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B737 Crashes In Perm, Russia  
User currently offlineAddd From United States of America, joined May 2007, 397 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 33091 times:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7614951.stm

Passenger plane crashes in Russia

A passenger plane has crashed near the central Russian city of Perm, Russian news agencies say, quoting emergency ministry officials.

The Boeing-737 was en route from Moscow and had 82 passengers on board.

The plane's wreckage was later found outside Perm - the city in the Urals, the Interfax news agency reported.

No further details were immediately available.

_____________________________________


Meanwjile, Russian news agencies and blogs unoficially identified the plane as Boeing 737-500 VP-BKO, Aeroflot-Nord flight SU 821 Moscow-Perm. Allegedly, several buildings on the ground are also destroyed (the crash site is on the outskirts of the city).

161 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAddd From United States of America, joined May 2007, 397 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 33183 times:

If the information about registration is accurate, here is the history of the plane:

http://www.airfleets.net/ficheapp/plane-b737-25792.htm

08/09/1992 Braathens LN-BRW

24/09/1992 Xiamen Airlines B-2591

12/03/1993 China Southwest Airlines B-2591

01/03/2003 Air China B-2591 Stored 03/2008

29/05/2008 Aeroflot-Nord VP-BKO


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21507 posts, RR: 60
Reply 2, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 33019 times:



Quoting Addd (Reply 1):
29/05/2008 Aeroflot-Nord VP-BKO

That means they just recently put it into service after it was stored for a couple of months.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineAddd From United States of America, joined May 2007, 397 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 33062 times:

First pictures from the crash site from Russian forums:

http://www.avsim.su/forum/index.php?showtopic=61323
http://teron.ru/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=3616626


User currently offlineAeroflot777 From Russia, joined Mar 2004, 3007 posts, RR: 27
Reply 4, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 32969 times:

My dad was supposed to be on that flight. Just called him, he missed check in by accident!
Just unbelievable. RIP to all those onboard!

Aeroflot777


User currently offlineAddd From United States of America, joined May 2007, 397 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 32627 times:

2 Admin -

Shall we combine two threads on the subject?


User currently offlineMal787 From Australia, joined Jul 2007, 687 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 32604 times:



Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 4):
My dad was supposed to be on that flight. Just called him, he missed check in by accident!
Just unbelievable. RIP to all those onboard!

You are 1 lucky guy. RIP to all

mal787



Flying cant get enough of it
User currently offlineAirbalticfan From United States of America, joined May 2008, 263 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 32338 times:

Some more info:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080914/ap_on_re_eu/russia_plane_crash

Another sad day in aviation.... Sad


User currently offlineIFlyATA From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 242 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 32006 times:

Weather appears to have been rather poor in the last 6 hours...

USPP 140300Z 06006MPS 9999 OVC006 07/07 Q1011 NOSIG RMK QBB200 QFE748/0997 SC050
USPP 140200Z 07006MPS 6000 -RA OVC009 07/07 Q1011 NOSIG RMK QFE748/0997 SC050
USPP 140100Z 07006MPS 3900 R21/P4300D -RA OVC007 07/06 Q1011 NOSIG RMK QFE748/0997 SC050
USPP 140000Z 06005MPS 7000 -RA OVC009 07/06 Q1011 NOSIG RMK QFE748/0997 SC050
USPP 132300Z 06005MPS 9999 -RA OVC008 07/06 Q1012 NOSIG RMK QFE748/0997 SC050
USPP 132200Z 06005MPS 7000 -RA OVC007 06/06 Q1012 NOSIG RMK QFE748/0998 FBL ICE INC SC050



ATA - an honestly different airline.
User currently offlineRIXrat From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 788 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 31926 times:

I'm quite surprised at so few replies for such a major disaster. We usually hear quicker feedback from African crashes. It must be about nine or 10 a.m. on Sunday in Perm.

There was another site on this with more postings which suddently dissappeared.


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26913 posts, RR: 58
Reply 10, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 31789 times:



Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 4):
My dad was supposed to be on that flight. Just called him, he missed check in by accident!
Just unbelievable. RIP to all those onboard!

Aeroflot777

Thank god he missed it .


RIP to all


User currently onlineKPDX From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2738 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 31734 times:

Damn! Too bad...  Sad RIP to all involved.


