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Small/Medium Sized Markets To Start An Airline  
User currently offlineJA From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 563 posts, RR: 1
Posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5476 times:

I am kicking around the thought of starting an airline (probably closer to DirectAir in structure, but with both leisure and business markets). It seems that the DirectAir model of chartering a Part 121 operator will allow us to operate an airline that is high quality and experienced. As such, let us kick around the concept of an airline with the following structure:

Focus Cities: GYY/RFD, SWF

I am looking to bring customers from small and medium sized cities to Chicago and New York. What would be some good markets and why?

P.S. - I am also looking at EAS, but EAS means flying into MDW and JFK and while MDW might have good slots available, JFK probably doesn't.

45 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDeltaAVL From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1893 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 5425 times:

AVL.
GSP.


Especially AVL.

AVL's a cash cow. Get the word out about the service, and you'll fill every plane. The retiree base here is tremendous. Hit them, and you've got it made.

And yes, I'm basically trying to sell you my hometown airport.  Wink

And I do think it'd work.



"We break, We bend, With hand in hand, When hope is gone, Just hang on." -Guster
User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4918 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5253 times:

For anyone wanting to go to Chicago and New York, have Gary/RFD and SWF got good enough transport links to the city centre's? From what I have read SWF hasn't. Don't know about Gary and RFD

And is now the best time to be starting an airline anyway?



Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineRidgid727 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1115 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5200 times:



Quoting JA (Thread starter):
It seems that the DirectAir model of chartering a Part 121 operator will allow us to operate an airline that is high quality and experienced. As such, let us kick around the concept of an airline with the following structure:

This is very much the same manner in which David Neeleman & June Morris started Morris Air (later bought up by Southwest Airlines), although there are some very distinct features about Morris Air that was more than just starting an airline. It began as Morris Air Charter, a divison of Morris Travel Service, that largest travel agency in Utah.

when Morris Air Charter began, they operated charter service from SLC-HNL on a weekly basis. Because they had multiple Travel Agencies all over Utah & Southern Idaho, they could easily fill the aircraft with their own clients, and found they could make a profit on the charters to HNL--interestingly enough they found they could do far better selling their travel agency clients a seat on their charter than they could earning 6% commssion (at that time airlines paid travel agencies a 6% commission on domestic flights, and usually a "rebate" of $5.00 to $10.00 per segment--depending on which system they had--Sabre, Apollo, Pars, Etc.) So, with the success of their weekly charter to HNL, they inceased its frequency, and offered other travel agencies the opportunity to sell seats on the aircraft, at an increased commsion from what they would have get by selling standard seats on scheduled carriers.

Knowing they had the client base to fill aircraft to other destinations, they started Air Charter service between SLC and LAX, gradually adding other cities such as SAN, OAK, LAS, & PHX, BOI, SEA etc. Some of these cities being a daily and some with several frequencies per day. Soon they determined they may as well be a certified air carrier, and applied for their own certificate & became a regular air carrier, and grew into many markets outside their base of SLC.

Quoting JA (Thread starter):
I am looking to bring customers from small and medium sized cities to Chicago and New York. What would be some good markets and why?

While this is not a New York or Chicago market, a quality public air charter service between SEA & ANC, would
almost certainly be a success.


User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5803 posts, RR: 15
Reply 4, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5152 times:



Quoting JA (Thread starter):
P.S. - I am also looking at EAS, but EAS means flying into MDW and JFK and while MDW might have good slots available, JFK probably doesn't.

Just to clarify, you are partially right. EAS city routes have traditionally been to a medium or large hub airport to provide for connections.

BUT, if you can get a city to waive its right for service to a medium or large hub, an EAS subsidy can be used to another airport. Here in the west VIS and MCE have gone through that. They ended up for a time with flights to VGT instead of LAS.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineMOBflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1209 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5135 times:

Am I correct in believing that all one has to do for public charters is to a) be a travel agency, b) file a prospectus with the DOT, and c) follow the rules about escrow accounts, etc?

