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DL New Intl Routes With 77L?  
User currently offlineThe777Man From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 6645 posts, RR: 55
Posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 12385 times:

I read in a different post that DL are scheduled to get five or six 77Ls in the next six months and was wondering if they will open up any new routes or destinations with these ?

My guess would ATL-HKG and possibly fly ATL-JNB nonstop. I don't think they will start SYD but perhaps start codesharing with VA. Any ideas ?

The777Man


Need a Boeing 777 Firing Order....Further to fly....CI, MU, LX and LH 777s
142 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4955 posts, RR: 25
Reply 1, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 12353 times:
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Quoting The777Man (Thread starter):
My guess would ATL-HKG

The other thread also mentioned that ATL-HKG will not be in the immediate future.

Reply 17 of http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...eneral_aviation/read.main/4135791/


User currently offlineMCOAviationFan From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 247 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 12291 times:

The 777ER's wil be undergoing mods this winter to add 2 seats in BE and installing the lie flat seats as well. The new LR's will probably be covering the ER flying while the aircraft are rotated in for the mods. The delivery schedule for the LR's right now, barring any delivery delays due to the Boeing strike are as follows: 1 in Dec 08, 3 in Jan09, and 1 each in Feb 09 and Mar 09. We'lll probably see some routing announcements in October, when DL normally announces the spring flying for the coming season.

User currently offlineEvan767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2957 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 12292 times:

1. ATLBOM (confirmed)
2. ATLJNB
3. ATLLAXSYD 3x weekly

From here it's a tossup for me:
4. ATLDEL 4x weekly
5. ATLHKG

That's my guess.



The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
User currently offlineMCOAviationFan From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 247 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 12256 times:



Quoting Evan767 (Reply 3):
From here it's a tossup for me:
4. ATLDEL 4x weekly
5. ATLHKG

I think ATL-DEL is a longshot at this time because of the recent weakness in yields to India due to all the new flights. As Panamair mentioned above, reliable sources in the other thread indicate that HKG will probably not be coming on line anytime soon.

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 3):
1. ATLBOM (confirmed)
2. ATLJNB
3. ATLLAXSYD 3x weekly

The ATL-BOM will be flown with the 2 LR's which DL currently operates the JFK-BOM. JNB/CPT is a possibility, but that would probably mean some sort of change in the DKR schedule since the JFK and ATL flights connect there for through pax to JNB/CPT. SYD has been rumored on a.net for quite a while. Someone mentioned that either Anderson or Bastian had mentioned their desire to enter Australia in 09 or 10.


User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5349 posts, RR: 25
Reply 5, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 12225 times:



Quoting Evan767 (Reply 3):
ATLLAXSYD 3x weekly

If DL does indeed start SYD, the flight has to be daily if they are going to compete against QF, UA, and VAustralia.



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9672 posts, RR: 14
Reply 6, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 12197 times:



Quoting Evan767 (Reply 3):
1. ATLBOM (confirmed)

Already have the 777s for the route.

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 3):
2. ATLJNB

only if they can make it work.

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 3):
3. ATLLAXSYD 3x weekly

2010

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 3):
4. ATLDEL 4x weekly

Agree

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 3):
5. ATLHKG

Later.

Quoting MCOAviationFan (Reply 4):
Someone mentioned that either Anderson or Bastian had mentioned their desire to enter Australia in 09 or 10.

Glenn said SYD by 2010

Quoting OA412 (Reply 5):
If DL does indeed start SYD, the flight has to be daily if they are going to compete against QF, UA, and VAustralia.

Not likely. DL likes to start off new ULH routes like that with 3-4x weekly. (ICN,DXB)
Plus Someone posted a link that said DL was looking into ATL-LAX-SYD 3x weekly starting in 2010.  Wink

Or here are my guesses.
ATL-DXB
JFK-NRT (with 77E off of DXB)
ATL-KWI
ATL-GRU (77E from KWI)
ATL-DEL



yep.
User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8912 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 12158 times:



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 6):
ATL-GRU (77E from KWI)

I've heard many more rumours of this getting a 747-400 post-merger.

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 6):
JFK-NRT (with 77E off of DXB)

I've heard 787 post-merger would be a candidate here.

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 6):
Not likely. DL likes to start off new ULH routes like that with 3-4x weekly. (ICN,DXB)

ATL-ICN and ATL-DXB are very different creatures than LAX-SYD. ICN only has KE as competition (and DL code-shares on that flight, not to mention the two are partners) and DXB doesn't have a ton of competition from the United States currently. LAX-SYD is a much more competitive market than either of those two.


