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FYI: New Rekkof Site  
User currently offlineLifelinerOne From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 1922 posts, RR: 7
Posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 11971 times:

Well, Rekkof has been busy updating it's site. Have a look at www.rekkof.nl for the latest version of their site. Finally a professional site.

It seems that there is some movement as they are now using the "Fokker" name and they also dubbed their planes the XF70 and XF100. The "X" is for the Next Generation version of these planes.

Nice pictures of the new Fokkers as well. Great winglets!

In the past I was a little in the loop on the things going on at Rekkof, but nowadays, I'm not anymore. However, I'm very sceptic about the company, but it's nice to see their still around. Latest rumour is, by the way, that with the sale of VLM to KLM they almost gained enough money to finally start things, but that's just rumours.

Ah, well, have a nice time browsing their site.

Cheers!  wave 


Only Those Who Sleep Don't Make Mistakes
46 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 24
Reply 1, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 11965 times:

Ohhh NOOOOOOOO - not again another Rekkof attempt and anouncements never followed by the slightest actions ....
They should have saved the money for updating the web-page and donate to WWF !



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineOwlEye From Netherlands, joined Feb 2006, 959 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 11925 times:

Exciting. Looks very promising and serious. Success Rekkof.

User currently offlineA300 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 474 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 11914 times:
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It is just like genital herpes! Whenever you thing it is gone, it shows up again.
Seriously though I love F28,70,100 family. Nevertheless, given all the other players in the market (ARJ-21, C-series, E-jets, MRJ, SSJ), what makes them think that they are viable?



Boland Aseman Jayegah Man Ast.
User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4397 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 11834 times:

A regional jet with BR710 in times when launch of a GTF based competitor is difficult?

I wish them all success - there still are many old jets to be replaced. It will be hard.


User currently offlineVasu From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 3916 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 11828 times:

I know we keep seeing this pop up every now and again... but I for sure would love to see these things in the air!

User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21532 posts, RR: 59
Reply 6, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 11793 times:

As a derivative, they should be able to certify the exit door configuration, but if it's considered a new plane, it is no longer allowed to have seats with only one way out, as all of the seats behind the wings would have.


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4841 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 11756 times:



Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 1):
Ohhh NOOOOOOOO - not again another Rekkof attempt and anouncements never followed by the slightest actions ....

It's okay. They could offer the XF100 to replace this in a trade-in deal and also not get a commitment.....  Wink

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Rekkof probably looked at what Bombardier is doing with their portfolio and decided to follow suit.



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineTDubJFK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 11745 times:

Also strange in the 'Range Maps' section, that they show the expected range of these two twinjets to be as far as NYC-West Coast and NYC-Ireland?

Say whaaaaaat?


User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11655 posts, RR: 60
Reply 9, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 11733 times:



Quoting A300 (Reply 3):
Nevertheless, given all the other players in the market (ARJ-21, C-series, E-jets, MRJ, SSJ), what makes them think that they are viable?

I suppose they could claim some commonality with the old aircraft (type rating perhaps?), but I can't think of much which would be the same considering the new design.

Fingers crossed that it gets in the air this time, but I have my doubts.



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlinePetertenthije From Netherlands, joined Jul 2001, 3369 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 11698 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 6):
As a derivative, they should be able to certify the exit door configuration, but if it's considered a new plane, it is no longer allowed to have seats with only one way out, as all of the seats behind the wings would have.

The F100 had a rear door just in front of the #1 engine available as option. The F70 did not.

As for new buil Fokkers, I'll see it before I'll believe it. And probably I won't even believe it then. Hope it will happen, but after all this time I am very sceptical. Even KLM has Embraers on order now!



Attamottamotta!
User currently offlineTDubJFK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (6 years 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 11636 times:



Quoting Petertenthije (Reply 10):
Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 6):
As a derivative, they should be able to certify the exit door configuration, but if it's considered a new plane, it is no longer allowed to have seats with only one way out, as all of the seats behind the wings would have.

The F100 had a rear door just in front of the #1 engine available as option. The F70 did not.

I always wondered why they never fitted out a rear tailcone exit like the DC9 and 727 had? Would that not have solved the problem?


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21532 posts, RR: 59
Reply 12, posted (6 years 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 11613 times:



Quoting TDubJFK (Reply 11):
I always wondered why they never fitted out a rear tailcone exit like the DC9 and 727 had? Would that not have solved the problem?

