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MCO Flight Cuts  
User currently offlineDoug From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 854 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5624 times:

Does anyone have some updated info about any additional cuts forthcoming at MCO and with these cuts will MIA overtake MCO as Florida's busiest airport?

65 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9211 posts, RR: 20
Reply 1, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5429 times:

Aside from all of the PIT-FLA flights being cut, I am not sure. That includes 11 weekly PIT-MCO flights on US. TPA and I think FLL are also being axed by US...

I believe those go into affect early in 2009 IIRC.

[Edited 2008-09-10 10:04:33]


Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineRookinla From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 307 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5266 times:

Rumor has it that JM will be dropping MCO-MBJ...I haven't seen the official release yet but that is a very possible cut.

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32791 posts, RR: 72
Reply 3, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days ago) and read 5170 times:



Quoting Doug (Thread starter):
Does anyone have some updated info about any additional cuts forthcoming at MCO and with these cuts will MIA overtake MCO as Florida's busiest airport?

Starting in October, MIA will already overtake MCO in terms of daily passenger seats. While MCO's daily seats are down around 12-13%, MIA will be flat (domestic at MIA is down about 2-3%, but thanks to an increase in international, there is no significant decrease).



a.
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 4, posted (6 years 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5124 times:

On a positive note, MCO will get TAM GRU-MCO daily flights with the B767 or A330.

Rgs,


User currently offlineWF2BNN From Norway, joined Dec 2004, 106 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5071 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 4):
On a positive note, MCO will get TAM GRU-MCO daily flights with the B767 or A330.

When will these start? Hope to fly this route in May.

Mateo



What goes up, must come down.
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 6, posted (6 years 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5021 times:



Quoting WF2BNN (Reply 5):
When will these start? Hope to fly this route in May.

It will start in November 2008 daily TAM A330 GRU-MCO:

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...eneral_aviation/read.main/4122798/

Rgs,


User currently offlineBuddys747 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 527 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (6 years 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 4528 times:

MDT and CMH are being added ,at least that's a positive note.

User currently offlineMIAMIx707 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (6 years 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4420 times:

The Air Comet flight from Madrid to MCO has been running with A343 lately, instead of the A310. Wonder if they will fly that route again, these are flights until the summer season ends I think

m


User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7546 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (6 years 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 4045 times:



Quoting Rookinla (Reply 2):
Rumor has it that JM will be dropping MCO-MBJ...I haven't seen the official release yet but that is a very possible cut.

Are they not doing well on this route or something?


Do they also fly MCO-Kingston?



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineRookinla From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 307 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (6 years 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 4015 times:



Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 9):
Are they not doing well on this route or something?

MCO-MBJ is not a high-yield route at all. JM is in trouble financially and they will have to make cuts to stay afloat. Unfortunately MCO is likely to go. Although I did find it curious that they actually bumped the flight to daily this year. LF is generally in the low 70s I believe...seasonally a bit lower.

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 9):
Do they also fly MCO-Kingston?

No...They haven't for a while. KIN was a tag-on to MCO-MBJ.

If JM does drop this route I would be surprised if B6 didn't give it a shot. I think that they would have sufficient feed at MCO to make it work.


User currently offlineDTWAGENT From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1283 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3911 times:

Didn't JM just drop FLL/MBJ service too???

User currently offlineAirJamaica From Jamaica, joined Aug 2006, 2528 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3869 times:



Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 9):
Are they not doing well on this route or something?


Do they also fly MCO-Kingston?

JM does OK on the MCO route. Not a 'high yielder'. It is not as profitable as core VFR routes such as YYZ, FLL or JFK but it has its fair share of VFR traffic and the leisure traffic from Jamaica. ( Disney of-course ). There is a fairly decent sized Jamaican population in MCO. If they do cut the MCO route it is not because it was not making any money. They would be aiming at focusing more on core VFR routes.

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 9):
Do they also fly MCO-Kingston?

Usually the route is MBJ/MCO/MBJ. At other times its MBJ/MCO/MBJ/KIN, KIN/MBJ/MCO/MBJ, KIN/MBJ/MCO,MBJ,KIN. In the past it had flown at times: MBJ/KIN/MCO but that was long ago. Haven't seen that routing in ages.

Quoting DTWAGENT (Reply 11):
Didn't JM just drop FLL/MBJ service too???

