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AZ: Rescue Plan Busted  
User currently offlineMacc From Austria, joined Nov 2004, 1073 posts, RR: 3
Posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 19542 times:

orf.at (german only) reports that CAI, the consortium around Bank Intesa stopped talks for the rescue of Alitalia. "CAI realises, that after 7 days of negotiation, conditions for continuing the negotiation are missing. Obvioulsy awareness of the dramatic situation of AZ and the need for a change is not given." a CAI spokesperson is quoted.

Ok, nothing new anyway.


I exchanged political frustration with sexual boredom. better spoil a girl than the world
129 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3403 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 19468 times:

It appears that all sides are playing with fire here - the EU won't allow the government to bail them out again (as the unions seem to think). Personally I think that AZ is going down the tubes........

User currently offline1peter From Netherlands, joined Jul 2005, 149 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 19447 times:

Clearly not good news if AZ does fold, at least for staff and customers alike. But looking at it another way it may help boost the European market overall by removing a fairly large operator.


Airlines flown; AA, AC, AY, BA, BD, BY, CX, DA, DP, IB, KL, LH, LA, LP, MA & MH
User currently offlineCURLYHEADBOY From Italy, joined Feb 2005, 940 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 19337 times:



Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 1):
Personally I think that AZ is going down the tubes........

Looks like it's happening for real this time, latest news is that procedures to put employees under unemployment subsidy are expected to start within the day. This would be the sign that AZ is dead.
However, I'm still watching AZ operate from my window, an Md-82 is roaring by as I write. AZ is and has been such a "strange thing" that I'm not gonna believe it's gone until I see them grounded. In that case I'll miss their colours in the sky, the rest of them, not!



If God had wanted men to fly he would have given them more money...
User currently offlineFlynavy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 19292 times:

Bloomberg reporting that Alitalia is "...close to collapse...".

Quote:
Sept. 12 (Bloomberg) -- Alitalia SpA, the state-controlled airline that declared insolvency last month, moved closer to bankruptcy when Roberto Colaninno's investor group pulled out of negotiations after unions refused to accept its rescue plan.

''After seven days of meetings, there aren't the conditions to continue negotiations,'' Colaninno's Compagnia Aerea Italiana said in an e-mailed statement. The unions ''don't seem to realize what a dramatic situation Alitalia is in,'' CAI said.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...601087&sid=aer7Ckas26bA&refer=home


User currently offlineCURLYHEADBOY From Italy, joined Feb 2005, 940 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 19227 times:

Some figures are being released about the size of job cuts.
At this time the "rescue plan" foresees 5,000 jobs to be axed, 1,000 of them being pilots.

To give you an idea of the moods among the government (which is still the owner of AZ at this time), a minister stated that: "however it goes, I'm sure the Italian citizens and taxpayers will be relieved of not having to pay a cent for AZ anymore". That's a pretty truthful yet sobering statement, isn't it?

edit: typo

[Edited 2008-09-12 03:58:58]


If God had wanted men to fly he would have given them more money...
User currently offlineUAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 19227 times:

This goose is well and truly cooked, indeed its probably burn to a cinder IMHO. Its sad to say but I think the best thing that can happen to AZ is that they liquidate and that a new company is created similar to Swiss and gets to the skies again, with perhpas a lot of the same staff under new contracts. This mess has gone on way to long and the EU and Goverments surely have to draw the line somewhere bailing them out and decide its no longer a viable option.

User currently offlineGorgos From Greece, joined exactly 7 years ago today! , 232 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 19149 times:

So how does such a thing go? If Alitlia refuses to file bankrupcy, when do Shell, Exxon and the likes decide Alitalia is no more trustworthy? When do the baggagehandling companies decide Alitalia is too big of a risk to continue to do business with? And most importantly, when do people stop buying tickets?

User currently offlineDellatorre From Brazil, joined May 2000, 1088 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 19097 times:

I say AZ collapse is more than overdue!!!

