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American Performer: Israeli Security Made Me Dance  
User currently offlineTsaord From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5407 times:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/israel_airport_dance


"By JOSEF FEDERMAN, Associated Press Writer
Tue Sep 9, 3:28 PM ET
JERUSALEM - A performer with the famed Alvin Ailey dance troupe on Tuesday said he was twice forced to perform steps for Israeli airport security officers to prove his identity before he was permitted to enter the country.

Abdur-Rahim Jackson, an eight-year veteran of the dance ensemble, said he was singled out by Israel's renowned airport security because he has a Muslim name. He called the experience embarrassing and said at one point, one of the officers even suggested he change his name."


Wow I thought TSA was bad. They make us look like chumps

41 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7504 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5386 times:

If this is true its rediculous but yet kinda funny if you are trying to picture it in your mind.


"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineDeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5370 times:

Why not get a free show out of him, nothing to lighten up the mood at security quite like that.

DeltaGuy


User currently offlineAirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5321 times:



Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 1):
If this is true its rediculous but yet kinda funny if you are trying to picture it in

I wouldn't necessarily suggest it as being ridiculous, just maybe a bit out of the ordinary, and actually quite an interesting example to see if the person is at least genuine.
I would certainly say the TSA have performed many, many more 'embarrasing' stunts.


User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 4, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5247 times:

The TSA never would have gotten away with that... the media, ACLU, and who knows who else would come down like ten tons of bricks on them.

Israeli security makes me never want to visit there... and I worry people feel the same way about the US, too. At some point, things like that are not necessary and need to be reigned in.



"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlineMham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3391 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5219 times:

Actually, that out of the box thinking is exactly why Israeli airlines have been trouble-free for so long. You think they haven't been targeted, longer and more frequently than US airliners? Yet they have done it without many of the draconian ways of the TSA for example. They are highly regarded for their methods and I applaud them for their ideas. It's really no different than having us turn on our electronics to prove they are what you say they are. Just prove you are what you say you are. Easily done.

User currently offlineRussianJet From Kyrgyzstan, joined Jul 2007, 7638 posts, RR: 21
Reply 6, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5210 times:
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Quoting Mham001 (Reply 5):
Actually, that out of the box thinking is exactly why Israeli airlines have been trouble-free for so long

Quite possibly. But suggesting he change his name is downright offensive, and singling him out because of having a muslim name is discrimination. But it's ok I suppose, because it's Israel right?



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineMayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 9978 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5159 times:



Quoting Mham001 (Reply 5):
Yet they have done it without many of the draconian ways of the TSA for example.

Not quite. When in Israel, if you are coming into the airport and you look Arabic or have a license plate identifying you as Palestinian, you are stopped, your car stripped, searched and left for you to reassemble. If you are on a flight, you had better be there at least 4-5 hours before your flight if you meet the same criteria because you are subjected to an additional separate search.

As far as the security being better, I wonder. Let me relate this story. When I was at TLV in '91, helping with the transition from PA to DL, our flight to CDG/JFK left at 0630 hrs. Since most of the international flights left at the same time, there was a logjam at security, down by the ticket counter and we were having a difficult time getting our flight out on time. One day, my cargo work was caught up and I volunteered to be planeside, with a radio, to coordinate things with the gate agents and operations. Shortly before departure time, we looked towards the terminal (satellite parking in those days) we saw a passenger, with a baggage cart, coming across the ramp towards the flight. Airport security pulled up to him and brought him over to the flight. He had a friend on board and both of them were allowed to continue on the flight, no questions asked. Didn't even bother to check his luggage.
At that point we had already taken a delay and were expecting it to be much longer because of this.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineMham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3391 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4959 times:



Quoting RussianJet (Reply 6):

Quite possibly. But suggesting he change his name is downright offensive, and singling him out because of having a muslim name is discrimination. But it's ok I suppose, because it's Israel right?

Changing his name? We don't have the context in which it was said here, but if he wanted to avoid the hassle in the future, why wouldn't it be a logical suggestion?
Discrimination? Hardly. Profiling, yes. Too bad some have tried to make that practice into "discrimination". If more of that were done here, we would have less of the long lines.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21419 posts, RR: 60
Reply 9, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4948 times:

Why was it embarrassing for a dancer to dance? It's what they do. Now, for most people, it might be, but dancers LOVE to dance. It's why they dance. They break into dance even when it's not appropriate. Or at minimum, they stretch for no good reason at weird times. At least in my experience.


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineJFK69 From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1389 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4940 times:



Quoting RussianJet (Reply 6):
But it's ok I suppose, because it's Israel right?

Ya know what? ya damn right it is.

Let me just knock it out of the way, if he told him to chnage his name it is offensive and it was wrong, but its not America and their is no ACLU. In that part of the world, this happens much more often than we americans are used to.

