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Porter Airlines To Chicago  
User currently offlineEWRandMDW From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 416 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 6115 times:

In today's Chicago Tribune, on page 13 of the main section, there's a full-page ad alerting the traveling public to "Keep an eye out" for Porter Airlines starting service to downtown Toronto in Fall 2008. I checked the Porter website and saw nothing about this. Can anyone provides details on when service will start and will it be from Midway as past posts have suggested?

40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineElBandGeek From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 755 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 5842 times:

Last I heard it was supposed to start sometime in October. It might do pretty well initially but with the WS/WN partnership starting up at some point next year, I don't know if they're gonna be able to sell a Q400 over a 737, even if its more direct service to downtown through YTZ.

User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6771 posts, RR: 17
Reply 2, posted (6 years 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 5832 times:

Does anyone know which airports they are looking in the US? Porter already flies to EWR.. so if they add CHI what are the other possibilities?


Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25300 posts, RR: 22
Reply 3, posted (6 years 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 5776 times:



Quoting ElBandGeek (Reply 1):
Last I heard it was supposed to start sometime in October.

Porter's founder and CEO, Robert Deluce, gave the following speech last week in Montreal and said "...our next new destination, Chicago, will be starting this fall."
http://www.canadianclub-montreal.ca/en/events/speech/DeluceR.pdf


User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (6 years 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 5659 times:

So can I fly Porter from Chicago all the way to Halifax?

User currently offlineAllegiantAir From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 1733 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (6 years 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 5553 times:

Which airport would they use? ORD, MDW? Or could they venture over to GYY? I think MDW would make the most sense.


Live to Fly.
User currently offlineBbinn333 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (6 years 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 5528 times:



Quoting AllegiantAir (Reply 5):
I think MDW would make the most sense.

It would be cheaper too .


User currently offlineJean Leloup From Canada, joined Apr 2001, 2116 posts, RR: 19
Reply 7, posted (6 years 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 5469 times:



Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 4):
So can I fly Porter from Chicago all the way to Halifax?

Not usually, at least not right away - Halifax has only seen daily service in the summer season the last two years, returning to weekend-only service during the 'business year'. Much like the more recent Quebec City flights and the winter ski-weekend flights, the Halifax flights are mostly a way to keep utilization high during off-peak times for business travel, which constitutes the lion's share of Porter's RPK's.

You should be able to connect to YOW or YUL, however, although the competitive value of this option is lower because of the connection, I guess. Porter is very much a point-to-point airline at the moment, given that connections don't make much sense in their current route structure. CHI could change that, given that it's a spoke which goes in a different direction from the existing spokes. I still think that most of PD's traffic will be Toronto-O&D-centric for the foreseeable future, however.

JL



Next flight.... who knows.
User currently offlineHatbutton From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1500 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (6 years 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 5399 times:



Quoting ElBandGeek (Reply 1):
It might do pretty well initially but with the WS/WN partnership starting up at some point next year, I don't know if they're gonna be able to sell a Q400 over a 737, even if its more direct service to downtown through YTZ.

Isn't that the point? I thought that was their business model? That you had more direct service to downtown Toronto rather than flying into YYZ?

If people wanted to fly bigger jets then why has the EWR route done favorably if AC, CO, UA all offer non-stops on that route to YYZ?


User currently offlineElmoTheHobo From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1539 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (6 years 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5242 times:



Quoting AllegiantAir (Reply 5):
Or could they venture over to GYY?

No way in hell would they fly to Gary, Indiana. Maybe when Ryanair Canada launches transborder service, but until then any airline, particularly an airline marketing itself as a premium carrier will use O'Hare or Midway. Midway, being closer to downtown, makes more sense.


User currently offlinePnwtraveler From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 2241 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (6 years 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 5195 times:

I am assuming Porter is flying to Midway. They are mostly looking for point to point versus interconnect with other airlines. The time savings from downtown Toronto to almost downtown Chicago will offset the slightly slower aircraft and still enable them to talk about convenience over AA, AC and UA.

