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Is XL Airways In Trouble?  
User currently offlineBungle1 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2007, 7 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 16320 times:

Does anyone know what is happening to XL airways/ XL leisure group I know they are discountining there caribbean opperations november the 3rd and there lgw to knock scheduled flight , also at the moment according to the british newspapers the times and the telegraph online bussiness pages they are in urgent discussions about refinancing are they in serious trouble?

54 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFerengi80 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2007, 692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 16266 times:
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From the article in the Sunday Times yesterday, things don't look too good. The link to the Sunday Times article is: http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...sectors/leisure/article4641144.ece

There is also another discussion on here to do with a company associated to XL. Pure Flights, who used to purchase large quantities of seats on XL aircraft, appear to have gone bankrupt. If this is the case, then the outlook for XL is grim.

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...eneral_aviation/read.main/4125287/



AF1981 LHR-CDG A380-800 10 July 2010 / AF1980 CDG-LHR A380-800 11 July 2010
User currently offlineDano1977 From British Indian Ocean Territory, joined Jun 2008, 499 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 16151 times:

Also what will be having an effect is that the carribean islands they flew too, have removed the subsidies given to airlines, so making the route less profitable.

If the bookings were not strong for the Carribean, but stronger for Florida or some other far flung place, then it makes perfect sense to drop the "deadwood" routes, and get the aircraft flying on profitable routes.



Children should only be allowed on aircraft if 1. Muzzled and heavily sedated 2. Go as freight
User currently offlinePlanesarecool From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 4124 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (6 years 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 16001 times:



Quoting Ferengi80 (Reply 1):
Pure Flights, who used to purchase large quantities of seats on XL aircraft, appear to have gone bankrupt. If this is the case, then the outlook for XL is grim.

Pure Flights had around 1000 advanced bookings, or around 5 flights worth. Hardly spells out massive trouble for XL.

And their Caribbean operations accounts for four weekly rotations out of a total of 222 for the Summer, so again, hardly a major part of the business. They already cancelled two weekly Caribbean flights for this summer to enable them to offer more flights to Sanford.

Its negative press like this that makes the situation worse.


User currently offlineFFlorida From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 58 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 15907 times:

Do they fly into Orlando as well? Not good for MCO, huh!

User currently offlineAlphaomega From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 577 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 15798 times:



Quoting FFlorida (Reply 4):
Do they fly into Orlando as well? Not good for MCO, huh!

Yes they fly to Orlando but not MCO - they go to SFB for TravelCity Direct using Air Atlanta 747-300s and some 330s from their French arm and Iberworld.

No problems there - if XL stopped the UK-SFB flights, I'm sure TCX or FCA/TOM would fill the space.


User currently offlinePlanesarecool From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 4124 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (6 years 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 15740 times:



Quoting Alphaomega (Reply 5):
they go to SFB for TravelCity Direct using Air Atlanta 747-300s and some 330s from their French arm and Iberworld.

Unfortunately the 747s went last year, meaning this year they are sending the 767s. Of course the 767s don't have as many seats, meaning throughout the high season they have had to send two a day from Gatwick on Thursday-Saturday.


User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4920 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (6 years 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 15507 times:

XL cancelling this winter's caribbean programme with about 2 months notice isn't too good, especially for the affected passengers. But in these times unpleasant decisions like this have to be taken for the long term good. Pure Flights going bust isn't helpful, but not a major disaster for XL. And the need to sort out financing, again not good, but no disaster as they are expected to sort it out. Seems like bad times for XL are being made out to be extremely bad. And with people's jobs at stake best not to over-hype anything. XL has problems, but nothing they can't get through

[Edited 2008-09-01 09:54:24]


Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineAlphaomega From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 577 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 14308 times:



Quoting Planesarecool (Reply 6):
Unfortunately the 747s went last year, meaning this year they are sending the 767s. Of course the 767s don't have as many seats, meaning throughout the high season they have had to send two a day from Gatwick on Thursday-Saturday.

Forgot about that - they said last year they were switching to A330s but XL didn't get them in time for the summer, hence Iberworld. Are they still using the 762s over the pond?


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26999 posts, RR: 57
Reply 9, posted (6 years 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 14277 times:

Its going to be touch and go with XL . I would not be booking too advance with them.

