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African Aviation: Current Situation And The Future  
User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9946 posts, RR: 15
Posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4607 times:

Hi,

As per another thread now running about a KQ 777 being damaged in Africa I started asking questions about the African aviation as I know little about the aviation in this part of the world. Having an idea about the aviation in all parts of the world is always nice to me. So here it goes....

My questions regarding the African aviation:


Which city pairs are the most lucrative and most profitable just as
LHR, CDG and FRA are in Europe?

Which African airline is the most dominant and/or strongest in Africa
and which parts of Africa? A breakdown in the categories profitability, financial strengths, route structure, most up to date fleet size and future strategies is highly appreciated.

Is consolidation expected among African airlines just as we are seeing
in other parts of the world (such as KL/AF and DL/NW)?

Any other interesting information on African aviation is very much welcomed!!

A388

25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineThomas_Jaeger From Switzerland, joined Apr 2002, 2397 posts, RR: 28
Reply 1, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4540 times:

The largest and most influential carriers I would say are South African, EgyptAir, Kenya, Ethiopian, Royal Air Maroc and Air Algérie in that order.


Swiss aviation news junkie living all over the place
User currently offlineENU From Netherlands, joined Nov 2006, 1166 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4385 times:

Is there any news on AirDC (DRCongo)? Latest I heard, was that the project between Brussel Airlines and Hewa Bora is death... The Congo government signed a new deal with RAK Airways to start a new Congo Airlines, but this deal collapsed too...

Source: http://www.thenational.ae/article/20080915/BUSINESS/767853737/-1/NEWS

How serious is the report that Air Ivoire will acquire three A330's?

Source: http://www.jeuneafrique.com/pays/cot...e.asp?art_cle=LIN24088legroeriovi0

Will TAM serve Luanda soon, as Oceanair no longer exists?


User currently offlineAlibo5NGN From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 773 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (6 years 1 month 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 4286 times:
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Quoting Thomas_Jaeger (Reply 1):
The largest and most influential carriers I would say are South African, EgyptAir, Kenya, Ethiopian, Royal Air Maroc and Air Algérie in that order

Ethiopian, Royal Air Maroc and Kenya Airways have larger networks than Egypt Air and South African Airways. Arik Air of Nigeria is set to burst into the international scene in much the same way as Jet Airways of India did.



It takes knowledge to make a career. It takes wisdom to live a life.
User currently offlineAirGabon From Switzerland, joined Dec 2003, 890 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (6 years 1 month 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4206 times:

Air Senegal International is doing very well i guess, with a modern fleet of 737-700.

Gabon Airlines seems to have ambitious plans too..


User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9946 posts, RR: 15
Reply 5, posted (6 years 1 month 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4153 times:



Quoting ENU (Reply 2):
Is there any news on AirDC (DRCongo)? Latest I heard, was that the project between Brussel Airlines and Hewa Bora is death... The Congo government signed a new deal with RAK Airways to start a new Congo Airlines, but this deal collapsed too...

Source: http://www.thenational.ae/article/20080915/BUSINESS/767853737/-1/NEWS

How serious is the report that Air Ivoire will acquire three A330's?

Source: http://www.jeuneafrique.com/pays/cot...e.asp?art_cle=LIN24088legroeriovi0

Will TAM serve Luanda soon, as Oceanair no longer exists?

I was not aware of these new airlines, interesting to see if they will indeed come off the ground.

A388


User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9946 posts, RR: 15
Reply 6, posted (6 years 1 month 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4152 times:



Quoting Alibo5NGN (Reply 3):
Ethiopian, Royal Air Maroc and Kenya Airways have larger networks than Egypt Air and South African Airways.

I wouldn't have thought this, how much bigger are Ethiopean, Royal Air Maroc and Kenya compared to Egypt Air and SAA? Are they larger in terms of their African network, their international network or both?

Quoting Alibo5NGN (Reply 3):
Arik Air of Nigeria is set to burst into the international scene in much the same way as Jet Airways of India did.

I have read mixed opinions about Arik Air so I'm not sure how much value I can give Arik Air yet.

A388


User currently offlineAF022 From France, joined Dec 2003, 2169 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (6 years 1 month 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4095 times:



Quoting AirGabon (Reply 4):
Air Senegal International is doing very well i guess, with a modern fleet of 737-700.

The last I heard, V7 was doing terrible. Have things improved?