View my aviation videos on Youtube by searching for zildjiandrummr12
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13074 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 31700 times:

Here is a MSNBC.com link. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26692576/

Apparently all 88 on board were killed.

Quoting IFlyATA (Reply 8):

Could you translate what that weather report means?


User currently offline4holer From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 3011 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 31362 times:



Quoting RIXrat (Reply 9):
I'm quite surprised at so few replies for such a major disaster

A little surprised at the lack of response myself.
Are we jaded about airliner crashes these days?

Always sad to hear about such loss of life...



Ghosts appear and fade away.....................
User currently offlineZWZWUnited From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 197 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 31293 times:



Quoting 4holer (Reply 13):

I suppose there can only be so many people saying "RIP", "How tragic", etc. before it appears insincere. Maybe that is it? Either way, I will take a risk in saying that this is truly a tragic accident.

I know some people have a bugaboo about speculating, but I think it is rather interesting to speculate what might have occurred. Any ideas? I read one article (Al Jazeera I think) that said that weather was sub-par. Almost sounds MX rather than WX to me?

Any idea what A-Nord's safety record is?

~Tim



Drop it like its hott!
User currently offlineFlyPIJets From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 898 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 31296 times:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe...ussia.plane/index.html#cnnSTCVideo

CNN Reporting w/video.

Reporter asks an Aeroflot representative what is Aeroflot's safety record. Early in the interview, she indicates she thinks she is speaking with a Russian aviation expert - she doesn't realize she talking to someone working for the company that is having this tragedy happening to itself. Sad and wrong, but, typical when everyone expects immediate information.

(that video will most likely change has events unfold.

[Edited 2008-09-13 22:26:18]


DC-8, DC-9, DC-10, F28, 717, 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, IL-62, L-1011, MD-82/83, YS-11, DHC-8, PA-28-161, ERJ 135/145, E-1
User currently offlineJe89_w From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 2360 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 31281 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

Another crash with a significant number of fatalities. May all those who perished rest in peace.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 12):
Could you translate what that weather report means?

Here's my stab at it.

USPP 140300Z 06006MPS 9999 OVC006 07/07 Q1011 NOSIG RMK QBB200 QFE748/0997 SC050
USPP 140200Z 07006MPS 6000 -RA OVC009 07/07 Q1011 NOSIG RMK QFE748/0997 SC050
USPP 140100Z 07006MPS 3900 R21/P4300D -RA OVC007 07/06 Q1011 NOSIG RMK QFE748/0997 SC050
USPP 140000Z 06005MPS 7000 -RA OVC009 07/06 Q1011 NOSIG RMK QFE748/0997 SC050
USPP 132300Z 06005MPS 9999 -RA OVC008 07/06 Q1012 NOSIG RMK QFE748/0997 SC050
USPP 132200Z 06005MPS 7000 -RA OVC007 06/06 Q1012 NOSIG RMK QFE748/0998 FBL ICE INC SC050

Perm Bolshoye Savino Airport, issued on the 14th at 03:00Zulu, wind 060 at 6m/s, visiblity 10km, overcast at 600ft, temperature 7°C dew point 7°C, QNH barometer 1011mb, no significant changes in weather. Not sure of the rest.

Perm Bolshoye Savino Airport, issued on the 14th at 02:00Zulu, wind 070 at 6m/s, visiblity 6km, light rain, overcast at 900ft, temperature 7°C dew point 7°C, QNH barometer 1011mb, no significant changes in weather.

Perm Bolshoye Savino Airport, issued on the 14th at 01:00Zulu, wind 070 at 6m/s, visiblity 3.9km, light rain, overcast at 700ft, temperature 7°C dew point 6°C, QNH barometer 1011mb, no significant changes in weather.

Perm Bolshoye Savino Airport, issued on the 14th at 00:00Zulu, wind 060 at 5m/s, visiblity 7km, light rain, overcast at 900ft, temperature 7°C dew point 6°C, QNH barometer 1011mb, no significant changes in weather.

Perm Bolshoye Savino Airport, issued on the 13th at 23:00Zulu, wind 060 at 5m/s, visiblity 10km, overcast at 800ft, temperature 7°C dew point 6°C, QNH barometer 1012mb, no significant changes in weather.

Perm Bolshoye Savino Airport, issued on the 13th at 22:00Zulu, wind 060 at 5m/s, visiblity 7km, overcast at 700ft, temperature 6°C dew point 6°C, QNH barometer 1012mb, no significant changes in weather. Some icing going on?