I think you should consider the other tertiary NYC airports, atleast until SWF becomes better connected. By this I mean consider ISP, maybe even FRG. Also, ABE or TTN could serve the PHL/NYC areas at once, and ACY makes a nice alternative to PHL as well.

As for which markets you should choose, here are the largest in terms of weekly O&D without nonstop service from NYC. The relevance of this will depend largely on the projected frequency.

+MO: 2078 (includes MOB, PNS, and GPT)
FAT: 678
BTR: 624
TLH: 540
DAB: 461
EUG: 416
SHV: 368
CRP: 355
DLH: 311
MRY: 307
MFR: 303
AVL: 302
LBB: 302
AMA: 271
SBP: 259
CHO: 251

and the same from NYC:
+MO: 2877
ELP: 1491
TLH: 1124
COS: 1119
EWY: 1109
ICT: 1047
JAC: 1025
ASE: 919
BOI: 900
CID: 867
GEG: 848
SBA: 827
SBN: 776
MLI: 733
BZN: 706

All this is from PAXstats Beta 3, and is from YE Q1 2008.


User currently offlineJA From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 563 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5071 times:



Quoting Humberside (Reply 2):

SWF is borderline. They have a shuttle from the commuter rail station in Beacon to the airport. The commuter rail from Beacon goes right into Penn Station. So I would say borderline. A regional express train could get to Beacon in 90 minutes. However, I would probably put in an hourly express bus from NYC to service SWF. It would take similar time, but would not require a transfer. By comparison, the buses from Manhattan to JFK are carded 60-80 minutes, LGA 50-70 minutes, and EWR 45 minutes.

GYY has a commuter rail station 1.5 miles away. The ride in is about 45 minutes on a local, so an express can do it in 30-35 minutes.

I am still researching RFD now. I will be very happy if rail service is nearby, but if all else fails, I would also insert express bus service there.


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25170 posts, RR: 85
Reply 7, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5042 times:
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Quoting Ridgid727 (Reply 3):
This is very much the same manner in which David Neeleman & June Morris started Morris Air (later bought up by Southwest Airlines),

In any discussion of Morris Air, I'm not sure how David Neeleman gets first billing.  confused 

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineJA From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 563 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5033 times:

"I think you should consider the other tertiary NYC airports, atleast until SWF becomes better connected. By this I mean consider ISP, maybe even FRG. Also, ABE or TTN could serve the PHL/NYC areas at once, and ACY makes a nice alternative to PHL as well."

I agree with you in general, but then we would have to tackle the issue of growth and flexibility. In light of the fact that 757/767 aircraft would be weight-restricted in wet weather at any airport with runway lengths around 6500 feet, that knocks out a lot of airports. This is what also concerns me about GYY and this is why I'm looking at RFD as a replacement. Granted, I would look at a supply of 717s or MD-80s from a reliable charter operator as an alternative to run these airports regularly. In terms of location, TTN is by far the best spot. It's six miles away from the Trenton rail station.

FRG seems to have restrictions on the number of pax that can go through customs.

ISP would be good with 717s/737s/MD-80s.

ABE and ACY are on the fringe for a NYC passenger pool.

Ideally, it would be better to charter from a 121 operator that doesn't overlap. It might make G4 the best pick for these markets as they operate with no problem out of airports with shorter runways.


User currently offlineRidgid727 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1115 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4952 times:

Quoting Mariner (Reply 7):
In any discussion of Morris Air, I'm not sure how David Neeleman gets first billing.

Neeleman is June's nephew, who headed up the charter operations at Morris Travel, which later became Morris Air., He doesn't neccessarily get first billing as June was most instrumental in getting the airline started, however-David is the one who was instrumental in taking it from a scheduled Charter company to a scheduled airline. I worked at Morris at the time.

[Edited 2008-09-11 00:40:01]

User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25170 posts, RR: 85
Reply 10, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4927 times:
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Quoting Ridgid727 (Reply 9):
He doesn't neccessarily get first billing as June was most instrumental in getting the airline started, however-David is the one who was instrumental in taking it from a scheduled Charter company to a scheduled airline.

