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Concorde Crews, Are They Still Flying?  
User currently offlineEGCC777LR From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 162 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 18502 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

Hi All,

Just been watching the ITVV DVD of Concorde and it got me to thinking, what happened to the flight deck crews? I Presume that the Captain's and FO's moved to 744's or 772's when the fleet retired and I guess that some of them have retired now. But what happened to the FE's? Were any of them qualified pilots? Were they just made redundant when Concorde retired? Or were they given ground roles within BA/AF? If that's the case, what a come down, from the flight deck of the worlds most glamourous aircraft to a desk job......that would be a bad day  Sad

Also, amazing to watch how labour intensive she was to fly in comparison to modern glass cockpit aircraft, I wonder how much of this would be done by computer if she was being designed today? Great memories all the same though.

Thanks in anticipation for your answers  wave 


Flown On B704,722,732/3/4/7/8/9,744,752,762/3/4,772,77W,A319,A320,A321,A330,A388,L1011,F-50,BAE146,CRJ100, Dash-8. Left
54 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTheginge From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 1131 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 18496 times:

I think most of the FO's are still at BA, if they were on Concorde they would have already had the seniority to become Captains anyway. I think some of the Capts are still around. Not sure about the FE's, I guess they would have all retired.

User currently offlineBellerophon From United Kingdom, joined May 2002, 583 posts, RR: 59
Reply 2, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 18153 times:

Only four Concorde Captains are still flying with BA, with the rest having retired. Of those who retired from BA, a few are flying for other airlines.

All the Concorde F/Os have commands, on various fleets, although one subsequently retired early and another died tragically in an aerobatic accident.

Nearly all the F/Es have retired, of those few that remain, most have ground jobs within BA whilst two are flying as cabin crew.

Best Regards

Bellerophon


User currently offlineMaxisno1 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2007, 213 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 18083 times:



Quoting Bellerophon (Reply 2):
Only four Concorde Captains are still flying with BA, with the rest having retired. Of those who retired from BA, a few are flying for other airlines.

All the Concorde F/Os have commands, on various fleets, although one subsequently retired early and another died tragically in an aerobatic accident.

Nearly all the F/Es have retired, of those few that remain, most have ground jobs within BA whilst two are flying as cabin crew.

Interesting infomation, thanks for sharing.


User currently offlineAlanelrfc From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2008, 76 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 17981 times:

I don't want to single anyone out, but there is Senior Cabin Crew member who currently works for European Air Charter on the 737-200's


Flown On: F50,F100,DH4,M88,E145,E90,AT7,AR1,B733,735,738,739,752,763,773,A319,320,321,332,333,346
User currently offlineEGCC777LR From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 162 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 17954 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

737-200's !!!! Is that a misprint or a serious case of major to minor....... If thats true, thats got to hurt.


Flown On B704,722,732/3/4/7/8/9,744,752,762/3/4,772,77W,A319,A320,A321,A330,A388,L1011,F-50,BAE146,CRJ100, Dash-8. Left
User currently offlineN104UA From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 902 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 17939 times:

I know that in the US the FE's need to be an actual pilot with ATP rating. Because I know when UA retired the DC-10 and 727 the FE's went to f/o on airbus or 772 etc.


"Learn the rules, so you know how to break them properly." -H.H. The Dalai Lama
User currently offlineEGCC777LR From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 162 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 17861 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

I thought that was the case with the older more std jets, but the FE in the Concorde DVD was certainly older than FO and didnt look like he was the sort of age to be in training to command. It just made me wonder if an ATP was a requiement for the FE seat or not?


Flown On B704,722,732/3/4/7/8/9,744,752,762/3/4,772,77W,A319,A320,A321,A330,A388,L1011,F-50,BAE146,CRJ100, Dash-8. Left
User currently offlineCOEI2007 From Vanuatu, joined Jan 2007, 1912 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 17787 times:



Quoting Alanelrfc (Reply 4):
I don't want to single anyone out, but there is Senior Cabin Crew member who currently works for European Air Charter on the 737-200's

Maybe its just because the person in question wanted to be closer to home etc, and maybe European Air Charter can do that


User currently offlinePilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3145 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 17605 times:



Quoting N104UA (Reply 6):
I know that in the US the FE's need to be an actual pilot with ATP rating. Because I know when UA retired the DC-10 and 727 the FE's went to f/o on airbus or 772 etc.

