UA & US still existing in the next 12-18 months in their current form. CO offers a product that is a step above UA these days (and in IMHO -several steps over US) Maybe B6 steps into the void?

Quoting John (Reply 2):
1.They are not an IATA member

2. They do not interline (ticketing & baggage)

Well with this tie up with LH they will have to at least interline otherwise it will be a meaningless relationship.

Depending on the ultimate fate of UA and US and how B6 grows in the future, I could see in a few years time B6 replacing one of them in Star Alliance. I doubt B6 has the range of destinations to bring anything extra to *A at the moment without one of the other US participants falling by the wayside. In the immediate future, just a LH codeshare partner...which is curious in itself when you consider that *A contains 3 US airlines at the moment...I wonder how they feel?


User currently offlineMHTripple7 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1109 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 5052 times:



Quoting John (Reply 2):
2. They do not interline (ticketing & baggage)

I thought they interlined with EI, LH, and VV? I think that rather than joining an alliance, B6 should take advantage of their JFK hub and partner up, or at least interline with several international carriers. Is interlining that expensive for airline?


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21582 posts, RR: 59
Reply 7, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 4980 times:

With CO joining Star, it is unlikely that B6 would join. CO is larger and has a large hub in the NY area, so adding B6 with their JFK hub would be like having AA and UA in the same alliance in Chicago.


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineF1eddie From Ireland, joined May 2007, 461 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 4927 times:



Quoting MHTripple7 (Reply 6):
2. They do not interline (ticketing & baggage)
I thought they interlined with EI

They do indeed interline with EI for ticketing and baggage.

http://www.aerlingus.com/cgi-bin/obe...gdffgdfkk.0&P_OID=-8061&Category=0



Flown on EI, FR, BMI, TG, PG, FD, JQ, DJ, LA, NZ, SQ, DL, LX, LH
User currently offlineAmerican 767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3996 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 4896 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting Caspritz78 (Reply 1):
Especially UA could become a problem since UA and LH share revenue on transatlantic flights. While service on two airlines is never the same the differences between LH and UA are becoming bigger and bigger. These new service enhancements on UA IAD-Europe flights in economy are the opposite of what LH is doing.

Does that mean United will leave Star? I know nothing has been said about that, but reading this I think it might happen sometimes in the future.

Ben Soriano



Ben Soriano
User currently offlinePhileet92 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 308 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 4851 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 7):
With CO joining Star, it is unlikely that B6 would join. CO is larger and has a large hub in the NY area, so adding B6 with their JFK hub would be like having AA and UA in the same alliance in Chicago.

CO does have a hub in the NY area but in a whole different state! JFK has more of an all around international airline presence with passengers of all types where as EWR has more of a European business presence. It would make it easier for star alliance to serve the east coast if B6 joined especially with airlines from around the world (LH,CA,NH,LX,OZ) just to name a few.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31414 posts, RR: 85
Reply 11, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 4837 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I am not sure B6 needs to actually join Star as a regional member to offer benefits.

As noted, CO has a solid presence out of EWR and UA does out of IAD. So Star already has two strong presences in the NYC and WAS area.

B6 could help LH connecting JFK Economy passengers get around the East Coast, but I doubt they would appeal as much to connecting LH First and Business Class passengers until such time as B6 adopts a First Class cabin.


User currently offlineIcebird757 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 668 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4545 times:

B6 also offers a good caribbean service and is expanding there as well as into Mexico. 3 JD Power awards in a row for "Highest in Customer Satisfaction Among Low Cost Carriers in North America" is not something to snub your nose at either, that shows something else that B6 is doing better than the others.


LGB....where you can watch the grass grow because the traffic is so slow.
User currently offlinePhileet92 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 308 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 4428 times:



Quoting Icebird757 (Reply 12):
B6 also offers a good caribbean service and is expanding there as well as into Mexico. 3 JD Power awards in a row for "Highest in Customer Satisfaction Among Low Cost Carriers in North America" is not something to snub your nose at either, that shows something else that B6 is doing better than the others.

I like the way icebird think. =D Direct service to the Carribean from NYC is something that the other carriers don't have.


User currently offlineORD2PHL From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 313 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4094 times:



Quoting Phileet92 (Reply 13):
I like the way icebird think. =D Direct service to the Carribean from NYC is something that the other carriers don't have.

