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170 Pax Stop Departure of Air Berlin Flight  
User currently offlinePlairbus From Germany, joined Feb 2008, 311 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 15383 times:

Just read it on www.aero.de that Air Berlin in a only few weeks old 737-800 after trying to departure 2 times had to change the plane because 170 passengers start to sign Up that they are not going on board again for a third time to departure with the same plane. After 15 hours they get in other plane and 2 passengers cancel they vacation and did not even fly.
Air Berlin said it was only a light in the cockpit and that aircraft with so much technology sometimes shows defects in the cockpit that finaly are not true but after the Spanair crash the pilots of Air Berlin can not start with any alarm light in the cockpit.
Wow, so this are going to cost a lot of money to airlines if they start to do what passengers want. On the otherside if Air Berlin accept to change the palne perhaps there was something bigger, who knows?
But in the last weeks It is the third time passengers forced airlines to change a plane.

66 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineUK_Dispatcher From United Arab Emirates, joined Dec 2001, 2595 posts, RR: 30
Reply 1, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 15375 times:

It is only ignorance on the part of the passengers, but then they do not have that extra bit of knowledge and understanding that we have as professionals and/or enthusiasts. I can understand to an extent their concerns but would personally have not signed the 'petition'.

User currently offlinePlairbus From Germany, joined Feb 2008, 311 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 15290 times:

http://www.focus.de/reisen/fliegen/a...zwingen-ersatz-jet_aid_333442.html

This is the link in german.


User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9330 posts, RR: 29
Reply 3, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 15296 times:

Hysteric idiots. The media is at fault here as well with irresponsible reporting of accidents.

I would not be surprised if BLOED has something about an OLD aircraft in bold letters on tomorrows issue.

These morons even get compensation for the 15 hour delay they caused themselves. This is getting kind of ridiculous. It can happen that an aircraft returns twice to the stand and that is a matter of caution and safety. Happened to me this year with BA at LHR, they cancelled the flight then but not for tech reasons but because it was too late and we would have hit the curfew in Frankfurt. I would have preferred a third try over a night in the shitty LHR Ibis any time.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlinePlairbus From Germany, joined Feb 2008, 311 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 15276 times:

But I do not know what i would do if the same plane try to start 2 times and the pilots 2 times stop the departure... It is a dificult situation.

User currently offlinePlairbus From Germany, joined Feb 2008, 311 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 15276 times:

I think it is important that the media tell us this things, if not them who?

User currently offlineSpeedbird741 From Portugal, joined Aug 2008, 654 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 15162 times:



Quoting PanHAM (Reply 3):
Hysteric idiots

Listen you have to understand that not every one know as much as the people who are on this website....to you or to me it is nothing big and doesn't really scare us because we know very well that any accident is more expensive then keeping planes flying safe and so no airline is going to put millions and millions at stake but for the general public who don't have that knowledge it is very well understandable that people don't feel safe after this especially one month after the Spanair crash...so really you can't have such an in comprehensive opinion on this subject

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 3):
The media is at fault here as well with irresponsible reporting of accidents.

And you are very correct here.....and there are many examples to prove this...just take Qantas....they couldn't do a go around without all the media falling on their backs....that is ridiculous.



Speedbird741



Boa noite Faro, Air Portugal 257 climbing flight level 340
User currently offlineRobffm2 From Germany, joined Dec 2006, 1117 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 15162 times:



Quoting PanHAM (Reply 3):
These morons even get compensation for the 15 hour delay they caused themselves. This is getting kind of ridiculous.

This is not ridiculous. The flight was basically delayed because the plane had a malfunction.
Whether this was only on the dashboard or not does not really matter.


User currently offlineUK_Dispatcher From United Arab Emirates, joined Dec 2001, 2595 posts, RR: 30
Reply 8, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 15145 times:

AB should have shifted the aircraft to the next gate, used it for another flight and emphasised to the original passengers 12 hours later that the aircraft had flown another 4 sectors!

Yes, I am evil  Wink


User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9330 posts, RR: 29
Reply 9, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 15022 times:



Quoting Speedbird741 (Reply 6):
Listen you have to understand that not every one know as

I do understand that, I still call them hysteric idiots. One of the reasons BTW why I never fly on charters, i do not want to be in the same aircraft with people like that.