User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 8, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 12159 times:

ATL-SYD is really problematic... as much as A.netters would love to see it.

First off, yields would need to be substantially higher than the SFO and LAX-SYD flights because of the higher cost of fuel to fly the longer flight and the lower revenue from cargo.
That won't happen because almost none of the traffic will be O/D on the ATL side, almost all of it will be connecting, and that offers fairly little advantage over LAX or SFO. People talk about the great connectivity of ATL, but honestly, how many major US cities don't have non-stop service to LAX or SFO? Of the very few that don't, how many pax from there would pay substantially more to have 1 stop instead of 2? Not many, I'd wager.

If the new DL goes to Australia in 2010, I'm betting it is either from LAX or SEA... I'm betting SEA, personally. It looks like SEA is going to be the new DL gateway to the Pacific. While it isn't as close to Aus as SFO or LAX, it is way closer to all of east asia.



"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3216 posts, RR: 13
Reply 9, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 12137 times:

For those of you that think DL should do ATL-SYD, there is something else to consider: ETOPS restrictions.

Currently the standard ETOPS for all widebodies is ETOPS-180. However, the FAA will allow ETOPS-207 flights on a case by case basis, and the fleets must then be held to even higher maintenance standards and respective smaller IFS rates. For those of you who are interested, I believe the last-approved ETOPS-207 route was LAX-AKL for UA with 772ER.

Even with ETOPS-207, the routing for ATL-SYD would pass through an ETOPS no-go triangle. This can be avoided by changing the route flight path, but that's the last thing you want to do on a ULH route - adding miles, time, and more fuel.

So, in order to realistically have any hope of doing an ATL-SYD nonstop with 772LR, the FAA would have to approve ETOPS-240, or the even higher (and Boeing-advocated) ETOPS-330.


User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4955 posts, RR: 25
Reply 10, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 12093 times:
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Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 7):
Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 6):
JFK-NRT (with 77E off of DXB)

I've heard 787 post-merger would be a candidate here.

JFK-NRT is not going to wait around for the 787. It should start with the 777 soon.

[Edited 2008-09-07 15:05:33]

User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9672 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 12092 times:



Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 8):



Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 9):

Both of you guys make great point (plus the need for the 9,400nm model of the 77L which DL doesn't have) but i think everyone said ATL-LAX-SYD.

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 3):
. ATLLAXSYD



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 6):
ATL-LAX-SYD 3x weekly starting in 2010.



Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 7):
I've heard 787 post-merger would be a candidate here.

787 with out DL 777 with DL

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 7):
I've heard many more rumours of this getting a 747-400 post-merger.

Only seasonal. half the season ATL-FCO (winter in GRU) and ATL-GRU (summer in GRU)

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 7):
ATL-ICN and ATL-DXB are very different creatures than LAX-SYD. ICN only has KE as competition (and DL code-shares on that flight, not to mention the two are partners) and DXB doesn't have a ton of competition from the United States currently. LAX-SYD is a much more competitive market than either of those two.

This is true but IMO its wont matter if DL starts at 2x daily or 3x weekly due to the lack of DL or SkyTeam in Oz.



yep.
User currently offlineOOer From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1488 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 12078 times:

Ok, so here is what we know.

DL is receiving 1 77L by the end of the year, 2 in Jan, and 3 more by April.

So...we know that these birds will be used when the 77E gets fitted with the flat beds which should take no longer than a couple of weeks...no???

It is now September...DL should put these birds into service on their own routes by no later than late Feb...about 5 months away. Why no announcement yet??? The longer you announce a route before it actually starts the more time you have to actually start off on a good note!

Delta...if you are reading this....there are thousands of A.netters waiting for these announcements...give us a hint...give us something!!!


User currently offlineMCOAviationFan From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 247 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 12049 times:



Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 7):
I've heard many more rumours of this getting a 747-400 post-merger.

I have heard ATL-GRU and ATL-NRT as candidates for the 747-400 post merger.

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 6):
JFK-NRT (with 77E off of DXB

JFK-NRT will probably be flown with a 777ER, paired with a JFK-TLV 777ER using 3 aircraft. Some of the new LR's will probably fly ATL-PVG or DXB to free up the ER's. DL has a 777 pilot base at JFK and there has been no announcement of the base closure with BOM route moving to ATL. DL must have plans for the 777 at JFK.

I really do not see SYD being flown this early, but you never know what surprises Glen Hauenstein has up his sleeve. If it does begin, I would think the route would be from LAX with a 777ER. Perhaps a through flight ATL-LAX-SYD as mentioned above.