User currently offlineKL577 From Netherlands, joined Oct 2006, 780 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 19083 times:



Quoting Gorgos (Reply 7):
So how does such a thing go? If Alitlia refuses to file bankrupcy, when do Shell, Exxon and the likes decide Alitalia is no more trustworthy? When do the baggagehandling companies decide Alitalia is too big of a risk to continue to do business with? And most importantly, when do people stop buying tickets?

I have been wondering about that for months. But I should think oil suppliers, with the latest news, are currently considering whether or not to maintain fueling AZ planes. Dutch travel agents are meanwhile refusing to pay the full ticket price to IATA/AZ, as they fear bankrupcy and possibly having to refund tickets from their own pockets to customers, in Dutch:

http://www.nuzakelijk.nl/20080908/be...g-om-betaling-tickets-van-alitalia


User currently offlineCURLYHEADBOY From Italy, joined Feb 2005, 940 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 19067 times:



Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 6):
So how does such a thing go? If Alitlia refuses to file bankrupcy, when do Shell, Exxon and the likes decide Alitalia is no more trustworthy? When do the baggagehandling companies decide Alitalia is too big of a risk to continue to do business with? And most importantly, when do people stop buying tickets?

This is going to happen really fast, unless an agreement is reached within the next few hours, and this is unlikely. As for the tickets, I don't think a person with a working brain would buy an AZ ticket today, unless he/she's totally oblivious to the current situation....



If God had wanted men to fly he would have given them more money...
User currently offlineBlooBirdie From Lesotho, joined Sep 2003, 262 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 19025 times:



Quoting CURLYHEADBOY (Reply 10):
As for the tickets, I don't think a person with a working brain would buy an AZ ticket today, unless he/she's totally oblivious to the current situation....

As many are. Just listening to a BBC Radio 2 phone-in on the XL collapse. People have been buying tickets right up until the last moment when a little googling would have disclosed some worrying rumours. We're not talking small money either - some woman representing a large group of friends mentoned some sum > £40k!


User currently offlineCURLYHEADBOY From Italy, joined Feb 2005, 940 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 18948 times:



Quoting BlooBirdie (Reply 11):
As many are. Just listening to a BBC Radio 2 phone-in on the XL collapse. People have been buying tickets right up until the last moment when a little googling would have disclosed some worrying rumours. We're not talking small money either - some woman representing a large group of friends mentoned some sum > £40k!

You're right, there will be some who will not know a thing about the situation (though, here in Italy, it's on the first page of all news websites) and will buy AZ tickets even today, and some that are so much in need to travel that they'll just buy and keep their finger crossed that the airline will not cease operations before they can reach their destinations. Still, this will not be a significant amount of income for the company.



If God had wanted men to fly he would have given them more money...
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9752 posts, RR: 31
Reply 13, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 18886 times:

The AZ board and especially the CEO is legally obliged to file for bankcruptcy, unless he has a carte blanche in writing from the government or whoever elso would be footing the bill. That however would be again a breach of EU rules and regulations,

In Germany, and under EU law certainly in Italy as well, the officer of a company is persnally liable for all bills if he does not file in time.

IMHO this musz be the case the moment CAI pulled out of the deal.

If the unions want the jobs to be saved, why don't they come up with their money? A partly union / managemrnt / employee buy out would sober them up in very little time.

n any case, they will confronted with reality very shortly.



Es saugt und blaest der Heinzelmann wo Mutti sonst nur blasen kann. Frueher war mehr Lametta.
User currently offlineMacc From Austria, joined Nov 2004, 1073 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 18874 times:



Quoting CURLYHEADBOY (Reply 3):
AZ is and has been such a "strange thing" that I'm not gonna believe it's gone until I see them grounded.

exactly my thoughts. how many times it was said its gone before....



I exchanged political frustration with sexual boredom. better spoil a girl than the world
User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3403 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 18824 times:

Quoting BlooBirdie (Reply 11):
money either - some woman representing a large group of friends mentoned some sum > £40k!

I'm always getting told off by my wife for saying this - but are people really, really stupid - they spent £40K and didn't ensure that they were insured in some way - ATOL or buying on a CCard or holiday insurance that covered bankrupcy..............  Wow!