It's a lot of weight, and isn't sufficient for emergencies because it can't be used with slides or rafts.

The rear entry for the DC9 and 727 was really for completely unimproved airports in the 60s, and allowed for self contained operations without even the need for external air stairs. The 737 had an airstair option at 1L instead.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineTDubJFK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (6 years 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 11600 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 12):

Quoting TDubJFK (Reply 11):
I always wondered why they never fitted out a rear tailcone exit like the DC9 and 727 had? Would that not have solved the problem?


It's a lot of weight, and isn't sufficient for emergencies because it can't be used with slides or rafts.

Wow, I was off base on that one! But it does makes sense. Thanks for clearing that up for me - i didnt realize that rear exit was more for boarding than as an emergency exit.


User currently offlineOyKIE From Norway, joined Jan 2006, 2752 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 11209 times:



Quoting LifelinerOne (Thread starter):
Ah, well, have a nice time browsing their site.

Thank you for posting this update. I had a really nice time looking at this beatiful airplane! Rear mounted airplanes are so good looking Smile How long will the development time take?

Quoting OwlEye (Reply 2):
Exciting. Looks very promising and serious. Success Rekkof.

Lets hope so!

Quoting A300 (Reply 3):
It is just like genital herpes! Whenever you thing it is gone, it shows up again.
Seriously though I love F28,70,100 family. Nevertheless, given all the other players in the market (ARJ-21, C-series, E-jets, MRJ, SSJ), what makes them think that they are viable?

The low weight materials in the Fokker design is amuch safer bet than composite airplanes. Just look at Boeing and their 787.

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 4):
A regional jet with BR710 in times when launch of a GTF based competitor is difficult?

I believe this can become a problem for Rekkof. Why not opt for the same engine as the Gulfsteam G650? The BR725.

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 4):
I wish them all success - there still are many old jets to be replaced. It will be hard.



Quoting Petertenthije (Reply 10):
As for new buil Fokkers, I'll see it before I'll believe it. And probably I won't even believe it then. Hope it will happen, but after all this time I am very sceptical. Even KLM has Embraers on order now!

It will be very hard, but I wish them success. What I wonder about is if it is enough with the RF70 or RF100? IMO they would need a 130 and 150 seater as well. If they offered a whole family, they should be more attractive. How about making the F70 into a 90 seater F90. Not that much heavier, and better use of the two F/A they would still be needing. And then stretch the F100 to 120 seats or an F120. And then a true MD-80 replacement with the F150. That would been cool  Smile



Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
User currently offlineFrigatebird From Netherlands, joined Jun 2008, 1615 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 11189 times:

Rekkof's spokesman said that the website was the only thing that had changed.

Quoting A300 (Reply 3):
Seriously though I love F28,70,100 family. Nevertheless, given all the other players in the market (ARJ-21, C-series, E-jets, MRJ, SSJ), what makes them think that they are viable?



Quoting Burkhard (Reply 4):
A regional jet with BR710 in times when launch of a GTF based competitor is difficult?

Difficult? It's suicide in such a saturated market. If they slammed a couple GTF's on the F70/100, it could very well compete with the ARJ-21, E-jets and SSJ. But with the C-series and the MRJ entering the market, it would be the same situation as the 748i vs the A380: new engines aren't enough to disguise a 40-year old design  no 

And even the C-series still doesn't have any firm orders yet. Speaks enough about any chance of a XF-70/100, GTF or not.



146,318/19/20/21,AB6,332,343,345,388,722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9,742,74E,744,752,762,763,772,77E,773,77W,AT4/7,ATP,CRK,E90,F50/7
User currently offlineThePinnacleKid From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 725 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 11153 times:



Quoting TDubJFK (Reply 11):
I always wondered why they never fitted out a rear tailcone exit like the DC9 and 727 had? Would that not have solved the problem?

On the fokker's the tailcone is a speed brake and opens just like on the Avro's....

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 12):
The rear entry for the DC9 and 727 was really for completely unimproved airports in the 60s, and allowed for self contained operations without even the need for external air stairs. The 737 had an airstair option at 1L instead.

I think he was referring not to the incorporated airstairs.... but to the actual physical tail cone (not on the 727) but on the DC-9/MD-80 family where the tailcone drops off in an emergency and you actually walk out the space where the tailcone was....