User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9672 posts, RR: 14
Reply 14, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 12010 times:



Quoting MCOAviationFan (Reply 13):
I would think the route would be from LAX with a 777ER. Perhaps a through flight ATL-LAX-SYD as mentioned above.

77L so it can carry alot of cargo.

Quoting MCOAviationFan (Reply 13):


JFK-NRT will probably be flown with a 777ER, paired with a JFK-TLV 777ER using 3 aircraft. Some of the new LR's will probably fly ATL-PVG or DXB to free up the ER's. DL has a 777 pilot base at JFK and there has been no announcement of the base closure with BOM route moving to ATL. DL must have plans for the 777 at JFK.

I can agree with that. I will say though it is likely that KWI will get a 77L also due to heat.



yep.
User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5349 posts, RR: 25
Reply 15, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 11950 times:



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 6):
Not likely. DL likes to start off new ULH routes like that with 3-4x weekly. (ICN,DXB)

Those routes are from ATL with little/no competition so DL feels comfortable starting them at less than daily. LAX-SYD is an entirely different beast and if DL is to succeed they must fly the route daily from the get-go.



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3216 posts, RR: 13
Reply 16, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 11945 times:



Quoting Panamair (Reply 10):
It should start with the 777 soon.

It will most likely start with a 777, you are correct. However, post-merger, the route may go to 787. I don't know if DL has said anything about 787 cabin configuration, but if they do it anything like NW, the 787 will be a very premium-heavy configured plane, and would do well on a route like JFK-NRT with sizable yields.

Quoting OOer (Reply 12):
...about 5 months away.

Airlines will announce routes up to about 3 months prior, so there is still time yet.

Quoting MCOAviationFan (Reply 13):
I have heard ATL-GRU and ATL-NRT as candidates for the 747-400 post merger.

You can almost be guaranteed that DTW-NRT and ATL-NRT will both operate with 744.

Quoting MCOAviationFan (Reply 13):
Perhaps a through flight ATL-LAX-SYD as mentioned above.

Here's another thought. Instead of rotating 777's on domestic flights, DL could change LAX-NRT to a 777. That way, they could rotate 777's into SYD via LAX, and those 777's coming from NRT, which could rotate all over the system. The catch would be.... what type 777 would you use?? LAX-NRT obviously does not need the range of the 772LR, but LAX-SYD might.

IIRC, Delta uprated all of their 772ER's to Trent 895, which could conceivably do LAX-SYD just fine, as they have the highest MGTOW rating as well as the highest thrust engines available on 772ER's.

So, that could definitely be a possibility. Have a 772ER operate SYD-LAX, and turn outbound LAX-NRT, while the NRT-LAX 772ER turns out on LAX-SYD.


User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9672 posts, RR: 14
Reply 17, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 11872 times:



Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 16):
It will most likely start with a 777, you are correct. However, post-merger, the route may go to 787. I don't know if DL has said anything about 787 cabin configuration, but if they do it anything like NW, the 787 will be a very premium-heavy configured plane, and would do well on a route like JFK-NRT with sizable yields.

With only 3 more C seats it will likely stay 777 as the 777 will have 28 more seats in Y. Also I'm not sure which BizE seat DL will put in the 787....the 767 seat or the 777 seat.

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 16):
You can almost be guaranteed that DTW-NRT and ATL-NRT will both operate with 744.



Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 16):
Here's another thought. Instead of rotating 777's on domestic flights, DL could change LAX-NRT to a 777. That way, they could rotate 777's into SYD via LAX, and those 777's coming from NRT, which could rotate all over the system. The catch would be.... what type 777 would you use?? LAX-NRT obviously does not need the range of the 772LR, but LAX-SYD might.

Maybe but not likely. Its much more likely they will have the 777 fly ATL-LAX-SYD like the use to do with the JFK-BOM flight.

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 16):
You can almost be guaranteed that DTW-NRT and ATL-NRT will both operate with 744.

If I was a betting man I would say ATL will go 2x daily with 1 744 and one 777 or 787.



yep.
User currently offlineMCOAviationFan From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 247 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 11849 times:



Quoting OOer (Reply 12):
DL is receiving 1 77L by the end of the year, 2 in Jan, and 3 more by April.

So...we know that these birds will be used when the 77E gets fitted with the flat beds which should take no longer than a couple of weeks...no???

The mod should actually take about a week or two per aircraft. They need to make a slight structural change to the forwardmost part of the BE cabin to fit two additional seats as well as the lie flat seats. Only 1 LR comes late Dec 09, so 2, maybe 3 aircraft can be modified in January. Late January, 3 more LR's are delivered and the rest of the ER fleet (6) can probably be retrofitted by the end of February, mid March. Whatever new routes to be flown will probably start with the spring schedule in late March, early April.