As reflected above and in the way that Zoom and XL have collapsed in a matter of hours recently - the end, when it comes is often really, really quick. It usually takes one of the creditors - fuel supplier, airport (for landing fess), plane lessor etc to take debt recovery action due to unpaid bills and all the creditors will want to make sure that they don't get left out and suddenly the airline cannot get fuel, has planes impounded and is finished.

I wonder if AZ is going to last over the weekend - if this is the case then the next thing that we're going to hear is rumours from staff about being locked out etc

Edited due to important typo!

[Edited 2008-09-12 05:15:31]

User currently offlineCURLYHEADBOY From Italy, joined Feb 2005, 940 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 18791 times:



Quoting PanHAM (Reply 13):
IMHO this musz be the case the moment CAI pulled out of the deal.

It is mate, and that is what's happening right now, as procedures to put AZ workers under unemployment pay is underway, according to the news. This is a normal procedure before a company is declared bankrupt.

Most of the sources agree there is no margin left for a solution, although a few say it's not over yet.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 13):
If the unions want the jobs to be saved, why don't they come up with their money? A partly union / managemrnt / employee buy out would sober them up in very little time.

Think the debt is way too much large for this thing you suggest to be effective, that could have worked together with a major company investment and this is not the case.

In the meantime, AZ planes are still taking off here close to my home, this looks oddly unreal, as I listen to the ATC, I can't help feeling for the pilots doing their job under such circumstances.



If God had wanted men to fly he would have given them more money...
User currently offlineBAStew From Australia, joined Sep 2006, 1030 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 18692 times:

I love this paragraph from the UK FT today:

'Pope Bendict XVI, leaving Rome on board a special Alitalia flight to Paris, was asked by Mr Fantozzi if he might say a prayer for the airline.

“I have been praying [for Alitalia] for some time,” came the reply, according to reporters at Fiumicino airport.'


User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12597 posts, RR: 34
Reply 18, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 18689 times:

Probably all for the best in the long run; if the unions hadn't killed Alitalia now, they'd probably have done the same to Air One in due course. Really, the best thing is for LH to back a significant expansion of AP's operations in Italy, particularly their long haul ops. It's a shame that the AZ unions didn't see (or want to see) the reality of the situation AZ finds itself in; I can't help wondering if there are some very angry employees, rightfully blaming their union for what happened.

It's painful for them, particularly in such difficult economic times, but really it's a case of now rather than later. Better to put AZ out of its misery now, so that these people can look for alternative employment and AP can provide Italy with a better quality of air transport.


User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9752 posts, RR: 31
Reply 19, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 18671 times:



Quoting CURLYHEADBOY (Reply 16):
Think the debt is way too much large for this thing you suggest to be effective, that could have worked together with a major company investment and this is not the case.

The debt is going into the bankcruptcy. that's the advantage of bankcruptcies, you leave the previous owner and the creditors with the old debt behind and start a clean sheet operation with new money. The nions usually have a lot of cash stashed away to fund strikes, they could use it this time to really do something for their members, would probably be the first time anyhow. They wuld be in the boat and that would be a clear and positive sign for lenders taht their cash is working.

But union leaders don't have the balls and not the knowledge to become entreprenours, so they do what unions always do, destroy jobs.



Es saugt und blaest der Heinzelmann wo Mutti sonst nur blasen kann. Frueher war mehr Lametta.
User currently offlineL410Turbolet From Czech Republic, joined May 2004, 5743 posts, RR: 19
Reply 20, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 18609 times:

Pope Benedict told the official in charge of the latest faltering rescue bid for Alitalia on Friday that he has been praying for the Italian airline.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/200809.../tod-uk-alitalia-pope-d987f7f.html

Even the Pope is scared he won't be able to get back from France...  pray 


User currently offlineBabybus From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 18572 times:

I hope they get one last input from the government to keep them flying for a few more weeks so I can get one last flight with them.

However, this time I think it's Ciao Alitalia! It was fun while it lasted.