She started the charter operation. She was CEO of the scheduled airline - the first woman CEO of an airline in the US.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1154/is_n8_v81/ai_14163372

"When the Transportation Department granted airline certification in December 1992, Morris Air Service became Morris Air, and June Morris became the nation's first woman owner and CEO of a jet-service airline."

She initiated the sale to Southwest. She is the one of whom Southwest's Herb Kelleher said: "we are kindred spirits."

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineNopeotone From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 158 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4807 times:

RFD has no rail link to chicago. They do have buses that run a few times a day to Union Station, but not from the airport. They are successful, though, in bringing in some people from the western chicago suburbs to the airport instead of O'Hare and Midway. But using GYY/RFD would cover Chicago, both are good airports and have had their troubles, GYY more recently, not to say RFD hasn't lost any service either recently.

When the economy improves and oil drops or stays put, expect to see an increase in passenger traffic at RFD and hopefully GYY again. My bet, although I could be completely wrong, is that oil huddles around $100-$110 a barrel for the rest of the year (unless Venezuela/Russia conflicts heat up, Iran, etc.). I think oil at $100 a barrel is actually a good thing - though I believe airlines should justify costs of flights with oil at $125 range, as that could easily happen again.

GYY has rail service near by and I believe when Skybus was briefly there before they filed Ch. 7 that they had bus service also? I believe BravoGolf (if that's his name) knows quite a bit more about GYY and can provide with better details.

Question is though, what cities would you connect the RFD/GYY (Chicago Market) to? It's a hit or miss - and more of a miss I think.


User currently offlineKcrwFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3814 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4772 times:



Quoting MOBflyer (Reply 5):
As for which markets you should choose, here are the largest in terms of weekly O&D without nonstop service from NYC. The relevance of this will depend largely on the projected frequency.

+MO: 2078 (includes MOB, PNS, and GPT)
FAT: 678
BTR: 624
TLH: 540
DAB: 461
EUG: 416
SHV: 368
CRP: 355
DLH: 311
MRY: 307
MFR: 303
AVL: 302
LBB: 302
AMA: 271
SBP: 259
CHO: 251

and the same from NYC:
+MO: 2877
ELP: 1491
TLH: 1124
COS: 1119
EWY: 1109
ICT: 1047
JAC: 1025
ASE: 919
BOI: 900
CID: 867
GEG: 848
SBA: 827
SBN: 776
MLI: 733
BZN: 706

AVL has flights to EWR. CHO has flights to LGA. CID has american eagle to LGA.


User currently offlineJA From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 563 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4611 times:

My plan was to actually pair nearby markets up to fly to GYY. In doing a bit more research, RFD is too far away to serve Chicago. GYY is in the right spot. Even MDW may be an idea, since it still has capacity to serve more planes.

For example, I would route a flight SWF-ISP-GYY or AVL-GSO-GYY. Allegiant tends to serve most routes 2x weekly (sometimes 3x weekly). The idea is to pair up the smaller markets so that they could be served 5-6x weekly. Some of the listed markets by MOBflyer would be long haul markets. I would route the long hauls through COS or GYY if the market was large enough, but it would be better to keep to flights under 1000 miles.

The smaller markets to serve is the tough part. However, I have determined that most of the Allegiant stations are good places to start because Allegiant can ground handle. In addition, Allegiant tend to stimulate traffic, so if we were to serve the same locations, but fly to New York and Chicago, I think it would be well used. In the East, New York and Washington are the best leisure/business mix cities, but the Midwest is all about Chicago and possibly Houston.


User currently offlineMOBflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1209 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 4489 times:



Quoting JA (Reply 13):
I have determined that most of the Allegiant stations are good places to start because Allegiant can ground handle.

Allegiant almost always contracts out spoke city ground handling. You COULD enter contracts with whoever G4 contracts with, however.