User currently offlinePlanesarecool From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 4124 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (6 years 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 14138 times:



Quoting Alphaomega (Reply 8):
Are they still using the 762s over the pond?

Only when the 767-300s go tech. There was a period when one was in maintenance so the -200 was used regularly across the pond. But otherwise, they have their own short haul operation to Dalaman, Tenerife, Heraklion and Kos on Monday-Wednesday, then are used as backup for the rest of the week

Quoting OA260 (Reply 9):
Its going to be touch and go with XL . I would not be booking too advance with them.

Purposefully avoiding them won't help.

The fact is, if XL go bust due to this then the outlook for the whole industry, or at least the whole charter/holiday industry will look extremely bleak. They operate the youngest and most efficient fleet of any UK airline, have been the most punctual charter carrier during the summer season and have generally positive customer feedback and good advanced bookings, through many different tour operators.


User currently offlineACdreamliner From UK - Scotland, joined May 2005, 519 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (6 years 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 13922 times:

im booked with XL in march/april next year. lgw-sanford. B763 out A333 back.

if my holiday insurance is with Travel City Direct will it still pay out if they go bust. im not to hot on these sort of things... the whole package is with TCD flights, tickets, hotel car et al.

thanks

gav



Where are you going?
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26999 posts, RR: 57
Reply 12, posted (6 years 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 13732 times:



Quoting Planesarecool (Reply 10):
The fact is, if XL go bust due to this then the outlook for the whole industry, or at least the whole charter/holiday industry will look extremely bleak.

Not really. It doesn't really have anything to do with A/C or age it has to do with who is getting the bookings and who is making a profit. XL are big enough to worry about but nothing compared to the real big boys that dominate the UK market. If Thomas Cook were going bust then I will worry.

Quoting ACdreamliner (Reply 11):
if my holiday insurance is with Travel City Direct will it still pay out if they go bust. im not to hot on these sort of things... the whole package is with TCD flights, tickets, hotel car et al.

It depends on your policy. There will be different sections which you need to read and clarify the terms of the policy. If in doubt seek further clarification from the insurers. I think it comes under ''Tour operator failure'' or something similar.


User currently offlineTeme82 From Finland, joined Mar 2007, 1527 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 13638 times:
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Hmm... AY has leased an A332 from XL to operate winter charters to HKT ...Not good news at all....


Flying high and low
User currently offlineLapper From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 1565 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (6 years 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 13542 times:



Quoting ACdreamliner (Reply 11):
if my holiday insurance is with Travel City Direct will it still pay out if they go bust. im not to hot on these sort of things... the whole package is with TCD flights, tickets, hotel car et al.

If you've booked it all as a package, you will be covered under TCD's ATOL licence. If TCD has sold it to you seperately, they are technically breaking the law.


User currently offlinePlanesarecool From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 4124 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (6 years 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 13427 times:



Quoting OA260 (Reply 12):
Not really. It doesn't really have anything to do with A/C or age it has to do with who is getting the bookings and who is making a profit.

The efficiency and age of aircraft has a lot to do with it. When Excel Airways operated the ancient 757s, 737-400s etc, they had a huge number of technical problems, resulting in many delays. With huge delays come huge costs - hotel rooms etc, and of course a loss in customer confidence. Now they're operating a fleet of efficient 737NGs, they're having much fewer problems, meaning fewer hotel rooms, vouchers, compensation to pay for, and customer confidence with the company is generally remaining high.

XL haven't had a problem selling holidays. Direct sales through XL, Libra and TCD have been positive this year, and initial sales for next year better than at the same time last year. They also sell a lot of their seats to outside tour operators such as Mark Warner and Exclusive Escapes.

As the report says, its the withdrawal of funding that has caused this panic, not falling holiday/flight sales.


User currently offlineBoeing74741R From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2007, 1164 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 12962 times:



Quoting Alphaomega (Reply 5):
Yes they fly to Orlando but not MCO - they go to SFB for TravelCity Direct using Air Atlanta 747-300s and some 330s from their French arm and Iberworld.

The 747-300s left the fleet last year. There is one A330 on loan from XL France IIRC pending XL UK acquiring their own A330s.