User currently offlineAsoRock From Bahrain, joined May 2006, 322 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 1 month 4 weeks ago) and read 4001 times:



Quoting Alibo5NGN (Reply 3):
Ethiopian, Royal Air Maroc and Kenya Airways have larger networks than Egypt Air and South African Airways

Last time I checked Egypt Air had a network including more than 80 destinations with a fleet much larger than Ethiopian, RAM or Kenya Airways, it's also been admitted into Star Alliance.

I dont see how you imagine these to be larger than EgyptAir.


User currently offlineFlylot From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 187 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3983 times:

Just to clear up confusion, African operators ranking by fleet size:

MS
Fleet size 51 (+ 32 orders and 2 options)
Destinations 73

SAA
Fleet size 49
Destinations 35

AT
Fleet size 43 (+ 13 orders)
Destinations 73

ET
Fleet size 34 (+11 orders)
Destinations 50

AH
Fleet size 33
Destinations 74

TU
Fleet size 32 (+16 orders)
Destinations 53

KQ
Fleet size 26 (+11 orders, 5 options)
Destinations 42

Egyptair clearly wins and is clearly expanding.

While South African has released intent not to expand under its restructuring plan, which was implemented after years in the red. I had no idea that they got rid of their 747!

[Edited 2008-09-29 15:52:09]


"In Soviet Russia, airplane flies on you"
User currently offlineCchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1762 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3909 times:

Which African carriers fly the A32X series aircrafts? There don't seem to be a lot of them (compared to 737s) outside North Africa and the few that SAA operates.

User currently offlineKL577 From Netherlands, joined Oct 2006, 776 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3898 times:



Quoting AsoRock (Reply 8):
Quoting Alibo5NGN (Reply 3):
Ethiopian, Royal Air Maroc and Kenya Airways have larger networks than Egypt Air and South African Airways

Last time I checked Egypt Air had a network including more than 80 destinations with a fleet much larger than Ethiopian, RAM or Kenya Airways, it's also been admitted into Star Alliance.

I dont see how you imagine these to be larger than EgyptAir.



Quoting Flylot (Reply 9):
Egyptair clearly wins and is clearly expanding.

While South African has released intent not to expand under its restructuring plan, which was implemented after years in the red. I had no idea that they got rid of their 747!

That said ET, KQ and AT serve far more destinations in Africa than either MS or SA do. MS is strong in the Middle East and Europe and has a considerable domestic network, but serves very few destinations in Africa. SA is strong in SA and, well, where else?


User currently offlineFlylot From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 187 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 3769 times:

Quoting KL577 (Reply 11):
That said ET, KQ and AT serve far more destinations in Africa than either MS or SA do. MS is strong in the Middle East and Europe and has a considerable domestic network, but serves very few destinations in Africa. SA is strong in SA and, well, where else?

you have a point. Let rank the airlines by number of African destinations (excluding domestic):
KQ: 31
ET: 29
AT: 26
SA: 22
MS: 14
AH: 11
TU: 11
does anyone else notice that the list appears to have flipped? I guess I shouldn't really be surprised. I can't see how awarding routes between African countries can be given the size of the continent, cost of fuel, and GDP when you can use the same aircraft for flights to the ME and Europe.

[Edited 2008-09-30 17:11:18]


"In Soviet Russia, airplane flies on you"
User currently offlineRoyalAirMaroc From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2007, 187 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3743 times:



Quoting Flylot (Reply 12):
I can't see how awarding routes between African countries can be given the size of the continent, cost of fuel, and GDP when you can use the same aircraft for flights to the ME and Europe.

I'm not sure about other African carriers, but AT realistically are only able to operate flights within Africa primarily due to inbound traffic from the EU, CMN is used as the transit hub.



Life is a Journey, One Which I hope will include alot of Flights !! =]
User currently offlineImpacto From Canada, joined Mar 2007, 214 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3742 times:



Quoting Cchan (Reply 10):
Which African carriers fly the A32X series aircrafts? There don't seem to be a lot of them (compared to 737s) outside North Africa and the few that SAA operates.

Afriqiyah Airways A319/A320
Air Burkina A319
Air Mauritius A319
Air Ivoire A321
Air Tanzania A320
Egyptair A320/A321
Libyan Airlines A320
Nouvelair A320/A321
Royal Air Maroc A321?
SAA A319
Tunisair A320


User currently offlineTS-IOR From Tunisia, joined Oct 2001, 3489 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3677 times:

Tunisair operates 4x A319 too, and the last order included 10x A320, and 2x options !

