MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31155 posts, RR: 76 Posted (4 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3779 times:
American Airlines and Martinair have partnered up to provide connections between Amsterdam and twelve cities, being phased in between now and the end of October.
The partnership is similar to that between JetBlue and Aer Lingus, essentially a glorified interline agreement. Martinair passengers can now book travel between Amsterdam and select American Airlines destinations via Miami.
It is always good to see AA expand their feed options from Miami. The interline agreement is on flights between Miami and:
Bridgetown
Buenos Aires
Cancun
La Paz
Lima
New Orleans
Orlando
Rio de Janeiro
San Jose, Costa Rica
San Juan
Santa Cruz de la Sierra
Santiago de Chile
Martinair Holland operates a daily 767-300ER service between Miami and Amsterdam, and also has a cargo hub in Miami with cargo flights to Argentina, Brazil, and the Netherlands.
I didn't know Arkefly flew into SXM. Is MP still planning on discontinuing service to PBM? They used to fly AMS-TAB-PMV weekly. They also used to fly to SJO from MIA.
Indeed, with VS gone, its just BA on the London route. Also, I believe that some other charters also operate into NAS from the U.K./Europe during the winter.
PRAirbus From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2005, 1023 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (4 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3561 times:
Doubt AA would fly to AMS especially from MIA. MIA-AMS is a low fares market (vacation packages) are popular. NW then KLM could not make MIA route work eventhough they have a major hub in AMS. Not sure AA could pull MIA-AMS profitably, MP is the leader on that market and has the cost structure to make it work.
A388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9130 posts, RR: 13 Reply 10, posted (4 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3498 times:
Quoting Antillean207 (Reply 9): MP has alreay discontinued service to PBM from AMS.
Iwannagothere From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 41 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (4 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3462 times:
How could AA not succede in AMS? It is the one place that AA doesn't serve that is vital. They could probably fill a 777 from DFW or ORD with all the FF's who have to connect in LHR or MAD.
Commavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 10225 posts, RR: 62 Reply 12, posted (4 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3437 times:
2) It's a relatively low-yielding market compared with other continental hubs around it
3) Other carriers already have too far dominant a position
4) AA's partners (particularly BA) can easily and cost-effectively get AA passengers there
At some point in the future, AA may be able to make Amsterdam work. I think a daily 767 to Chicago would be most likely. However, there is definitely no reason for AA to run into the market, and there are plenty of reasons to think that they might now succeed there.
Quoting Iwannagothere (Reply 11): It is the one place that AA doesn't serve that is vital.
Respectfully, Amsterdam is hardly "vital."
While its an important city - and a beautiful one, too - it is a small market that exists as a hub far more for connections than for its local demand.
Quoting Iwannagothere (Reply 11): They could probably fill a 777 from DFW or ORD with all the FF's who have to connect in LHR or MAD.
Amsterdam would never see a 777. Paris doesn't even get the 777, and it is a far larger, far higher-yielding market, and AA has a far stronger position there (especially considering they have next to no position in Amsterdam).
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22241 posts, RR: 51 Reply 13, posted (4 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3438 times:
Quoting Iwannagothere (Reply 11): How could AA not succede in AMS? It is the one place that AA doesn't serve that is vital. They could probably fill a 777 from DFW or ORD with all the FF's who have to connect in LHR or MAD.
Hmm lets see why not a 777 from ORD or DFW;
1) AMS is a hub airport for a Skyteam carrier
2) AMS is one of the lower yielding European airports. Even home carrier KL admits this and offers smaller premium cabins (no F Class)
3) AMS on its own is not a very large market. The only reason KLM is the size it is, is due to connection traffic flow over AMS
4) AA has bigger fish to fry and wont tie up its 777 or 763s.
One day you might see a 757 as AA moves them to the Atlantic, but what you are proposing is highly unlikely particuarlty considering other global opportunities which AA has yet to act on.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
A388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9130 posts, RR: 13 Reply 14, posted (4 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3416 times:
Quoting Iwannagothere (Reply 11): How could AA not succede in AMS? It is the one place that AA doesn't serve that is vital. They could probably fill a 777 from DFW or ORD with all the FF's who have to connect in LHR or MAD.
I agree with the others, I also don't see AA serving AMS any time soon, if not at all.
I remember a while back AA almost launched ORD-AMS; but KL serves the route well with the 744. I believe KL used a MD-11 into MIA in the past. Hopefully, if they return, KL will most likely use a A330.
Sflaflight From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1182 posts, RR: 1 Reply 18, posted (4 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3163 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 13): 4) AA has bigger fish to fry and wont tie up its 777 or 763s.
Like MXP! Wink! Wink!
but yeah, this seems more like an over inflated interline agreement. Still a good move for Dutch passengers though who want to get to sun destinations, plus, they can stop a few days in MIA and spend their EUR here in South Florida. You know, we love to entertain the dutch!
CityofAthens From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 19, posted (4 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 3136 times:
It's just a shame that MIA airport isn't a particularly pleasant experience, and the terminal used by MP (they always seem to park next to BA) is undergoing some sort of renovation and immigration/customs can take a while now (mind you, you could say that about most airports now ...)