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 14):
77L so it can carry alot of cargo.

From what I understand, the 777ER can fly LAX-SYD even with cargo, so there really is no need to use an LR.

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 14):
I can agree with that. I will say though it is likely that KWI will get a 77L also due to heat.

The KWI-ATL segment is scheduled as a nighttime departure to arrive in ATL the following morning. Heat should not be a major issue with takeoff at night.

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 16):
Here's another thought. Instead of rotating 777's on domestic flights, DL could change LAX-NRT to a 777. That way, they could rotate 777's into SYD via LAX, and those 777's coming from NRT, which could rotate all over the system.



Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 16):
So, that could definitely be a possibility. Have a 772ER operate SYD-LAX, and turn outbound LAX-NRT, while the NRT-LAX 772ER turns out on LAX-SYD.

This is a very interesting possibility. The times match up as a NRT-LAX flight would arrive mid afternoon and the SYD departure would probably be at night. On the return, the SYD-LAX would arrive mid morning and a LAX-NRT departure would be early afternoon. This would negate the ability to market the flight as a through flight from ATL, but they could always use the same flight number ATL-LAX-SYD with a scheduled plane change in LAX.


User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9672 posts, RR: 14
Reply 19, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 11829 times:



Quoting MCOAviationFan (Reply 18):
From what I understand, the 777ER can fly LAX-SYD even with cargo, so there really is no need to use an LR.

I though that the 77L has more cargo room. Could be wrong though.

Quoting MCOAviationFan (Reply 18):
The KWI-ATL segment is scheduled as a nighttime departure to arrive in ATL the following morning. Heat should not be a major issue with takeoff at night.

Never mind then



yep.
User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3216 posts, RR: 13
Reply 20, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 11784 times:



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 17):
If I was a betting man I would say ATL will go 2x daily with 1 744 and one 777 or 787.

This will rely 100% on what DL does with NW's NRT hub. If DL continues to use NRT as a through-hub, instead of changing all routes to nonstop via SEA, LAX, ATL, DTW, etc, all flights into NRT will most likely turn out to "south" destinations: ICN, SIN, MNL, BKK, etc.

This works especially well for aircraft rotations and utilization, and would allow NW/DL ideal timings for all their flights.

So, the question is, if you had 2x daily ATL-NRT, one on a 744 and one on a 777/787, would both of them turn to south destinations, or would one of them turn south and one of them turn back to the US?? If you have them turn back to the US, there is then a question of aircraft utilization and rotations. What I mean is, an approx figure for ATL-NRT is 14:00 blocktime, and NRT-ATL at 13:00 blocktime. I know this varies per season, by plane, and all number of things, but let's just use those numbers. Plus, we'll need about a 2 hour turn time in both ATL and NRT, so that brings the time up to 31 hours per day.... which obviously isn't possible.

So, you'd need to work out a rather bizarre aircraft rotation for that to work. Or, you could just have low aircraft utilization and RON the 787's in NRT, which is definitely a possibility - exactly what AA does with some of their 777's to NRT.

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 19):
I though that the 77L has more cargo room. Could be wrong though.

In some cases it actually has less, if you get all the available center aux tanks. From what I understand though, DL doesn't have any of these (currently) on their 772LR's.


User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4760 posts, RR: 44
Reply 21, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 11716 times:

As other's have said, some of the 77Ls will back-fill 77E a/c that will get refit with new interiors.

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 7):
I've heard many more rumours of this getting a 747-400 post-merger.

Under consideration.

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 6):
JFK-NRT (with 77E off of DXB)

JFK-NRT is a smart bet. The plane is a question tho.

Quoting Panamair (Reply 10):
JFK-NRT is not going to wait around for the 787. It should start with the 777 soon.

They won't wait for the 787, that's for sure  Wink

Quoting MCOAviationFan (Reply 13):
I have heard ATL-GRU and ATL-NRT as candidates for the 747-400 post merger.

Sounds pretty reasonable.

Quoting MCOAviationFan (Reply 13):
JFK-NRT will probably be flown with a 777ER, paired with a JFK-TLV 777ER using 3 aircraft.

Makes sense from a rotational perspective. The big question, as said above is, what will it be?



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineOa412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5349 posts, RR: 25
Reply 22, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 11694 times:



Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 21):
Makes sense from a rotational perspective. The big question, as said above is, what will it be?

You wouldn't possibly be hinting at the long rumored addition of 77W's to the fleet would you?  Wink



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineFlynavy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 11639 times:



Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 21):
As other's have said, some of the 77Ls will back-fill 77E a/c that will get refit with new interiors.

