Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
CVG Trying Get A Low Cost Carrier.  
User currently offlineBobprobert95 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 61 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 6538 times:

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs...icle?AID=/20080909/BIZ01/309090068

Looks like CVG is trying to get a low cost airline. However, I doubt this will go anywhere.

The article states that the former managment team of Skybus is trying to reform an airline with CVG as the target.

This might be as realistic as getting a cheap fare out of CVG.

JB

49 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLexy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2515 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 6515 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Well, the contract they signed in 1974 may keep the LCC's out of there for a while unfortunately. That's a deal breaker with LCC"s.


Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
User currently offlineSkibum9 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1229 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 6447 times:

The Skybus guys failed misserably! If they can't start an airline at a mid-sized city that is not a fortress hub, what makes them think they can start one at a fortress hub?


Tailwinds!!!
User currently offlineSWASFLA From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 79 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 6406 times:

Is CVG still considered a fortress hub??? LOL

User currently offlineKcrwFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3761 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 6380 times:



Quoting Skibum9 (Reply 2):
The Skybus guys failed misserably! If they can't start an airline at a mid-sized city that is not a fortress hub, what makes them think they can start one at a fortress hub?

Fortress! give me a break.... Didnt DL just announce the closure of one of the terminals in its "fortress" CVG?

Also, Skybus management and board failed miserably. Maybe this guy will actually get to run the airline he designs someday.


User currently offlineIncitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 3964 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 6360 times:



Quoting Bobprobert95 (Thread starter):
Looks like CVG is trying to get a low cost airline.

Are they thinking Delta needs more incentives to leave...????


User currently offlineEvan767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2957 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 6317 times:



Quoting Incitatus (Reply 5):
Are they thinking Delta needs more incentives to leave...????

Exactly.



The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
User currently offlineTSS From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 3045 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 6242 times:



Quoting Lexy (Reply 1):
Well, the contract they signed in 1974 may keep the LCC's out of there for a while unfortunately.

What contract, and between which parties?



Able to kill active threads stone dead with a single post!
User currently offlineCMHSRQ From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 989 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 6136 times:



Quoting TSS (Reply 7):
What contract, and between which parties?

read the article



The voice of moderation
User currently offlineLuckyone From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 2129 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 6094 times:



Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 4):
Maybe this guy will actually get to run the airline he designs

Which in this super-saturated market is still a losing proposition.


User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9071 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 6095 times:



Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 4):
Fortress! give me a break.... Didnt DL just announce the closure of one of the terminals in its "fortress" CVG?

Really.......think about it CO and NW are all RJ to MSP,DTW,EWR and IAH(CLE? MEM?) UA and AA ORD,DFW,DEN(?)IAD(?) and that is about it. DL still rules CVG with or with Concourse C.

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 5):
Are they thinking Delta needs more incentives to leave...????

No joke. Why don't we just see how far we can push it till DL leaves.  Yeah sure



yep.
User currently offlineBennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7199 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6023 times:

I just looked at the Photo Index.

If you blank out DL, it is going to be rather quiet.


User currently offlineTOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3276 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 5900 times:



Quoting SWASFLA (Reply 3):
Is CVG still considered a fortress hub??? LOL



Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 4):
Fortress! give me a break.... Didnt DL just announce the closure of one of the terminals in its "fortress" CVG?

If either of you had taken the time to read the article, you'd see that DL still has an 80% market share in CVG. That's a fortress hub.

That being said, a new entrant airline with a business plan that takes the high cost of oil into account makes more sense at CVG than CMH. No airline dominated CMH. Fares were reasonable there for that reason. Skybus II could charge higher fares from CVG than CMH, and still undercut DL. The goal is not to take DL pax, but to get people out of their cars. If done right it could work. But thats the caveat. It has to be done right. And I'm not sure what that is in today's environment.


User currently onlineLoneStarMike From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 3783 posts, RR: 34
Reply 13, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 5753 times:



Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 4):
Fortress! give me a break.... Didnt DL just announce the closure of one of the terminals in its "fortress" CVG?

If Delta still has over 70% of the total market, then it's still a fortress hub regardless of whether or not they closed a terminal.