Boston is on the list as well. Then I would assume if all goes well a Halifax year round will come on board.


User currently offlineElmoTheHobo From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1539 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (6 years 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 5174 times:



Quoting Pnwtraveler (Reply 10):
The time savings from downtown Toronto to almost downtown Chicago will offset the slightly slower aircraft and still enable them to talk about convenience over AA, AC and UA.

At 400 miles in congested airspace the time difference is negligible, if there is any. Cruising at below more congested air routes will also keep them competitive with the jets operated by AA/AC/UA/WS (whenever they start), not to mention that they'll be the only people flying so close into Toronto.


User currently offlineMEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4328 posts, RR: 35
Reply 12, posted (6 years 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5044 times:



Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 2):
so if they add CHI what are the other possibilities?

I don't have an actual source if they consider any of them, but Detroit, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Boston, Washington, Cincinnati, Albany and Philadelphia are all within the reach of the Q400. Buffalo is probably too close to bother.



nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
User currently offlineEnviroTO From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 825 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4960 times:

I don't think Porter is going for the same market segment as WS/WN. They prefer easy to access centrally located airports, allow you to help yourself to the fridge and newspaper in their regular passenger lounge, and give meals and alcohol on every flight. Porter definitely will not fly out of Gary. Boston is the next destination after Chicago. After that it will likely be Washington or Philadelphia.

User currently offlineAirportplan From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 469 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (6 years 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4921 times:



Quoting ElBandGeek (Reply 1):
Last I heard it was supposed to start sometime in October. It might do pretty well initially but with the WS/WN partnership starting up at some point next year, I don't know if they're gonna be able to sell a Q400 over a 737, even if its more direct service to downtown through YTZ.

Porter is planning to use MDW which will also be the primary US connection point for the WN/WS alliance. I think Porter will be intially sucessful at MDW but the WN/WS combo will eventually kill them with frequency and pricing.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22992 posts, RR: 20
Reply 15, posted (6 years 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4838 times:



Quoting Pnwtraveler (Reply 10):
The time savings from downtown Toronto to almost downtown Chicago will offset the slightly slower aircraft and still enable them to talk about convenience over AA, AC and UA.

 checkmark  The question, though, is whether there's enough downtown to downtown traffic. There's a good chunk of Chicago business for which ORD is so much more convenient than MDW that MDW isn't even really an option.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineUnited_Fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7496 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (6 years 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4826 times:



Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 12):
I don't have an actual source if they consider any of them, but Detroit, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Boston, Washington, Cincinnati, Albany and Philadelphia are all within the reach of the Q400. Buffalo is probably too close to bother.

Howabout ROC,we get 2x Beach 1900D to YYZ.



'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently offlineAAmd11 From UK - Wales, joined Nov 2001, 1059 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (6 years 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4765 times:



Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 4):
So can I fly Porter from Chicago all the way to Halifax?

Currently they fly to Halifax on a Friday night (7pm departure from YTZ) and Sunday afternoon (2:30pm departure). Both flights go through YOW.

Quoting AllegiantAir (Reply 5):
I think MDW would make the most sense.

Porter thinks so, too.  Wink

Quoting Jean Leloup (Reply 7):
You should be able to connect to YOW or YUL, however, although the competitive value of this option is lower because of the connection, I guess.

YTZ-YUL-YHZ was only last summer - at no point since has the service resumed. One would assume that there was too much low-value YTZ-YHZ traffic on that route, while YOW-YHZ had plenty of its own traffic to justify the route. I guess the YUL-YHZ traffic just wasn't as great. Also, in the winter, YUL got some of the YTM traffic.

If you're planning on going to Halifax during the Christmas period, you're in for a treat... there will be, I believe, a total of 5 flights from YTZ to YHZ. Two of these will be direct flights.  Wink That begins on December 17th and ends January 6th I believe...