Glareskin From Netherlands, joined Jun 2005, 1284 posts, RR: 1 Reply 20, posted (4 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3048 times:
I would say that AMS is big enough a high-yield market for a daily 767 load of AA ff's from ORD, DFW and MIA. Probably these fliers will currently mostly travel through LHR and MAD.
Now I would think that the MH partnership would be the soft way for AA to slowly put some own metal to AMS and establish the direct link itself instead of feeding all it's pax to BA and IB. Especially since MIA is currently only served by leisure airlines from AMS while ORD has a direct link with UA and KL and DFW with KL. Just my
There's still a long way to go before all the alliances deserve a star...
A388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9130 posts, RR: 13 Reply 21, posted (4 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3024 times:
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 16): SJO was discontinued as part of the restructuring this past April.
With "discontinued long before that" I meant MP discontinuing SJO with their own aircraft. I know about the arrangements they had with other airlines...
TransIsland From Bahamas, joined Mar 2004, 2032 posts, RR: 11 Reply 22, posted (4 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3014 times:
Quoting SCL767 (Reply 6): Indeed, with VS gone, its just BA on the London route. Also, I believe that some other charters also operate into NAS from the U.K./Europe during the winter.
VS's impact isn't that great. They only came once a week, and only for a short time. The only other regular charter to Europe is First Choice to MAN once a week. What is hurting us more is how US arrivals are down. Many years ago, Condor used to come in, and I remember flying FRA-NAS as a child on LH, too... but now we're talking 1970s or maybe early 80s.
US cut LGA and BOS
DL cut MCO, CVG and TPA, and decreased LGA and ATL
AA (Eagle) cut FLL and TPA
CO/3M cut PBI and MIA, and replaced all EMB-120 operating FLL with B1900D
UP cut PBI and decreased frequency to MCO
NK cut MCO and decreased FLL
NW & UA pulled out altogether
Quoting TDubJFK (Reply 15): Improve your -crap- airport first. Then you might be taken seriously.
Thank you for your kind words. Please remember that we are a developing nations, and airports in developing nations often do not compare to Heathrow's T5. However, if you had been to Nassau lately, you would already see some considerable improvements.
I'm an aviation expert. I have Sky Juice for breakfast.
Bobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6031 posts, RR: 9 Reply 23, posted (4 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2953 times:
Quoting A388 (Reply 3): POS and TPA: Probably little to no demand from AMS to these cities.
There was enough demand years ago for Martinair to fly AMS-TPA non stop several days a week.
A388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9130 posts, RR: 13 Reply 24, posted (4 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 2901 times:
Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 23): There was enough demand years ago for Martinair to fly AMS-TPA non stop several days a week
Do you have a source or links?
A388
25 LJ: This is incorrect. AMS is a very high yield (local) cargo market (hence why some airlines still fly to AMS). However AA already taps into the AMS car
26 Hardiwv: And what about AA future destinations MAO, FOR, SSA? Although we have weekly charter fights AMS-FOR and AMS-SSA I am sure that AMS-MIA-MAO could be a
27 LJ: AMS-MAO would be interesting indeed as one Dutch holiday company owns a resort close to MAO. I was actually referring to the flower trade as this is
28 76er: Sometime back in the nineties MP used to serve MIA, FLL, TPA and MCO, all nonstop. After the 2000 restructuring plan 'Red Alert' operations were conce
29 Hardiwv: On Martinair website the airline is selling AA codeshared flights via MIA to GIG and EZE. Rgs,
30 Flyingfool: Not really, I'm working the cargo of the US flights to PHL. And since they switched to Aviapartner as their European Cargo Handling Company not a sin
31 Bobnwa: No I don't but I flew on the service from AMS to TPA on a pass. At the time Matinair flew AMS/ TPA,MCO, and MIA non-stop.
32 Lambert747: JFK-AMS may come into play when more of the 757's come into play on the TATL front. MP also served YVR, LAX, OAK, and DEN if I am not mistaken as wel
33 Bobnwa: No current passenger aircraft can carry enough cargo to make a trans-atlantic flight profitable with no passengers. That statemwnt appears on A net e
34 76er: All true, and also YYC, YEG, YYZ, SEA and EWR. I was merely referring to the FL flights in my post.
35 Viscount724: Many if not all of those were charters, not scheduled. I'm sure MP has never operated scheduled flights to Canada.
36 Bobnwa: They operated scheduled service AMS-Halifax in the early 90's as a sub service for KLM. It was a KL flight number and was part of the NW/KL joint ven
37 Lambert747: It has been my undertsanding that YVR-AMS and YYC-AMS were on and off and often shared a KL flight number. In reference to OAK and LAX they were regu
38 76er: All Canada flights were (are) so-called 'scheduled charters'. MP kept requesting 'scheduled' status every year but got turned down every time by the C
39 LJ: As mentioned in my text this was the case (thus in the past). The airlines themselves have made that public. However if around 75% of the flight cost
40 Bobnwa: I don't believe that any airline has ever made that fact public for the reason that no passenger aircraft can make a profit flying cargo with zero pa
41 Captaink: Exactly, what's more there are MUCH worse airports in the Caribbean, and foreign airlines generally don't use that as a defining factor in whether to
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