F9Animal From United States, joined Dec 2004, 3393 posts, RR: 36 Reply 1, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 6003 times:
Quoting Clickhappy (Thread starter): Aren't ALL union members expected to picket for four hours per day?
4 hours per day, once a week. That is alot to cover. That is why the picketing looks so small in terms of how many are in the IAM. The first night however, I saw a pretty large presence. Also, alot of these guys and gals have secured work during the strike, so they can only do the minimum 4 hours.
Moo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 2, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 5993 times:
Quoting F9Animal (Reply 1): 4 hours per day, once a week. That is alot to cover. That is why the picketing looks so small in terms of how many are in the IAM.
That's pathetic - everyone on strike should be there throughout their entire normal shift, no exceptions.
Moo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 4, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 5969 times:
Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 3): If they can "secure work" what do they need Boeing for? If they call a $25 per year increase in healthcare coverage a "takeaway" why don't they quit?
I'm guessing the strike vote would have gone a completely different way if they were required to picket during their normal working hours....
Flighty From United States, joined Apr 2007, 4486 posts, RR: 2 Reply 5, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 5964 times:
Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 3):
I guess that is the part that makes zero sense to me; They hate Boeing, so why work there?
I still think this is far more consensual than we realize. Boeing knows it workers will strike at regular intervals. They design their business to support that. The workers, in turn do not hate Boeing. They "just want a decent contract" and have to strike for it.
By keeping wages lower, and tolerating strikes, Boeing saves money in the long run. This plan involves the workers striking from time to time. I'm not sure it is a big deal, given that the pattern is so regular and orderly. Workers have extra time with family during the strikes, in the fine month of September (notice it isn't January). Maybe this isn't such a disaster.
Art From Lebanon, joined Feb 2005, 2273 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 5935 times:
Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 3): If they can "secure work" what do they need Boeing for? If they call a $25 per year increase in healthcare coverage a "takeaway" why don't they quit?
I guess that is the part that makes zero sense to me; They hate Boeing, so why work there?
They don't want to quit as fas as I can see. My take is that they want to be able to keep afloat financially while the strike is on so they are not forced back to work through financial need.
StuckInCA From United States, joined Oct 2005, 1191 posts, RR: 1 Reply 7, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 5912 times:
Quoting Moo (Reply 4): I'm guessing the strike vote would have gone a completely different way if they were required to picket during their normal working hours....
Seems likely.
Quoting Flighty (Reply 5): Workers have extra time with family during the strikes, in the fine month of September (notice it isn't January).
I think it's funny that they have burn-barrels. As if it's cold outside.
F9Animal From United States, joined Dec 2004, 3393 posts, RR: 36 Reply 9, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 5764 times:
Quoting Flighty (Reply 5): I still think this is far more consensual than we realize. Boeing knows it workers will strike at regular intervals. They design their business to support that. The workers, in turn do not hate Boeing. They "just want a decent contract" and have to strike for it.
By keeping wages lower, and tolerating strikes, Boeing saves money in the long run. This plan involves the workers striking from time to time. I'm not sure it is a big deal, given that the pattern is so regular and orderly. Workers have extra time with family during the strikes, in the fine month of September (notice it isn't January). Maybe this isn't such a disaster.
Very well said Flighty. You hit the nail on the head. Boeing wanted this strike, and they got it. Many of the union members wanted this strike, because the contract was not worth voting in favor for. Not only that, but many are just plain old worn out from working so much overtime. One guy said he had not had a day off in 2 months. It is a much needed break for many, including Boeing, as they now get the chance to get caught up on the 787. Boeing will get back to the table when they are ready, which might be a few weeks.
To the nay sayers: Just watch, after the strike, the 787 will be flying within a month.
F9Animal From United States, joined Dec 2004, 3393 posts, RR: 36 Reply 13, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 5683 times:
Quoting Moo (Reply 12): Riiiiiiiiight, can anyone else smell that bull....?