Quoting Robffm2 (Reply 7):
This is not ridiculous. The flight was basically delayed because the plane

It is ridiculous because a small delay became a 15 hour delay for the simple reasons that the passengers forced the airline to ferry another a/c to NUE. the normal case would have been to operate the flight after the malfunction was fixed and leave it to the passengers to take the flight or see how they get to FAO.

Quoting UK_Dispatcher (Reply 8):
AB should have shifted the aircraft to the next gate, used it for another flight and emphasised to the original passengers 12 hours later that the aircraft had flown another 4 sectors

They probably did that and you are not evil but a normal thinking person.

the media should think about the words they use and try something less dramatic. . The words "failed take off attempt" or - in Gernan "missglueckter Startversuch" should not be used when an aircraft simply rolls back to the stand. The german words, if understood correctly, simply mean that the aircraft is in pieces somewhere besides or behind the runway.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineSpeedbird741 From Portugal, joined Aug 2008, 654 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 14925 times:



Quoting PanHAM (Reply 9):
i do not want to be in the same aircraft with people like that.

I don't fly charters either but it's not because of anything but the level of comfort and to have better and more enjoyable travel experience....and trust me when i say a lot of very smart, Wise and nice people are humble enough to fly charter and don't mind being in planes with "people like that".....so don't play that superiorism and elitism act please....



Back on topic....do you all think it really was a cockpit light ?



Speedbird741



Boa noite Faro, Air Portugal 257 climbing flight level 340
User currently offlineHarrisAir From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 59 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 14844 times:

http://www.rp-online.de/public/artic...iere-erzwingen-neues-Flugzeug.html


This article mentions that the airplane first returned to the gate because of a warning light in the cockpit, and returned again after repairs because a flight attendant became sick.

harris


User currently offlineGT4EZY From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2007, 1783 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 14676 times:

Some very weird and frankly ill informed views on here..........and that is just about charter airlines.

To the topic in hand. I completely understand pax fears when the aircraft has to go back to stand twice, it is only understandable. However, pax should not be able to hold the airline to ransom. If mx, flight crew, cabin crew (depending on the problem) feel that it is safe to depart then the passengers should be given the option to go or to wait for another flight.

There are so many misconceptions about air travel and generally people who don't understand. I guess that is why the flight crew get so highly paid and the reason why cabin crew are onboard for passenger safety. People can't be expected to understand it all but IMO in doesn't help if the airline feeds passengers irrational thoughts/actions.



Proud to fly from Manchester!
User currently offlineSpeedbird741 From Portugal, joined Aug 2008, 654 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 14525 times:



Quoting GT4EZY (Reply 12):
There are so many misconceptions about air travel and generally people who don't understand. I guess that is why the flight crew get so highly paid and the reason why cabin crew are onboard for passenger safety. People can't be expected to understand it all but IMO in doesn't help if the airline feeds passengers irrational thoughts/actions

Spot on....it truly is pouring gasoline into an already rather big fire...



Speedbird741



Boa noite Faro, Air Portugal 257 climbing flight level 340
User currently offlinePeh From Australia, joined Nov 2006, 340 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 14443 times:



Quoting Plairbus (Reply 5):
I think it is important that the media tell us this things, if not them who?

Amen to that. I'm on a 12 month business assignment in China. A sensationalist free media aint perfect but it's better than the alternative.



Flown: ATR72, DASH 8, 737, 747, 767, 777, A300, A320, A321, A330, A340, MD80
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9330 posts, RR: 29
Reply 15, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 14208 times:

I don't want to sound elitist or whatever, but reading the news in German and hearing that on radio as well I could imagine what had happened there. Two Ladies agitating and fearmongering the rest of the passengers against the airline, just because a crew did their job.

If people have fear of flying they should stay away from airports. Simple as that. What really pisses me off is that they get compensation for a delay they have caused, at least for the majority of the 15 hours.

AB is not a fly by nite and they had really embarassed spokes people on tha news radio. They have handled the case well, what choice do they have.

Quoting Peh (Reply 14):
Amen to that. I'm on a 12 month business assignment in China. A sensationalist free media aint perfect but it's better than the alternative

which does not keep the Chinese from starting air rage as well, i remember a recebt date when this happened.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlinePlairbus From Germany, joined Feb 2008, 311 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 14125 times:

I can not understand most of you guys, I mean if I was on this plane and two times the same aircraft for some reason stop the departure I would alos think that something is wrong with the plane and would prefer an other one... I think that is normal! And yes the crew did they job, and because it was not safe to fly they stop so I think in thyis case people are right!