Quoting JA (Reply 13):
In addition, Allegiant tend to stimulate traffic, so if we were to serve the same locations, but fly to New York and Chicago, I think it would be well used.

G4's traffic stimulation can be attributed to their marketing, much of which is underwritten by airports, municipalities, or visitor bureaus that lobby so hard for the service. It isn't really possible to piggyback on someone else's success and stimulation to markets with different profiles, as both destinations and that of their visitors.

Quoting JA (Reply 13):
The idea is to pair up the smaller markets so that they could be served 5-6x weekly.

I like that idea. SkyValue, which you may recall, was based at GYY. They had flights that ran the likes of GYY-PIE-SFB-GYY, and planned GYY-IWA-LAX area. Its sort of reverse of your idea, but the point remains.


User currently offlineKcrwFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3814 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 4467 times:



Quoting JA (Reply 8):
I agree with you in general, but then we would have to tackle the issue of growth and flexibility. In light of the fact that 757/767 aircraft would be weight-restricted in wet weather at any airport with runway lengths around 6500 feet, that knocks out a lot of airports.

You wont have any problems getting a 757 off 6500ft.

Quoting MOBflyer (Reply 14):
I like that idea. SkyValue, which you may recall, was based at GYY. They had flights that ran the likes of GYY-PIE-SFB-GYY, and planned GYY-IWA-LAX area. Its sort of reverse of your idea, but the point remains.



Quoting JA (Reply 13):
For example, I would route a flight SWF-ISP-GYY or AVL-GSO-GYY.

I disagree with you guys thoughts on this process. Airlines have quit flying the majority of routes like this, simply because its not typically economical. Adding a stop on a route also adds another set of costs, and another level of inefficiency.



JA, what type of aircraft are you looking at using? What types of fares/services/amenities are you looking at offering? Standalone flights or Packages? All of this factors in to where you should and shouldnt fly.


User currently offlineJetBlueJackets From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 175 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4434 times:

horrible horrible idea

who's money are you playing with?

Just give me half of what your start up is, and it will save you the public embarassment of failing miserably.


User currently offlineJA From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 563 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4309 times:

"JA, what type of aircraft are you looking at using? What types of fares/services/amenities are you looking at offering? Standalone flights or Packages? All of this factors in to where you should and shouldnt fly."

Right now, I am looking to use 737s and 757s. I would like to keep the initial number of aircraft down to 10 or less. 4-5 is a good number.

There would be 2-3 fare buckets planned for each market. Y and Y+ would be offered. Y+ would essentially be similar to WN's business select, except that it would be priced at the highest fare level. There would be only snack service offered. The flights would be standalone flights.


"Just give me half of what your start up is, and it will save you the public embarassment of failing miserably."

I have committed to nothing as yet. Rather, I am putting my brainstorming in the open in order to get useful feedback. Remember that the startup cost of an indirect air carrier that would charter aircraft is substantially cheaper than the standard airline setup. My biggest concern is not whether it would be viable (it is), but how to structure an airline that produces good yields. It is clear that small/medium markets offer this and it is also clear that a few larger short haul markets can also provide this.

Believe it or not, this is a good time to start a niche airline. The RIGHT second tier airports will allow very good on-time performance and many fewer operational breakdowns.


"I disagree with you guys thoughts on this process. Airlines have quit flying the majority of routes like this, simply because its not typically economical. Adding a stop on a route also adds another set of costs, and another level of inefficiency."

Typically, you are correct. The issue here is direct service to two major cities. Chartering a plane and positioning it is expensive and the only way to make money on it is to have good utilization. What does good utilization mean? It means using planes 6-7 days per week. The idea is to be able to provide almost daily service to these smaller markets and generally that means pairing them up. In the case of NYC, it may also mean flying to two satellite airports in order to tap the full market potential of the region. By having those flights fly almost every day, it becomes a realistic option for those with fewer options. Hub and spoke works very well, but a route starting and ending at the same place on a triangular or four point box pattern is the most efficient way to move people.


