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Horizon On SMF-SBA  
User currently offlineSuperDash From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 574 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2649 times:

Alaskaair.com is showing Horizon starting Sacramento-Santa Barbara service around Nov 9. It looks like the nonstop to Portland from Santa Barbara will now operate via Sacramento. Seattle now has a midday schedule as opposed to the early morning down and late afternoon up. Looks like the new service will be with the CRJ-700. I would guess ExpressJet must have had something going on there.

23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5400 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2628 times:

Very interesting. I can't imagine that SMF-SBA was the most successful of the former XE routes but perhaps it was an easy one to integrate into existing QX schedules or maybe there were incentives offered by some big players in SMF (who REALLY wanted to be able to fly n/s to the coast!) Or possibly the PDX-SBA service was under-performing and they decided to try something rather than just cut it.

In any case, I hope this is just a first step for Horizon to start flying additional routes that XE showed as having potential...  scratchchin 

bb


User currently offlineLambert747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2624 times:



Quoting SuperDash (Thread starter):
Alaskaair.com is showing Horizon starting Sacramento-Santa Barbara service around Nov 9. It looks like the nonstop to Portland from Santa Barbara will now operate via Sacramento. Seattle now has a midday schedule as opposed to the early morning down and late afternoon up. Looks like the new service will be with the CRJ-700. I would guess ExpressJet must have had something going on there.

It would no be a surprise to see SMF-FAT or SMF-BFL added in the near future as well.


User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5799 posts, RR: 15
Reply 3, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2518 times:

I'm seeing it operating as twice daily SBA-SMF, looks like SBA gets an additional frequency and connections at SMF out of the deal.
AS2630~ SBA 0700 SMF 0815 CR7 1h15m
AS2632~ SBA 1700 SMF 1815 CR7 1h15m



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5893 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2509 times:
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Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 3):
I'm seeing it operating as twice daily SBA-SMF, looks like SBA gets an additional frequency and connections at SMF out of the deal.
AS2630~ SBA 0700 SMF 0815 CR7 1h15m
AS2632~ SBA 1700 SMF 1815 CR7 1h15m

Good luck to QX for this route. It was quite surprising to me considering all the other options QX has around the west coast. I'm sure the SMF-SBA route will end up being Q400's before too long.

Quoting Lambert747 (Reply 2):
It would no be a surprise to see SMF-FAT or SMF-BFL added in the near future as well.

It wouldn't be a surprise to me either. I'm still waiting for QX to start flying to MRY to either LAX or the Pacific Northwest.


User currently offlineASFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1169 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2472 times:



Quoting Lambert747 (Reply 2):
It would no be a surprise to see SMF-FAT or SMF-BFL added in the near future as well.

I wouldn't hold my breath. Unless there are significant subsidies involved, I doubt Horizon will be doing a whole lot more local service from SMF.


User currently offlineLambert747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2455 times:



Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 5):
I wouldn't hold my breath. Unless there are significant subsidies involved, I doubt Horizon will be doing a whole lot more local service from SMF.

One never knows. SMF has done well for AS and QX, a lot better than most would have thought of the SMF market. Today and as mentioned SMF has the following markets with AS and QX:

BOI
PDX
PSP
SBA*
SEA
SJC

Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 4):
It wouldn't be a surprise to me either. I'm still waiting for QX to start flying to MRY to either LAX or the Pacific Northwest.

There is demand for more intra-Calfiornia service from any airline that will offer SMF is a market that serves nearly 2.5 million people and is the seat of the states government. I would not rule out markets such as SMF-MRY, SBP, BFL, and FAT on QX. However if QX can in some way gain contracts that will guarantee service, I see no reason why such routes could not be flown.


User currently offlineFlyboy7974 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 1540 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2395 times:

I highly doubt that we will ever see QX on either the SMF-FAT or SMF-BFL routes. First of all, we're talking of a station opening to fulfill the BFL service and my understanding is that the FAT service is doing fine with the QX flights already being operated. I think QX would take a hit if they started routing FAT pax through SMF to get into their PDX/SEA hubs because then the uncontested nonstop flight options would be no better then other one stop options offered on competitor airlines.

Whereas in the past 5 to 10 to 15 years, such routes were possible because commuter airlines offered service on 19 to 30 passenger aircraft, mainly Skywest with their Metroliners and Brasilias, I highly doubt we'd see Horizon jump in on markets with such thin O&D when soon their only aircraft will be the 76 passenger Q400. Pax figures may sustain a daily flight, but pax preference then sets the desire to have more flight options through the day and on those routes, meeting demands of the business traveler requires early out late day returns and thus, usually at least two flights a day M-F.

Unique to the SBA route was that ExpressJet did do relatively well on this segment, well enough that the market started to develop and mature and pax figures were increasing month over month. Sometime ago, this is what led city officials, and I think there even was a post here on A.net, but SBA officials sent out a request for service to fill the void once ExpressJet ceased operations. They wanted to show that SBA had the need and pax demand for the nonstop SMF service and one stop routings through LAX, LAS and SFO were not feasible due to the amount of time lost enroute.