Not at all. They serve FLL much more than how they currently serve MIA. Lots of VFR traffic despite competition from NK and AA ( FLL/KIN ). They did drop BGI/FLL though.



greenheart
User currently offlinePRAirbus From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2005, 1139 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (6 years 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3776 times:

Airtran is adding a 3rd MCO-SJU soon on 737-700; MCO-SJU would have over 7/8 nonstops daily between FL, B6 and NK to make up for AA cancelled route to SJU (3 daily AB6 each way  Sad )

User currently offlineMIAMIx707 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (6 years 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 3722 times:



Quoting AirJamaica (Reply 12):
JM does OK on the MCO route. Not a 'high yielder'. It is not as profitable as core VFR routes such as YYZ, FLL or JFK but it has its fair share of VFR traffic and the leisure traffic from Jamaica. ( Disney of-course ). There is a fairly decent sized Jamaican population in MCO. If they do cut the MCO route it is not because it was not making any money. They would be aiming at focusing more on core VFR routes.

Thanks for the specifics. I'd be very surprised if they cut MCO, JM has been flying to Orlando for ages, so they should be doing decently enough.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32791 posts, RR: 72
Reply 15, posted (6 years 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 3685 times:



Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 14):

Thanks for the specifics. I'd be very surprised if they cut MCO, JM has been flying to Orlando for ages, so they should be doing decently enough.

JM is planning on discontinuing Orlando in January, but that plan can change. Orlando and Chicago are their worst performing U.S. routes.



a.
User currently offlineAirJamaica From Jamaica, joined Aug 2006, 2528 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3582 times:



Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 14):
Thanks for the specifics. I'd be very surprised if they cut MCO, JM has been flying to Orlando for ages, so they should be doing decently enough.

I wouldn't be overly surprised if they cut the MCO route though I would prefer if it continued. Probably with one of the A319's it will acquire with less than daily frequency it may perform better. It has been serving that city from I was in prep school. It did MBJ/TPA/MCO for a while as well way back then. It was also discontinued for a while and restarted again. Their focus is now being directed on core routes so a ORD or MCO cut wouldnt't surprise me.



greenheart
User currently offlinePhatfarmlines From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1358 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (6 years 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3510 times:



Quoting AirJamaica (Reply 16):
I wouldn't be overly surprised if they cut the MCO route though I would prefer if it continued. Probably with one of the A319's it will acquire with less than daily frequency it may perform better. It has been serving that city from I was in prep school. It did MBJ/TPA/MCO for a while as well way back then. It was also discontinued for a while and restarted again. Their focus is now being directed on core routes so a ORD or MCO cut wouldnt't surprise me.

It also does not help that codeshare partner DL axed MCO as a focus city, so any additional feed gained through DL flights are gone.


User currently offlineWoody71 From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 85 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3458 times:



Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 8):
The Air Comet flight from Madrid to MCO has been running with A343 lately, instead of the A310. Wonder if they will fly that route again, these are flights until the summer season ends I think

Does anyone know more about this route? Will it stay? How it's doing? If it leaves, will it return?


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 19, posted (6 years 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3428 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting Doug (Thread starter):
Does anyone have some updated info about any additional cuts forthcoming at MCO and with these cuts will MIA overtake MCO as Florida's busiest airport?



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 4):
On a positive note, MCO will get TAM GRU-MCO daily flights with the B767 or A330.

Will be with A332, daily, and should begin by the 3rd week of November. Flights should be on the system in up to 2 weeks.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineMIAMIx707 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (6 years 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3305 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 15):
Orlando and Chicago are their worst performing U.S. routes.

JFK, MIA, etc probably have always performed better than MCO, that's how it's always been. Some routes perform better than others, doesn't necessarily mean a route should be cut just because it doesn't perform as well as another.

Quoting AirJamaica (Reply 16):
It was also discontinued for a while rand restarted again.


You are right, the route was discontinued for a time somewhere around the mid or late '90s.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 19):
Will be with A332, daily, and should begin by the 3rd week of November. Flights should be on the system in up to 2 weeks.

So why does MAH4546 keep saying Orlando is not good enough to get the A332 and so it'll be 4x a week with a 763? As usual he never states sources (not a knock on our buddy here, just stating the obvious).

Because I mean, c'mon, we all know by now MCO is a trashy tourist destination and it's all tourists to Disney World, why would any airline sacrifice anything but a cattle-class configured plane there? TAM sending an A332??? Impossible  Yeah sure That plane is going to premium destinations, like MIA  Wink


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 21, posted (6 years 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3279 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 20):
So why does MAH4546 keep saying Orlando is not good enough to get the A332 and so it'll be 4x a week with a 763? As usual he never states sources (not a knock on our buddy here, just stating the obvious).

And you can expect, if the flight performs well (and it's expected as TAM is a smart airline and negotiated with tour operators) to become 10x weekly and even double daily by 2009. At least for Summer season 2009 is expected to become 2x daily. TAM should send to MCO 2 A332 with a less premium configuration (42C 185Y) or even remove 1 to 2 rows of Business seats to add 3 to 6 of Economy (with this we shall see a 30C 233Y). It all depends if they decide to begin with 1 or 2 A332.