LoneStarMike


User currently offlineBOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1972 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 5751 times:

If/when the DL/NW merger goes through, CVG will most likely be reduced. That would open it to the LCCs, be it Skybus 2 or the likes of B6, WN and FL. But until then, it is not going to be easy for them to go there.


2013 World Series Champions!
User currently offlineJetBlueJackets From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 175 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 5711 times:

horrible, horrible idea

anyone who invests money in this should be shot

give the money to me to run a virtual airline with a hub in BOI or BZN....

...It will last longer than you next brainchild

Go away Weilke

End rant


User currently offlineSQ452 From United States of America, joined exactly 10 years ago today! , 1082 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 5582 times:

Oh brother...The business model for Skybus was horrendous given oil prices...and its not like oil prices are going to drop below $100 a barrel anytime soon.

I like this quote from the article: "Weikle’s latest venture is called jetAmerica, and it would be modeled after the original Skybus."

Modeled after the original SkyBus...What's the definition of stupidity everyone? Doing the same thing over again expecting different results...

Quoting JetBlueJackets (Reply 15):
anyone who invests money in this should be shot

Agree

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 12):
That being said, a new entrant airline with a business plan that takes the high cost of oil into account makes more sense at CVG than CMH. No airline dominated CMH. Fares were reasonable there for that reason. Skybus II could charge higher fares from CVG than CMH, and still undercut DL. The goal is not to take DL pax, but to get people out of their cars. If done right it could work. But thats the caveat. It has to be done right. And I'm not sure what that is in today's environment.

Agree, like an ice-cubes chance in hell it could be done right today, but you make a good point about the passenger demographic. DL would enact predatory pricing, but would never be able to go down to $10 fares if thats what Skybus part deux was offering.

Still.....this guy should seriously just stop trying to make this work. Wait till oil drops below $100 a barrel then we'll listen.



SIN > CVG > BOS
User currently offlineLono From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1335 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 5574 times:



Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 14):
CVG will most likely be reduced.

HMMMMM
DL said CVG would not be reduced. as a hub.. what about the thousands of employees there that DL said would not be effected by the merger... this is going to be interesting... I have lived through DL promises before.... ha ha ha.... "due to unexpected operating cost you need to move to ATL/DFW/CVG if you want to keep your job".... "DL said you would not loose your job... but we never said where we expected you to live"..... lived that one.... all DL employees should be ready to move per mom DL's needs... I went from Alaska to DFW following the DL "plan".... IMO this will be a bummer for CVG DL employees....



Wally Bird Ruled the Skys!
User currently offlineCFMitch56 From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 97 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5130 times:

Does CVG have any parallels to PIT before US left the latter?

PIT got some limited LCC action, but still, from what I've read, is not better off than when US had major ops there.


User currently offlineTISTPAA727 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 319 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4460 times:

What I don't understand is if the SkyBus model failed so miserably in the face of high oil (ultra low fares with in flight advertising), why would they believe it could work with a new name? I hope the investors are smart enough to hide their money from any former SkyBus exec...

Just my two cents...



Don't sweat the little things.
User currently offlineViajero From Mexico, joined Aug 2008, 127 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4364 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting SQ452 (Reply 16):
"Weikle’s latest venture is called jetAmerica, and it would be modeled after the original Skybus."

Jet America... Haven't we been down that path before Big grin


User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 10
Reply 21, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4339 times:



Quoting TISTPAA727 (Reply 19):
What I don't understand is if the SkyBus model failed so miserably in the face of high oil (ultra low fares with in flight advertising), why would they believe it could work with a new name? I hope the investors are smart enough to hide their money from any former SkyBus exec...

Just my two cents...

From what I have seen in the press releases (for CVG, CMH, and the WV proposal) they are trying to lure the stupidest investors of all, local governments.

Idiot bureaucrats playing with taxpayers' monies with "the greater good" in mind.


User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9104 posts, RR: 18
Reply 22, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4281 times:



Quoting CFMitch56 (Reply 18):
PIT got some limited LCC action, but still, from what I've read, is not better off than when US had major ops there.