So basically, we have a dreary night in Perm with about 13mph winds, low clouds, light rain, and visibility that dropped to about 3.9km at one point. Not sure how much of a role the weather played on the crash, but it could always have been a partial factor. Well, let's wait for the official report on the accident.


User currently offlineTUNisia From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1844 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 31266 times:

Isn't this the FIRST Aeroflot crash since the A310 crash on it was to BKK where the kid caused the autopilot to disengage?


Someday the sun will shine down on me in some faraway place - Mahalia Jackson
User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12428 posts, RR: 37
Reply 18, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 31001 times:



Quoting TUNisia (Reply 17):
Isn't this the FIRST Aeroflot crash since the A310 crash on it was to BKK where the kid caused the autopilot to disengage?

I think so; in fairness to Aeroflot, they've had a pretty good safety record in recent years. (Just to be a tiny bit picky, the A310 was en route to HKG).


User currently offlineJoKeR From Serbia, joined Nov 2004, 2238 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 30972 times:

Very sad, Aeroflot777 - wow, you must feel very lucky!


Kafa, čaj, šraf?
User currently offlineTUNisia From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1844 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 30945 times:



Quoting Kaitak (Reply 18):

I think so; in fairness to Aeroflot, they've had a pretty good safety record in recent years. (Just to be a tiny bit picky, the A310 was en route to HKG).

Yes, I know they've had an excellent safety record since the last crash! Sorry for the BKK / HKG error.. I was merely going from memory!



Someday the sun will shine down on me in some faraway place - Mahalia Jackson
User currently offlineAlessandro From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 30900 times:

Another pic of the wreck, http://www.expressen.se/polopoly_fs/...otWide75ArticleFull/3447786819.jpg
May the unfortunate rest in peace.


User currently offlineDALCE From Netherlands, joined Feb 2007, 1680 posts, RR: 7
Reply 22, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 30833 times:

I just heard the terrible news on the radio while bringing my GF to work.
Very sad news indeed.. May all perished rest in peace!
Yet another very sad day in aviation.
Is it just me or do we see an increase in disasters this year?

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 4):
My dad was supposed to be on that flight. Just called him, he missed check in by accident!
Just unbelievable. RIP to all those onboard!

He is one of the most lucky guys in the world right now!
Great that he missed his flight!



flown on : F50,F70,CR1,CR2,CR9,E75,143,AR8,AR1,733,735,736,73G,738,753,744,319,320,321,333,AB6.
User currently offlineAlessandro From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 30599 times:

Some stats from this year, http://aviation-safety.net/statistics/period/barometer.php

User currently offlineBoeingluvr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 30509 times:



Quoting Mal787 (Reply 6):
You are 1 lucky guy. RIP to all

mal787

His Dad is one lucky guy too haha! I bet that puts an interesting perspective on life...