Not entirely true. Some airlines employ people with only an FE rating. These are often referred to as Professional Flight Engineers or PFEs. However as that seat is going away, most at the carriers with a large fleet of 3-man aircraft are pilots who have passed the manditory retirement age (60, now 65) for the front two positions.



DMI
User currently offlineMoose135 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2296 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 17537 times:



Quoting N104UA (Reply 6):
I know that in the US the FE's need to be an actual pilot with ATP rating.

Are you sure that wasn't just an airline requirement? I know 20 years ago, when I was looking at airline jobs (and many more were flying with FEs) most only required a commercial/multi rating. In fact, I can't find anything in the FARs that say you need more than a commercial/instrument/2nd class medical.



KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10884 posts, RR: 37
Reply 11, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 17527 times:

Thank you, Bellerophon. I have heard about former Concorde Captain Les Brodie now working as a private jet pilot (if he still is at this point in time) and Barbara Harmer being a long haul BA 777 captain.


There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineAlessandro From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 17478 times:

Didn´t many of the former Concorde drivers had started off with the VC-10?

User currently offlineCloudyapple From Hong Kong, joined Jul 2005, 2454 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 17454 times:



Quoting Bellerophon (Reply 2):
Nearly all the F/Es have retired, of those few that remain, most have ground jobs within BA whilst two are flying as cabin crew.

Interesting these flight engineers becoming cabin crew.



A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12408 posts, RR: 37
Reply 14, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 17431 times:



Quoting Alessandro (Reply 12):
Didn´t many of the former Concorde drivers had started off with the VC-10?

Yes, that's because the early Concorde crews were taken from the BOAC pool, most of them being on VC10s.

Quoting Pilotpip (Reply 9):
Not entirely true. Some airlines employ people with only an FE rating. These are often referred to as Professional Flight Engineers or PFEs

There are different cultures here, in that European carriers (with one or two exceptions, such as Aer Lingus) had professional flight engineers, while at US carriers, FEs were SOs and tended to start off as flight engineers, then continue to the right seat. That said, there were exceptions; I heard of an American 727 SO in his '70s!


User currently offlineEGCC777LR From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 162 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 17422 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

Les Brodie was the SFO on the Concorde DVD I watched, IIRC wasn't he one of the Captain's who flew one of the last Rev flights back to LHR on the last day of commercial ops


Flown On B704,722,732/3/4/7/8/9,744,752,762/3/4,772,77W,A319,A320,A321,A330,A388,L1011,F-50,BAE146,CRJ100, Dash-8. Left
User currently offlineHiflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2167 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 17259 times:

I know of one airline who required the Flt Eng to be an A&P....saved them from having mechs in every station back then.....

User currently offlineUAEflyer From United Arab Emirates, joined Nov 2006, 1028 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 16511 times:

I know one pilot who used to fly Concorde now flying a private wide-body for a VIP in the Arabian Gulf region

User currently offlineGulfstream650 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2008, 537 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 16402 times:



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 11):
I have heard about former Concorde Captain Les Brodie now working as a private jet pilot

If I had a private jet I'd get even more satisfaction telling people that my pilot used to fly concordes.




I don't proclaim to be the best pilot in the world but I'm safe
User currently offlineDALMD88 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2534 posts, RR: 14
Reply 19, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 16302 times:



Quoting Moose135 (Reply 10):
Are you sure that wasn't just an airline requirement? I know 20 years ago, when I was looking at airline jobs (and many more were flying with FEs) most only required a commercial/multi rating. In fact, I can't find anything in the FARs that say you need more than a commercial/instrument/2nd class medical.

There is one other way to the sideways seat. And A&P with I think 6 years of large jet exp. also meets the requirement to test for a FE ticket. This route hasn't been widely used for many years, but at one time this was the main route.