"Sonny, did we land? or were we shot down?"
User currently offlineThePinnacleKid From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 725 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 11147 times:



Quoting TDubJFK (Reply 13):


Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 12):

Quoting TDubJFK (Reply 11):
I always wondered why they never fitted out a rear tailcone exit like the DC9 and 727 had? Would that not have solved the problem?


It's a lot of weight, and isn't sufficient for emergencies because it can't be used with slides or rafts.

Wow, I was off base on that one! But it does makes sense. Thanks for clearing that up for me - i didnt realize that rear exit was more for boarding than as an emergency exit.

It's a combination of both being off actually... he was thinking you were referring to the incorporated airstairs... which the 727's and some DC-9's, most MD-80's have... on the flip side you were right about the DC-9, MD-80 family (not the 727).. they have a tailcone that is an emergency exit solely... when the stairs are raised their is a catwalk platform covering them that leads to the tailcone (often off-colored in pics) that jettisons completely off and provides and emergency exit...

and you also need to realize that the tailcone on Fokker's is already used but as a speed brake...



"Sonny, did we land? or were we shot down?"
User currently offlineMEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4328 posts, RR: 35
Reply 18, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 11085 times:

I have always been hopeful and optimistic about Rekkof, it was such a shame that they went bankrupt while they had planes in their portfolio (F-70 and F-100) which had another 20 years of potential profit and production in them just because the Dutch government chickened out and didn't care. But after so many disappointments and delays and seeing even the most faithful Fokker customers like KLM turning to Embraer, I lost hope and there's no place in my brain anymore for expectations about new Fokkers. It now sounds to me like Aerospatiale restarting to build the Caravelle.
While on the other hand, 3 years ago noone would have thought the DHC-6 Twin Otter, Nomad and Do-228 lines would be reopened.



nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
User currently offlineRikkus67 From Canada, joined Jun 2000, 1647 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 10985 times:

ahhh, the lil fokkers....

Looking back at the Fokkers, they were one of my all-time favorite small jets! I absolutely enjoyed the F28's of Time Air (ex-Norcan Air) / Canadi>n Regional. Although older aircraft at the time of the Cad.Reg. purchase, they were extreemly comfortable...way too loud, but what a rocket!
Financials aside, I had wondered why Canadi>n (or later AC), didn't consider a re-engining program on the F28's, as a useful life extender...but that option is far gone now.

RE: XF70/100 program... I think the general concencus will be one of disbelief, seeing is believing. As a reintroduction, I doubt the Fokkers would be successful over the long term. With the premature elimination of the large fleets from (the former) USAir & AA because of parts supplies, what is the perception of the airlines to this latest attempt to get the long delayed relaunch going again?

I believe that even Bombardier looked at the Fokker program after Fokker's demise, just as they had looked at the Fairchild-Dornier 728/928 program...both of which they decided against...



AC.WA.CP.DL.RW.CO.WG.WJ.WN.KI.FL.SK.ACL.UA.US.F9
User currently offlineAirbusA6 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2013 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 10965 times:



Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 18):
While on the other hand, 3 years ago noone would have thought the DHC-6 Twin Otter, Nomad and Do-228 lines would be reopened.

The regional jet market is very crowded, with lots of new machinery, while nobody seems to be designing new props, especially at the lower end of the market. I'm waiting for Bombardier Shorts to put the 360 back in production!

Quoting OyKIE (Reply 14):
I believe this can become a problem for Rekkof. Why not opt for the same engine as the Gulfsteam G650? The BR725.

Good point, why reengine with a 10 year old design?



it's the bus to stansted (now renamed national express a4 to ruin my username)
User currently offlineShed360 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2008, 28 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 10945 times:

Not them again! The aircraft looks nice and that's about it!

Now a new 70 seat F50 would just be what is needed in the market now.



Slow,fat, and ugly but I love 'em - Long live the Shed!
User currently offlineShankly From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2000, 1544 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 10901 times:

Have to say that is one very pretty pair of little fokkers

Are there any part developed or unsold airframes from the original programme ?

Would have made a cracking airframe for the infant Chinese or Indian airspace industries to have played around with

However, suspect the Rekkof business plan looks like:

European labour costs + 1970's airframe + 1990's engine technology + emergence of embraer = invest in something else

Does bring back some great 70's Stansted spotting memories, especially the Sunday morning and evening scandinavian invasion courtesy or Linjeflyg, Braathens SAFE, Conair, Maersk, Scanair, Sterling and Fred Olsen

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L1011 - P F M
User currently offlineCrimsonNL From Netherlands, joined Dec 2007, 1875 posts, RR: 41
Reply 23, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 10880 times:
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Every year for as long as I can remember its the same story.. EVERY YEAR!