------

Back to MDW service... PD is due to receive two new Q400s in early October. The planes will then be put into service on existing routes to allow everyone to get a grip on them, figure out all the quirks and so on... and then MDW should begin in November. November 3rd - the first Monday - is my guess.


User currently offlineIrobertson From Canada, joined Apr 2006, 601 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (6 years 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4742 times:

Quoting Hatbutton (Reply 8):

If people wanted to fly bigger jets then why has the EWR route done favorably if AC, CO, UA all offer non-stops on that route to YYZ?

The big issue is YYZ fees and traffic. I priced out a trip on AC YYZ-EWR and Porter YTZ-EWR, and for a one way trip, it was $110 after taxes on Porter and $156 on Air Canada. The base fares were identical, but all the YYZ fees made it $46 more. Plus, it's a 15 min bus ride from downtown to YTZ, as opposed to 45 min to pearson, where you find massive queues at the baggage drop offs, security, etc...

So, why would I pay Air Canada more money to take longer, and give me poorer inflight service, only to have a CRJ or E175, which isn't any more or less comfortable than a Q400? Same goes for Westjet to Midway. Porter will win because they're simply more efficient and they can offer better service for a comparable price.

[Edited 2008-09-15 08:12:58]

User currently offlineGSPSPOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3029 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (6 years 2 days ago) and read 4600 times:



Quoting ElBandGeek (Reply 1):
but with the WS/WN partnership starting up at some point next year, I don't know if they're gonna be able to sell a Q400 over a 737, even if its more direct service to downtown through YTZ.

Wouldn't they be serving totally different types of customers? Would they really actually compete at all? My impression is that Porter, while very small, is more of a "premium service" carrier.



Finally made it to an airline mecca!
User currently offlinePnwtraveler From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 2241 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (6 years 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4528 times:

If you are anywhere in downtown or midtown Toronto the time to get to YTZ is less. However, the time in the airport and stress of lines etc. is minimal at YTZ vs. YYZ. Much more relaxed and less stressful. I live 15 minutes from YYZ and 15 minutes from YTZ when there is no traffic. I have never flown Porter but will be very tempted to unless it is during the morning rush downtown. Particularly next time I fly to NYC. Maybe the US Customs will be more relaxed and polite there too than the ones at YYZ.

User currently onlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19227 posts, RR: 52
Reply 21, posted (6 years 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4498 times:

What frequencies could Porter realistically operate to both MDW?


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22992 posts, RR: 20
Reply 22, posted (6 years 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4493 times:



Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 21):
What frequencies could Porter realistically operate to both MDW?

MDW has plenty of gate space so there's no airport-based constraint there; obviously, that doesn't meant that they could profitably operate 12 flights a day.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineCcrlR From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 2236 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4453 times:
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Quoting AllegiantAir (Reply 5):
Which airport would they use? ORD, MDW? Or could they venture over to GYY? I think MDW would make the most sense.

They would have to consider MDW. Remmeber Canjet when they said they were going to fly to Chicago? They chose MDW even though they did not need to use Customs there.

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 9):

No way in hell would they fly to Gary, Indiana. Maybe when Ryanair Canada launches transborder service, but until then any airline, particularly an airline marketing itself as a premium carrier will use O'Hare or Midway. Midway, being closer to downtown, makes more sense.

Gary does not have any US Customs facilities for incoming flights not going through a preclearance airport like YYZ. YTZ does not have preclearance(It has customs facilities but no preclearance to the USA), so the flights to the US Airports have to go through Customs. MDW has it for all the flights served by ATA, Mexicana, Frontier, and other charters from Mexico and the Carribean. There is talk to add a facility, but there needs to be service for that to happen.