User currently offlineAlibo5NGN From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 773 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3608 times:
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Quoting Impacto (Reply 14):
Afriqiyah Airways A319/A320
Air Burkina A319
Air Mauritius A319
Air Ivoire A321
Air Tanzania A320
Egyptair A320/A321
Libyan Airlines A320
Nouvelair A320/A321
Royal Air Maroc A321?
SAA A319
Tunisair A320

With the exception of SAA, Air Tranzania and Egypt Air, all the operators of Airbus in Africa have a connection to the French.



It takes knowledge to make a career. It takes wisdom to live a life.
User currently offlineKL577 From Netherlands, joined Oct 2006, 776 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3560 times:



Quoting Flylot (Reply 12):
does anyone else notice that the list appears to have flipped? I guess I shouldn't really be surprised. I can't see how awarding routes between African countries can be given the size of the continent, cost of fuel, and GDP when you can use the same aircraft for flights to the ME and Europe.

Primarily because KQ and ET connect Africa to the Dubai, India and China. Those countries do business in Africa, unlike the relatively small presence of European and American companies.


User currently offlineAirNovaBAe146 From Canada, joined Jun 2008, 366 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3520 times:



Quoting Flylot (Reply 9):

SAA
Fleet size 49
Destinations 35

What about if you counted SA Express, Airlink, and Mango? Fleet size would be bigger than MS. There isn't much 'regional' about the yields SA is getting by flying Express Q400s to FBM or Airlink E135s to Ndola.


User currently offlineAlessandro From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 3511 times:

As for manufacturing I see little done in ultralight planes in South Africa and quite a bit co-operation with Airbus for Tunisia, which manufacture a fair bit of parts to the A380.
As for demand, I think it´s high, railroads seem to suffer from lack of investment, ferries are not so well invested in either.
As for safety, I think it continue to be poor, but the 2nd hand market for Let´s and Antonovs will dry up when fewer are availble and Embraer will take a larger marketshare, Boeing/McDonnell-Douglas will be more common than Airbus for a long time especially B737, B747 and DC9&co
compared with the A300, A310, A320 and A340. I predict that China will continue to offer their airplanes at very low price to African countries and compete with 2nd hand airplanes,
Illjysin won´t sell any new planes, Tupolev a few.


User currently offlineFlylot From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 187 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3475 times:



Quoting AirNovaBAe146 (Reply 18):
What about if you counted SA Express, Airlink, and Mango? Fleet size would be bigger than MS. There isn't much 'regional' about the yields SA is getting by flying Express Q400s to FBM or Airlink E135s to Ndola.

your right, my observation was a bit crude given the two data tables. The data we really need is profits on routes between cities in Africa versus routes between Africa and ME/E. I've tried looking on airline websites but all I can find is general annual report numbers. Anyone know where else to look?



"In Soviet Russia, airplane flies on you"
User currently offlineCchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1762 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3339 times:

Just a quick question: among the major African airlines, which ones are profitable and which ones are constantly making losses? Thanks.

User currently offlineAF022 From France, joined Dec 2003, 2169 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3334 times:



Quoting Cchan (Reply 21):
Just a quick question: among the major African airlines, which ones are profitable and which ones are constantly making losses? Thanks.

It would be much easier to ask which make money, because the vast majority lose money - tons of it.

I would say ET and KQ are definitely profitable. I don't know much about North African carriers, but I would think these are two of just a very few that are profitable.


User currently offlineRoyalAirMaroc From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2007, 187 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3215 times:

From what i understand, AT and TU are making profits, whilst AH seem to be bleeding money due to the current position Algeria is in.


Life is a Journey, One Which I hope will include alot of Flights !! =]
User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 24, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3205 times:



Quoting ENU (Reply 2):
Is there any news on AirDC (DRCongo)? Latest I heard, was that the project between Brussel Airlines and Hewa Bora is death... The Congo government signed a new deal with RAK Airways to start a new Congo Airlines, but this deal collapsed too..

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...eneral_aviation/read.main/4166182/



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineMHTripple7 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1108 posts, RR: 8
Reply 25, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3184 times:

I believe MS and DT make profits as well.

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