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TAM Confirms LIM To Begin Oct 17  
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2623 times:
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TAM, continuing it's strong (and big) international expansion, announces the schedule for it's new service to Lima, Peru.

Daily Service will begin on October 17:

JJ8066 GRU 0825 LIM 1035
JJ8067 LIM 1145 GRU 1930

The aircraft to be used is the A32A (how A320 with Business Class is known on TAM) with 12C and 144/150Y.

With such schedule TAM will provide immediate connection for their passengers from mostly international routes (except for LHR). But MAD, CDG, FRA and MXP will be all possible.

Next international announcement should be GIG-JFK schedule in no later than 2 weeks. GRU-MCO will follow.

Last month TAM begins the first BSB-EZE non-stop and a second GIG-EZE, this month will begin GIG-MIA daily flight as well as an upgrade on MAO-MIA to Boeing 767-300 from A32A.


New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
48 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 1, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2527 times:

Thanks for the news, Lipe.

Now competition GRU-LIM will be fierce with double daily TA dlights plus 10 weekly LA and now daily TAM. LIM was long-overdue in TAM network and business Brazil-Peru is growing fast.

Lets wait for more flights to Latin America including the long awaited GRU-MEX by TAM.

Rgs,


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 2, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2463 times:
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Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 1):
Lets wait for more flights to Latin America including the long awaited GRU-MEX by TAM.

It's far... i believe the next step will be a change on CCS route. TAM is now able to remove the MAO stop and we shall see some change (even 763 upgrade) soon. BOG should follow in 2009, IMO and as soon as ANAC increases the bilateral with Colombia, now the more restrictive in South America with Brazil.

In Europe, Some changes ahead with the end of TAM/AF partnership effective Nov 1. We may see some reduction on GRU-CDG while the GIG-CDG get a GRU-GIG leg (become GRU-GIG-CDG).

As a side note, GRU-MCO should begin by November 14.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineJJ8080 From Brazil, joined Aug 2008, 932 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2439 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Thread starter):
Daily Service will begin on October 17:

JJ8066 GRU 0825 LIM 1035
JJ8067 LIM 1145 GRU 1930

Thanks for the info... Very good schedule... Any chances of it receiving a A332 in the future to face LAN's 767 product? Maybe a bird standing at GRU the hole day waiting for a redeye long-haul flight.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 2):
TAM is now able to remove the MAO stop

Did they got the authotization for such thing?? That would be very good for the route results.


Felipe, maybe you can help me to built JJ's Plane using scheme by the end of 2008, please correct me if I'm wrong. (Assuming the arrival of 1 77W, 2 763, 2 332s and phasing out of one M11)

GRU-LHR - 2 77W
GRU-CDG - 2 332 / 1 M11
GRU-MAD - 1 332
GRU-MXP - 2 332
GRU-MIA - 3 332
GRU-JFK - 3 332
GRU-MCO - 1 763

GIG-CDG - 2 332
GIG-JFK - 1 332
GIG-MIA-MAO - 2 763

BSB-MIA - 1 763



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User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 4, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2431 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 2):
It's far... i believe the next step will be a change on CCS route. TAM is now able to remove the MAO stop and we shall see some change (even 763 upgrade) soon. BOG should follow in 2009, IMO and as soon as ANAC increases the bilateral with Colombia, now the more restrictive in South America with Brazil.

I was looking at present expansion cetiris paribus. CCS is already served and would therefore get nonstop (this is also LONG overdue!), while BOG still demands a change in the bilateral, which AV is vehemently opposing.

I still think that MEX is certainly one of the major missing links in TAM network and the route generates very high yields: see AM recent expansion to 10/11 weekly. The fact TAM will join Star makes it necessary for TAM to expand regionally so as to capitalise on the alliance-fed traffic.

Quoting JJ8080 (Reply 3):
Thanks for the info... Very good schedule...