Just watch... Right now, there are engineers crawling all over that plane, trying to figure out what needs tweaking and so on. Once all is said and done, the machinists will come back, and fix what needs fixing. The aircraft will be doing taxi tests, and in no time be airborne.
Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 11): I'm wondering what effect these strikes have on Boeing's image and integrity.....
We all know that the union and Boeing are closer than what meets the eye. Airbus also has the same issues on the plate with their workers.
Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 10): But it will be essentially the same contract, with maybe a couple of extra %'s in salary.
No way they agree to "no layoffs through outsourcing."
The union will triumph the fact that they got an additional 2%, which will equal about $3,700 over the life of the contract.
Of course the average worker gets about $4700 for a month of work, so if they strike for 60 days they will have a net loss of about -$5700.
Once the language is changed or tweaked, we will be back. If Boeing was so disappointed in this, they would have already been back at the table. Still no phone calls made, which tells me that Boeing is scrambling to get the 787 issues resolved through engineering. If we would have voted in favor of this contract, Boeing would have announced a further delay in the 787. That announcement would have been a huge blow to the ones that have said the 787 is back on schedule. Now, with the smoke screen up, Boeing has a fine excuse for the delay.
Stitch From United States, joined Jul 2005, 15991 posts, RR: 64 Reply 14, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 5645 times:
Quoting F9Animal (Reply 13): Just watch... Right now, there are engineers crawling all over that plane, trying to figure out what needs tweaking and so on. Once all is said and done, the machinists will come back, and fix what needs fixing. The aircraft will be doing taxi tests, and in no time be airborne.
Well that is one benefit of stopping work on all the 787s. It does give folks time to review the program and the planes without worry about time.
Not sure ZA001 will be up in a month, but it could hopefully make ZA002-ZA004 quicker and allow ZA005 and ZA006 to be built in weeks instead of months.
Moo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 15, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 5627 times:
Quoting F9Animal (Reply 13): Just watch... Right now, there are engineers crawling all over that plane, trying to figure out what needs tweaking and so on. Once all is said and done, the machinists will come back, and fix what needs fixing. The aircraft will be doing taxi tests, and in no time be airborne.
So why hasn't that happened in the past year already? Sounds so simple.....
RIHNOSAUR From United States, joined Mar 2006, 362 posts, RR: 1 Reply 17, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 5572 times:
Quoting F9Animal (Reply 9): Just watch, after the strike, the 787 will be flying within a month.
OOOOK.....no offense to Boeing (cause I think they are a cool company that makes cool planes) but I believe you are smoking something really good.....and can I have some....
oh wait, sounds like you pushed the Staples "Easy Button"....my bad
I will hold you accountable for what you are saying, ...if you are joking that's fine ...but it doesn't sound like you are, so be prepared to get a load of heat (in general from posters) if it does not turn out the way you are claiming.
See I just do not understand commentaries like these...they just put people in such a tight spot???!?!
cheers
particles and waves are the same thing, but who knows what that thing is...
F9Animal From United States, joined Dec 2004, 3393 posts, RR: 36 Reply 18, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 5516 times:
Quoting Moo (Reply 15): So why hasn't that happened in the past year already? Sounds so simple.....
The contract was not up a year ago.
Quoting RIHNOSAUR (Reply 17): OOOOK.....no offense to Boeing (cause I think they are a cool company that makes cool planes) but I believe you are smoking something really good.....and can I have some....
ABOUT a month after the IAM comes back, the bird will be ready to fly.
Stitch From United States, joined Jul 2005, 15991 posts, RR: 64 Reply 19, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 5511 times:
While I believe that Boeing offered a decent contract which is similar to what the IAM has (eventually) accepted in the past, I must say that I find it...ironic...to see folks comment how much "better" the IAM has it then many non-unionized workers and therefore they should accept a degradation of benefits when it is more likely that the IAM has it so "good" because they are unionized and have not just accepted degradation of their benefits without a fight.