The refit doesn't take a year. It takes a month or two for all aircraft. There WILL be an announcement in the near future...


User currently offlineMCOAviationFan From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 247 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 11637 times:



Quoting Oa412 (Reply 22):
Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 21):
Makes sense from a rotational perspective. The big question, as said above is, what will it be?

You wouldn't possibly be hinting at the long rumored addition of 77W's to the fleet would you?

That or DL could consider a 747-400 for the route, although I see the 777ER as the best option. Alitalia744 has excellent insight into the workings of DL, so I would not bet against him, though.

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 21):
Quoting MCOAviationFan (Reply 13):
JFK-NRT will probably be flown with a 777ER, paired with a JFK-TLV 777ER using 3 aircraft.

Makes sense from a rotational perspective. The big question, as said above is, what will it be?

Do you think it possible that DL would use a 747-400 on JFK-TLV?


25 OOer : ATL-DXB is about 500 miles longer than ATL-KWI and operates just fine, I see no reason that ATL-KWI would require a 77L!
26 MCOAviationFan : I think he was referring to what I had posted earlier, that initially the LR's would sub for the retrofit of the ER fleet. After that, the new routes
27 MCOAviationFan : Exactly!
28 MaverickM11 : If there's a free 744 it'd be a good place for it. That said, people on here have the 744 fleet going to a dozen new places while maintaining the cur
29 Transpac787 : That would be the most massive upguage possible, so unlikely. To go from 763, pass 332, pass 772ER, to 744?? While the A332 has very little to no ran
30 Post contains images B777ER : If I was a betting man , I would put money on Vietnam with the 77L and NRT-JFK with the 77E. Australia or HKG with the 77L as well.  [Edited 2008-09-
31 Transpac787 : Current US-Vietnam bilateral only allows for one US carrier to one destination in Vietnam - UA to SGN. For quite some time now NW has been wanting to
32 MCOAviationFan : That's what I thought, although when Alitalia744 alluded to the fact that the aircraft on JFK-NRT was still under consideration and a rotation of NRT
33 LAXdude1023 : Where on earth would they serve Veitnam from? Not to mention: Also reliable sources say no to HKG right now.
34 DeltaL1011man : It is. It will be a really big factor it the Boeing people stay on strike for a few weeks which will back the DL 777s up. what MTOW does NW's 744s ha
35 Flynavy : Delhi. Johannesburg. Hong Kong.
36 LAXdude1023 : But what viable gateway would the DL/NW have into SGN or HAN? It would have to be NRT, but they wouldnt use a 77L for that. The only place in the USA
37 DeltaL1011man : It would have to be LAX or maybe they could do something like ATL-HKG-SGN with the 777(like UA does now) or route it Via NRT. BTW Happy a.net b-day L
38 Lambert747 : VFR, Business, Tourism No the HKG-ATL. Don't be so quick to write off KIX or NGO to HKG. We could in the interim see a new service routed ATL-KIX-HKG
39 DeltaL1011man : I have heard LAX-HKG might get a try with a 777 or SEA-HKG
40 Lambert747 : Isn't SEA-HKG possible with the A332? LAX-HKG would be interesting, if started I could see it routed as a through service from ATL-LAX-HKG with the 7
41 DeltaL1011man : SEA-HKG is 5,600nm(from GCM) and the A332 has 6,700nm(Per Airbus) so yes but I do not think NW's A332s have the highest MTOW so I would think DL will
42 Transpac787 : 870,000#, Max Taxi Weight 873,000#. Given their current cabin configuration of 65J/338Y and typical cargo loads, 14.5 hours is about the max duration
43 DeltaL1011man : dam nice call.....try NRT and TLV from ATL. but UA did use the 744 so maybe if DL went with the 777 it would have a better chance. yea that was dumb
44 The777Man : Thanks for all the replies alhtough some are a bit off topic dealing with switching aircraft on current routes. It looks like any new route won't star
45 MaverickM11 : Except the two don't coincide at all. Oh sweet liberty why not just set fire to a pile of money instead I believe there is more Vietnamese traffic on
46 RwSEA : SEA-SGN would be a good route for the 787. I flew SEA-ICN-HAN last week, and it seems like half the SEA-ICN flight (on OZ) was continuing to SGN. SEA
47 United1 : Unfortunately they would need to renegotiate the bilateral in several places to allow that, besides the already mentioned point about only one US car
48 Kaitak744 : So, this is DL's current 777 utilization: 777-200ER: ATL-NRT-ATL ATL-TLV-ATL ATL-DXB-ATL ATL-PVG-ATL ATL-KWI-ATL (3x weekly) ATL-ICN-ATL (4x weekly) 2
49 Transpac787 : No way you'd want to run your smallest Pacific fleet type on NRT-HKG. Besides, ATL-NRT-ATL is an impossible aircraft rotation, it would require two 7