User currently offlineCURLYHEADBOY From Italy, joined Feb 2005, 940 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 18555 times:



Quoting PanHAM (Reply 19):
But union leaders don't have the balls and not the knowledge to become entreprenours, so they do what unions always do, destroy jobs.

While I agree to some extent, I also think that putting blame on unions only is not completely fair. Bad management is to blame quite as much, AZ being run as a state company for too much time into the free market, without smoothly implementing the due changes, is what killed it.
Of course, short-sighted union leaders played their part into this, leading workers into believing they could ask for whatever they wanted, at any time, until it was too late.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 19):
The debt is going into the bankcruptcy. that's the advantage of bankcruptcies, you leave the previous owner and the creditors with the old debt behind and start a clean sheet operation with new money. The nions usually have a lot of cash stashed away to fund strikes, they could use it this time to really do something for their members, would probably be the first time anyhow. They wuld be in the boat and that would be a clear and positive sign for lenders taht their cash is working.

Yes, but they would have been forced to cut jobs anyway in order to make the "new" company profitable, AZ is largely oversized and everybody knows it, unions included. Now, would you imagine unions cutting jobs? Hardly, they would prefer to whine over the bankruptcy over "losing their face".



If God had wanted men to fly he would have given them more money...
User currently offlineRicardoFG From Spain, joined Feb 2005, 677 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 18119 times:

Thank you AZ Union members for single handedly costing me my job. Gotta love the selfish Alitalians!!! RIP Alitalia - 61 years!

User currently offlineReadytotaxi From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 3362 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 17455 times:

Can see them lasting the night, but that is the reality of business today, I think Olympic might well be next.