Agree the schedule is perfect. The route will be a winner! LIM is a perfect addition long overdue. It will be interesting to see how competition will now react.

Rgs,


User currently offlineJJ8080 From Brazil, joined Aug 2008, 932 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2427 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 4):
I was looking at present expansion cetiris paribus. CCS is already served and would therefore get nonstop (this is also LONG overdue!), while BOG still demands a change in the bilateral, which AV is vehemently opposing.

I still think that MEX is certainly one of the major missing links in TAM network and the route generates very high yields: see AM recent expansion to 10/11 weekly. The fact TAM will join Star makes it necessary for TAM to expand regionally so as to capitalise on the alliance-fed traffic.

Agree. GRU-MEX service should, IMO, come before GRU-MCO.... They should try to do some kind of negociation with RG/G3 for the rights of the route.... As for BOG bilateral issue, what do you think about GRU-CCS-BOG? Still better than a MAO stop, that cuts the flight in the middle of passengers dreams!  Silly



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User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 6, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2426 times:



Quoting JJ8080 (Reply 5):
As for BOG bilateral issue, what do you think about GRU-CCS-BOG? Still better than a MAO stop, that cuts the flight in the middle of passengers dreams

The bilateral does not allow for BOG-MEX 5th freedom rights. Also BOG is now an important route which demands nonstop operations.

Quoting JJ8080 (Reply 5):
GRU-MEX service should, IMO, come before GRU-MCO....

Agreed.

Rgs,


User currently offlineJJ8080 From Brazil, joined Aug 2008, 932 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2420 times:



Quoting JJ8080 (Reply 5):
BOG-MEX

You meant BOG-CCS right? Well, then is just a metter of the bilateral, as GRU-BOG and GRU-CCS can be flown by A320, even, IMO, both deserving something bigger...



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User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 8, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2406 times:
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FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting JJ8080 (Reply 3):
Thanks for the info... Very good schedule... Any chances of it receiving a A332 in the future to face LAN's 767 product? Maybe a bird standing at GRU the hole day waiting for a redeye long-haul flight.

Yes, LIM is not so well served to Europe, so TAM would be a winner as they offer convenient connections to markets like CDG, MAD, FRA and LHR. May be in the future they got better LHR departure slots to allow LIM to be connected.

Quoting JJ8080 (Reply 3):
Did they got the authotization for such thing?? That would be very good for the route results.

Yes, Venezuela-Brazil has changed from 7 + 7 regional to 21 unrestricted frequencies.

Quoting JJ8080 (Reply 3):
GRU-LHR - 2 77W
GRU-CDG - 2 332 / 1 M11
GRU-MAD - 1 332
GRU-MXP - 2 332
GRU-MIA - 3 332
GRU-JFK - 3 332
GRU-MCO - 1 763

GIG-CDG - 2 332
GIG-JFK - 1 332
GIG-MIA-MAO - 2 763

BSB-MIA - 1 763

1- Why GRU-MIA and GRU-JFK with 3 planes ?
2- GRU-MAD will be 2 332
3- GRU-MXP will be 2 A345
4- GRU-MCO will be A332
5- GIG-CDG will be GRU-GIG-CDG 2 332
6- GIG-JFK to begin with 763

The 4th 763 is still unclear... it has a terrible setting (with 220Y and some C i didn't recall correctly). So BSB-MIA is on "stand-by"

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 6):
Quoting JJ8080 (Reply 5):
GRU-MEX service should, IMO, come before GRU-MCO....

Agreed.

I disagree with you both guys. And i explain why...
MEX isn't a strong place for Brazilian investment, it's a place where we can find a lot of inter-company business as well as Mexican investments in Brazil (with an impressive list which includes Embratel, StarOne, Claro Telecom, PlusVita, Bimbo, Banco Azteca..) while Brazilian Investment is limited to ... Habibs, Spoletto, Petrobras (growing).
So i doubt TAM, with strong presence in Brazil would be able to do different from RG and ONE which never got more than 30% loads.
They might be able to fight against AM, but not for people outside Mexico City.
And the visa continue to be a problem.