The security is Israel is BS like the TSA. This man wasn't asked to take off his shoes, and a 98 year old grandmother wasn't pulled aside to be stripped search. This is how Israel runs, and if you don't like it then don't come. They will search for arabic names, and if they see an arabic name coming in with 10 others that aren't, then their bells go off and this man is questioned. If this was an arabic country, and someone with an Israeli passport was coming in with 10 others holding an EU Passport, you bet your ass the Israeli is being held up.

We get this thread every few months or so where someone is stopped and "hassled" by Israeli security.......if you don't want to put up with it then just don't go, it sucks, but it is reality.


User currently offlineRussianJet From Kyrgyzstan, joined Jul 2007, 7638 posts, RR: 21
Reply 11, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4894 times:
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Quoting JFK69 (Reply 10):
Let me just knock it out of the way, if he told him to chnage his name it is offensive and it was wrong, but its not America and their is no ACLU. In that part of the world, this happens much more often than we americans are used to.

The security is Israel is BS like the TSA. This man wasn't asked to take off his shoes, and a 98 year old grandmother wasn't pulled aside to be stripped search. This is how Israel runs, and if you don't like it then don't come. They will search for arabic names, and if they see an arabic name coming in with 10 others that aren't, then their bells go off and this man is questioned. If this was an arabic country, and someone with an Israeli passport was coming in with 10 others holding an EU Passport, you bet your ass the Israeli is being held up.

We get this thread every few months or so where someone is stopped and "hassled" by Israeli security.......if you don't want to put up with it then just don't go, it sucks, but it is reality.

A couple of points in response:

I'm not American, and this has nothing to do with what happens in America or any other country. I don't care what's allowed in Israel - the kind of behaviour I referred to is still morally outrageous and not indicative of a civilised country, regardless of where it is enountered.

As for 'if you don't like it, don't come' - don't worry, you couldn't pay me enough money to go to such a morally reprehensible country. So, no problem there.

Israeli passport in an Arab country - irrelevant, as discrimination would be wrong there as well and has no bearing on whether this case is morally acceptable.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlinePilotNTrng From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 897 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 4852 times:

Isreal is under threat of an attack daily, so who gives a crap if security makes you dance to prove who you are. This country has become overly politically correct ,sensitive, and greedy. This guy is gonna whine and cry until he benefits somehow through money or some other compensation.


Booooo Lois, Yaaaa Beer!!!
User currently offlineBrilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4060 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 4843 times:



Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 4):
The TSA never would have gotten away with that... the media, ACLU, and who knows who else would come down like ten tons of bricks on them.

The TSA hides behind the Patriot Act and thus not have to abide by the laws and rights of the individual.

I dare say that I have witnessed far more traumatic experiences at the TSA then just having to dance for them.



Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
User currently offlineRussianJet From Kyrgyzstan, joined Jul 2007, 7638 posts, RR: 21
Reply 14, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 4785 times:
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Quoting Brilondon (Reply 13):
I dare say that I have witnessed far more traumatic experiences at the TSA then just having to dance for them.

like being picked on for having a muslim name and told to change your name if you don't like the shabby treatment meted out to you?



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineDiscoverCSG From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 812 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 4745 times:



Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 4):
Israeli security makes me never want to visit there... and I worry people feel the same way about the US, too. At some point, things like that are not necessary and need to be reigned in.



Quoting JFK69 (Reply 10):
The security is Israel is BS like the TSA.

The U.S. and Israel handle airport security in very different ways.

In Israel, they use racial and many other types of profiling to identify high-risk passengers, and screen these most strictly. Screening is done by highly-trained, multilingual young men and women, and it's been many years since an Israeli-originating flight was successfully hijacked or otherwise attacked.

In the U.S., it's illegal to use racial profiling, so security officers with very little training and no law-enforcement authority give everyone supposedly equal treatment, save the random selection of a few passengers for secondary screening, without regard to their level of risk to flights or people on them. It's been seven years since an American-originating flight was successfully hijacked, and we all know how that turned out.


User currently offlineJFK69 From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1389 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4671 times:

I mean to write the security in Israel is NOT bs like the TSA....I meant so say that The Israeli security procedures is the way to go.

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 11):
I'm not American, and this has nothing to do with what happens in America or any other country. I don't care what's allowed in Israel - the kind of behaviour I referred to is still morally outrageous and not indicative of a civilised country, regardless of where it is enountered.

As for 'if you don't like it, don't come' - don't worry, you couldn't pay me enough money to go to such a morally reprehensible country. So, no problem there.

Israeli passport in an Arab country - irrelevant, as discrimination would be wrong there as well and has no bearing on whether this case is morally acceptable.

Congratulations that you aren't American, we don't need you. Just like Israel could care less if you disagree with them in regards to their morally reprehensible security procedures.