User currently offlineACdreamliner From UK - Scotland, joined May 2005, 519 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4300 times:



Quoting Humberside (Reply 2):
And is now the best time to be starting an airline anyway?

in some ways, the perfect time, its the time for perfected business models and low cost bases...



Where are you going?
User currently offlineToltommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3289 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4291 times:



Quoting DeltaAVL (Reply 1):
Especially AVL

You don't build an airline around retirees. Period. AVL isn't nearly a big enough market in terms of O&D to build an airline at.

I like RFD. The same folks who DRIVE or use a shuttle service to MDW from the northwestern suburbs of Chicago could just as easily drive to RFD. The majority of MDW travellers arrive on something other than public transport. RFD could easily draw traffic down I-90 from MSN as well.


User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4918 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 4269 times:



Quoting ACdreamliner (Reply 18):
Quoting Humberside (Reply 2):
And is now the best time to be starting an airline anyway?

in some ways, the perfect time, its the time for perfected business models and low cost bases...

But the wrong time to be getting finance from banks. Yes there are opportunities out there but convincing a bank (or most private investors) of them will be easier said than done



Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 4268 times:

Forget about making your airline business oriented and wait till eh mortgage mess is over before expanding to a leisure airline

Quoting JA (Reply 13):
For example, I would route a flight SWF-ISP-GYY or AVL-GSO-GYY

While I admire your gumption, this is not an idea that will work. I dont think youll find these markets are stimulative.

Wait till the mortgage mess ends and have flights to CUN, LAS, SFB, like Allegiant does.

Or go start and airline in Asia and a leaisure airline from US/Canada to UK or Netherlands

Quoting JA (Reply 17):
Typically, you are correct. The issue here is direct service to two major cities. Chartering a plane and positioning it is expensive and the only way to make money on it is to have good utilization. What does good utilization mean? It means using planes 6-7 days per week.

No I think your wrong here. Youre right if oil is $25 but at $100 or more added flying will cost MC>MR, youll lose your shirt. Reason Allegiant makes money is they have fully paid for MD-80s that probably have lower than average utilization

Quoting JA (Reply 13):
Allegiant tend to stimulate traffic, so if we were to serve the same locations, but fly to New York and Chicago

WRONG..Allegiant doesnt stimulate traffic. It is their choice of markets that stimulate traffic. If G4 flew PIA-LGA, they might stimulate 100%, but PIA-LAS was stimulated 1000%. The draw is the market of LAS which is very stimulative. LGA isnt. Nor is any business market.


User currently offlineMSNfan From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 156 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 4260 times:

MSN-just kidding, but wouldn't that be great? We could use an LCC and some competition ever since Allegiant was driven out by NW.


Dentistry: Because everyone smiles in the same language!
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3741 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 4243 times:

I like the idea of using GYY and SWF for a new airline. I used to live in the GYY area (Porter County, to be exact), and I've flown through SWF before, back when Skybus was around. It's a very nice airport. Those are prime markets to start a new carrier.

But the key is that you have to have markets that people want to go to. Some markets that have worked out of GYY in the past have included SFB, LAS, and PIE. And if marketed correctly and with proper frequency (2-3x daily), GYY-SWF would work very well as a "hassle and congestion-free gateway to NYC". People would be more than willing to take alternatives to JFK, LGA, and EWR now... with the delays at the big three airports in NYC averaging over an hour, someone taking the commuter train (South Shore/Metro-North) and connecting bus and flying GYY-SWF would actually come out ahead over flying ORD-LGA/EWR. Also, a simple frequent-flyer program a la Southwest Rapid Rewards would work to lure customers from the claws of UA and AA.

Forget about AVL. There's not even enough demand out of ORD... all the planes flying AVL-ORD are 50-seat RJs with minimal frequency. What has worked out of GYY in the past are leisure routes... remember, when the airlines serving GYY failed on leisure routes, it was because of the airlines' own troubles, not GYY. GYY routes were actually among the top-performing routes for Southeast and Hooters Air, among others. (Skybus didn't last long enough at GYY for conclusive results, but the planes were rather full.)