User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8403 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 16302 times:



Quoting Gulfstream650 (Reply 18):
If I had a private jet I'd get even more satisfaction telling people that my pilot used to fly concordes

 checkmark 

The other biggies would be SR-71 pilots and AF1 pilots IMHO!!


User currently offlineVC10 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 1406 posts, RR: 16
Reply 21, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 15584 times:

Well there is quite a mixed bag of ideas here.

I some 8 years ago got my FAA F/E ticket and I have no pilot qualifications at all. Now you have two option when applying for a F/E ticket and that is by using your engineering qualifications or your pilot qualifications.

With this option many USA airlines insisted that their F/Es came from the group with pilot qualifications, and in this matter were supported or even prodded by the pilots union.

In Europe [with a few exceptions] and much of the rest of the world, the F/Es were recruited from an engineering background with no need for pilot qualification and in the UK at least they were all expected if required to get their hands dirty during a transit stop, and yes that applied to the F/Es on Concorde to.

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 14):
Yes, that's because the early Concorde crews were taken from the BOAC pool, most of them being on VC10s

Not quite true,although the initial crews, ie those trained in the late 1970s were exclusively from a BOAC background, the pilots and F/Es would have have come in almost equal
numbers from the VC-10 and B707 fleets with indeed some of the management crew members coming from B747

With the resumption of crew training in the mid 1980s crews almost entirely came from those whose background had been with BEA and then later with those from BCal,so by the late 1990s it was a mixed bag. THe F/Es by then were from B747, DC-10 and Tristars

Quoting EGCC777LR (Reply 7):
thought that was the case with the older more std jets, but the FE in the Concorde DVD was certainly older than FO and didnt look like he was the sort of age to be in training to command. It just made me wonder if an ATP was a requiement for the FE seat or not?

Within British Airways there was no requirement for a F/E to hold any pilot qualification and that included those on Concorde. With that said however all F/Es were required to take part in monitoring pilot operations, the aircraft's navigation and performance etc. I am not surprised that the F/E looked older than the co-pilot,as the F/E was often the oldest crew member on the aircraft, not only in age but also in experience on the aircraft. For the F/E who went on Concorde it was a life long commitment, you basically stayed there until you retired . In fact the longest serving Concorde crew member was a F/E who was on that aircraft for 24 years. You did not become a F/E to become a pilot,but rather to be the source of technical knowledge for that crew as well as your other functions. Remember even on Concorde there were still places on the ground where you could not contact London for advice on a technical problem

Quoting EGCC777LR (Thread starter):
But what happened to the FE's? Were any of them qualified pilots?

When the old girl retired most of the F/Es were near to retirement anyway and some of the others took early retirement. a very few went on to became F/As on short haul aircraft with just the Management F/E taking a job on the ground within BA as far as I remember


uote=EGCC777LR,reply=0]Also, amazing to watch how labour intensive she was to fly in[/quote]

The video showed a normal operation, well you should have seen it when things went wrong, " now that was labour intensive"

littlevc10


User currently offlineAcNDTTech From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 338 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 12815 times:



Quoting N104UA (Reply 6):
know that in the US the FE's need to be an actual pilot with ATP rating

Not necessarily, I remember ATA had professional FE's on 727's, DC-10's, and L-1011's. I think their may have been some freight operators that had pro FE's as well.


User currently offlineAcNDTTech From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 338 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 12775 times:



Quoting Moose135 (Reply 10):
most only required a commercial/multi rating

True - If everyone was required to have an ATP, all these flight schools would be in trouble. Pilot's getting interviews with the regionals with only a few hundred hours, Comm., ME, Inst. Now, maybe for the majors an ATP might be an "unwritten" requirement.


User currently offlineFlymad From South Africa, joined Jun 2006, 207 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 12734 times:



Quoting COEI2007 (Reply 8):
don't want to single anyone out, but there is Senior Cabin Crew member who currently works for European Air Charter on the 737-200's

Maybe its just because the person in question wanted to be closer to home etc, and maybe European Air Charter can do that

I like to think it's just a case of really enjoying what they do and will do anything to to be able to do it!