I see this probably has Israeli/Palestinian connotations in this discussion, I also see you are flying a British Flag, but let me tell you this. If you told people that the Subway and Bus Bombings in 2005 could have been stopped if they airport security made them dance, I truly don't believe anyone would have stopped it.

Stop being so naive....This is what Israel does. Get over it.

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 11):
Israeli passport in an Arab country - irrelevant, as discrimination would be wrong there as well and has no bearing on whether this case is morally acceptable.

Love the double standard.


User currently offlineWoodrow From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 16 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4600 times:



Quoting RussianJet (Reply 11):
I'm not American, and this has nothing to do with what happens in America or any other country. I don't care what's allowed in Israel - the kind of behaviour I referred to is still morally outrageous and not indicative of a civilised country, regardless of where it is enountered.

I'm neither Muslim nor Israeli, But when there are Islamic states calling for the destruction of your country, just what do you suggest they do? I am not trying to be a SMARTA$$, I really would like to know what you would do? It seems easy to be in a third country, safely typing away on your keyboard, (like myself,) but in reality what would you do if you were security in either Israel or a Muslim state? By the way, I share an office with a Muslim and a Jew, and we all get along just fine! Just a really messed up world we live in! A'netters seem to be above politics as well.


User currently offlineRussianJet From Kyrgyzstan, joined Jul 2007, 7638 posts, RR: 21
Reply 18, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4544 times:
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Quoting JFK69 (Reply 16):
Love the double standard.

Sorry, how is that a double standard? I clearly said that that (discrimination against the Israeli passport holder you hypothetically refer to) would also be unacceptable, but that it had no relevance to the acceptability or otherwise of the behaviour displayed in this case. Care to explain?

Quoting JFK69 (Reply 16):
we don't need you.

I only wish to God that were true, as I'm sick of my country's reputation being tarnished internationally by following you around like a puppy and helping to provide an illusion of credibility to the outrageous violations of international law and freedom that between us we have embarked upon.

Quoting JFK69 (Reply 16):
if they airport security made them dance

I have not commented on the dancing.

Quoting JFK69 (Reply 16):

I see this probably has Israeli/Palestinian connotations in this discussion, I also see you are flying a British Flag

Really not sure what you're implying there. I'm British, and hate all types of human rights abuses and unfair treatment. I just don't think revenge and bullying is the way to solve problems as many governments seem to.

Quoting JFK69 (Reply 16):
If you told people that the Subway and Bus Bombings in 2005 could have been stopped

Please do not insult my country by even mentioning those incidents in this discussion. They had absolutely nothing to do with airport security whatsoever and add nothing to your arguments.

Quoting JFK69 (Reply 16):
Stop being so naive....This is what Israel does. Get over it.

How am I being naive? I know perfectly well what they do, doesn't mean I have to like it. You can point to the fact that Israeli airliners are safe, and that's great. Meanwhile, people all over the world are pissed off by this kind of treatment to the extent that they want to blow us up in our home countries. Whilst that is clearly an awful threat that we must defend ourselves against, it is idiotic not to at least consider why people feel they have to commit such atrocities. That is not to excuse terrorism in any way, as it is a vile, evil phenomenon. We do, however, have to consider the bigger picture.

Quoting DiscoverCSG (Reply 15):
In the U.S., it's illegal to use racial profiling, so security officers with very little training and no law-enforcement authority give everyone supposedly equal treatment, save the random selection of a few passengers for secondary screening, without regard to their level of risk to flights or people on them. It's been seven years since an American-originating flight was successfully hijacked, and we all know how that turned out.

The fact that you seem to have poorly-trained TSA agents running your security with ridiculous procedures that don't amount to much cannot be explained by the absence of profiling. Lack of profiling and good security procedures need not be mutually exclusive.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineMarcus From Mexico, joined Apr 2001, 1767 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4457 times:

A couple of weeks ago I was crossing in to the US, in the queue right in front of me was a kid about 10 years old with an accordeon (and grandmother)....he was asked by the inmigration officer to play something so he did.....needless to say everybody got a good laugh at the situation...no harm done.


Kids!....we are going to the happiest place on earth...TIJUANA! signed: Krusty the Clown
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39478 posts, RR: 75
Reply 20, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4435 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 9):
Why was it embarrassing for a dancer to dance? It's what they do. Now, for most people, it might be, but dancers LOVE to dance. It's why they dance. They break into dance even when it's not appropriate. Or at minimum, they stretch for no good reason at weird times. At least in my experience.

That doesn't make any sense.
Just because someone is an entertainer by trade doesn't mean that they should be forced to perform on the spot by security. Those guards also had a lot of nerve to suggest this man change his name.
Mr. Jackson should have boycotted the whole county and just not enter Israel.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineMrmoose From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 39 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4419 times:

El Al security is the best in the world and they leave nothing up to chance. I am an orthodox jew, and once flew with a bunch of freinds JFK-TLV. We were going for a funeral so we bought tickets last minute and we were only staying two days. Despite our beards and yamukas we were questioned and asked among other things "what was this weeks Torah reading"? I guess if you are a dancer they want to see your dance and if you are a jew they want you to know some Torah.

