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Lower Deck Lavs On Airbus - Your Impressions?  
User currently onlineCF-CPI From Canada, joined Nov 2000, 1132 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 13746 times:

Airbus has an option to place several lavs in the lower deck, taking up cargo space, but freeing up space upstairs for more passenger seats. LH has opted 'for' on the A340-600 and I believe one of the holiday charter companies has them on the A330-200.

Ultimately, the economics of pax vs cargo will dictate this selection, but as a passenger, do you find the lower deck location to be an enhancement? I suppose it is for those who might normally sit where people are queuing up to 'go'.

21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineRdwootty From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 905 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 13734 times:

The Airtours airbuses have the loos on the lower floor and they are very nicely set out. However they need a crew member there so it does affect the crewing . Not sure if this is to stop the mile high club or not!

User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 2, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 13646 times:

It's par for the course for LH and their industry-leading lav wierdness. Some of their 744s lavs have windows, the A346s are on the cargo deck. It's all together odd. They are nice enough (LH A346), roomier than some other longhaulers (UA 777 comes to mind). Not that you're supposed to be going during turbulence, but on some flights, it can last hours, and so you have no choice, but the stairs can get a bit scary if you're going through some chop.


"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlineMotorHussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3334 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 13339 times:



Quoting Rdwootty (Reply 1):
However they need a crew member there so it does affect the crewing .

Well this would be a likely place for people to assemble their smuggled on liquids etc looking at it from a security POV.

MH



come visit the south pacific
User currently offlineTonystan From Ireland, joined Jan 2006, 1447 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 13000 times:



Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 3):
Well this would be a likely place for people to assemble their smuggled on liquids etc looking at it from a security POV.

Even if that were the case I am sure the assembly would take place inside the cubical and I doubt somehow the crew member is assigned to stand in there with you holding the bog roll! LOL!

You will find that it is a fire watch duty to ensure passengers obey the smoking regulations. However I find it hard that LH employ a crew member to remain down there for the entire duration of the flight. My airline does not have underfloor lavs but it does have lavatories away from the galley (down the back of the 747 for example or the mid cabin loos on the 767 and 777) and we maintain a 20 minute check of the lavs to ensure that no smoking has taken place and to check for notes etc...basically anything that could be a risk to safety or security. Some of the more proactive crew use the time to also restock and keep them generally tidy...sadly not all of the crew do this!!!!
Sadly it doesnt stop passengers from behaving oddly down there...I have been cruised, grabbed and once even pushed into the loos by both male and female passengers...usually pissed out of their heads!!!! Tis a dangerous place to be especially when the lights are out and can only be worse when its on a different level!!! LOL!

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 2):
Some of their 744s lavs have windows,

The BA ones have a First Class lav with a window, its cool! The window mists up when on the ground but when airborne it is clear!



My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
User currently offlineKochamLOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 301 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 12600 times:

Its a great idea! I flew on the a346 with LH and it was amazing. Not only is it cool to go to a lower deck (for a freak like me), but its also probably quieter for those sitting near lavs that could have possibly been located in front or behind them. It makes it more comfortable for the pax not to have to be seated right next to the lav and with the crowding of many people. Also, i can say for LH, the lavatories are very nice and large!!! Way to go!

User currently offlineJariarkko From Finland, joined Jun 2007, 20 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 12183 times:

From a passenger point of view this arrangement is great. There are several advantages: the facilities do not have to be next to anyone's seats, with all the service points in one place, your waiting time is less affected by random fluctuations in the individual session lengths  Smile the waiting room can have light even when the rest of the airplane is dark, queues do not form in the aisles, you can stretch your legs a bit by walking there, the waiting room is nice enough for to you chat with people, etc.

For the airline, they probably get by with a smaller number of facilities with this arrangement than otherwise. LH uses these on long-haul flights such as MUC-SFO, I wonder if they would be able to use the full payload space on those?

There's an adjoining crew room, I do not know what it is used for -- storage? rest? food preparation?