25 Stratosphere : That's true also many years ago the legacy carriers also employed PFE's Professional Flight Engineers. I remember riding the crew bus and seeing an A
26 Stratosphere : I have that DVD set also..That was a great insight into Concorde operations. That F/E was awesome he really knew his systems.
27 AcNDTTech : Now a legal question. Instead of downgrading to S.O., could a capt. go down to F.O.? They wouldn't be a captain anymore, but could still fly the airc
28 Max Q : Forget humiliation Stratosphere, Many of those post age 60 flight engineers at Fed Ex were able to go back to the left seat after the retirement age c
29 AcNDTTech : OK.....I'm an idiot now. When did the age requirement change?
30 EGCC777LR : Roger Bricknell was his name, you get the feeling fron watching the DVD that he new Concorde so well that he could have re-built the Concorde himself
31 UAL777UK : Your absolutely correct. I was not only there for that but a few days before the retirements I stood at the end of 9L and witnessed two Concordes com
32 EGCC777LR : That must have been amazing, what a pity nobody has a picture or video of that
33 UAL777UK : Theres was loads of cameras there, I am surprised nothing has ever been posted or a video has hit youtube. It certainly was fantastic. I also witness
34 GDB : Les Brodie, in the video mentioned above, which was filmed in August 1996, became a Capt on 777's, then returned to Concorde as a Capt on that type. R
35 FA4AF : Here at AF, most of the Captains and Flight Engineers were already on the retirement path, although some remained as 744 Captains until retirement age
36 Theginge : I know of some Concorde flight engineers who became pilots, bit this was in the 90's.
37 JezUK77 : Maybe this has been asked before but I often wondered if the same flight and cabin crews on the flight out from LHR to JFK were the same ones coming b
38 Jetstar : If an airplane is certified with a flight engineer like the 727, DC-10 etc, then the person occupying the FE seat must have a commercial pilots licens
39 VC10 : You are correct that int 1990s 2 or perhaps 3 Concorde F/Es were selected for retraining as Pilots. However they were just a part of a larger group o
40 VC10 : I wonder if you could direct me to the FAR that states this, as I know of some F/Es who within the last 10 years have got an American F/Es ticket and
41 Airxliban : I was under the impression that one of the former Concorde pilots became a Captain on the A319/320 family. Apparently he didn't like long haul flights
42 AcNDTTech : FAR 63.37 An applicant for the initial FE practical exam must present satisfactory evidence in at least 1 of 7 areas of aeronautical experience......
43 VC10 : Thanks for that info, it has been a few years since I looked at them, but just about all history now. littlevc10
44 AcNDTTech : That's completely possible, higher seniority - higher chioce. At US, there were a lot of very senior DC-9 captains that came out of the woodwork to f
45 N49WA : OK, I have been holding off on commenting because I didn't want to sound like I was bragging, but... The lead pilot of our Learjet (N49WA) spent 2 de
46 Jetstar : The FAA regulations when the B-707’s and DC-8’s were certified required all jet airliners over 80,000 pounds to have a flight engineer. The FAA la
47 2H4 : That's a really interesting history. On average, how many hours per month do you fly her? 2H4
48 Jetstar : I took my airplane out of service 10 years ago so I am not currently flying it, I put just over 2000 hours on her so for a 44 year old airplane, she
49 2H4 : Wow, what an interesting project. When do you predict you'll be finished? Do you have an example? I'd love to see examples of both the colors and sche
50 Stratosphere : Hey Jetstar, I wasn't aware that the FAA ever required the Professional FE to have a commercial pilots licence. In the past they might have. I did me
51 MCOflyer : I meant one 757 FO in 2007 who got pushed down from A330 FO. Said he was bidding A330 FO Reserve out of CLT later that year. Hunter
52 Max Q : That requirement was only valid in the US, Jetstar.
53 VC10 : You are quite correct to say that Pan Am trained their Original F/Es to have basic pilot licences, but this was to meet the the pilots union demand t
54 Post contains images Jetstar : That’s the same question my wife keeps asking because we only have a 1 car garage. I bought on E-Bay a sales brochure for 1964 Cessna 150’s and I
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