User currently offlineRussianJet From Kyrgyzstan, joined Jul 2007, 7638 posts, RR: 21
Reply 22, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4416 times:
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Quoting MSYPI7185 (Reply 18):
Quoting RussianJet (Reply 6):
singling him out because of having a muslim name is discrimination.

Non-sense, this is common sense!

No, not nonsense. Regardless of whether you agree with the motives and/or the results, it is by its very nature discriminatory. If you still disagree, consult a dictionary.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineFlyPIJets From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 863 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 4155 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 21):
Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 9):
Why was it embarrassing for a dancer to dance? It's what they do. Now, for most people, it might be, but dancers LOVE to dance. It's why they dance. They break into dance even when it's not appropriate. Or at minimum, they stretch for no good reason at weird times. At least in my experience.

That doesn't make any sense.
Just because someone is an entertainer by trade doesn't mean that they should be forced to perform on the spot by security. Those guards also had a lot of nerve to suggest this man change his name.

And the thing about this is that apparently Israeli security thinks that if you can dance you couldn't possibly be a terrorist or spy.

No, Yanks, Brits, Russians, Germans - no none of us would EVER send a spy/saboteur that also is a trained dancer.   

Hey, but if you sleep better at night....

[Edited 2008-09-10 18:41:04]


DC-8, DC-9, DC-10, F28, 717, 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, IL-62, L-1011, MD-82/83, YS-11, DHC-8, PA-28-161, ERJ 135/145, E-1
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21419 posts, RR: 60
Reply 24, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 4093 times:



Quoting FlyPIJets (Reply 24):
And the thing about this is that apparently Israeli security thinks that if you can dance you couldn't possibly be a terrorist or spy.

No, Yanks, Brits, Russians, Germans - no none of us would EVER send a spy/saboteur that also is a trained dancer.

I'm not justifying it, but I am saying the idea he was truly embarrassed is a stretch. Performers like performing. I deal with enough of them to know this.

Now, is the person upset because he was harassed? Sure. Is he upset because he was racially profiled, and believes that you shouldn't be, because he's an American? Sure. Does he feel he was mistreated? Probably.

But is dancing embarrassing for a dancer? Hardly. But the article says the experience was embarrassing, not the dancing.  Smile

Now if they asked me to dance, I think everyone would have been embarrassed!



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
25 JFK69 : Yes Nonsense. Profiling must be done. If a man rapes a women and his name is John Smith, we check every man named John Smith. All the terrorists of 9
26 FlyPIJets : More likely pissed off 'cause he didn't get paid. Then tries to raise a stink about it. I wonder how many other professions get singled out - You thi
27 Q120 : JFK69, Couldn't of said it better myself... thanks to the well trained staff in Israel, they know exactly how to "crack" people. Even when I flew out
28 FlyPIJets : Ya know, the problem with your logic is that it makes the assumption the the border guards were doing their job and everyone will react like you. Not
29 FiveMileFinal : ...but I'm sure everyone knows this.
30 Pyrex : I once was arriving back home really tired after a very long flight and the customs lady pulled me aside to ask me where I was coming from (Boston, t
31 RussianJet : As I said, it is still discriminatory by definition, you just consider that the ends justify the means. Consult a dictionary and stop missing my poin
32 Ade99 : JFK69 The jury in the court found these men guilty but could not reach a verdict that they intended to blow up airliners. The men were arrested earlie
33 CastropRauxel : Errrrr, guys...? I feel a bit uncomfortable about this entire discussion not because I'm Israeli, but because today is 9/11. I think we all agree that
34 Agill : I bet they are just trying to set a president in case Jenna Jameson would come and they'd have to ask her to prove her identity
35 Brilondon : No, but have traveled with my friend who is a Pakistani citizen who has a green card and has been living in th U.S. for 12 years being asked question
36 RussianJet : Sounds crappy. Don't worry, I wouldn't dream of it!
37 Babybus : And the West is supposed to support this country? It obviously doesn't have much in common with the West with those sorts of antics. We don't demean
38 Conti764 : That depends for a large part on November 4. On topic, the Israeli security is known to be very strict. It is balancing on a thin cord between comfor
39 Conti764 : You are right at some point, but keep in mind that for us, Europeans, it is a totally different situation and we live totally different from you, esp
40 Conti764 : With all do respect, but by saying this you prove to me that you haven't 'enjoyed' the 'other side' of El Al security. I have seen them working numer
41 413X3 : It has nothing to do with demeaning, it is a necessity when you are such a huge target. The point is not to embarrass everyone for the fun of it, the
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