Unless I'm missing something CO will fill this gap very nicely from EWR when they are integrated into Star next year.

Quoting Phileet92 (Reply 10):
CO does have a hub in the NY area but in a whole different state! JFK has more of an all around international airline presence with passengers of all types where as EWR has more of a European business presence. It would make it easier for star alliance to serve the east coast if B6 joined especially with airlines from around the world (LH,CA,NH,LX,OZ) just to name a few.

EWR has quite a presence of international carriers and service and the point about EWR being in NJ is completely moot - it's not as if JFK is in midtown manhattan anyway, having traveled from both into NYC I'd say that they are equally convenient for getting yourself into "the city"

ORD2PHL


User currently offlineAussieItaliano From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 442 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3967 times:

I see three issues.

1. Would B6 want to join Star?
2. Can another US airline stop them from joining?
3. If so, would another US airline want to stop them from joining?

I would imagine that B6 would want to join Star if LH thought it worthwhile. As a major shareholder, LH has the power to influence the Board of Directors for B6. Not to mention that as one of the world's most profitable airlines, LH's opinions would likely be given much weight by the other B6 shareholders.

I don't know enough about Star Alliance's rules and the powers of one carrier to veto an application by another. I know that UA sponsored the applications of both US and CO. It would be interesting if a carrier based in the US were sponsored by LH.

I don't necessarily think that CO would be against B6 becoming a member of Star because both have major hubs in the NYC area. It could lead to a cooperation between CO and B6 to team up against AA and DL in NYC. Even though they have hubs at different airports, if CO can tap into B6's loyal flyers and vice versa, then I think they can both together dominate the NYC O&D market.

I doubt UA or US would want to block B6's entry into Star because they have argued for consolidation. B6 does not compete with them on their most profitable routes. These carriers are in a tough predicament. They want to keep flying to as many cities as their customers want to go to, but they are being forced to cut many flights due to demand not being high enough to generate a profit with current fuel prices. Perhaps an alliance with B6 would allow them to continue to offer as many destinations as possible while cutting their own flights to non-profitable destinations.

So, in a nutshell, if LH wants B6 in Star, then I think they'll join.



LHR - The Capital of the World
User currently offlineCoal From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2129 posts, RR: 10
Reply 16, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3925 times:



Quoting Phileet92 (Reply 10):
CO does have a hub in the NY area but in a whole different state! JFK has more of an all around international airline presence with passengers of all types where as EWR has more of a European business presence. It would make it easier for star alliance to serve the east coast if B6 joined especially with airlines from around the world (LH,CA,NH,LX,OZ) just to name a few.

I beg to differ. SQ flies one of only two non-stops between Singapore and EWR (18+ hours, the longest scheduled commercial flight) and one of only two non-stop all-Business Class between Asia and the US, into EWR. Point is, it's great that CO is joining Star! And what does EWR being in NJ have to do with anything? EWR is closer to Manhattan than JFK is.

Cheers
Coal



Nxt Flts: SQ SYD-SIN-DEL-SIN-SYD | VA SYD-DPS-SYD
User currently offlineBok269 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 2104 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3851 times:



Quoting Phileet92 (Reply 13):


Quoting Icebird757 (Reply 12):
B6 also offers a good caribbean service and is expanding there as well as into Mexico. 3 JD Power awards in a row for "Highest in Customer Satisfaction Among Low Cost Carriers in North America" is not something to snub your nose at either, that shows something else that B6 is doing better than the others.

I like the way icebird think. =D Direct service to the Carribean from NYC is something that the other carriers don't have.



Quoting ORD2PHL (Reply 14):
Unless I'm missing something CO will fill this gap very nicely from EWR when they are integrated into Star next year.

{Checkmark}
From EWR, CO serves:
NAS
ACA
BQN
SXM
STT
ANU
AUA
BON
CUN
CZM
SJD
MEX
POS
POP
PVR
PUJ
SJU
SDQ

From JFK, B6 serves
CUN
POP
SDQ
STI
AUA
BQN
PSE
SJU
SXM

It appears that CO has the Caribbean and Mexico covered pretty well.