50 RwSEA : Well I agree that it will be cut, but I disagree that people would prefer to connect in ATL. Especially for pax on the west coast, AMS is a much more
51 NewYorkCityBoi : I dont think NW has these routes?
52 Transpac787 : Both will be started in March, I believe. DTW-PVG was slated to be operated with a 787, but given their delays (ughhhh) it will operate with a 747-40
53 DeltaL1011man : Mav. If we listen to you DL is already burning money on ATL-ICN,PVG,BOM,DKR and JFK-DKR-CPT. Plus Sky is trying to get VN to join and if they do that
54 Gigneil : They are the highest MTOW available, but.... ...don't have the perfect engines. They're fitted with PW4168As, which are a little less than 68,000 pou
55 MaverickM11 : Don't forget EZEJFK
56 Evan767 : About the Sydney flights: The flight would probably be ATL-LAX-SYD, but there will probably be a change of equipment in LAX. Therefore, increasing tho
57 OA412 : They're burning money on a route they don't yet fly?
58 DeltaL1011man : not likely at first when the open a second 777 route out of LAX then it will likely happen but till then they will route it ATL-LAX-SYD 777 all the w
59 MaverickM11 : Well they don't fly ATLBOM yet either and we all know I feel about that one too... Are they adding a flights back to LAX or are they just going to wr
60 OOer : Please remember that DL does not have a 777 base at LAX. So to operate a single 777 flight from LAX they would need to deadhead 4 pilots every single
61 DeltaL1011man : This is true. they will be wrestling.......should we add this one to your list?
62 Jetlanta : He can't help himself.
63 Nwaflyer : And remember they do not have the 747 in ATL. You will need to do the same if you choose to fly the 747 out of ATL. I am not saying they wont, but is
64 Transpac787 : If it were to happen, it would most likely be a downguage from 744 to 777, not an additional flight.
65 Nwaflyer : That is not what I read earlier. DL should start a 777 DL flight LAX to NRT. And where will they get the slot from? NW? From what I read is who owns
66 Transpac787 : Keep in mind that a lot of what people say are based heavily on their own hopes and dreams for a DL route network. Like I said.... all of this is spe
67 DeltaL1011man : It would be after the merger. Also it is likely to stay 747 as long as it is 1x daily. Ugh give it a rest man If it happens its most likely a extra f
68 Transpac787 : It's not 200 seats, but it's possible. If the 744's could be better used elsewhere, a downguage could be an effective yield-management tactic. I woul
69 Panamair : Of course they do. That's one of the key reasons behind this merger. That's absolutely correct. There are only a handful of people on a.net who actua
70 Panamair : It would all depend on what kind of traffic those extra 200 seats have been/are filled with... as you said, if removing those could improve yields qu
71 The777Man : Switching LAX-NRT to a 777 will inprove yield and together with a LAX-SYD on a 777 be enoguh flights for a 777 crew base. Thru in a 777 LAX-ATL as wel
72 Transpac787 : If both LAX-NRT and the theoretical LAX-SYD were 777's, you wouldn't need a LAX-ATL rotation for the 777's as they could be rotated to NRT on NRT-ATL
73 DeltaL1011man : its close more like 150 seats If that many. second that. You would need to send her to Atlanta for MX. AFAIK ATL is the only place that can do 777 wo
74 Rwy04LGA : If enough people though the way nwaflyer does, we would. We need to do the best we can to make this merger work and win nwaflyer and others like him
75 Lambert747 : That means nothing, absolutely nothing. They do have the 747 at NRT, so in that instance it is easy to see a routing that originates in NRT as a ATL
76 DeltAirlines : Well, as a new resident of Minnesota (and one that lives 15 minutes away from it right down Old Shakopee Rd), I will support any politician running t
77 Bobnwa : Please tell us how NW/DL have cost you one penny with anything they have done yet? I will second that, and don't forget the other A.net member who ha
78 DeltaL1011man : Good to see you haven't gotten a life yet....... And BTW never said they would miss me. And If they put a 744 on ATL-NRT? Also re want Lambert said.
79 Post contains links Concordski : Seems DL is really interested in SYD which I guess has already been established but here's the story. Specifically mentioned is "east coast" which cou
80 DeltaL1011man : and soon NBO This has already been talked about. To get JFK-SYD to even work you would need to add almost 1,000nm of range. Not very likely. To get A
81 Nwaflyer : Key word YET!!! I love drama. I also like action and comedy. And yes a staple of MN (I only speak for Minnesotans) and a company that we help through