you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
25 Xdlx : Part of the problem is this "belief " by employees, and the Italian people that what is happening to AZ... ( Should not happen in Italy ! ) That it ha
26 Standby87 : Olympic are fine - don't worry, trust me!
27 PanAm747 : Before we again lump every union into the same category, let me remind people that one of the most successful airlines in the world, Southwest, is uni
28 CuriousFlyer : At least something everyone agrees on... still I do not trust Berlusconi for facing the reality with Alitalia. He is largely responsible for the curre
29 Semsem : I have a friend who is booked on AZ to New York on September 25th. AZ is part owned by the Italian Government. I wonder whether one risks losing the t
30 Post contains links DocPepz : Fear not - Help is on the way from above. Pope Benedict Prays for Alitalia as Takeover Talks Break Down By Flavia Krause-Jackson Sept. 12 (Bloomberg)
31 Beaucaire : In my opinion LH anticipated the collaps of the discussions and hence will move very fast to boost Air Dolomiti into it's fully fledged Italian divisi
32 PanHAM : you cannot compare US unions with Euroipean unions. In Europa, unions want political power and most of them give a damn about their members. SWA is a
33 SInGAPORE_AIR : I join our dear Pope and I too shall pray for Alitalia and its employees.
34 CURLYHEADBOY : Right on the spot, couldn't agree more. May I add that, since the AZ ordeal was brought into politics and hence a failure is wished by those who oppo
35 PanAm747 : Actually, you just made my point for me! Some posters here DO lump all unions into one category, and you provided an excellent example of how they ar
36 FlyTUITravel : Arrivederci Alitalia!
37 F.pier : I suppose this is a way to obtain more... I think that finally they'll reach a "suffered" agreement and we'll see titles like this: "Alitalia saved on
38 CURLYHEADBOY : Ok, see your point but easy on your last sentence mate, AZ is not representative of Italy and the Italians in general. We have our troubles as many c
39 LJ : No the airline will go bust. Even if they would have been "saved" the entity AZ would have gone bust as this is the only way to get rid of the debt (
40 PanAm747 : Agreed! And I hope I never gave the implication that it was. God forbid Americans are judged solely by the audience and participants of the Jerry Spr
41 Shamrock104 : How long does Alitalia have left? Surely they must be close to shutdown in the next few days, is it just a matter of the administrator calling it a da
42 NCB : It's not over yet. As expected, the 9 union bosses are asking to be received. Perhaps, now that Lufthansa announced the 6 A319's based at MXP, they re
43 SSTsomeday : Though not following the ongoing saga very closely, I suspect that Alitalia could experience a rebirth as essentially a new company, could they not,
44 Beaucaire : A German newspaper advances the theory that most of AZ's pilots would like to steer the airline into receivership,since after the bankruptcy of AZ the
45 Post contains links VictorKilo : Reuters is reporting that the bankruptcy administrator is calling for a meeting with Alitalia's unions at 1200 GMT today to keep the rescue plan from
46 Timo007 : Does anyone have an idea of how forward bookings are looking? I would imagine all this talk of collapse has got to be killing business? Cheers, Timo
47 CURLYHEADBOY : Latest news say that, if no solution is found, AZ is capable of operating until monday Sept. 15 so don't know about the bookings but I guess new book
48 Janmnastami : If the unions won't accept the new working contracts, adieu AZ.
49 Post contains links BestWestern : http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/feedarticle/7795174 Unions held out for government intervention. "At the point we are at now it is up to the govern
50 AircraftGeek : And welcome to other companies in the Italian market. Free competition, finally...
51 Post contains links CYatUK : BBC "Beaking News" reports that Alitalia have announced that they cannot guarantee fights after Sunday as they will not have money for fuel. http://ne
52 F.pier : Unions will finally sign. They're making their job.
53 Leskova : Only if airlines offered discounts to them - a lot simply had to pay whatever was being offered. Having a ticket on a bankrupt airline, regardless of
54 Beaucaire : I understand that several months ago,Alitalia withdrew 34 older aircraft from the fleet. But the crews for those aircraft are still on the payroll sin
55 Post contains links and images L410Turbolet : Talk about huge gamble... One would almost think that since their judgment is so obviously poor about thier own careers whether their judgment should
56 Babybus : If he can't bag a miracle, no one can. According to the BBC website AZ claim they will run out of fuel in the next few days.
57 CURLYHEADBOY : An update on this topic for you guys: AZ call center is now discouraging the purchase of tickets. Howwever, their website still has this unupdated re
58 AirNZ : Sorry, but you'd be assuming quite wrongly.
59 Rookinla : We were only told that AZ tickets had to be issued with a credit card and not cash to protect the client in case...
60 Leskova : Too bad that there are still too many unresponsible ones out there... I certainly know that our offices worldwide have had the explicit order for qui