And no, there is no crew assigned to stand in this place all the time. Of course they check up on passengers from time to time, e.g., to tell people to not wait in the stairs.

I also do not believe this would be a good place for anyone to do anything bad, its very likely that there are other people in the waiting room or coming down the stairs at all times. Plus there is light.


User currently offlineOlympic472 From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 476 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 11938 times:

I've used the ones on LH's A346 on many flights. They work for me. The restrooms are larger, and without the curvature of the ceiling they are much more comfortable for me. The novelty factor alone is worth it.
The plane is so long that I do not think cargo is significantly affected by placing them down there.



Civil Aviation has a "Need for Speed"!
User currently offlineLuv2cattlecall From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1650 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 10362 times:
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Quoting Tonystan (Reply 4):

The BA ones have a First Class lav with a window, its cool! The window mists up when on the ground but when airborne it is clear!

What's the point of making it mist up on the ground?

I can't think of a situation when it's ok to use the lav on the ground...



When you have to breaststroke to your connecting flight...it's a crash!
User currently offlineAjs123uk From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 66 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 9938 times:



Quoting Luv2cattlecall (Reply 8):
can't think of a situation when it's ok to use the lav on the ground...

its perfectly fine to use the lavs on the ground.
well on BA it is and i thought it was for many other airlines aswell

oh and the window mists up on the ground when in use because people walking down the jetty might get a bit of a surprise otherwise!


User currently offlineFlyglobal From Germany, joined Mar 2008, 604 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week ago) and read 9773 times:

I agree with most of them:
Mostly I go business and therefore I can enjoy the LAV window there, but also I used the economy 3 times.

Clearly: The LH LAV'S in the lower A346 deck are probably the best LAV'S in economy you can get. There are 5 as I remember. They are clearly spacious for economy style, the window Business LAV is smaller, so that I already was using the economy once all the business WC's where occupied. The stairs are not scary, wider then the upper deck stairs in a 747.
There is a camera installed downstairs for checking.
Maximum 10 people allowed downstairs due to limited oxygen masks.
The FA's mainly check the 10 people max allowance there, as some use the spot to have extensive conversations. The crew rest is also there and some of the kitchen/ catering storage. There is an elevator (for goods) from there.

All in all a good solution when you don't need max Cargo. Please be reminded that the A346 is the longest passenger plane on earth so far.

Regards
Flyglobal


User currently offlineDALCE From Netherlands, joined Feb 2007, 1721 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week ago) and read 9689 times:

I also like the option LH uses on their 346. They are spacious, and especially very low on noise for the other pax on board the flight.

Cargowise it is not a big disaster, as there still is plenty of space available



flown: F50,F70,CR1,CR2,CR9,E75,143,AR8,AR1,733,735,736,73G,738,753,744,77W,319,320,321,333,AB6.
User currently offlineCuriousFlyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 702 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week ago) and read 9615 times:

One of my friends fell in those stairs and broke his nose, there was blood everywhere and the crew was quite scared. He was thus upgraded for the remaining of the flight, and sported a big plaster on his nose for quite a while.

User currently offlineAjs123uk From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 66 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week ago) and read 9566 times:



Quoting Ajs123uk (Reply 10):
oh and the window mists up on the ground when in use because people walking down the jetty might get a bit of a surprise otherwise!

Wrong!!
Sorry my mistake, due to jet lag!

The window is always misted up unless lav in use. You have to pull the window blind down on the ground to prevent people on the jetty getting an eyefull.

Sorry for the error,
Al

...and back to topic the idea of some lavs downstairs out of the way seems good to me


User currently offlineCPDC10-30 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2000, 4810 posts, RR: 23
Reply 14, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week ago) and read 9502 times:



Quoting Rdwootty (Reply 1):
However they need a crew member there so it does affect the crewing . Not sure if this is to stop the mile high club or not!

