CF-CPI From Canada, joined Nov 2000, 887 posts, RR: 0 Posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 12930 times:
Airbus has an option to place several lavs in the lower deck, taking up cargo space, but freeing up space upstairs for more passenger seats. LH has opted 'for' on the A340-600 and I believe one of the holiday charter companies has them on the A330-200.
Ultimately, the economics of pax vs cargo will dictate this selection, but as a passenger, do you find the lower deck location to be an enhancement? I suppose it is for those who might normally sit where people are queuing up to 'go'.
Rdwootty From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 900 posts, RR: 2 Reply 1, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 12918 times:
The Airtours airbuses have the loos on the lower floor and they are very nicely set out. However they need a crew member there so it does affect the crewing . Not sure if this is to stop the mile high club or not!
FlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15 Reply 2, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 12830 times:
It's par for the course for LH and their industry-leading lav wierdness. Some of their 744s lavs have windows, the A346s are on the cargo deck. It's all together odd. They are nice enough (LH A346), roomier than some other longhaulers (UA 777 comes to mind). Not that you're supposed to be going during turbulence, but on some flights, it can last hours, and so you have no choice, but the stairs can get a bit scary if you're going through some chop.
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
Tonystan From Ireland, joined Jan 2006, 1353 posts, RR: 2 Reply 4, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 12184 times:
Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 3): Well this would be a likely place for people to assemble their smuggled on liquids etc looking at it from a security POV.
Even if that were the case I am sure the assembly would take place inside the cubical and I doubt somehow the crew member is assigned to stand in there with you holding the bog roll! LOL!
You will find that it is a fire watch duty to ensure passengers obey the smoking regulations. However I find it hard that LH employ a crew member to remain down there for the entire duration of the flight. My airline does not have underfloor lavs but it does have lavatories away from the galley (down the back of the 747 for example or the mid cabin loos on the 767 and 777) and we maintain a 20 minute check of the lavs to ensure that no smoking has taken place and to check for notes etc...basically anything that could be a risk to safety or security. Some of the more proactive crew use the time to also restock and keep them generally tidy...sadly not all of the crew do this!!!!
Sadly it doesnt stop passengers from behaving oddly down there...I have been cruised, grabbed and once even pushed into the loos by both male and female passengers...usually pissed out of their heads!!!! Tis a dangerous place to be especially when the lights are out and can only be worse when its on a different level!!! LOL!
KochamLOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 283 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 11784 times:
Its a great idea! I flew on the a346 with LH and it was amazing. Not only is it cool to go to a lower deck (for a freak like me), but its also probably quieter for those sitting near lavs that could have possibly been located in front or behind them. It makes it more comfortable for the pax not to have to be seated right next to the lav and with the crowding of many people. Also, i can say for LH, the lavatories are very nice and large!!! Way to go!
Jariarkko From Finland, joined Jun 2007, 20 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 11367 times:
From a passenger point of view this arrangement is great. There are several advantages: the facilities do not have to be next to anyone's seats, with all the service points in one place, your waiting time is less affected by random fluctuations in the individual session lengths the waiting room can have light even when the rest of the airplane is dark, queues do not form in the aisles, you can stretch your legs a bit by walking there, the waiting room is nice enough for to you chat with people, etc.
For the airline, they probably get by with a smaller number of facilities with this arrangement than otherwise. LH uses these on long-haul flights such as MUC-SFO, I wonder if they would be able to use the full payload space on those?
There's an adjoining crew room, I do not know what it is used for -- storage? rest? food preparation?
And no, there is no crew assigned to stand in this place all the time. Of course they check up on passengers from time to time, e.g., to tell people to not wait in the stairs.
I also do not believe this would be a good place for anyone to do anything bad, its very likely that there are other people in the waiting room or coming down the stairs at all times. Plus there is light.
Olympic472 From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 422 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 11122 times:
I've used the ones on LH's A346 on many flights. They work for me. The restrooms are larger, and without the curvature of the ceiling they are much more comfortable for me. The novelty factor alone is worth it.
The plane is so long that I do not think cargo is significantly affected by placing them down there.
Flyglobal From Germany, joined Mar 2008, 541 posts, RR: 3 Reply 10, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 8957 times:
I agree with most of them:
Mostly I go business and therefore I can enjoy the LAV window there, but also I used the economy 3 times.
Clearly: The LH LAV'S in the lower A346 deck are probably the best LAV'S in economy you can get. There are 5 as I remember. They are clearly spacious for economy style, the window Business LAV is smaller, so that I already was using the economy once all the business WC's where occupied. The stairs are not scary, wider then the upper deck stairs in a 747.