StuckInCA From United States, joined Oct 2005, 1191 posts, RR: 1 Reply 20, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 5490 times:
Quoting Stitch (Reply 19): While I believe that Boeing offered a decent contract which is similar to what the IAM has (eventually) accepted in the past, I must say that I find it...ironic...to see folks comment how much "better" the IAM has it then many non-unionized workers and therefore they should accept a degradation of benefits when it is more likely that the IAM has it so "good" because they are unionized and have not just accepted degradation of their benefits without a fight.
I certainly see your point, but I would argue that the "goodness" of the benefits IAM workers have at Boeing is relatively higher than it was a few years ago even with the takeaways (which seem minor). As, nationally, employee (and employer) contributions to health care have skyrocketed, Boeing IAM workers have been basically shielded from the impact.
So, their fights may have kept things "good" but I think there is a point at which they should concede. They have far better compensation than they would get elsewhere. They (workers) wanted the strike. I hope it ends quickly and productivity and morale can rebound.
Moo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 21, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 5451 times:
Quoting F9Animal (Reply 18): The contract was not up a year ago.
Excuse me for being blunt, but just what the hell does *that* have to do with anything? If Boeing thought that a month of engineers crawing over the airframe unmolested would have solved *anything* they would have sent you all home for a month on paid leave and done it months ago.
The fact that they didn't speaks volumes...
Quoting F9Animal (Reply 18):
ABOUT a month after the IAM comes back, the bird will be ready to fly.
Again, can anyone smell the bull....?
Yeah, the moment you come back you are going to dive right back into your jobs with so much determination you will achieve super human feats of accomplishment - after the 787 is flying, Boeing will rent you out so the Chinese can move Everest a little to the left (because its currently blocking someones view from their penthouse suite), and after that, well, then you are coming down to the Falklands to tow us to sunnier climes...
MCIGuy From United States, joined Mar 2006, 1779 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 5420 times:
Quoting F9Animal (Reply 9): To the nay sayers: Just watch, after the strike, the 787 will be flying within a month.
Well, a couple to a few months anyway, but it doesn't take great psychic ability to predict that, nor does the IAM returning to work have much to do with it, it's simply the state of the program right now.
AirframeAS From United States, joined Feb 2004, 9973 posts, RR: 32 Reply 23, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 5363 times:
Quoting F9Animal (Reply 1): Quoting Clickhappy (Thread starter):
Aren't ALL union members expected to picket for four hours per day?
4 hours per day, once a week.
How does the IAM keep track of that and where is the bylaw at the IAM that says in an event of a strike, a member must picket at a minimum of 4 hours each week. Care to share where that bylaw is?
Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 3): If they can "secure work" what do they need Boeing for?
Click, its probably only temp jobs.... You can get a temp job at Target pretty easily. Hint: the holidays are coming....
Quoting YWG747 (Reply 8): Only if you want your strike pay.
The only folks collecting pay right now are the Boeing managers at the plant, the folks at IAM but not the striking workers...
Quoting F9Animal (Reply 9): To the nay sayers: Just watch, after the strike, the 787 will be flying within a month.
As much as I respect you to the fullest, F9Animal.... I have to disagree with you there. They still have the brake issue to resolve, do they not? They have been working on aircraft #1 since the existance of this line. And it's going nowhere. That rollout shouldn't have happened in the first place.... That nearly killed the plane and the program itself, IMO.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
474218 From United States, joined Oct 2005, 3756 posts, RR: 1 Reply 24, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 5335 times:
Quoting F9Animal (Reply 9): Boeing wanted this strike, and they got it.
You keep say that Boeing wanted the strike. But when I asked you if Boeing management cheered like the union members did when the strike was announced you said "no".
So I take it it was really the union (they are the ones that cheered) that really wanted the strike.
HapppyLandings From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 25, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 5206 times:
Quoting F9Animal (Reply 9): Boeing wanted this strike, and they got it.
In a previous post you state that Boeing already lost $300,000,000.00 as a result of the strike. And then many times over you said that Boeing wanted the strike.