25 Pilotaydin : Damn this sucks, im just about to go to work too, i hate waking up to 737 crashes I will be flying 4 legs today, and for some reason it always sits in
26 Post contains links Bt001 : list of passangers and crew in cyrillic: http://www.lenta.ru/news/2008/09/14/list/spisok.htm RIP.
27 Post contains links Alessandro : More pics here http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article3313446.ab
28 Aeroflot777 : This was an Aeroflot-NORD flight operating codeshare for Aeroflot. Because most of the pax on board the flight bought their tickets through Aeroflot,
29 Aeroflot777 : 38. Нахумов Ифраим, 16.10.1972 39. Нахумов Голда, 09.03.1984 40. Нахумов Илья, 08.05.2001 41. Нахумова Е
30 Trintocan : What a tragic accident. May those who lost their lives rest in peace and their loved ones come to term with their loss - although that will take a lot
31 Alessandro : 67 of the victims where Russian citizens, 21 was of other nationalities, 9 Azerbadjizani, 1 French, 1 German, 1 Latvian ,1 Italian, 1 Swiss, 1 Turkish
32 Uzzzer : This crash will affect Aeroflot safety record from passenger perspective due to co-branding with NORD. This is why it is so improtant to have the sam
33 OlegShv : RIP to all of those who were on board.
34 SIBILLE : That's strange most of the crashes in ex USSR the last few years involve Western built aircraft (I mean for passenger crashes as most of the cargo cra
35 Post contains links Sovietjet : http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080914/ap_on_re_eu/russia_plane_crash You gotta love this part "Russia and the other former Soviet republics have some th
36 Bt001 : as per lenta.ru: В пресс-службе "Аэрофлота" сообщили РИА Новости, что пять человек, в том ч
37 BestWestern : There for the grace of god we all go. I flew Aeroflot Nord this week on a domestic flight from SVO. Comfortable aircraft (with Bmi seating), great cre
38 Alessandro : Well, the environment they fly in are challenging to start with and in that size of aircraft the western made models are becoming common. In the larg
39 Ikramerica : I've ceased to be surprised that people jump to conclusions and judge people so quickly without first checking the time and realizing it's Saturday n
40 Sleeperseat : Wonderful that at least your dad escaped that tragedy. Seriously, if that would ever happen to me i would celebrate my second birthday on that day. I
41 Airbuseric : According local Dutch media, debris of the wreckage is spread over an area over over 4km width. This might mean that the aircraft had fallen apart alr
42 Nautilusgr : Of course! Why georgia, man? why not al-qaeda? while we are dreaming, why not a mix of international terrorists highly trained in FSX? You are not go
43 EMA747 : Not another crash RIP to those that lost their lives and I hope all those left behind find the strenght to come with their losses.
44 Aleksandar : Спаси и сохрани их... Bog da mi dusu prosti. Just made me sad to hear it. Yesterday was my birthday, so I wasn't looking at aviation ne
45 LHRspotter : Extremely daft response to a perfectly legitimate question. Perhaps you believe that CNN employs more experts than the hundreds of aviation enthusiat
46 HAWK21M : Any Preliminary report out yet officially. regds MEL
47 Aleksandar : I guess it is too early, but my guess is that weather might have played a significant role in it. The flight went on smooth from Moscow to Perm
48 SASDC8 : Terrible crash. My thought are with does who lost their lives and their families. Just wondering; is this the first 737-500 crash? typical western med
49 Acabgd : IL-96 has a perfect safety record (0 accidents, 0 deaths), while IL-86 has one in-flight accident resulting in fatalities (JUL28 2002, Pulkovo at SVO
50 Acabgd : Asiana Airlines B737-500 crashed on JUL26 1993 when approaching Mokpo (MPK), South Korea in bad weather and after two missed approaches. 110 deaths.
51 NA : Hull loss no.4 for a 737-500. In 1993 an Asiana 753 crashed, in 2002 one from Egyptair. The third was a Continental aircarft, which was w/o in a land
52 DocLightning : That's really intense when that happens. My best friend from high school was supposed to be on TW800 on the fateful day. However, he'd decided to go
53 SKAirbus : RIP to all those who perished... I must admit I am shocked at the lack of response in the press and here... The BBC has it as a sub story and the reac
54 Post contains links SASDC8 : Thanks Acabgd and NA for swift info on the 737-500's. http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/uriks/article2652402.ece According to the article in Aftenpost
55 AFKL : A sad day in aviation. Is there any information concerning people wounded or killed on the ground? ALLARD.
56 SU : RIP to all those who were on board... Very sad news Aeroflot just has informed of suspending all of its activities with its Aeroflot Nord Subsidiary
57 Acabgd : Preliminary info says no one on the ground was killed/injured. The bulk of the debris landed square on the Trans-Siberian railway, right on the track
58 SU : No agency is reporting of anything like that on the ground it's around 4 kilometers in radius lose and fire in one of the engines