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 20):
Because I mean, c'mon, we all know by now MCO is a trashy tourist destination and it's all tourists to Disney World, why would any airline sacrifice anything but a cattle-class configured plane there? TAM sending an A332???

The A332 can be more or less premium (More: 7F 30C or 4F 36C Less: 0F 42C), but they can introduce a 4th configuration.
Yes, full of people looking for Disney & others, but able to pay US$ 1,500 for the first Y seat sold.
Imagine Yields... far from being low !
Of course, there's also a VFR market able to pay US$ 900 per seat, and some Business demand (like Conventions Bureau, Big operators, Incentive Tours from Brazil, and wealthy people from Brazil, a country with 225,000 millionaries)

But be in mind, MCO will work very well while the exchange rate is interesting for Brazilians. At BRL 2.40 = US$ 1.00 i believe we will see the "break-even" for the route and it would demand US citizens to fill the gap. If not, it should be reduced.

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 20):
That plane is going to premium destinations, like MIA

Even MIA lost TAM First Class service and uses a less premium A332 nowadays. In fact 2 of the 6 "terrible" and old ones, no AVOD. Real premium routes on TAM are CDG, LHR and JFK.
AA runs 4 daily flights to Brazil, only 1 is B772. At least 1 flight is because of MCO.
I'm not saying the market is premium or not, i'm just showing the facts.

[Edited 2008-09-12 14:38:08]


New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 22, posted (6 years 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3245 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Info Added (not possible to edit):

TAM's flight Sao Paulo-Orlando is expected to begin Nov 10, 2008



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32791 posts, RR: 72
Reply 23, posted (6 years 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3184 times:

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 20):

So why does MAH4546 keep saying Orlando is not good enough to get the A332 and so it'll be 4x a week with a 763? As usual he never states sources (not a knock on our buddy here, just stating the obvious).

Because TAM was planning on taking delivery of a fourth 763 this fall for the Orlando route, and that 763 is on hold, hence the use of the A330.

If the 4th 763 arrives, I wouldn't be surprised to see it put to Orlando. The Orlando route will use a denser configured A330 when it is launched. I'm shocked that they are putting an A330 on MCO-GRU instead of JFK-GIG or MIA-GIG. It makes much more sense on the latter two, but the Orlando flight is relying entirely on contracts with holiday companies, so TAM knows what they can fill with little guess work.

Don't be surprised to see a shake-up in equipment usage between TAM's new MIA-GIG, MCO-GRU, JFK-GIG, and MIA-BSB routes next year depending on how each perform.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 21):
AA runs 4 daily flights to Brazil, only 1 is B772.

Starting 02NOV08, all three year-round MIA-GRU daily flights will permanently be operated with the three-class 777-200ER. The only 763 on MIA-GRU will be the 4th seasonal frequency. AA has wanted to do this for years, and they finally have the equipment to do it.

[Edited 2008-09-12 16:49:13]

[Edited 2008-09-12 16:50:40]


a.
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 24, posted (6 years 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3177 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 23):
Starting 02NOV08, all three year-round MIA-GRU daily flights will permanently be operated with the three-class 777-200ER. The only 763 on MIA-GRU will be the 4th seasonal frequency. AA has wanted to do this for years, and they finally have the equipment to do it.

Where the planes come from ? Is AA dropping routes or downgrading flights on a permanent basis ?