Quoting ORD2PHL (Reply 14):
EWR has quite a presence of international carriers and service and the point about EWR being in NJ is completely moot - it's not as if JFK is in midtown manhattan anyway, having traveled from both into NYC I'd say that they are equally convenient for getting yourself into "the city"

 checkmark  EWR is actually closer to a lot of places in Manhattan than JFK. Couple that with traffic that one often encounters going to and from JFK, and its clear that EWR is just as convenient to the City as JFK, even if it "is in another state."



"Reality is wrong, dreams are for real." -Tupac
User currently offlineMOBflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1209 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3798 times:

Interestingly, I didn't realize that CO had a market share lead over the NYC market.
CO has a 22.38% share, B6 has 17.35%, AA has 15.88%, DL has 15.09%, US has 8.24%, UA has 6.10% WN/TZ has 4.25% NW has 4.09%, FL has 3.28%, NK has 1.17%, all other carriers have less than one percent.

Data from PAXstats Beta 3, and the NYC market includes: JFK, EWR, LGA, SWF, HPN, ISP


User currently offlineGsosbee From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 825 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3717 times:

What am I missing? LH owns 19% of B6, and if LH wants B6 in *A, I am assuming they will be admitted.

User currently offlineUAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3705 times:



Quoting Caspritz78 (Reply 1):
These new service enhancements on UA IAD-Europe flights in economy are the opposite of what LH is doing.

These have been dropped, see the separate thread.

Quoting Gsosbee (Reply 19):
What am I missing? LH owns 19% of B6, and if LH wants B6 in *A, I am assuming they will be admitted

Star member airlines need to vote on who joins and I am sure UA and CO would voice opposition to B6 coming onboard. Star is going to have extensive coverage of the NYC market once CO joins.


User currently offlineGsosbee From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 825 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3689 times:

Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 20):
Star member airlines need to vote on who joins and I am sure UA and CO would voice opposition to B6 coming onboard. Star is going to have extensive coverage of the NYC market once CO joins.

Everyone seems to be missing the key to the question. This has nothing to do with "coverage"; it has everything to do with LH. If LH comes to the table and indicates that they would appreciate B6 being admitted, B6 will be admitted. True, LH can back door B6 into *A by extending M&M to B6; however, that isn't the way LH usually works.

[Edited 2008-09-02 10:56:28]

[Edited 2008-09-02 10:58:10]

User currently offlineUAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 3671 times:



Quoting Gsosbee (Reply 21):
Everyone seems to be missing the key to the question. This has nothing to do with "coverage"; it has everything to do with LH. If LH comes to the table and indicates that they would appreciate B6 being admitted, B6 will be admitted. True, LH can back door B6 into *A by extending M&M to B6; however, that isn't the way LH usually works.

The major words there are "would appreciate"......as I said I suspect that CO and UA would respond with "would appreciate" that they are not admitted and whether people like it or not UA have a large voice in Star. I just dont see it happening.


User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 6132 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 3648 times:



Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 22):
Quoting Gsosbee (Reply 21):
Everyone seems to be missing the key to the question. This has nothing to do with "coverage"; it has everything to do with LH. If LH comes to the table and indicates that they would appreciate B6 being admitted, B6 will be admitted. True, LH can back door B6 into *A by extending M&M to B6; however, that isn't the way LH usually works.

The major words there are "would appreciate"......as I said I suspect that CO and UA would respond with "would appreciate" that they are not admitted and whether people like it or not UA have a large voice in Star. I just dont see it happening.

UA has to sign off on adding any US based carriers to Star and while it could happen I would think that it would be because UA/CO found a way to make it beneficial for all parties involved not just because LH wants it. I don't think B6 will be joining Star anytime soon but it would be interesting to see Star go from being the weakest player in NYC to having over 50% of the market share.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25999 posts, RR: 22
Reply 24, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 3648 times:



Quoting John (Reply 2):
1.They are not an IATA member

That's not an issue. Many carriers in the past have fully participated in the interline system without being IATA members. Many Asian carriers were not IATA members until the 1980s or so (CX/SQ/MH/CI to name a few). And there's very little benefit from being an IATA member for carriers that mainly operate domestic services.


25 Gsosbee : Ok we can agree to disagree. What then is going to be UA's (CO until admitted doesn't count) position when LH starts awarding M&M miles for B6 flight
26 Phileet92 : Thanks for all the feed back. About the EWR and JFK thing, i just thought wouldn't it be hard for passengers to transfer using a CO flight if they wer
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