59 Acabgd : Doesn't this sound as an overreaction? It would be ok to maybe ground all B737-500s they have (anyone know how many?), but to suspend the whole airli
60 SashA : RIP to those on board. They probably (SU) feel it's appropriate now in the light of the circumstances to be seen taking radical actions, bloody PR mac
61 SU : In fact media here is mentioning little the "Aeroflot Nord" in the headlines and almost everywhere uses "Aeroflot's plane crash"
62 SEPilot : Well, to set your mind at ease, since the 737 is the most numerous jetliner in service in the world today the chance of one crashing is higher than f
63 Acabgd : Pilotaydin flies the 737 himself, so I'm pretty sure he's aware of that. I do, however, understand his point - it's not particularly nice to wake up
64 SandroZRH : Apparently the other thread was deleted, so again, RIP to all the victims. Excellent post, couldnt agree more.
65 Plairbus : First I want to say RIP for all the passangers and wish the family memebrs all the best. Second: Aeroflot has no good safty record, just because a few
66 Uzzzer : That's what I wrote earlier (reply 32) - for SU this is about reputation, and unwise co-branding with (apparently) different business standards and p
67 Airlittoralguy : It's not aeroflot but aeroflot nord. It's just not fair to say that it's an aeroflot aircraft that crashed. Would you say that the delta connection cr
68 HT : That exactly was my impression & idea too. Little hint: The word is spelled "debris". One of the articles linked in the early posts indicated that th
69 Acabgd : You should first read the original post - noone was comparing B737 to IL86/96.
70 Aleksandar : If you suspect of some kind of terrorist attack, I doubt it is the case. They usually happen in earlier stages of flight, not on landing.
71 Viscount724 : That was their last fatal accident.
72 Nautilusgr : Your answer is even better. Let me explain 2 u 2, CNN is the right place to find terrorist speculations. I guess these professionals can answer the q
73 Post contains links Group51 : "My neighbours, other witnesses, told me that it was burning in the air." Hmm. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7614951.stm
74 Airbalticfan : A lot of young souls....very sad
75 SeansasLCY : BBC reporting Aeroflot Nord will be striped of using the Aeroflot name: "Aeroflot conducted its own investigation into the causes of the crash and, wi
76 UK_Dispatcher : To have reached any sort of conclusion at this stage, especially one that promts SU to fully dissociate itself from Aeroflot Nord, does indeed seem s
77 UN_B732 : Has anyone heard the theory this might be an act of terrorism? Seems like some SVO news sources are speculating it might've been blown up. -A
78 Post contains links OlegShv : Pictures from local blogger. http://www.permistika.ru/?p=157
79 Flighty : Now that's * VERY * interesting. RIP to the people.
80 Post contains links Addd : Engine failure has been cited as a probable cause: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...russia-plane-crash,0,3299178.story Russian jet crashes in Ur
81 SuseJ772 : Yes, but this isn't a Hurricane forum. I'd take the information here on Airliners.net (not everyone, but those I respect) any day over CNN.
82 Aleksandar : Unless people in Aeroflot know something that the rest of us don't. Maybe it is a result of some huge mistake in Aeroflot Nord. Maybe problems were t
83 Haan : RIP to everyone that lost loved ones. Just a Question about Aeroflot-Nord registration VP-BKO. Isn't VP-??? a Bermuda registered aircraft, and why????
84 SFO2SVO : Agreed. Also strange that there is no press release on Aeroflot's own site. And Aeroflot's site still appears to allow booking Perm flights for Octob
85 DeC : Why surprised? It's in Russia. Had it been somewhere else more "Western-y" the press would be already fired up with the usual armies of tv experts an
86 Khobar : I read this headline, and then I read - Well, of course. But put it into perspective - one could just as easily say pilot error may have caused the c
87 Post contains links Readytotaxi : http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7615622.stm The site says that there was a fire in right hand engine, as it is too soon to detail the flight r
88 JoeCattoli : It is, it's because Russia impose huge taxes to register Western-built aircrafty, and it's therefore more convenient to register them somewhere else
89 Gonzalo : Sad news. Well, certainly too late for that...and the reason is : I'm pretty sure he knows that...he's the PILOT... Far from my intentions to bash thi
90 Macc : love that part. Perm has over a million people.
91 Viscount724 : I believe all current non-Russian aircraft operated by SU are registered in Bermuda.
92 Aleksandar : Well, the last time I looked at some major news network to find out what is going on was when JetBlue had an emergency landing at LAX. The journalist
93 L-188 : Damm that is unbelievably close to my moms story. She had a standby ticket for the 727 that Alaska Airlines packed in in 71 in Juneau. She didn't get