82 DeltaL1011man : DL/US=dumb Merger DL/NW=smart merger get it? Oh they all going to stop flying too? Who said that? I only see people saying SEA will get larger not sm
83 Lambert747 : Per the rumor mill regarding DL and Sydney: ATL-LAX-SYD or ATL-AKL-SYD Neither has been confirmed both have and are being discussed both in this forum
84 DeltaL1011man : I have heard talk of a MEL tag or LAX-MEL along with SYD.
85 Rwy04LGA : Make JFK-SYD a 77L with all B/E. It would be much lighter, holding less people, luggage, and comissary. Overflying SAN to avoid Mexican airspace adds
86 Lambert747 : It isnt as if DL were to offer an all Business Elite cabin on the 777 it would defeat the purpose of the route and instead gamble heavy that they cou
87 DeltaL1011man : With Black gold so high I have to agree. If/When oil comes down some more I think it might be worth a try.
88 Nwaflyer : You take it out of context my friend. Most DL employees and travelers were clammering about this one. Same as me with NW and DL. Get it. Who ever sai
89 Transpac787 : One can only hope!! Ughhh.... here we go again. So by being discussed on other forums - in addition to here - they must be more legitimate?? And by p
90 Panamair : You have already made it quite clear that no matter what DLNW does, you will not give them a chance. In that case, why should they expend more energy
91 Bobnwa : Why don't you hold your displeasure until something does happen? So are you coming around the liking the merger regardless of the Airbus issue? does
92 DeltaL1011man : No still don't like the merger to much. Never said the merger was stupid just don't like it. All the Talk of how great DL will be is making me hate i
93 Post contains links Jetlanta : How old were you then? Seriously, you are way too negative on this. Pan Am was a MESS. NW is nothing like PA and the deal is nothing like that deal.
94 DeltaL1011man : Fine I'll go with that. DL/WA was a great merger and 15 years later DL was in BK. I would say that DL could be safe alone. This is as long as fuel ke
95 WorldTraveler : lower fuel prices only provide a window.... industry trends remain unchanged. Foreign global players are getting larger and stronger. US airlines hav
96 Transpac787 : "Key transpac routes"?? Don't disillusion yourself. SFO-NGO: Consistent low load factors SFO-TPE: Now routed on NRT-TPE LAX-HKG: Consistent low load
97 Nwaflyer : Why would you argue with me yesterday and now post the same thing that I did? I, just for the fun of it went to this Global Airline site. What a piec
98 DeltaL1011man : That would be when they order more planes and build it all alone. Again If merging is so big then the others would do so. BTW just because DL/NW merg
99 Nwaflyer : There it is my friend. I have one question. Why is it people only challenge me on items that are easy. I also posted the US/DL merger and not a word.
100 OA412 : You do remember that DL was the most profitable airline in the world during the late 90's and they were one of the, if not the, best positioned airli
101 DeltaL1011man : I already told you how I feel about it. So long as they don't take any Atlanta jobs I have very few b**tchs about it. Name or State money I don't car
102 WorldTraveler : of course you would discount the importance of these routes because they didn't succeed. Every route involving a widebody transoceanic flight is a ma
103 Transpac787 : So in using this same logic, then you'd agree to the following: DL's ATL-PVG route is not succeeding as well, given the fact that they're reducing it
104 B777ER : DL ops 1 flt a day on a 777 out of JFK and they have a 777JFK base for pilots. IIRC, DL flights over 16hrs require 3 full crews, 12hrs require 2 full
105 DeltaL1011man : I missed it what are you talking about? Hold on You forgot the other route cuts/reductions/delays. (ORD-PEK,EWR-PEK/PVG,PHL-PEK IAD-PEK) Also note OR
106 WorldTraveler : DL isn't discontinuing ANY transpac routes. And so far DL is one of a large group of US airlines that have reduced or delayed service to China. If wh
107 OOer : Not sure about this one.
108 Transpac787 : No, he's correct. And it's not DL flights over 16 hours, it's all US Flag Carrier flights over 16 hours require 3 crews, as per the FAR's. To expand
109 OOer : Thats good to know. I'll find out about the 5 or 6 pilot crew tomorrow... Also, in the case of LAX, the routes in question would not be blocked at ov
110 WorldTraveler : this is not correct. DL's JFK-BOM flight is consistently blocked over 16 hrs and DL has an agreement with DALPA and the FAA to operate the flight with
111 United1 : Per dl.com JFK-BOM is 15.45h and BOM-JFK is 16h gate-gate this week at least, looks like they just squeak by without a third set of crewmembers.
112 Airlinespotter : Oh please stick with facts instead of speculations.
113 Transpac787 : I am not the guy to ask to quote FAR's, but there are loopholes. However, this does not mean the loophole exploitation by DL is some agreement with t