I for one hope that XL do not go bust, but I wouldn't have thought they would readily go and axe their entire Carribbean programme in a hurry.

Quoting ACdreamliner (Reply 11):
if my holiday insurance is with Travel City Direct will it still pay out if they go bust. im not to hot on these sort of things... the whole package is with TCD flights, tickets, hotel car et al.

Travel City Direct are ATOL protected, so that should cover you if they go under. Or does that apply to TCD only?


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26999 posts, RR: 57
Reply 17, posted (6 years 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 12875 times:



Quoting Planesarecool (Reply 15):
As the report says, its the withdrawal of funding that has caused this panic, not falling holiday/flight sales.

Time will tell. Maybe we will chat on another thread down the line about the collapse of XL , maybe not. I hope not but there will be losses in this section of the industry before the year is out.


User currently offlineAlangirvan From New Zealand, joined Nov 2000, 2106 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (6 years 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 12171 times:

Would XL or any other UK based airline pick up the LGW-FLL sector that Zoom was operating?

User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24936 posts, RR: 56
Reply 19, posted (6 years 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 11424 times:



Quoting Planesarecool (Reply 6):
Unfortunately the 747s went last year, meaning this year they are sending the 767s. Of course the 767s don't have as many seats, meaning throughout the high season they have had to send two a day from Gatwick on Thursday-Saturday.

Also using a French A332 in XL c/s from MAN,GLA and CWL.



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineSpud757 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2007, 339 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 11323 times:

articles like this do nothing to help the situation. Sometimes the press actualyl accelerate a problem into a crisis.

I have an XL charter booking for next year through Olympic Holidays. Not concerned and I suggest other people carry on business as usual


User currently offlineHotelmode From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2007, 460 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (6 years 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 11174 times:



Quoting Boeing74741R (Reply 16):
but I wouldn't have thought they would readily go and axe their entire Carribbean programme in a hurry.

They've cancelled 3-4 weekly flights partly due to the removal of subsidy from the islands and moved some of that capacity elsewhere. Most other airlines have made similar moves and no-one is talking of bankrupcy.

And if you were an airline in trouble would you bother cancelling a chunk of services (with the refunds that entails) a week before you went under??


User currently offlineDiesel1 From UK - Wales, joined Mar 2001, 1638 posts, RR: 11
Reply 22, posted (6 years 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 10895 times:

The issue of XL Leisure Group's funding is not a new story.

Initially the loan guarantees involved in the purchase of XL were supposed to have expired a few months ago. The refinancing was not completed within this timescales, but the previous owners (Eimskip) agreed to extend the loan guarantees until such time as it was.

Barclays bank in the UK have now been somewhat unhelpful (may be their patience around the protracted refinancing, is wearing thin), and all of a sudden there is a crisis. If I understand correctly, they are "minor lenders" to XL Leisure Group.

Until such time as the refinancing is complete then of course the future activities of XL Leisure Group are in question (note: not in doubt or at risk).
It's clear they are taking steps to reduce costs and remove less profitable parts of the business (No Caribbean flights this winter / end of scheduled services to Knock). These are tough decisions, but one a business has to make to ensure viability

Overall though, they are probably in no better or worse place than they were a few months ago. There may be a bit more urgency needed. It's just that as the press have picked up on the situation on the back of Zoom's demise, a whole load more people know about it.





One final point... when the refinancing is announced will it be Thomas Cook money........?



I don't like signatures...
User currently offlineNEMA From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 716 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 10439 times:



Quoting ACdreamliner (Reply 11):
if my holiday insurance is with Travel City Direct will it still pay out if they go bust. im not to hot on these sort of things... the whole package is with TCD flights, tickets, hotel car et al.

If you used a credit card to pay, there should be additional support from the card company.



There isnt really a dark side to the moon, as a matter of fact its all dark!
User currently offlineBabybus From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (6 years 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 10197 times:

Due to the UK recession and the high price of travel we are going to see a contraction in the volumn of holiday sales. I expect traffic to be minimal in the winter and probably a third reduction for next summer (if not half).

XL is the type of airline that relies on tour operators for punters, just like Excalibur and Britsh Island Airways in the past.

Tour operators will consolidate their own clients to their own airlines and unfortunately that means airlines like XL will find it difficult to fill seats at an economic rate.