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
25 MAH4546 : BOS-LHR is now 2x 763s. That frees up two 772s, so now MIA-GRU is 3x 772 year-round.
26 MAH4546 : A sign of TAM's inability to compete with AA's premium product at MIA, and not more than that. Miami is the most important business long-haul destina
27 LipeGIG : Not in fact. This title goes to New York with 5 daily (AA, 2 TAM, CO, DL) + 3 weekly (JAL). Then comes MIA. MIA is bigger in the Brazilian Summer. TA
28 DeltaL1011man : MCO is still a focus city. Much much smaller now but still a FC.
29 MAH4546 : Yes, "in fact." Sao Paulo-Miami is one of the most traveled international city pairs between the U.S. and anywhere in the world, and the most travele
30 Hardiwv : I am surprised that MCO handles more px than MIA on a daily basis...of course, MIA handles far more international pax. But you may note that the Real
31 MAH4546 : Correct. NYC-GRU has more daily seats, but while New York's Brazil service is all concentrated in Sao Paulo, with four weekly flights to Rio soon, Mi
32 LipeGIG : Now talking about Miami-Brazil i agree with you. In the end 3 weekly B744 year round against a daily B763 during almost 2 months, the advantage conti
33 MAH4546 : Even if we are just talking about GRU, in terms of daily O&D, MIA-GRU is bigger than NYC-GRU, and is the largest O&D market between the U.S. and any
34 Hardiwv : Your two points above are correct. I personally think we will get above 2.0 rate by the end of the year. But the oil has become cheaper @ USD100 a ba
35 MAH4546 : MIA-LHR is more profitable than JFK-LHR for American Airlines (in fact, it is AA's single most profitable European flight), even though JFK-LHR clear
36 Hardiwv : Indeed, but this is the nature of competition. There are far less supply of seats MIA-Europe as compared JFK-Europe. Very interesting information. An
37 LipeGIG : Need to be more people as DOT reports never show less than 2.300 JFK-GIG pax. During the peak season this number goes to 3.100. The size of the marke
38 MAH4546 : It's not a myth. Low-yield does not mean not unprofitable, but it is a low-yielding destination. Just look at the classes of services offered by MCO'
39 Hardiwv : Most of the airlines have diminished if not abolished F class. We know that many airlines sometimes fill their F cabin with upgrades and mileage tick
40 MAH4546 : Okay, most have, but not BA, VS, and LH. Virgin Atlantic offers F class on every flight - although destinations from Gatwick and Manchester have smal
41 LipeGIG : 3,300 per month isn't 60 per day. It's 110. 2,300 become around 70. Agree. And AF says and knows it lacks business offer to GIG. Here i agree with yo
42 Hardiwv : Agree, whether airlines decide to supply F seats to a market is a strong indication of yield generation, no doubt. Rgs,
43 MAH4546 : Every major airline except JetBlue has reduced capacity by at least 9% at MCO, including Southwest. AA reduced by 21%, for example. And not all that
44 LipeGIG : Lets see for how long JetBlue can hold the some or more capacity at MCO.
45 Post contains links MIAMIx707 : What you write is much closer to reality than what's often presented here by those who have no idea and think Orlando is mostly tourists because they
46 CitrusCritter : How is Disney "a good distance away from the heavily populated areas of Orange County?" It is close to Hunter's Creek, Windermere, & Dr. Phillips. Wi
47 Post contains links MIAMIx707 : please stop nitpicking and look where Disney is in this map http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp...:-81.388501:0::/io:0:::::f:EN:M:/e Most of what's
48 MIAMIx707 : road traffic, that is m
49 CitrusCritter : Yes, I know where Disney is on a map. I grew up in Orlando and witnessed the development around Disney. It's not nitpicking to refute a statement tha
50 MIAMIx707 : Then it sounds like you didn't really live in "Orlando" but if you say so
51 FlyMIA : Really? Its not like Miami is not growing either especially with the weak dollar Europeans are buying in Miami. Miami is the not third largest intern
52 LOT767-300ER : Is that a joke? Im in Orlando practically week and drive from Dayton on I-4 all the way through and Ive never been stuck in traffic for more than 30
53 FlyMIA : I have been stuck in that US-1 Downtown-Gables traffic many times. I just want to go 5-6 miles down the road to UM and from 4:30pm-6:30pm it can take
54 Post contains images MIAMIx707 : All the way from Ohio? That's pretty far... You mean Daytona and from there to Orlando it isn't bad at all. However the fact you associate I-4 with "
55 Hardiwv : Your points above are correct and I agree with you. Orlando is much, much more than Disney. " target=_blank>http://www.orlandoairports.net/marke...e.
56 Post contains links MAH4546 : I know facts are a difficult thing for you to use. Here are the facts. Not like it matters, you ignore them constantly. And keep in mind these links
57 Doug : Miamix707 if you do not think 8 percent or 9 percent does not matter take a look at flightaware.com and look at the drop in traffic at MCO since Labor
58 MIAMIx707 : And I guess this wouldn't have happened in other years? Of course you're going to see a drop after the labor day peak Funny you talk about facts, wha
59 CitrusCritter : Looks who's nitpicking now. Yes, I grew up in Orlando. I guess your definition of "Orlando" is "Thornton Park." Is Dr. Phillips not Orlando-ish enoug
60 Post contains links MAH4546 : News flash: Plans change. The original plan of 4x weekly 767 changed. Simple as that. There are plenty of TAM threads on this board from throughout t
61 AV8orWALK : Oh. My. God. My airport is bigger than your airport. My traffic is worse than your traffic. Guys, cool it. This is the stupidest argument I've ever re
62 FLALEFTY : The issue with MCO is that, for domestic airlines, it tends to be a low-yield, FF miles cash-in market. After the 9/11 terrorist attacks, similar dome
63 PanAm330 : I-4 traffic from DAB is nothing compared to Miami traffic, and the A380 is most certainly not coming to MCO before MIA. End of story.
64 MIAMIx707 : No we can't lol Anyways, it would be nice if the flight arrives during the daytime so we can see this baby in daylight. The days of Trans Brasil/Vast
65 Post contains links MAH4546 : The TAM 763 to MCO might be back on again. As LipeGIG reports in another thread, TAM is looking to acquire an ex-Air Madagascar 763 for the Orlando ro
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