Anyway, that's my 2 cents...



Primary Airport: FWA/Alternate Airport: DTW/Not employed by the FWACAA or their partners
User currently offlineMOBflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1209 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4181 times:



Quoting Toltommy (Reply 19):
You don't build an airline around retirees. Period.

While in actuality G4's customer base is apparently diverse, their prospectus and annual reports say that their target market, and one they see as viable an growing, is "baby boomers" that are reaching retiring age and have relatively large amounts of disposable income.

From their IPO Prospectus:

Quote:
We have positioned our business to take advantage of current lifestyle and demographic trends in the U.S. we believe are positive drivers for the leisure travel industry. The most notable demographic shift occurring in the U.S. is the aging of the baby boomer generation as they enter their peak earning years and have more time and disposable income to spend on leisure travel. We believe a large percentage of our customers fall within the baby boomer demographic and we target these customers through the use of advertisements in more than 410 print circulations.



25 DeltaAVL : Who said anything about building an airline around AVL? [Edited 2008-09-13 19:13:31]
26 MOBflyer : Southwest? Best I remember, in the name of frequency, they often pair cities together with up to TWO stops.
27 EXAAUADL : But they dont fly between cities where there is no traffic...They fly say BWI-BNA-HOU-PHX-LAX, there is substantial traffic on each leg. GYY-SWF-ISP
28 JA : "Or go start and airline in Asia and a leaisure airline from US/Canada to UK or Netherlands" One of the reasons why I like SWF is that it can support
29 MOBflyer : No offense, but I'm now confused. So in addition to flying from NYC and CHI to small markets, you also want to fly between them, and possibly also in
30 ACdreamliner : working in finance, we have news that the downturn is nearing an end, so its not all as much doom and gloom on the borrowing side. but then again, we
31 MOBflyer : Agreed. And downturns are the times to prepare and organize an airline, because as the economy is cyclical, the airline that was beginning formation
32 NA747 : What a horrible horrible comment. Give the man the opportunity to become succesful through whatever dreams and ideas he may have as opposed to shooti
33 Prinair : Let's start a new LCC out of El Paso. We can call it Aero Taquito or Nacho Jet.
34 413X3 : why a 757, why not a prop. how about a dash 8 -300 or -400. I can't believe anybody would finance this business venture.
35 JA : Thanks for the information from all of the contributors. I did some research on SkyValue and found that their GYY-AZA route was actually their stronge
36 JA : Simple. How many charter companies do you know that fly props? Ryan would acquire one and get it for you, I'm sure, but the certification takes awhil
37 PavlovsDog : Personally I think the best idea for an airline in the US is to fly scheduled turboprop service between connecting medium sized markets in the Eastern
38 Humberside : Is GYY in a position to dictate what airports potential airlines would fly to? Surely they will take whatever service they can get?
39 Jeffrey1970 : Why would you make that information public so soon? Wouldn't you want to kee your competitors guessing as to what your focus cities will be?
40 USXguy : No one in Chicago wants to use Gary. The only folks who want to use Gary are those in SE Chicago and NW Indiana. If you want to do this right, focus o
41 JA : Saab 340s are good for EAS, but their per seat costs today are around 30 cents/mile. That is too high for standard markets. Remember that the direct
42 AVLAirlineFreq : Much to my regret, there are currently no flights between ORD and AVL. (Although the market could certainly support UA or AA CRJ service.) You must b
43 N7190JR : Islip has great potential, there is just the problem of WN. Though GYY-ISP might work. You would make me the happiest man alive to see FRG have sched
44 JA : GYY wants service to the following areas: Las Vegas Florida cities Atlanta California cities New York This is based on studies that they have conducte
45 MOBflyer : Yes, XE's charters seem very reasonable, especially if you price a "multi-city" and plan out your aircraft's rotations for about three days.
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