94 767nutter : just proves that fate exist! RIP
95 SKAirbus : I'm sure about that... i think it's just coincidence... But yes RIP to all those lost... Aeroflot coming out with a post crash analysis only hours af
96 Argonaut : The use of foreign-registered aircraft by Russian airlines is a little like the "flag of convenience" phenomenon familiar in registering ships. It's
97 Comorin : Has a modern jetliner ever crashed because of an engine fire? How can such an event cause a loss of control of the aircraft? Thanks,
98 SASDC8 : Sorry about that! Thats what happens when you trust auto correction Was not what I was thinking about. I was speculating more in what might have caus
99 CrimsonNL : Tragic, does anyone know to whom the airframe belongs? To Aeroflot-Nord? Or to a lease company?
100 Tdscanuck : That doesn't make sense. It would have to be something in addition the engine failure (if there was one)...the airplane can still do everything it ne
101 MCOflyer : Very tragic indeed. May those who died RIP. Hunter
102 Viscount724 : I believe it's owned by SNN-based leasing company AerCap Ireland Ltd., part of AMS-based AerCap Holdings N.V.
103 American 767 : That's right. It is very unlikely that an engine failure is the only cause of the crash, pilots are trained to deal with an engine failure in flight.
104 Banjo76 : Couldn't it be that the engine fire damaged all 3 hydraulic systems in such way that the aircraft was inoperable? I remember (don't exactly recall no
105 Acabgd : Wow, now this sounds like CNN... Sioux City crash was due to uncontained engine No.2 failure which ruptured hydraulic lines, cargo door was Turkish A
106 SandroZRH : I know one shouldn't speculate, but i read somewhere that they were flying an NDB approach (take this with a grain of salt) which lead to the crash.
107 Banjo76 : I know it's a different arframe, different scenario and I never said that the failure of the door damaged the hydraulics of the plane. I was just say
108 Acabgd : Don't mention that one pls, I was working at ZRH at the time, waiting for a pax from that last flight of the day when we got the word they will not b
109 Acabgd : My bad, I apparently misunderstood. As for engine bringing down an airliner, the El Al Cargo B747 at AMS comes to mind. However, why no mayday call f
110 Tdscanuck : Well, no, but that's just because the 737 only has two hydraulic systems. An engine fire, by itself, should only paralyze one system. That was a comb
111 SandroZRH : tell me about it. My ex girlfriends dad died in that accident
112 Post contains links 474218 : Suggest you read the following: http://www.planecrashinfo.com/cause.htm
113 AirNZ : Not trying to pick holes, but I find it interesting that you allegedly don't jump to conclusions but yet seem to have no difficulty whatever in quite
114 SandroZRH : err yes, i attended countless human performance & limitations and CRM lessons, you need not tell me anything about the subject. Yet I always find it
115 Post contains links MAC26000 : The following was just posted on www.avherald.com, for what its worth A tower controller at Perm reported, that the crew did not follow ATC instructio
116 474218 : I agree, I have been a several accident/incident investigation teams and on each occasion the first thing we were told was not to speculate as to the
117 SandroZRH : Yeah no worries, sorry if I my answer seemed rude.
118 Gonzalo : If this transcription is true ( yes, i know, another "IF"...), something very abnormal happened in that cockpit..i'm not saying anything like "terror
119 Addd : Russian media have been widely discussing this for the last 12 hours quoting, among others, General Manager of Perm's Bolshoye Savino airport.
120 Kalvado : Probably completely unrelated, but I just came a cross an official memo on a close call in LED back in November 2006. pilots did something very weird
121 Gonzalo : Well, if you ask me my answer is yes !!... When a crew, for any reason, fails the execution of the standard operations of his aircraft ( specially du
122 UN_B732 : I know little about crashes; but the incidents sound similar. Almost as though there was some weird control issue. Do we know who's 735 had the incide
123 HAWK21M : Not Two...But Three Hydraulic systems & Manual reversion too. regds MEL
124 Acabgd : You mean like the witnesses in Madrid stating that one engine on that Spanair bird exploded - when later it turned out that the probable cause was th
125 UK_Dispatcher : Same here. The press often tend to find to find complete a-holes and broadcast their accounts which are usually as sensationalist as the news agencie
126 BuyantUkhaa : Sounds like they lost situational awareness completely... sounds a bit like the Armavia crash in Sochi. Also dark, low visibility. But anyway, let's
127 Aleksandar : Exactly, usually eyewitnesses are people who know very little about aviation, plus it was way to stressful experience for them. It is almost impossib
128 Post contains links Addd : ... or for that, matter as the Gulf Air crash off Bahrain in 2000: http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20000823-0 http://aviation-safet