Is it just me, or does it seem unlikely that ANYONE would really want to lose that kind of money?
Maybe my mode of thinking is just flawed, but I really do not think so.
Also, is there a Machinists union anywhere in the country that has a better contract that what Boeing has offered the IAM? Any that anyone knows off hand?
Anyways, I think the IAM should be legally fined a Huge amount of money and have some Huge penalties as a result of this strike.
The fact that the union can hold a company hostage like this is despicable. Whats fair is not what one side thinks is fair, what is fair is an agreement that both sides are content with. Holding a company hostage for ransom is non-ethical, and union action such as this should be illegal. It goes against the core of ethical business & labour values, and in the business world a similar non union act would be considered blackmail.
If unions want any respect and would like to actually uphold ethical practices during a strike, it should be a work to rule, and that is that.
Get your lazy butts back to work, or find another job. Boeing is not the only company losing here, many airlines around the world are going to suffer from the IAM's selfish desicion.
26 HapppyLandings: They just wanted to "Stick it to the man" what ever the heck that means. If they actually cared about their cause they would be out on the picket lin
27 HapppyLandings: Ryanair has to delay the start of 11 new routes due to the indefinite delay of two of its aircraft. Thousands of people who have already booked these
28 Tdscanuck: Why? It would cost IAM more money than the strike is already costing them and wouldn't make any difference to Boeing's response. What's the point? I'
29 JoeCanuck: If the sides are so close, why is the onus on Boeing to give in? Why strike at all? Money lost during a strike is lost forever...it won't be made up
30 JoeCanuck: This just in... http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/080909/business/boeing_machinists $150.00/wk for 6 months. I wonder what union management is earnin
31 StuckInCA: That's because their compensation at Boeing is over market rate. Very few will find something even as good let alone better. I think that will be ver
32 AirframeAS: You never know. The private sector you are forgetting about....
33 StuckInCA: I'm absolutely not forgetting it. I just highly doubt that there are many jobs out there with similar compensation.
34 F9Animal: Just wait and see. I am pretty confident in what I said. Anyways, off to the picket lines. I love my union, and I love my brothers and sisters. LONG L
35 474218: I I have asked F9Animal several times to prove this statement, as yet all I have gotten is union rhetoric.
36 F9Animal: And this is just the beginning. Amazing.... Yawn...... Union rhetoric? Like I said, it is slowly squeezing out. http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080909/boeing
37 RIHNOSAUR: So pardon my ignorance as lately I only casually browse the site, but I take it you are a machinist for Boeing???? what aspect component of the new b
38 Tdscanuck: The average value of the final Boeing offer was about $28,000 over the three year contract...that's about a four-six month strike for most IAM before
39 StuckInCA: Don't forget, that $28k is after taxes. That may push your timeline to the lower end... or beyond. I'd wager there are quite a few union members (esp
40 A10WARTHOG: The new calls everyone Boeing machinist, but very few are really machinist in the way you are more than likely think. I think it comes from the IAM u
41 JoeCanuck: Actually, that's just what they were already offered. What they are striking for is the DIFFERENCE between what Boeing offered and what they demand.
42 Stratosphere: The iam is not noted for negotiating high paying contracts. LOL..I respect the hell out of you F9 but this statement made me spit my beer into my key
43 Stratosphere: Thats funny...We always joked that there were very few "machinists" in the machinists union. They represent almost everyone else but machinists.
44 AuroraLives: So let me get this straight.... $28K over 3 years is $9.3K/year increase... By the above comment (4-6 months) I take it a typical IAM income is 28 *
45 Stitch: IMO, it comes to this because of the 787. Boeing needs this plane in the air six months ago and every delay risks current and future sales. And part
46 Moo: The Pentagon has just indefinitely suspended the KC-X/KC-45 tanker purchase. I wonder if this was an influence for that decision, thoughts anyone?