So for me MCO, it's far better than MEX as also you may provide service with 1 plane without hurting the yields, something you may not consider to MEX due to competition.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 9, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2339 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 8):
Yes, LIM is not so well served to Europe, so TAM would be a winner as they offer convenient connections to markets like CDG, MAD, FRA and LHR. May be in the future they got better LHR departure slots to allow LIM to be connected.

The problem is that pax would need to detour to reach LIM wasting at least 5 hours if flying from/to Europe. In my opinion LIM will mainly be a Brazil/Argentina/Paraguay-Peru market for TAM.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 8):
So i doubt TAM, with strong presence in Brazil would be able to do different from RG and ONE which never got more than 30% loads.

I disagree, sorry. You cannot compare TAM with ONE or RG. AM is doing great in this market and fares are high because of strong demand. There is need for competition and another strong player for Brazil-Mexico. MEX-GRU is one of the biggest city pairs in the world measure by population linking two major emerging markets. TAM would capture a lot of the Brazilian-base pax and Brazilian connections something RG and ONE did not have. We all know that RG and ONE failed in MEX because of other reasons. With Star under its arm GRU-MEX by TAM would be a strong winner. In the meanwhile AM is reaping the profits of this market with high fares.

Rgs,


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 10, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2320 times:
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Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 9):
With Star under its arm GRU-MEX by TAM would be a strong winner. In the meanwhile AM is reaping the profits of this market with high fares.

Hardi, there is no difference on Star because of Brazil or Mexico. None has a base of customers or a based airline now on Star *.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 9):
AM is doing great in this market and fares are high because of strong demand. There is need for competition and another strong player for Brazil-Mexico

Because of strong demand Mexico-Brazil not the opposite.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 9):
MEX-GRU is one of the biggest city pairs in the world measure by population linking two major emerging markets

Correct.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 9):
TAM would capture a lot of the Brazilian-base pax and Brazilian connections something RG and ONE did not have

That's my point, it's not so big. People don't go to MEX to learn spanish, people don't go to MEX to have vacation, there is no strong Brazilian investment. I do believe TAM made a research about MEX in the near past and do not consider MEX as part of their wish list.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 9):
The problem is that pax would need to detour to reach LIM wasting at least 5 hours if flying from/to Europe. In my opinion LIM will mainly be a Brazil/Argentina/Paraguay-Peru market for TAM.

For Argentina it's another big waste of time and closer to 100% more time while Europe is a 30% gap. Paraguay is even worst, at least 200% more time. There is limited service from LIM to Europe, and no non-stop to LHR or FRA which means TAM can provide a good alternative. Are you sure It's 5 hours more ? I suspect it's closer to 2h30 more but TAM offer a good advantage as no immigration is required at GRU.
But as i mention, it's an alternative.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineJJ8080 From Brazil, joined Aug 2008, 932 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2316 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 8):
1- Why GRU-MIA and GRU-JFK with 3 planes ?

You are right.... God confused here.... 2 planes are enough for 2 daily with one daylight each way... Correct?

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 8):
3- GRU-MXP will be 2 A345

But this scenario would be after the arrival of all 4 77Ws right (2 would run GRU-FRA) Will all of them arrive till the end of 2008?

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 8):
4- GRU-MCO will be A332



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 8):
6- GIG-JFK to begin with 763

That's what I got wrong then.... Put 763 to MCO and 332 to GIG assuming they will change GIG's 763 to 332 when receive more of them freeing the 763 up to start GRU-MCO... IMO MCO should be 767

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 8):
The 4th 763 is still unclear... it has a terrible setting (with 220Y and some C i didn't recall correctly). So BSB-MIA is on "stand-by"

Is that so hard for them to refit the plane in order to have the same config as the other 767s on the fleet?