This isn't a climate for airlines like XL.  Sad


25 Planesarecool : As has been said, their 'entire' Caribbean programme is only a fraction of their operation, consisting of no more than 6 weekly flights at any time.
26 Diesel1 : To compare XL Airways with airlines like BIA and Excalibur is more than a little unfair - these airlines are long defunct and operated in an era when
27 Planesailing : I heard they had cancelled a friends flight to a Greek island, I believe in October if memory serves me right due to low bookings.
28 Humberside : About Libra worth noting that they are not part of XL. XL are a 20% shareholder (with an option to sell) but they are part of the Allbury Travel Group
29 Babybus : Capacity cuts are not something in the public domain. These are things arranged behind closed doors. The figures can be made to say whatever the compa
30 ZuluTime : The subsidy is still there, but XL wanted it to be increased for them to carry on flying the routes. The islands apparently refused, or so I heard.
31 Candid76 : XL was Excel which was Sabre which IIRC had its roots in Dan Air, so maybe historically not so far fetched! What do you expect? Saying nothing doesn'
32 Planesarecool : Around half the 737 fleet will be going to North America to operate for Sunwing, Xtra Airways, Miami Air etc. This happens every Winter. One of the 7
33 Rdwootty : I am very worried about the possibility of there being only Thomas Cook and TUI left with the holiday market . The smaller ( often very good) operator
34 Spud757 : Kosmar, part of the XL group is a big operator to it's core market, Greece. As well as that they have non XL group tour operators that mainly use XL
35 Post contains links Teme82 : Well AY stated in their pres release that it is leased from XL Airways LTD. Press release : http://www.finnairgroup.com/group/gr...up_11_2_1.html?&Id
36 Diesel1 : Kosmar Holidays licensed for 125k passengers Freedom Flights licensed for 493k passengers No idea about the other two. We can add The Really Great Ho
37 Captaink : Excel flights to the Caribbean is on behalf of Golden Caribbean, who have used Monarch, JMC and Caledonian in the past. I am not seeing the direct li
38 Post contains links Captaink : After checking Golden Caribbean's website it does seem as though it was XLs decision to cut the routes. Golden Caribbean is expected to make an announ
39 Humberside : While Olympic do use XL, they mainly use Monarch, and to a lesser extent Eurocypria and European as well as occasionally TCX/TOM. For example their S
40 BCAL : Ambassador was a airline that was founded following the collapse of Air Europe (the UK airline) following the void left for charter flights to operat
41 ZuluTime : When XL first started flights to the Caribbean, they were operated as charters for Golden Caribbean but this is no longer the case. Golden Caribbean
42 Gilesdavies : Looks like XL Airways are also pulling the plug on their scheduled operations out of Luton, they have successfully operated daily service to LCA for t
43 Humberside : At least there is ZB to LCA TOM of course shut down their STN base but have inherited one there again with FCA. Two based aircraft there next summer.
44 Planesarecool : This is actually because Monarch are filling in a lot of the gaps that Astraeus left when they stopped their own charter operations. Flights to Banju
45 Spud757 : XL cover the home counties from LGW
46 Bungle1 : Sad news for the staff that XL lesuire group and XL airways have ceased trading,I hope in the uk we dont see other airlines going the same way in the
47 Post contains links Teme82 : Looks bad : http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...rent-files-for-administration.html On a side note how does this affect on the new A332's that they
48 BA319-131 : - I don't thing Airbus will have trouble placing these planes with other operators.
49 Oa260 : Thought it was at the end . Sad for the people that are stranded and the XL staff.
50 Andaman : Finnair was leasing a new A332 from XL for the HEL-HKT charters next winter season...
51 Manphx : Just got in to work at MAN such a shame to hear the news, naturally the airport is pretty busy at the moment! Think I noticed just the one XL aircraft
52 Oa260 : Sky News said a flight from SFB to MAN took off but is missing . So I suppose somewhere during the flight they landed somewhere?? Apparantly XL owe t
53 Teme82 : Would AY lease the plane from Airbus to operate the HEL-HKT flights??
54 Post contains links Scbriml : Given that this thread was started before the situation at XL was clear, and that we have another thread confirming the news that XL is in administrat
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