47 F9Animal: LOL! I was drunk when I typed that! So, we were both drinking at the same time. Gotta love it when the emotions come out over a cold one! Oh yes, and
48 Stitch: I would say no, in that Boeing wanted an extension to refine their existing design or develop a new one, and that only requires SPEEA, who are all st
49 LY4XELD: Tell that to the 200+ workers who lost their job in Spokane. Not outsourced labor, but a supplier, in Washington State. http://www.spokesmanreview.co
50 Stitch: I did some support work (on the IT end) for AOG folks for a time. Damn exciting stuff, to be sure. This mornings The Seattle Times ran an article on
51 Stitch: I believe that plant used to be owned by Boeing and was spun-off in 2002 or 2003. So if they were still part of Boeing, they'd be IAM workers and on
52 Mrocktor: How about "it's extortion time, and they feel they have have a valuable hostage"
53 A10WARTHOG: It is Triumph Composite Systems, they actually IAM part of the district 751. They went on strike last year for 7 day or so.
54 ER757: Good article - presented both sides and didn't express opinion. I think both sides have valid points - being in management for over 20 years, I tend
55 F9Animal: That sounds like a job that could give one a headache!!! Yes, this is a majority of what the strike is about. It really had little to do with the fin
56 ER757: Actually, that's not what they said at all - they said it would last at least a month, which is not the same as about a month.
57 JoeCanuck: I don't get how making it less economical to build planes in Washington ensures job security. Most of the outsourcing for the 787 worked just fine. Su
58 2175301: Bingo: Something that it seems union after union does not understand. Really? I thought it was about the $25 per month take away per person on the he
59 StuckInCA: Agreed. If you look back at the rhetoric and the signs union members were holding during the first days, it was almost ALL about the money. Next the
60 F9Animal: Your starting to sound more like management by the second. Go ahead, and relocate. I don't care!!! We are fighting machinists, and we are going to ke
61 StuckInCA: Mmmm veiled threats of union violence are always great. Endearing. Way to garner public support for ridiculous demands. By the by... "Strike Drains R
62 Stratosphere: Hey animal you will find very little little support on this forum for your cause. I have been there so I can relate..The media never tells the whole
63 814NAS: With all due respect, F9, 2175301 is only echoing the many reasons you yourself have put forward to why the strike went ahead over the course of this
64 Pygmalion: I have been amazed at how few picketers are walking the line. I haven't seen more than a dozen at any gate at Everett. As much as they cheered the str
65 2175301: Actually, I once was management at a plant that was closed (Plant Superintendent in fact). I had outlined ways to save the plant - and the jobs - and
66 F9Animal: Not threats, just the fact. If anyone went to ANY group of members in ANY union that was on strike, and spouted off half the garbage people have been
67 Revelation: I found the following section to be the most interesting: Talk about silly union rules! Today's Times brings us the following: Ref: http://seattletim
68 Pygmalion: 15,000 IAM members in Everett, 4 hours a week on the line, thats 60,000 hours worth of strike duty. There are 168 hours in a week... (7*24=168) hmmm
69 F9Animal: And, way over half of those guys and gals live so far south, that they were assigned to a closer plant to their home. Yup, you heard it. Many live wa
71 M27: That kin of makes it look like the IAM just wants to hurt their employer! Sad.
72 HapppyLandings: Are all of you IAM guys as handsome as that fellow on the front page there?
73 Pygmalion: Except the picket lines are pretty sparse in Renton, Auburn, Plant 2 and and the Developmental Center. Did they all drive to Portland to Picket?