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 8):
And the visa continue to be a problem.

Agree. Visa to Mexico still problematic... Got mine in 2005 and was terrible to... Heard from friends that situation still the same or worse...

Although don't agree with you about GRU-MEX vs GRU-MCO... I didn't know about this 30% loads number. that's something that surprised me, althoug, if MEX doesn't have that much business direct relations with Brazil, MCO doesn't have it "at all"... As Hardivw said, Mexico and Brazil are two of the biggest emerging markets in the world, leaded by two of the biggest cities in the world in populations terms. That provides enough demand for JJ to do well on the route, just like am is doing.

Eventually GRU-MEX-CUN-GRU, like RG used to fly, would be a option to merge business and turist demand making loads higher even with yields a little lower then a non-stop GRU-MEX-GRU... But still bet on JJ as a winner on GRU-MEX if they get it...



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User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 12, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2312 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 10):
Hardi, there is no difference on Star because of Brazil or Mexico. None has a base of customers or a based airline now on Star *.

I meant because Star member pax flying MEX-GRU would select TAM the same way some pax select AM because it is SkyTeam.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 10):
People don't go to MEX to learn spanish, people don't go to MEX to have vacation, there is no strong Brazilian investment.

I am not so sure. CUN remains a very strong holiday destination in Brazil (in fact AM will operate GRU-CUN nonstop in January and February), the same about Mexican investment in Brazil from telecom to automotive (sometimes reflectected in indirect investment see WV which sends many executives between Mexico and Brazil because the plants are complementary). Just look at the amount of visas the Mexican consular services issues in Brazil: average of 150 daily in Sao Paulo, 50 daily in Rio and another 30 daily in BSB!

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 10):
There is limited service from LIM to Europe, and no non-stop to LHR or FRA which means TAM can provide a good alternative. Are you sure It's 5 hours more ? I suspect it's closer to 2h30 more but TAM offer a good advantage as no immigration is required at GRU.

I was adding the connection time. Although no immigration is necessary in GRU you know pax would still need to go through security (there is only one X ray machine and I can tell you that depending on the hour it takes a good time to clear security, especially during early morning and late afternoon).

Rgs,


User currently offlineJJ8080 From Brazil, joined Aug 2008, 932 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2307 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 12):
average of 150 daily in Sao Paulo, 50 daily in Rio and another 30 daily in BSB!

Hardiwv, where did you get such information?



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User currently offlineSumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2569 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2303 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 4):
BOG still demands a change in the bilateral, which AV is vehemently opposing

I think that even AV would welcome more frequencies. I guess they would like them to go to OceanAir on the Brasilian side. GIG-BOG can be done with an A319/A320, and connections would be improved with another daily between GRU and BOG.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 6):
BOG is now an important route which demands nonstop operations.

RG flies this route non-stop now with a 738, right?


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 15, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2297 times:



Quoting JJ8080 (Reply 13):
Hardiwv, where did you get such information?

I got the info from the Mexican consulate in Rio (Botafogo) when I applied for my visa in May/2008 when I had a conversation with the consul-general [interesting enough the Mexican consulate in Rio is located in the same building of the Dutch consulate in Rio].

I can also tell you that in 2008 visa application for Mexican visa in Brazil increased 30% over 2007. A total average of 3,500 visa are issued monthly by the Mexican consulates in Brazil.

Rgs,


User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3736 posts, RR: 19
Reply 16, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2296 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 12):
through security (there is only one X ray machine and I can tell you that depending on the hour it takes a good time to clear security, especially during early morning and late afternoon).

At least in T1, the x-ray machine in the middle of the concourse is being used again.


User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3736 posts, RR: 19
Reply 17, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2291 times:



Quoting Summa767 (Reply 14):
I guess they would like them to go to OceanAir on the Brasilian side.

Thats very improbable.

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 14):
RG flies this route non-stop now with a 738, right?