114 RwSEA : Delta has cut 17% of their transpacific schedule. (A decrease from 18 weekly flights to 15). United has cut 17% of their transpacific schedule (A dec
115 WorldTraveler : your little exercise is interesting but airlines measure capacity based on ASMs (and I haven't even verified if your facts are correct). Given that U
116 Transpac787 : This spin is almost on par with one by Carl Rove. I suppose it's easy to double your transpac capacity when it was almost totally nonexistent to begi
117 WorldTraveler : yes, DL is currently the smallest transpac operator but the fact is that they have doubled their capacity year over year. In just about 2 months, DL
118 DeltaL1011man : And its also easy for RwSEA to make it look like DL has cut as much as UA when he and every else knows that if you cut 3 weekly flights when you only
119 Nwaflyer : Are they the smallest? I wouldnt knnow. The only reaseon they will be they biggest is becasue NW sold out. Delta would not be reducing the ATL flight
120 AirNZ : What exactly is your immense fascination with 'size' and 'largest'? Are you seriously trying to say that DL will compete on quality with the likes of
121 Jetlanta : Not to presume to speak for WT, but just watch. The merger is only part of the long-term strategy.
122 Nwaflyer : I personally agree they could not do it on their own. That is why the need NW. I also think it should not happen. I also believe that it is collussio
123 OOer : Ever heard of Greyhound? Not everyone is supposed to fly, flying is a luxury!
124 DeltaL1011man : and I personally don't think you know that they are talking about. DL has the aircraft option to have a large Asia network with the next 3 years (27
125 Nwaflyer : Flying is no loner a luxury. It is a way of life in the US. Sun Country is not a typical LLC. They are more leave the cold to warm carrier. So you ar
126 DeltaL1011man : are they an LCC? yes so its better than Nothing. Plus MSP should do a better job at getting an LCC. If MSP is the goldmine you say it is all MN has t
127 RwSEA : The point was to call into question another one of WT's tired assertions that because other airlines are cutting capacity, somehow DL is doing things
128 Nwaflyer : No offense, but that is why MSP is a GOLDMINE!!! There is virtually no competition. A flight from ORD,PHX, LAX, CLE, HOU, and the other hubs. That is
129 DeltaL1011man : No they have not. You need to look at ASMs and weekly flights. If UA cuts 7 weekly flights on a 744 and downgrades 2 weekly flights from a 744 to a 7
130 Transpac787 : And 9/11 happened very shortly after, along with the subsequent recession, especially felt in the airline industry. Exactly. Let's hope the local DL
131 Nwaflyer : There was no recession. The airlines (unfortunate they were the weapon) did not adjust. It is most certainly not completely thier fault since the gov
132 DeltaL1011man : No recession? What do you call it? DL went from making Billions (1999's most profitable airline) to BK by 2004 what do you think caused this? Also if
133 Transpac787 : Oil prices, for one. While the prices in those days are WAYYYY cheaper by today's standards, it's all relative, really. To go from something like $19
134 Nwaflyer : There was not a recession. What happened is the airlines (not DL or NW specific) did not change with the market. What should have happened much soone
135 WorldTraveler : yes, we know your beef. But companies need to go away merger or not. The reality is that DL and NW have posted above average financial performance si
136 Nwaflyer : And we know you stance. So if they are both doing so well why merge (the reason was oil)? If they are both doing as well as you say and they combine
137 DeltaL1011man : read below quote re-read my quote. DL wants NW for what they can and will do but its gets done much faster. They only real "jewel" that NW has that i
138 Panamair : This has been rehashed countless times already on multiple threads. Because they could be doing EVEN BETTER as a combined entity than separately. Oil
139 Bobnwa : How old were you right after 9/11, that you remember the ecomomy going into the crapper? By the way, not a very adult choice of words, The airline bu
140 WorldTraveler : In addition to Panamair's great response, they can merge because IT IS LEGAL for them to do so. Strengthening the business by acquiring is absolutely
141 Viscount724 : But I would hazard a guess that CX's average yield is higher than UA's, especially in the premium cabins. It's more than just amenities and technolog
142 MPDPilot : This is a rather contradictory statement that I just had to point out. First you say that if a company can't survive then they need to go away. DL an
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