74 AirframeAS: Wait, wait, WAIT..... A big question here: Who is assigned to work on the 787, SPEEA or IAM? If none of the IAM members are working on the 787, then i
75 HapppyLandings: Do you want to punish Airbus that much? Because about 87% of them cannot think for themselves.
76 AirframeAS: I wouldn't say I am punishing Airbus. I would rather have the IAM workers go work for Airbus instead. Airbus can have them. It clearly shows, unfortu
77 LY4XELD: IAM members and SPEEA members, and others are assigned to the 787 program.
78 474218: Did that type of job for over 20 years, it lots of fun. Being woke up a 3:00 AM because of a jammed flap system, or called away from Christmas dinner
79 AirNZ: Bit of a bold, insulting and general statement is it not? Are you seen as any different from anyone else?
80 F9Animal: Of course. Actually, that is a pic of me. I wanted to earn a little more respect back from AirframeAS. I don't think that would be very good. Perhaps
81 HapppyLandings: Maybe a tad arrogant, for that I do apologize. But I have watched all of the videos on www.iam751.org and it just wreaked of union propaganda to me.
82 Par13del: If I just got to this site and read the post on this strike I would have to believe that the US is the propoganda capital of the world, imagine someon
83 Tdscanuck: They're quite richly compensated considering education...not particularly comparing experience. Yes. Boeing came off the best three years in their hi
84 2175301: F9; Here is what is really bugging me about what I am seeing here. Fundamentally, I believe that the current approach of the IAM is wrong, and that t
85 StuckInCA: Times change. Ask NW mechanics. Ask the steel industry. Ask the auto industry. The "bad times" you mention may come sooner than you think. I did read
86 MillwallSean: Ok, since I spent most of my time working for continental european companies my views on unions are different than most other anglosaxons. In Europe,
87 Sxf24: Yes, the strike will last longer than a month. At this point, I strongly believe Boeing will stick with the "best and final" offer. If the union does
88 AuroraLives: Hmmmm... ok.. a 13% increase in compensation is called a "takeaway". There's not really anything more to say... and now I finally understand why the
89 F9Animal: Yup... 13% increase in compensation, but a 20% increase in medical costs..... I would say that qualifies as a takeaway.
90 A10WARTHOG: If that would happen I would say the 787 would be fly for at least another year. Boeing is already have a hard enough time finding and keeping people
91 F9Animal: Wonderful idea! After 90 days, we get locked out. Then, Boeing runs a HUGE hiring event. Tons of people apply, and then they have to do background ch
92 Pygmalion: So Boeing is supposed to suck up all the cost increases in Medical while your small chunk of the cost is supposed to stay fixed forever... sure, that
93 Tdscanuck: In a ~300 page contract, there are obviously some things that got better. If you only look at those, sure, it looks positive. But you need to roll in
94 HapppyLandings: Simple math... 20% Medical cost increase, for the average worker will equate to less than a 1% take away from the 13% increase. What are you not catc
95 JoeCanuck: I'm not trying to be difficult but I still don't get it. You're saying that it's really not a bad contract, just not good enough. That makes the idea
96 F9Animal: LETTER OF UNDERSTANDING NO. 37 SUBJECT: MATERIALS DELIVERY AND INVENTORY PROCESS The Company and the Union agree that parts, materials, tools, kits a
97 PlanesNTrains: So I've lost track. Is outsourcing a point of contention or not? Or is it basically "If you give us everything we want, we'll go back to work."? If s
99 Sxf24: All the more reason for the union to be rational in the negotiations. If they continue to hold out, they are going to shoot them self in the foot in
100 2175301: There is a vast cultural difference between how things work in Europe and many other parts of the world - and how they work in America. In general, t
101 Stitch: In what way will they not see a penny of it? I'm looking at the contract right now [Section 6.2(a)] and every Labor Grade is seeing a greater then $2
102 AuroraLives: On the contrary Tdscanuck.... I picked the WHOLE contract number (11-13% OVERALL increase... depending on source) whereas you and F9 picked up ONLY o
103 F9Animal: Of course I care about myself and my next paycheck. You would be foolish not to. That is really what it is all about. If you as a person can help you
104 Stitch: Well Boeing just shows a minimum and maximum base rate. I take it there are multiple pay rates in between the minimum and maximum rate within a Grade
105 Pygmalion: You keep saying this but its not accurate. If you are in step 3 on the progression you are still in step 3 on the progression. All the steps move up
106 Stratosphere: Dude how many years could you possibly have worked for iam 751 in the 16-20 yr age group 2 maybe? You have an awful lot of insight for 2 yrs..Althoug
107 F9Animal: The only benefit for those in between the starting grade and the top out of the grade benefit with the 5% GWI. So those with 6 months to 2 years real
108 Stratosphere: Hey Animal out of curiosity what is the absolute max houlry pay there at Boeing and how many years does it usually take to get there I am talking the
109 Sxf24: The investment of the profits is called an 14% pay raise and a generous benefits package. Alternatively, you could buy stock and get a dividend check
110 F9Animal: Hey Stratosphere, The top pay right now (not with the potential of a new contract) is a Grade 11 at $35.13 per hour. The Grade 11 starts at $19.72. T