Back to BFL, my only thought to make this work is I'm wondering if BFL applied for and was granted any SCASD funds? Receiving such grants might then encourage BFL to to approach QX and subsidized the airline to try the route.

As for QX, tomorrow is the kickoff of their new PRC-LAX flights. Monday only, the flight will operate off the FLG afternoon nonstop to allow for the airport kickoff festivites, but TUES and from then on, the nonstop will then be an intermediate stop to the previous morning FLG-LAX flight.

http://www.dcourier.com/main.asp?Sec...onID=1&ArticleID=58958&TM=14657.08

Let's see if that link works to the local paper's Saturday clip on the service. Ironically, not mentioned much at all, Monday also marks the start of Great Lakes return to PRC and they will be offering twice daily PRC-ONT and PRC-PHX service to fulfill their EAS contract.


User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5893 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 2342 times:
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Is possible to see QX reinstate SMF-GEG service? I think SMF has a lot of potential and perhaps QX is finally willing to tap a little more into that market.

I've always been hoping that QX would open more California markets, especially those that include SCK, BFL, SBP, MOD or VIS.


User currently offlineFlyboy7974 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 1540 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2297 times:

Well, today is their new LAX-PRC-FLG service, they've also announced winter flights into MMH to handle the ski traffic, and I think that flight is once daily. That's all in addition to their CR7 pulldown, Dash8-200 eliminations, and redistributing flights accordingly with the Dash8-400 to meet pax demand. Although previously announced as discontinued, I did just notice on Friday that QX had gone back to rebid for the Pendleton EAS service, so that might be another news clip here soon.

I think the SBA-SMF route has potential and especially if offered by an airline such as Horizon and their excellent overall product. It surprised me how much AS/QX really put into pushing the recently added service between SMF-SJC which was the result of cancelling nonstops from both of those cities northward, combining the flights, and thus offering nonstop/direct round-robin flight routings between destinations to still meet the customer demand that had been built. I never thought there was that much of a market for flights SMF-bay area other then traffic feed to the hubs.

Too bad we can't go back and pull the numbers or see the O&D figures for when Sierra Expressway offered such flights on their J31 a/c and using their OAK base as a hub, offered flights to SMF, RDD, ACV, MFR, TVL, MRY, and also a p2p SMF-MRY flight. They aimed to offer high frequency low fare flights to bring pax to the bay area, but also to the OAK fortress that SWA was building and hoping pax would connect from smaller cities through OAK into other low fare airlines.


User currently offlineHatbutton From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1500 posts, RR: 14
Reply 10, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2256 times:



Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 8):
Is possible to see QX reinstate SMF-GEG service? I think SMF has a lot of potential and perhaps QX is finally willing to tap a little more into that market.

I don't know about that one. From the numbers I've seen and hearing from QX colleagues, that route had near the worst pax loads in their system. Sounds good on paper though.


User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5893 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2250 times:
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Quoting Flyboy7974 (Reply 9):
Too bad we can't go back and pull the numbers or see the O&D figures for when Sierra Expressway offered such flights on their J31 a/c and using their OAK base as a hub, offered flights to SMF, RDD, ACV, MFR, TVL, MRY, and also a p2p SMF-MRY flight. They aimed to offer high frequency low fare flights to bring pax to the bay area, but also to the OAK fortress that SWA was building and hoping pax would connect from smaller cities through OAK into other low fare airlines.

I actually flew on Sierra Expressway from OAK-MFR RT. The two flights I flew on were full. They flew another p2p routing of MFR-ACV, which actually looked like it did fairly well.


User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5799 posts, RR: 15
Reply 12, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2243 times:

Among the former XJet routes it was FAT-SAN that was among the best, it was at 3X per day. IF (not that they are) QX was looking for intraCalifornia routes to add that would make more sense than FAT-SMF or BFL-SMF.

Under XJet, BFL-SMF was getting about a 45% load factor. Too low for that to ever have much hope on someone else in my mind.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineCoronado990 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1597 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2216 times:



Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 12):
Under XJet, BFL-SMF was getting about a 45% load factor. Too low for that to ever have much hope on someone else in my mind.

Maybe tying in BFL by extending a couple of segments southward from SMF-SJC would help fill up the plane in of this weaker market. BFL would then have service from both SMF and SJC.



Uncle SAN at your service!
User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2211 times:

BFL, despite its location, simply cannot hold onto much service. It was doing well with the opening of the William Thomas Terminal, but the rise in fuel costs has devastated its service levels once again.

The demand for business travel simply isn't there. It's too convenient to fly into LAX or BUR and rent a car unless you're a UA flyer, in which case UA Express has three flights a day to SFO and LAX to connect you with other flights.

Amtrak is doing quite well in the central valley with six San Joaquin trains a day, four to the bay area (with bus connections to Sacramento), and two to Sacramento (with bus connections to the bay area).

As for ExpressJet's BFL-SMF service, it was slowly catching on, but again fuel costs killed it.