Some folks would like to argue otherwise, but I do agree that PIT is still worse off than when US was in town, in terms of the amount of traffic that used PIT.

However, PIT suffered then what CVG is suffering from now: outrageous fares. How much is a flight from CVG to, say DTW or ORD? Well, a flight from PIT to PHL, which was/in a top destination among PIT travelers, cost $300 - $400 one way, on COACH! REDICULOUS! Naturally, O&D was in the toilet. I could go on and on about what all lead up to the demise of the PIT hub, but it's been argued to beyond-exhaustion, so I will spare you all that!

Anyway, without the US hub in PIT, and as US continued to downsize their presence there from 2002 until 2005, LCCs began to come in to offer lower fares. The LCCs got off to a slow start because of the number of US loyals at PIT who would prefer to give their right arm for a flight and add to their precious FF miles. (Just ask FL about their flights to LGA, PHL, and MDW/ORD)

When US finally dehubbed PIT at the end of 2004, WN announced PIT, with inagural flights to PHL, MDW, LAS, and MCO. Now, the airline is the #2 airline at PIT and handles about half as much of the traffic as still-dominant US.

I am not sure of which LCC would be interested in CVG at this time, should DL pick up and move out. I would think that WN might be number one, but I don't think they have any interests of opening up new markets, especially any time soon with this economy. FL already serves DAY, so there is the possibility of canibalism if they launch CVG, given that many CVG flyers flock to DAY for flights to BWI, ATL, MCO, or TPA... Plus, USA3000 has weekly service to CUN, RSW, and Punta Cana, but apparently it doesn't even put a dent in the CVG market...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineMOBflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1209 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4249 times:



Quoting Lexy (Reply 1):
Well, the contract they signed in 1974 may keep the LCC's out of there for a while unfortunately. That's a deal breaker with LCC"s.

That contract, contrary to the article, is NOT unique to CVG. Federal regulations now prohibit an AIRPORT from subsidizing or offering incentives to one specific carrier. A local or state government can do that, as can CVBs, COCs, etc. An airport CAN provide incentives service to particular markets, however then all carriers, including incumbents, qualify.


User currently offlineTSS From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 3045 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4223 times:



Quoting CMHSRQ (Reply 8):
read the article



Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 12):
If either of you had taken the time to read the article, you'd see that DL still has an 80% market share in CVG. That's a fortress hub.

A better teaser/summation might have gotten more of us to read the article first.

Going by this:

Quoting Bobprobert95 (Thread starter):
Looks like CVG is trying to get a low cost airline. However, I doubt this will go anywhere.

The article states that the former managment team of Skybus is trying to reform an airline with CVG as the target.

One would think the article was all about the attempted reforming of Skybus under another name and nothing else.

However, with DL contracting their operations at CVG I'd have expected one of the LCCs to start ops there if they thought the market was ripe... whether said LCC got incentives or not.