Yep.


User currently offlineJJ8080 From Brazil, joined Aug 2008, 932 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2287 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 15):
I got the info from the Mexican consulate in Rio (Botafogo) when I applied for my visa in May/2008 when I had a conversation with the consul-general [interesting enough the Mexican consulate in Rio is located in the same building of the Dutch consulate in Rio].

I can also tell you that in 2008 visa application for Mexican visa in Brazil increased 30% over 2007. A total average of 3,500 visa are issued monthly by the Mexican consulates in Brazil.

Thanks.. Interesting information... Recorded..  Silly

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 14):
I guess they would like them to go to OceanAir on the Brasilian side.

As CO1OT3 said, very unprobable.. OceanAir's situation today isn't clear for anyone, and intl. flights are out of their plans in a shor term future..

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 14):

RG flies this route non-stop now with a 738, right?

Yes and they would love to have more capacity on the route, as well as premium availability, as there is demand but RG doesn't offers it... Till one month ago they were using 767s on the route..



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User currently offlineSumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2569 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2258 times:



Quoting JJ8080 (Reply 18):
Yes and they would love to have more capacity on the route, as well as premium availability, as there is demand but RG doesn't offers it... Till one month ago they were using 767s on the route..

In the first 6 months of the year RG's load factor to BOG has only been 43.55%. The trend is not exactly fast improving, as the figure for June was just 47.78%. Downsizing tthe aircraft would seem to fit them well. AV's load factor was 85.3% for June, so it does seem as if RG is just not offering what travellers want.

Quoting JJ8080 (Reply 18):
As CO1OT3 said, very unprobable.. OceanAir's situation today isn't clear for anyone, and intl. flights are out of their plans in a shor term future..

Maybe, but if they were to start international flights it would make sense that it was to join forces with its synergy sister at BOG. OceanAir has made a huge operational improvement (amazing change in punctuality and loads) in the last couple of months after that messy, overambitious expansion attempt. It is still expected to receive its first Airbuses in the middle of next year, but has said that it is seeking to advance their delivieries if at all possible.


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 20, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2240 times:



Quoting Summa767 (Reply 19):
In the first 6 months of the year RG's load factor to BOG has only been 43.55%. The trend is not exactly fast improving, as the figure for June was just 47.78%. Downsizing tthe aircraft would seem to fit them well. AV's load factor was 85.3% for June, so it does seem as if RG is just not offering what travellers want.

I think the only routes RG operate healthy loads are EZE and CCS. SCL is also sufferening with low loads. If TAM operates BOG nonstop it would also command +80% loads. I hope the bilateral is revised.

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 16):
At least in T1, the x-ray machine in the middle of the concourse is being used again.

Well, at least this will bring some extra relief (porbably the machine comes from CGH which now is only a domestic terminal). I really dont see the point of security checks for connecting pax. Many airports (including AMS) now have dedicated security checks to some gates, notably to US destinations, which makes the process much quicker and efficient. This is a far cry for what we see in Brazilian airports.

Rgs,


User currently offlineJJ8080 From Brazil, joined Aug 2008, 932 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2233 times:



Quoting Summa767 (Reply 19):
In the first 6 months of the year RG's load factor to BOG has only been 43.55%. The trend is not exactly fast improving, as the figure for June was just 47.78%. Downsizing tthe aircraft would seem to fit them well. AV's load factor was 85.3% for June, so it does seem as if RG is just not offering what travellers want.

Yes, that's the point.. RG just offers poor service, and used to offer poor premium service.. With upgraded service and modern a/c they would manage to do as well as AV on the route, filling a 200-seater easly.. .

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 19):
Maybe, but if they were to start international flights it would make sense that it was to join forces with its synergy sister at BOG. OceanAir has made a huge operational improvement (amazing change in punctuality and loads) in the last couple of months after that messy, overambitious expansion attempt. It is still expected to receive its first Airbuses in the middle of next year, but has said that it is seeking to advance their delivieries if at all possible.