The likelihood of Horizon starting BFL service at the moment is probably nil. The costs of opening a new station coupled with the current fuel prices and lack of decent load factors makes BFL, sadly, a black hole in the center of California.



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineASMD11 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 110 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2004 times:



Quoting Hatbutton (Reply 10):

I don't know about that one. From the numbers I've seen and hearing from QX colleagues, that route had near the worst pax loads in their system. Sounds good on paper though.

The loads were pretty bad in the winter and the fall. But once late spring came around and during the summer it was usually full. A seasonal route at best. But it didn't have the worst pax loads in the system. SEA-YXS on the other hand.....


User currently offlineApollo13 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1997 times:

Im suprised that Horizon hasnt flown into MRY yet. (unless im mistaken, i havent been to the area since April). The whole area is very popular with people looking to get away for the weekend and even a week. If i were one living in Monterey, I would find it very enticing to have a direct flight to either Seattle or Portland from Monterey rather than drive to SJC or SFO or take a connecting flight on one of the other carriers.

Does anyone have any information if this will happen in the near future?


User currently offlineBoston92 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3390 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 1964 times:

Huh...Only took 'em two months:

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...general_aviation/read.main/4063919



"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
User currently offlineOsprey88 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 330 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 1954 times:

Quoting Apollo13 (Reply 16):
Im suprised that Horizon hasnt flown into MRY yet. (unless im mistaken, i havent been to the area since April). The whole area is very popular with people looking to get away for the weekend and even a week. If i were one living in Monterey, I would find it very enticing to have a direct flight to either Seattle or Portland from Monterey rather than drive to SJC or SFO or take a connecting flight on one of the other carriers.

Does anyone have any information if this will happen in the near future?

We have quite a proactive airport authority in here in MRY, and with the loss of the Xjet service, which did quite well load wise to LGB and SAN (not so much to ONT), I certainly hope they are looking at QX service, probably to PDX, as MRY-SEA on a Q400 would be a bit of a slog I suppose.

I would love to see QX pick up on some of XE's old routes that they could make work with a more fuel efficient Q400, but I could only see them doing a few, mostly FAT-SAN, FAT-LGB. I can't help but wonder as I look at the DOT information for some of XE's routes over the past year if QX could pull off profitability on BFL-SMF or BFL-SAN with a 37 seat Q200, or some other shorthaul or intra-California XE routes with a 37 seat turboprop aircraft (Q200s)...That is, if they did not decide to get rid of them...

[Edited 2008-09-08 23:44:35]


"Reading departure signs in some big airports reminds me of the places I've been"
User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5893 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 1898 times:
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I think MRY could be a very good candidate for flights to both LAX and SEA/PDX. SEA wouldn't be too much longer than the STS-SEA flights. I think the short hop of SMF-MRY could probably work fine as well.

QX has mentioned that they would only have to fill 30 to 40% of the Q400 seats to be profitable. However, that was before the oil prices soared.

I'm sure QX has many other destinations and routings in their shortlist. We could only wish that MRY is not too far down that list.


User currently offlineHatbutton From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1500 posts, RR: 14
Reply 20, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1857 times:



Quoting ASMD11 (Reply 15):
The loads were pretty bad in the winter and the fall. But once late spring came around and during the summer it was usually full. A seasonal route at best. But it didn't have the worst pax loads in the system. SEA-YXS on the other hand.....

Yeah so it should be seasonal at best, but if you average out the LFs year round then the loads were horrible. SEA-YXS hasn't even had a year to fully operate and that route is subsidized anyways if loads don't turn out as hoped. SMF-GEG is not subsidized therefore, regardless of it not being maybe the truly lowest LF, it never had enough to make money.

However, maybe a Q400 would make the break-even on that route fall? Maybe they'll start it back up if they ever think about using it.


User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6121 posts, RR: 23
Reply 21, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1830 times:



Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 19):

STS-SEA 2 hr 10 min
LAX-BOI 2 hr 20 min
LAX-RDM 2 hr 25 min

So your correct that MRY-SEA would not me difficult. I have not heard the lastest shortlist, but its not very long from what I have been told by QX pilots. Take that for what it's worth. With the filling in of CRJ routes the Q's will be a little thin.

I to hope to see MRY service

ASSFO



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5893 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1780 times:
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It's too bad that another airline wouldn't be able to fly out ot CCR (Concord, CA). I don't know if airlines are allowed to fly out of Buchanan Field anymore...since PSA/USAir's departure.

I think CCR-LAX, CCR-LAS and CCR-SEA would do well in a Q400.

Or how about another small airport like Livermore, CA?


User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5799 posts, RR: 15
Reply 23, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1763 times:



Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 22):
It's too bad that another airline wouldn't be able to fly out ot CCR (Concord, CA). I don't know if airlines are allowed to fly out of Buchanan Field anymore...since PSA/USAir's departure.

I think CCR-LAX, CCR-LAS and CCR-SEA would do well in a Q400.

If they take Federal money (grants, etc) to do airport projects they have to allow an airline to operate at CCR.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
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