There is a camera installed downstairs for checking.
Maximum 10 people allowed downstairs due to limited oxygen masks.
The FA's mainly check the 10 people max allowance there, as some use the spot to have extensive conversations. The crew rest is also there and some of the kitchen/ catering storage. There is an elevator (for goods) from there.
All in all a good solution when you don't need max Cargo. Please be reminded that the A346 is the longest passenger plane on earth so far.
CuriousFlyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 672 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 8799 times:
One of my friends fell in those stairs and broke his nose, there was blood everywhere and the crew was quite scared. He was thus upgraded for the remaining of the flight, and sported a big plaster on his nose for quite a while.
CPDC10-30 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2000, 4761 posts, RR: 25 Reply 14, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 8686 times:
Quoting Rdwootty (Reply 1): However they need a crew member there so it does affect the crewing . Not sure if this is to stop the mile high club or not!
I believe the crew member is needed to ensure that the queues do not get so long that there are not enough oxygen masks for everyone waiting. If there was a depressurisation of the cabin, they may not have enough time to return up the stairs to their seats.
I find the under floor lav layout on the A330 to be excellent - allows for much better use of cabin space.
Pellegrine From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2174 posts, RR: 8 Reply 15, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 8417 times:
Quoting Tonystan (Reply 4): Sadly it doesnt stop passengers from behaving oddly down there...I have been cruised, grabbed and once even pushed into the loos by both male and female passengers...usually pissed out of their heads!!!!
Cruised on an airplane? Imagine that!!
May I ask if you know what goes on in the handicapped lavatory in the middle of a L-H flight, when everyone else is asleep???
Chuchoteur From France, joined Sep 2006, 720 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 7564 times:
Quoting Tonystan (Reply 4): You will find that it is a fire watch duty to ensure passengers obey the smoking regulations. However I find it hard that LH employ a crew member to remain down there for the entire duration of the flight.
... not so bad in actual fact, as I believe that DLH ave also gone for the supplemental galley underfloor, as well as the crew rest... so you will have a crew member down there anyways... it's just a case of a quick peek round the door every so often...
but correct me if I'm wrong, not having seen the actual layout in a while...
FlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15 Reply 17, posted (5 years 3 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 6952 times:
Quoting Flyglobal (Reply 11): ow Business LAV is smaller, so that I already was using the economy once all the business WC's where occupied. The stairs are not scary, wider then the upper deck stairs in a 747.
Quoting CuriousFlyer (Reply 13): One of my friends fell in those stairs and broke his nose, there was blood everywhere and the crew was quite scared. He was thus upgraded for the remaining of the flight, and sported a big plaster on his nose for quite a while.
See, I told you those stairs can be scary in turbulence! Even if they are wider than the 747 upper deck stairs, there is no reason you may have to use those during turbulence, whereas the lavs all being downstairs on the A346 LH mean that if turbulence lasts long enough, the stairs have to be negotiated.
Don't get me wrong, I like them, I'm just saying the stairs can get scary.
As for cargo, the A346 for LH (which I've read on here tends to carry a high density of cargo) may hit max payload before the large cargo bay fills on many routes, and so the space used by the lavs is not missed.
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
Danfearn77 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2008, 1803 posts, RR: 9 Reply 19, posted (5 years 3 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 5575 times:
Quoting Rdwootty (Reply 1): The Airtours airbuses have the loos on the lower floor and they are very nicely set out
Yes i remember, i flew to the US with them in 2001 and they were downstairs. Was only young and i never knew what a/c it was. Since then ive always thought about it narrowed it down to the A330. I seem to remember a lot of space in the cabin, and to be honest i cant see Airtours having the need to carry much more cargo other than pax's luggage etc.
Eagles may soar high, but weasels dont get sucked into jet engines!
Sandyb123 From UK - Scotland, joined Oct 2007, 996 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (5 years 3 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4986 times:
Quoting KochamLOT (Reply 18): maybe those lavatories arent good for people with slow reflexes and the handicapped
Is there also a potential safety implication if there are ques of people waiting and there is bad turbulence or something else? Are there fold down seats or anything else down there that people can use if need be?
Also, if everyone is walking further to get to the toilets at the back doesn't this cause more cabin movement which is generally more disturbing?
Quoting Danfearn77 (Reply 19): i cant see Airtours having the need to carry much more cargo other than pax's luggage
Is that right? I would have thought that if Airtours had the capacity and there was cargo going they would carry it? Not sure of how this works on the charters?