Able to kill active threads stone dead with a single post!
25 Bobprobert95 : I suck no doubt about it! Hell, I couldn't even make a literate title to this topic! The fact remains that CVG is high priced as hell and I doubt that
26 TOLtommy : In terms of nonstop destinations, no. But in terms of average airfare, yes. Hey, the same idiot bureaucrats think high speed rail is worth throwing m
27 TxAgKuwait : This is all just speculation, but..... Southwest has reduced their schedule/eliminated a number of flights in their fall-winter schedule. They've also
28 CFMitch56 : True, but... I agree TxAg, considering how aggressively WN likes to utilize their aircraft, and also because they can simply drop CVG into an existin
29 Steeler83 : Hmm, maybe I will change my view on CVG in this regard. I could see routes like CVG-MDW/DEN/MCO/LAS or BWI as possibilities actually. It could be a r
30 CFMitch56 : I appreciate your thoughts Steeler! On the other hand (playing some devil's advocate with myself): WN has plenty of room to consolidate in the central
31 FlyPNS1 : I was under the impression that the cut this winter was only temporary and that the capacity would be added back to the markets it was removed from w
32 Mayor : But you did have a job, right? I've moved twice.....didn't necessarily like it but I understood that it was the nature of the beast working for the a
33 Steeler83 : Hey anytime... And, come to think of it. I thought that WN would never ever in a million years add PIT to their network. Then, US dehubs and essentia
34 SQ452 : Hey if they can't get CVG to work, there is always KLUK (Lunken - Cincinnati Municipal)! One can dream, but first Lunken would need a new terminal, ne
35 CIDflyer : That's the problem with CVG. Fares are too high, which generates the low O & D. Also, a 300 flight/day hub is still pretty big to compete with given
36 PITops : Fares have decreased significantly but options for flying are way down. Definately not as many destinations as there once was. So there is pros and c
37 Post contains links Pe@rson : Couple of good articles about CVG: http://www.anna.aero/2008/05/30/delt...ring-high-fare-cincinnati-airport/ http://www.anna.aero/2008/05/30/delt...at
38 Post contains links LoneStarMike : Although it's old (April, 2004) here's an interesting article from the Wall Street Journal. (No subscription required to read it.) It compares a city
39 PITops : This works if the airport officials are willing to work with other carriers. Not the case at some airports.
40 Wukka : I would cry joyous tears of blood if someone came in to take on DL in CVG. Although I don't live there anymore, I could sleep well knowing that my fam
41 Mayor : How does that have anything to do with DL?
42 Aviators99 : Okay, now what?
43 Wukka : Apparently you pick and choose what you want to read. The reference to the DHL ramp was demonstrative of the failure of the airport management and th
44 JOEYCAPPS : I love the mentality of this gentleman. Now is not the time to start an airline: especially once with the AMAZING reputation of SkyBus. In my opinion,
45 Aloha717200 : With DL downsizing CVG this might be a very good move, but the market certainly isn't ideal at the moment. Still, I see good opportunity for this to s
46 ChiGB1973 : Most of these via alliances and connections. I kept looking over your post for a wink or smiley, but didn't find one. This list is bogus for the most
47 Steeler83 : Does CVG see any 747 service at all?
48 DLPhoenix : Anyone who invests his money will lose it, isn't that a sever enough punishment? On the other hand anyone who invests other people's money in such a
49 Lexy : No. They used to see Sabena 747 service, but that has long since left (obviously). n Outside of that, the largest regualr airplane into CVG is DL's 7
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
All Nippon Airways To Start Asian Low Cost Carrier posted Tue Mar 25 2008 18:12:25 by SINGAPORE_AIR
Emirates To Manage New Low -Cost Carrier posted Tue Mar 18 2008 11:28:55 by Beaucaire
Low Cost Carrier To Build Terminal At AUS? posted Wed Jun 27 2007 04:42:03 by Slovacek747
Any Chance Of Low Cost Carrier To TVC? posted Thu Mar 22 2007 22:50:41 by Denver11
SAA's Low Cost Carrier posted Mon Aug 28 2006 08:57:37 by SAA201
US To India: New Low Cost Carrier posted Fri Jun 16 2006 06:25:16 by Aseem
Izan Air New Iranian "low Cost Carrier" posted Tue Jan 10 2006 14:59:21 by Curious
A Potential New Turkish Low-cost Carrier posted Thu Jan 5 2006 01:07:19 by Pe@rson
ANK, JAA, JAS, JALways, A Low Cost Carrier? posted Wed Nov 9 2005 05:52:23 by SQ2
Mexico's First Low-cost Carrier In July posted Tue Apr 12 2005 21:28:51 by Squirrel83
US To India: New Low Cost Carrier posted Fri Jun 16 2006 06:25:16 by Aseem
Izan Air New Iranian "low Cost Carrier" posted Tue Jan 10 2006 14:59:21 by Curious
A Potential New Turkish Low-cost Carrier posted Thu Jan 5 2006 01:07:19 by Pe@rson
ANK, JAA, JAS, JALways, A Low Cost Carrier? posted Wed Nov 9 2005 05:52:23 by SQ2
Mexico's First Low-cost Carrier In July posted Tue Apr 12 2005 21:28:51 by Squirrel83
Mexico's First Low-cost Carrier In July posted Tue Apr 12 2005 21:28:51 by Squirrel83