Nothing's worse then flying the same registration twice, except flying it 4 times..
User currently offlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4682 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 10862 times:



Quoting Burkhard (Reply 4):
A regional jet with BR710 in times when launch of a GTF based competitor is difficult?



Quoting OyKIE (Reply 14):
I believe this can become a problem for Rekkof. Why not opt for the same engine as the Gulfsteam G650? The BR725.



Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 20):
Good point, why reengine with a 10 year old design?

Burkhard has a very good point. While the BR710 is still an awesome engine - despite being more than 10 years old - there's a problem that the BR725 doesn't solve either: Both engines are optimized for business jets which fly long routes at high altitudes and high speeds. The right engine would be a shrinked and updated BR715, which was designed for a mission profile that is basically identical to that of the F70/F100.

Quoting Shed360 (Reply 21):
Not them again! The aircraft looks nice and that's about it!

Now a new 70 seat F50 would just be what is needed in the market now.

 checkmark  A large turboprop would definitely have better chances on the market.



Exceptions confirm the rule.
25 Danfearn77 : Totally agree, this market is pretty saturated now. Cant deny from the pics that they are great looking aircraft, i think the XF100 would sell better
26 FlyTUITravel : I thought the whole thing had fizzled out so this is a pleasant surprise!
27 Danfearn77 : I love the fact that on the pictures for the interior every seat has IFE! Thats a surprise, it has something even most 767 dont have! Great looking a/
28 OyKIE : The BR725 is 4DB quieter than the predecessor BR710 and a 21% improvement in NOx emission. The BR715 would make sense if Rekkof would opt for larger
29 A342 : I know that, but it's still an an engine optimized for long-range business jets, not regional jets. Hence why I said
30 TylerDurden : Kidding, right? Rekkof: Yesterday's Technology Available NEVER!
31 SWISSER : If you click on the investor relations, do you guys get anything out of that table they have there? They already know that in 2026 the market will dou
32 OyKIE : That might be a good point. But if the core would be better optimized for a larger fan and more thrust, why not go for a larger XF130? I thnik you mi
33 SKAirbus : Before KLM would have been a sure customer but now that it is controlled by Air France, it is the French that control fleet decisions, meaning there i
34 Post contains links and images OwlEye : DRIEBERGEN (the Netherlands) - For a long time it was silent around Rekkof Aircraft, the company which has the intention to restart the production of
35 SKAirbus : The F50 is a great aircraft but unfortunately it isn't a Dash 8... not particularly aesthetically pleasing! But for an airline the most important thin
36 OyKIE : I guess a turboprop in this size could be done. The F50 is a very economical plane to operate. The taildesign should change so that it can be more st
37 SKAirbus : Well that's because their gears didn't collapse every five minutes hehe... The F50s will probably be replaced eventually by CRJs...
38 OyKIE : In Norway as well? I thought they are all going to SAS Denmark. Would be nice though. But I guess that Wideroe will replace the F50 routes in Norway.
39 SKAirbus : Well SAS has options.. there is also the question of regional ops in Sweden.. . But yes i guess Widerøe will take over SAS Norways F50 routes eventua
40 LifelinerOne : Rekkof can't because they only bought the tooling for the Fokker 70 and 100. Another company has bought the Fokker 50/60 tooling, but I don't know wh
41 OyKIE : Just thinking out loud here. The old F70 and F100 had about 20 tonne payload. The 737 has about 30-35 tonne payload. With the F100 being that much lig
42 A342 : I think you mean useful load, which includes both fuel and passengers/cargo.
43 CJAContinental : Wow, thats a huge change, the sites way more professional than the old one, nice looking planes too. The range chart seems to be more impressive than
44 Art : 2% lower fuel burn is claimed. Any chance of the aircraft being competitive when Bombardier and Mitsubishi's GTF products become available?
45 DfwRevolution : Maybe yes, maybe no. When Boeing was still stumping the 717-200, the projected demand for 100-120 seat aircraft through 2030 was over 3,000 frames. A
46 CJAContinental : Didn't think of it that way, I see your point though. I suppose their are a lot of manufacturers proposing new aircraft in this sector like Mitsubish
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