Yes, ONE's situation is still pretty much unclear.. They still have, IIRC, 6 F100 and some F50/EMB120 grounded. Their network is now poor after they dropped a lot of services.. Regarding intl. operations, If I'm not mistaken, they droped them all, but there are strong rumors about they keeping one 763 to start GRU-LAD non-stop.



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User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 22, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2224 times:
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FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting JJ8080 (Reply 11):
But this scenario would be after the arrival of all 4 77Ws right (2 would run GRU-FRA) Will all of them arrive till the end of 2008?

All 77W will be delivered during the next 2/3 months.

Quoting JJ8080 (Reply 11):
That's what I got wrong then.... Put 763 to MCO and 332 to GIG assuming they will change GIG's 763 to 332 when receive more of them freeing the 763 up to start GRU-MCO... IMO MCO should be 767

Agree with you, but TAM HQ's is in São Paulo, not in Rio... so they will use the A332 on a low yield market because begin in São Paulo and the high yield route out of Rio use's 763.
Another reason is that people at GIG will be doing maintenance for the 763 fleet.

Quoting JJ8080 (Reply 11):
Is that so hard for them to refit the plane in order to have the same config as the other 767s on the fleet?

I'm trying to get more info on this.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 12):
I am not so sure. CUN remains a very strong holiday destination in Brazil (in fact AM will operate GRU-CUN nonstop in January and February),

But it's only 2x weekly and seasonal ! January is a different history, and we all know, this is a low yield market, people going to vacation, many under travel agent package with deep discount fares.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 12):
the same about Mexican investment in Brazil from telecom to automotive (sometimes reflectected in indirect investment see WV which sends many executives between Mexico and Brazil because the plants are complementary). Just look at the amount of visas the Mexican consular services issues in Brazil: average of 150 daily in Sao Paulo, 50 daily in Rio and another 30 daily in BSB!

This is a market we should see, but note... the one that use to travel to MEX is the one that travel to Germany, Detroit and many times, a multi-stop trip. I remember one ATL-GIG with a huge staff from Praxair from MEX to GIG thru ATL. We know there's people from Rio that use CM to get to MEX because it's better than AM, as well as people continue to travel thru DFW and MIA.
I agree it's a good market, but isn't enough for a second daily flight. I even don't see demand for the daylight AM will be adding.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 12):
was adding the connection time. Although no immigration is necessary in GRU you know pax would still need to go through security (there is only one X ray machine and I can tell you that depending on the hour it takes a good time to clear security, especially during early morning and late afternoon).

Ok, agree with you now.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 15):
I can also tell you that in 2008 visa application for Mexican visa in Brazil increased 30% over 2007. A total average of 3,500 visa are issued monthly by the Mexican consulates in Brazil.

Which includes renewals, business, leisure and government. An average of 175 daily visa, nothing so huge. I do believe Mexican demand is bigger, may be 2x bigger.

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 14):
I think that even AV would welcome more frequencies. I guess they would like them to go to OceanAir on the Brasilian side. GIG-BOG can be done with an A319/A320

Would be a smart move after TA and CM showing AV that there's life outside São Paulo.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3736 posts, RR: 19
Reply 23, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2221 times:



Quoting JJ8080 (Reply 21):
Yes, that's the point.. RG just offers poor service

That's not true. RG's problem is the fact that G3's administration is just amateur when it comes to selling their product outside the country.


User currently offlineJJ8080 From Brazil, joined Aug 2008, 932 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2213 times:



Quoting C010T3 (Reply 23):
That's not true. RG's problem is the fact that G3's administration is just amateur when it comes to selling their product outside the country.

Agree that G3's administration is amateur, but RG product still poor... One or two month ago, when there was still C-class, it was one of the worst C-Classes operating in Brazil... I flew GRU-CDG on their 763 C-class early this year, and........... No coments...