61 Post contains links L410Turbolet : Alitalia crisis talks to resume Emergency talks to prevent the collapse of Alitalia are due to resume in Rome after the airline warned it may have to
62 MD11Engineer : Why must? What if these foreign airlines bring their own pilots with them? The only ones, where I see a achance of getting back into a job fairly fas
63 L410Turbolet : I thought it doesn't take some huge mental effort to figure out the simple fact that if there's a sudden surplus of couple of thousand pilots looking
64 MD11Engineer : exactly. Especially if most young pilots are over their ears in debts and the pilots I know usually don't bring any marketable skill with them except
65 Post contains links Beaucaire : Italian newspapers report the meeting has been postponed until 22 hours- seems the unions have all the time in the world... http://www.ilsole24ore.com
66 Janmnastami : The point is that there are 9 unions... some of them are at the table to write the contracts, other uniones are waiting... and there's also an interna
67 Banjo76 : What a mess!!! Typical Italian way of structuring labor. Fractioning every single interest into multiple categories. Same way is politics with our nu
68 Post contains links Beaucaire : So far four of the nine unions have signed a draft paper with CAI,but not the pilots neither the cabin staff.. The mess continues! http://afp.google.c
69 Gorgos : Big question is if any Alitalia flights were cancelled today after the statements about not being able to pay for fuel. Anybody seen one of those MD-8
70 Beaucaire : It seems the fuel supplies are granted ..
71 Post contains links Jamesontheroad : It's Monday morning, almost 0900 in Italy and no sign of any AZ flights cancelled so far.. Source: http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5guehFhhYVF1v5eV
72 Post contains links Jamesontheroad : Additional, from Bloomberg, source: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...1085&sid=ajb2KZ80q.A8&refer=europe
73 L410Turbolet : What percentage from that workforce number is actually members of the unions? Any estimate and/or comparison with percentage of unionized employees i
74 Breiz : Berlusconi is reported saying that if the unions do not agree with the offer, Alitalia will disappear. Isn't it Berlusconi who skinned Air France earl
75 Post contains links LHRBlueSkies : interesting update on BBC, and nice quoting from Mr Branson! http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7615903.stm It's unbelievable (but believeable knowin
76 LJ : Not if they think that they would be better of if AZ would go belley up. To think that eveyone has the same rational in these kind of situations woul
77 LHRBlueSkies : True... sad to say. Oh well, with flight & cabin crews still arguing...could be a very interesting next few hours. Think I'll book BA for my trip in
78 Janmnastami : I don't know the percentage of AZ, but if you refer to Italy in general, I could say that in the public sector (public and statal employees) the sect
79 LHRBlueSkies : As I go in for my nightshift in T4 it is intersting to think that AZ may not be joining us in March '09.... shame, 'cos I was lookin' forward to 'welc
80 Post contains links BuyantUkhaa : Google to the rescue! These are 2003 data but give an idea: http://www.eurofound.europa.eu/eiro/2004/03/update/tn0403105u.htm
81 RJ777 : I've said this before, and I'll say it again: "Stick a fork in 'em. They're done!"
82 Post contains links Beaucaire : Berlusconi at it's best ..! He promised to clean up the mess within AZ and refused an offer of Air France.Now his solution seems purely based on Itali
83 Janmnastami : " target=_blank>http://www.finanznachrichten.de/nach...7.asp The redundancies due to the plan of AF-KLM would have had a similar treatment (unemploym
84 LHRBlueSkies : Only in Italia!!! The company is dying, but still, hey, what the heck, I'll take the redundancy, get paid 80% of my original salary for the next 7 yea
85 ComeAndGo : The pilots are in the drivers seat. AirOne ordered another 90 aircraft and will need pilots to fly them. So, why should the pilots accept pay reductio
86 Kiwiandrew : if they were only interested in making money surely they wouldnt be going anywhere near AZ! but in any case I would hope that businessmen were intere
87 Janmnastami : Are you sure? You could have a discussion with the leader of ANPAC and you would change idea... Well, AZ has always been interested in making losses,
88 LHRBlueSkies : Ah, but u r so wrong - both politicians, management and unions all had a hand in the demise.. And no company should have 9 different unions to deal w
89 SQ325 : Depending on the point of view. All plans to restructure the company have been smashed by the unions. Italy is not functioning like other european co
90 Janmnastami : ?
91 Post contains links Kiwiandrew : from another thread http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...eneral_aviation/read.main/4141973/ we see a union and workforce with some very different vi
92 SQ325 : I don' t want drift into a political discussion as it would lead us offtopic and most probably into an endless disput!
93 L410Turbolet : Too bad no one wants to fire ME under such conditions...
94 StuckInCA : No kidding. It'd be one of the happiest days of my life!
95 MD11Engineer : With young pilots in Europe actually lining up to PAY airlines for the privilege of flying an airline, I'd think that any application of an ex-Alital