129 Spacecadet : Shouldn't matter. They have instruments. However, if the pitot ports are blocked due to ice forming during flight...
130 OPNLguy : On that same note, one of the reporters covering the damage from Hurricane Ike here in Texas was talking about damage in one little town, and he iden
131 Acabgd : What was this story I read about poor GPS coverage in parts of Russia, including around Perm. Can anyone confirm that?
132 Gonzalo : You can lost situational awareness, and you can lost your speed and altitude bugs if you have the pitot blocked...but when you have an instruction to
133 TUNisia : Sounds like the Flash Air crash off SSH
134 Tdscanuck : I take it you're counting the standby system, in addition to A & B? Tom.
135 HAWK21M : Thats Correct. regds MEL
136 BuyantUkhaa : That is the key question, and that's why I said they lost situational awareness - or there was something else going on in the cockpit, but the commun
137 Kalvado : Airport may have no differential GPS capability, or may have no GPS runway data published- but receivers themselves would be fine around the globe.
138 Post contains images MilesDependent : All very sad. I flew SVO-PEE-SVO last October on an SU Tu-134. Great flight. Perm is a top little airport. Can't say much about the city, as we never
139 Spacecadet : Not necessarily. You're assuming they had situational awareness at that point. Lots of pilots have lost situational awareness and thought they were t
140 Post contains images Zeke : They have only got an ILS on one end, runway 21, runway 03, they way the wind would favor only has an NBD approach. Just to put some of this in persp
141 Pilotaydin : again, simplicity is key, just because an aircrew is trained to handle a situation, it doesn't mean the specific two people working that day have the
142 CURLYHEADBOY : Found this video apparently showing Aeroflot Flight 821 last moments, It seems you can actually see the landing lights as the plane nose-dives into th
143 Pilotaydin : wow, that's sad... the sink rate is seriously high from what i see, those look like the wing landing lights (retracts) judging from the distance betwe
144 Tdscanuck : Not even close. Commercial aircraft don't glide that well, but they don't glide anywhere that badly. Or total loss of orientation. More than one CFIT
145 Pilotaydin : with flaps in and no engines, they don't glide like the perm 737 did in that video, from what i recall in the sim...something else went wrong there i
146 Post contains links YVRLTN : According to JACDEC, the pilots reported engine problems prior to the crash - Im sure not where they got that information from or if that has been sub
147 Viscount724 : Has it been clarified whether the aircraft exploded while airborne as reported by witnesses? Several news reports said that wreckage was spread over a
148 Gonzalo : The video above ( Reply 142 ) shows the aircraft crashing almost vertically with the ground and looking slowly the wing-landing lights suggests a sig
149 Post contains links RussianJet : More CCTV footage of the impact from different perspectives..... http://www.rian.ru/video/20080917/151340122.html
150 Mandala499 : Was VP-BKO GPS equipped? The 737 Classics (-3/4/5) don't have GPS receivers as standard. Although some had it retrofitted or had it integrated (norma
151 Addd : No, the crash site is actually fairly compact (10,000 sq. m or so) and everything points to the plane being in one piece and intact until it hit the
152 Post contains links Addd : So much for the engine fire theory: http://www.rbcnews.com/free/20080918183535.shtml Both engines from crashed Boeing fully-functioning until collisio
153 Acabgd : As I said (and got flamed): Witnesses are an inherently inaccurate species.
154 Post contains links Zeke : New development : Russia calls for grounding of all 737 aircraft "Russia's aviation authority has called for the immediate grounding of all passenger
155 Viasa : Not true! I've telephoned with a german friend who is in Murmansk at the moment. He told me, that there are Boeing 737s how operate.
156 Tdscanuck : If the article is to be believed, it looks like they didn't actually ground the 737's, they grounded the 737 pilots: "Citing statements by RIA Novost
157 Zeke : This would not be the first time, a number of accidents have been linked to the differences between western and eastern block ADIs.
158 MerlinIIIB : Regarding the CCTV footage showing the wing landing lights...if the aircraft dived INVERTED, could the landing lights still be visible?
159 Tdscanuck : Depends which side you're on. Also depends on which landing lights you're talking about...the ones in the wing roots should be visible from both side
160 DingDong : Hmmmm. Interesting thought. Having gotten the better of my curiosity, does anyone here have a pointer to a photo showing eastern bloc ADIs? Never rea
161 MerlinIIIB : The CCTV (reply 142) seems to show the aircraft in a steep decent DIRECTLY TOWARDS the camera, perhaps at 40-50 degrees nose-down angle. What the fil
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