100 146 319/20/21 332 722 732/3/4/5/G/W/8/H/9 742/3/4 752/3 762/3 772/W BE2 BET E75 CNJ CR2 D10 F27 F50 ER4 LRJ M11 M80
25 Nickofatlanta : FRA-LIM via GRU on JJ would be a little over 20 hours including transit time in GRU. KL via AMS is approx 16 hours whilst IB via MAD is approx 17 hour
26 C010T3 : I'm talking about the 737s and the intracontinental network. You're talking about the 767s and the intercontinental network. Forget about that. The 7
27 JJ8080 : I'm was talking about intracontinental 767 service that they dropped something like a month ago... And even the current 738 flight still cant't face
28 SJOtoLIR : Current bilateral agreement between Peru-Brazil: TA LIM-GRU 14x weekly TA LIM-GIG 4x weekly LP LIM-GRU 10x weekly TOTAL: 28x weekly. From the Brazili
29 Hardiwv : But the problem is that according to TAM GRU-MCO will be high yield while GIG-JFK low yield. I personally share your view that JFK-GIG should be star
30 LH506 : yes that is true, but you still change planes in LIM.
31 C010T3 : That was only an interim solution. The bilateral was expanded last month and 7 frequencies will be added every year until 2012.
32 JJ8080 : No doubt.. But what we are talking about here is inflight service wich is poor.. Even on transatlantic flights a couple of months ago when there were
33 Hardiwv : Correct, bilateral with Venezuela is now 21 weekly frequencies plus 14 weekly cargo-only. ABSA is interested in the cargo flights to CCS, one of its
34 LipeGIG : They have the option to get a 4th plane from Air Madagascar (767-300ER). IIRC this plane is a 24C 220Y seat config. The A321 can't fly GRU-CCS non-st
35 JJ8080 : I don't think that would be a problem for the A320-200 to fly GRU-CCS non-stop even if loaded, considering that GRU-CCS being a 2.346nm route, and th
36 EddieDude : When, what, how??? I was unaware. I thought AM was sticking to its daily red-eye service using a mix of 777s and 767s, and that any future expansion
37 Hardiwv : This is why I asked about the A321. TAM would not use the A319 only if it configured a specific aircraft with C cabin for CCS although we know that C
38 C010T3 : The SFPs are used on that AFAIK. They have a better performance.
39 LipeGIG : I saw the flight last week on GD's but today i research and can't find. The 738 demands a technical stop if they face strong tail wind and this happe
40 JJ8080 : RG's CUN service was a add-on from MEX service.. It was actually GRU-MEX-CUN-GRU, proving the importance of CUN market... Didn't know about this freq
41 LipeGIG : Stops at MAO. Note that the 738 is the work-horse on G3/RG fleet (now they can't count with any 763)
42 JJ8080 : They will need to get something bigger and more long-haul capable then a 738SFP if they want to improve their international services. I don't know if
43 Hardiwv : Correct, Eddie! The announcement came last July and AM already requested the frequencies to ANAC. Daily red-eye flights B777/B767 will remain, while
44 JJ8080 : Anyonek now how is thier MEX-GRU service mixed up within 767s and 777s?? 4x weekly 777s and 3x weekly 762s? 763s?
45 Hardiwv : 5 weekly B777 and 2 weekly B767, although during many weeks AM operates 6 weekly B777 and 1 weekly B767. Usually Thursdays are always devoted for B76
46 JJ8080 : This two are still with RG's seats?? Don't understand why airlines don't padronize aircrafts before put it to fly regulary. Doesn't this cause proble
47 LipeGIG : It's already approved. yes but last year the same daylight GRU-MEX was a disaster and AM stop the flights in the middle of January.
48 Hardiwv : Indeed, I find a lot of disconfort when you dont know which product your are buying...something typical with TAM! Yes, the seats are still the ones f
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