96 Post contains links Joost : Oh my :S One of the smaller unions have decided that today is a nice day to organize a 4 hour-strike. 40 flights ex FCO cancelled today, most on the F
97 Post contains links Beaucaire : http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolas_Machiavel he wasn't Italian for nothing...
98 ComeAndGo : some AZ employees earn €1300 per month. Under the new plan they would earn €800 a month, would have to work 30% more and guess what? There's no em
99 Post contains links Beaucaire : it is my understanding that the AZ employees get 14 months pay/year.. Source : http://www.ilgonline.com/archivenews.asp?RECORD_INDEX[ilgdb]=8[Edited 2
100 Banjo76 : That is correct and not unusual in many jobs in Italy. Minimum by law is 13, for some categories minimum is 14. For categories where minumum is 13, u
101 Janmnastami : The unions must give their answer, accepting or rejecting the plan, before tomorrow afternoon (4 PM) or CAI will cancel its offer.
102 Post contains links Beaucaire : Minister for social affairs, Maurizio Sacconi ,told the press that AZ have not received any offers from foreign airlines so far.. http://www.finanznac
103 Janmnastami : " target=_blank>http://www.finanznachrichten.de/nach...6.asp No offers for buying AZ, but contacts for taking a minority stake.
104 Post contains images Janmnastami : Protesting against the CAI's plan for AZ:
105 Post contains images ZRH : Haha. No I doubt that Silvio would do that but I also doubt that he could have such beautiful daughter...  [Edited 2008-09-17 09:03:08]
106 Banjo76 : Man, she's cute. I always get male, hairy FAs when I'm on AZ flights !!!
107 KL577 : I guess this might change the common (male-dominated) opinion at A.net regarding AZ . Let us hope AZ stays alive, Silvio rescue them !
108 SSTsomeday : I hope this isn't too egotistical (reposting my own post - below) but I now note that European entities are (this week) attempting to dismantle troubl
109 Janmnastami : It's happening exactly what you describe, a new company (CAI) buys some parts of AZ and AP and part of the workers with new contracts.
110 ComeAndGo : One of the unions claims that 10000 employees will loose their job. If true, that flies in the face of Berlusconi claiming to rescue AZ a company with
111 Janmnastami : It's not true, because part of those workers are working for companies actually controlled by AZ that will be sold to other investors, so they won't
112 Banjo76 : So where is the truth likely to be found? In the middle, as usual? That would mean that the # of layoffs is about the same, making the AF deal collap
113 ComeAndGo : The union claims that the difference between the total employees of new AZ is 6200 employees short of the total employees with fixed contracts at AZ,
114 Kiwiandrew : one thing I haven't seen any ask yet ...if , as seems likely , the unions manage to finally kill off AZ tomorrow what happens to AP ? I believe that c
115 Bennett123 : According to Airfleets, AP has 42 aircraft, of which 39 are A320/B737. They are somewhat limited on long haul.
116 Janmnastami : During these days, as a consequence of the situation of AZ, AP's load-factors have improved. If the unions will reject the plan for AZ and AZ will go
117 Post contains links SQ325 : Normally if your company is in trouble, you give all you can to help and rescue your company! I can' t understand what is going on south of the alps T
118 Janmnastami : Well, things aren't different in Italy, things are different only in the head of some unions' boss. Some unions have already accepted the plan, other
119 FlyingAY : Is that really what you do? When I have been working in a company, that got into an unstable situation I started to look for a new job and eventually
120 PanHAM : Interesting deadline set by the consortium. The unions have to OK the rescue plan by 03:50 pm or they will pull the offer. 03:50 pm Roman time or, as
121 Beaucaire : I'm afraid they will pull a last minute agreement,watering down the Investor's requests under Berluscon's pressure ,and conceding substantial jobless-
122 BAStew : Isn't that what politicians do though? Make lots of promises they cannot keep? Even better if it goes all wrong not long after being elected. You then
123 Art : If it happens one could argue that he is responsible for the closure of the airline. The prospect of revival and long term security was offered by AF
124 PanHAM : That's what a good number of Italians believe anyhow, regardless what happens to AZ. Whatever the outcome will be, Berlusconi will have an interpreta
125 Post contains links Beaucaire : He is having problems accepting the failure of his plans-now Berlusconi says,not all unions have to sign the deal in order to have it accepted .. he i
126 FlyingAY : Yeah, I suppose they can do without the pilots, FAs and the mechanics.
127 Beaucaire : Ten Minutes ago the pilot's Union has asked the Government to discuss a counter-proposal.. I don't see this soap-opera finished today...
128 BAStew : Why doesnt the consortium just invest their Euro1 Billion into Air One, get some more longhaul aircraft and eat Alitalia alive......and then pick up t
129 Beaucaire : It has to do with false political pride of Berlusconi,who got partially elected based on the slogan,he would rescue Alitalia.. Currently the last minu
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