111 StuckInCA: Don't forget your new message to the public: It's all about outsourcing. Not the money. Remember?
112 F9Animal: Money, outsourcing, and so on. You can try to jab at me all you want, but the truth is what it is. WTF is money going to do if your job gets outsourc
113 Sxf24: I would think investing in R&D for new programs so that Boeing can sell more airplanes and employee machinists (and others) is a higher priority than
114 StuckInCA: I'm not really trying to jab at you on a personal level. I wish you the best. I just think that the union is asking for too much and, more to the poi
115 Pygmalion: Boeing pays tuition and books for just about any class you want to take even including $1,500 towards the cost of a private pilots license. They then
116 Pygmalion: the grade levels actually apply to a job not a rating in that job for the most part. Factory assemblers are 4's and 6's, flight line A&P are 8's and
117 Stratosphere: Yeah that is one thing I do find a flaw in. At most of the union airlines a lead mechanic position is by seniority only or in some cases a junior guy
118 Pygmalion: one of the other things I like about the Boeing Team Lead process is they do have peer team leads on the interview team for new ones. So I agree with
119 474218: 13% increase of $25.00 and hour = $130.00 a week pay increase. 20% increase of $25.00 a week for insurance = $5.00 increase in medical cost a week. N
120 Tdscanuck: That's not exactly what I meant, but it's close. As I understand it, it's basically that IAM feels the offer was not concurrent with 1) the company's
121 A10WARTHOG: Maybe this will better understand the reason IAM members are upset about the medical. Prior to July of this year, Boeing had a different no monthly pr
122 MD-90: Why does it have to be adversarial? Because here in the US the general populace would RIOT if that happened. And they're armed. Do you really want to
123 Tdscanuck: It doesn't have to be. The IAM/Boeing negotiations typically seem to be a lot more adversarial than the SPEEA/Boeing ones. It's a mixture of expectat
124 Sxf24: If you increase employee compensation (and thus diverting profit) it leaves less cash to invest in other critical areas.
125 Tdscanuck: Yes. I wasn't suggesting it doesn't affect your cash flow. Just that R&D doesn't have to be the thing that gives. If you're willing to accept a lower
126 Sxf24: Okay, thanks for clarifying. The problem is that the owners of a company will not accept lower profits over time so that their employees can receive
127 Tdscanuck: Definitely true, for a company like Boeing. This is one of those situation where an employee-owned company is nice (the owners *are* the employees).
128 Sxf24: Its true for all public companies - including EADS, Bombardier, etc.
129 JAL: I hope no one take this the wrong way but surely Boeing workers knows that a prolong strike can only hurt Boeing (thus themselves) and help Airbus.
Sponsor Message: 
From United States, joined Sep 2001, 8863 posts, 
From , joined Dec 1969, posts, 
From Lebanon, joined Feb 2005, 2273 posts, 
From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 237 posts, 
From Cayman Islands, joined May 2005, 1236 posts, 
Uh-huh....even if she rolls out the door on day one after the strike ends (unlikely to impossible), she won't be airborne within 30 days thereafter
Printer friendly format 