Quoting Pnwtraveler (Reply 10):
I am assuming Porter is flying to Midway. They are mostly looking for point to point versus interconnect with other airlines. The time savings from downtown Toronto to almost downtown Chicago will offset the slightly slower aircraft and still enable them to talk about convenience over AA, AC and UA.

EWR, and MDW both have a way to downtown via public transportation(Except EWR could have helicopter service if Porter chooses to offer it like other airlines to there in the NYC area) and that is their catch when it comes to the passenger leaving from downtown to the airport.

Quoting Irobertson (Reply 18):
So, why would I pay Air Canada more money to take longer, and give me poorer inflight service, only to have a CRJ or E175, which isn't any more or less comfortable than a Q400? Same goes for Westjet to Midway. Porter will win because they're simply more efficient and they can offer better service for a comparable price.

Air Canada used to fly airbuses and some CRJ's before making it an all Embraer/CRJ route. The airline caters to business customers, but some other people may want to use the service like sports fans since most of the sports stadiums in Chicago can be reachd by bus or train. Toronto has most of their sports venues downtown and you can take public transportation to get there and being there, it is a little easier and a shorter commute since you just have to take a ferry to the mainland and take the bus or train from there.



"He was right, it is a screaming metal deathtrap!"-Cosmo (from the Fairly Oddparents)
User currently offlineYYZatcboy From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 1081 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4435 times:
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It's probably a question of available aircraft. When are they getting their next bunch?


DHC1/3/4 MD11/88 L1011 A319/20/21/30 B727 735/6/7/8/9 762/3 E175/90 CRJ/700/705 CC150. J/S DH8D 736/7/8
25 Viscount724 : The ability to pre-clear U.S. immigration/customs at YYZ is an advantage. With Porter you have to clear those formalities on arrival in EWR which cou
26 Cubsrule : Of course, at MDW you have a situation where the formalities might well take LESS time than they would take at YYZ.
27 Post contains links YOWza : IT will be MDW. Given the nightmare porter is having with on time departures at EWR I doubt ORD is even an option. Not to mention the fact that MDW w
28 AAmd11 : As stated elsewhere, you'll be dealing with US Customs in EWR rather than Toronto... are they likely to be any more relaxed/polite? They seem to indi
29 Sebring : South of St. Clair St., that's probably true, but I'm in midtown - Avenue and Lawrence - and it's always faster to YYZ. From Eglington north, there a
30 NorthStarDC4M : I don't know why you'd consider that "midtown" but ok (to me Downtown Toronto= south of Bloor, Midtown Toronto= Bloor to Eglinton, Lawrence= Uptown).
31 AVLAirlineFreq : Bring back Meigs!
32 Brilondon : Why would you want to fly to Gary Ind. and then drive 3 hours to get to downtown Chicago. The one big selling point of Porter is that they fly to YTZ
33 Cubsrule : That's quite an exaggeration... it's almost always doable in 45 minutes now. While GYY wouldn't be a good idea for PD, let's not overplay our hand.
34 Brilondon : Yeah I know but my point is still valid since YYZ is about 45 minutes to an hour from downtown Toronto and YTZ is 10 minutes from downtown Toronto.
35 LongHauler : While their product may be "premium", look at how many "premium" carriers have survived over the years ... not many. Porter is selling time and conve
36 Pnwtraveler : That was sarcasm/tongue in cheek, I should have added a smiley. I think customs agents have an extra DNA chromosome that encourages a power trip :P.
37 Goaliemn : that was my first thought.. Meigs would be great for Porter..
38 Cubsrule : Just out of curiousity, how much runway would the Q400 need for a flight like CGX-YTZ?
39 Yyz717 : There is alot of downtown-to-downtown traffic. Keep in mind that BMO owns Harris Bank in Chicago, for example. MDW is also a good connector to the WS
40 Post contains links Brilondon : Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 39): Depends on your perspective. I live at Harbourfront. I consider Front Street to be mid-town. I walk to work at Yonge/Adelai
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