I believe the crew member is needed to ensure that the queues do not get so long that there are not enough oxygen masks for everyone waiting. If there was a depressurisation of the cabin, they may not have enough time to return up the stairs to their seats.

I find the under floor lav layout on the A330 to be excellent - allows for much better use of cabin space.


User currently offlinePellegrine From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2495 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 9233 times:



Quoting Tonystan (Reply 4):
Sadly it doesnt stop passengers from behaving oddly down there...I have been cruised, grabbed and once even pushed into the loos by both male and female passengers...usually pissed out of their heads!!!!

Cruised on an airplane? Imagine that!!

May I ask if you know what goes on in the handicapped lavatory in the middle of a L-H flight, when everyone else is asleep???  Wink



oh boy!!!
User currently offlineChuchoteur From France, joined Sep 2006, 774 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 8380 times:



Quoting Tonystan (Reply 4):
You will find that it is a fire watch duty to ensure passengers obey the smoking regulations. However I find it hard that LH employ a crew member to remain down there for the entire duration of the flight.

... not so bad in actual fact, as I believe that DLH ave also gone for the supplemental galley underfloor, as well as the crew rest... so you will have a crew member down there anyways... it's just a case of a quick peek round the door every so often...

but correct me if I'm wrong, not having seen the actual layout in a while...


User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 17, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 7768 times:



Quoting Flyglobal (Reply 11):
ow Business LAV is smaller, so that I already was using the economy once all the business WC's where occupied. The stairs are not scary, wider then the upper deck stairs in a 747.



Quoting CuriousFlyer (Reply 13):
One of my friends fell in those stairs and broke his nose, there was blood everywhere and the crew was quite scared. He was thus upgraded for the remaining of the flight, and sported a big plaster on his nose for quite a while.

See, I told you those stairs can be scary in turbulence! Even if they are wider than the 747 upper deck stairs, there is no reason you may have to use those during turbulence, whereas the lavs all being downstairs on the A346 LH mean that if turbulence lasts long enough, the stairs have to be negotiated.

Don't get me wrong, I like them, I'm just saying the stairs can get scary.

As for cargo, the A346 for LH (which I've read on here tends to carry a high density of cargo) may hit max payload before the large cargo bay fills on many routes, and so the space used by the lavs is not missed.



"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlineKochamLOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 301 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6467 times:

Yes....maybe those lavatories arent good for people with slow reflexes and the handicapped but there are other lavatories that can be used if your afraid of walking and falling on a few stairs.

User currently offlineDanfearn77 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2008, 1818 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6391 times:



Quoting Rdwootty (Reply 1):
The Airtours airbuses have the loos on the lower floor and they are very nicely set out

Yes i remember, i flew to the US with them in 2001 and they were downstairs. Was only young and i never knew what a/c it was. Since then ive always thought about it narrowed it down to the A330. I seem to remember a lot of space in the cabin, and to be honest i cant see Airtours having the need to carry much more cargo other than pax's luggage etc.



Eagles may soar high, but weasels dont get sucked into jet engines!
User currently offlineSandyb123 From UK - Scotland, joined Oct 2007, 1133 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5802 times:
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Quoting KochamLOT (Reply 18):
maybe those lavatories arent good for people with slow reflexes and the handicapped

Is there also a potential safety implication if there are ques of people waiting and there is bad turbulence or something else? Are there fold down seats or anything else down there that people can use if need be?

Also, if everyone is walking further to get to the toilets at the back doesn't this cause more cabin movement which is generally more disturbing?

Quoting Danfearn77 (Reply 19):
i cant see Airtours having the need to carry much more cargo other than pax's luggage

Is that right? I would have thought that if Airtours had the capacity and there was cargo going they would carry it? Not sure of how this works on the charters?

Sandyb123



Member of the mile high club
User currently offlineRobffm2 From Germany, joined Dec 2006, 1124 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5780 times:

I think it's time to show some pics and the actual seatplan for Lufthansa's three classes A346.
http://www.lufthansa.com/cdautils/mediapool/media_436055.pdf


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