User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9330 posts, RR: 29
Reply 17, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 13938 times:

Whoever elected not to go on that flight was free to go, agreed.

So far s good. Now, 2 ladies (at least that was said on the radio) agitated and collected signatures and demanded that AB send a substitute aircraft. That is clear on the edge, or rather is compulsion (Noetigung) and compulsion ,at least in Germany, is a criminal act.

think 2 steps further and we have that almost every day across Germany, it is a common thing that aircraft roll back to the stand to fix some minor things.

If an aircraft is not airworthy it does not fly, if it is, it does. The system is proven and if people don't trust it, there is an easy way out for them, take the bus.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineDambuster From Switzerland, joined Nov 2006, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 13441 times:



Quoting Plairbus (Reply 16):

Totally agree with you. Even if you are a professional/enthusiast, you might not be able to know what's really going on. Most of the times they just say there's a technical problem but fail to mention its nature... I'd have definitely signed as well and the pax made the right choice. Very safe and wise decision.
Whenever a plane turns back to gates from the taxiways because of a problem especially a warning light, it would be preferable to have a good look at it and fix it properly in the hangars than messing with it in half an hour with full of impatient passengers on board. They'd prefer that too... Those who have brains of course...


User currently offlineSpeedbird741 From Portugal, joined Aug 2008, 654 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 13222 times:



Quoting PanHAM (Reply 15):
Two Ladies agitating and fearmongering the rest of the passengers against the airline,

Well there i really get you  Wink....but still i have seen some pretty nasty stuff like that on flag carriers like tap and even KLM



and just out of curiosity....like 4 years ago i boarded a TP a340 to Luanda, we boarded at about 10 pm if i am not mistaken and all sat there having our drinks and preparing for the flight...about an hour and a half passed and the captain announced we could not take off because of an unspecified, very very minor, technical problem but by regulation (EU i think) you couldn't take off with this warning/error, i got up picked up my mother's and my 2 brother's luggage and just stood by the door chatting to the flight attendant, i could see about 5 people inside that cockpit, 3 of them ground maintenance and they all seemed very busy, about 45 minutes passed and the doors remained closed, the flight attendant didn't know what was going on, we were a 100% pax load just by the way, after all this the pilot announced...ok every body please return to your seats we are going to Luanda....about an hour had passed and believe it or not we hadn't left the ramp....after that time the pilot said we couldn't leave because EU doesn't authorize post 1 am departures and we are going to get a special clearance, etc, etc, etc......shortly after "ladies and gentlemen we are all terribly sorry but we are not going to be able to leave tonight....it was just about 2 am when i got off the plane.....we got back into the terminal, where they announced we would be leaving the next day and we would all be getting a paid stay at a 5 star hotel and they would refund us with half our return ticked....as a tap spokesperson was announcing this an Angolan started talking very loud and clearly, to a point that the spokesperson stopped the announcement, to his "supposed lawyer" saying: "i am not going to admit and accept that these people put my life in danger by putting me in a unfunctioning plane and i am going to sue them for every penny they are worth and after started saying he was willing to gather signatures of people who wanted to join him, about 3 people signed the paper his lawyer brought to the hotel the next morning.....after all this we left the next day at 3 pm on the same plane...CS-TOA



This truly showed some unprofessionalism by the airline, but i am glad to say that today TP is a much much better airline at least from my experience...and this is not because of patriotism because honestly although i really really like TP my true passion lies with British airways....



this may sound like a trip report but hey just telling my story of a somewhat similar experience



Speedbird741



Boa noite Faro, Air Portugal 257 climbing flight level 340
User currently offlineLHRspotter From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2006, 182 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 13187 times:



Quoting GT4EZY (Reply 12):
Some very weird and frankly ill informed views on here..........and that is just about charter airlines

I can't understand it either. Only yesterday there was a thread full of praise for Bruce Dickinson and his employers Astraeus for getting stranded XL passengers home.
I would fly a charter carrier any day as long as it gets me where I want to go. And genuinely don't believe that the other passengers on the flight will be "people like that".


User currently offlineAFGMEL From Australia, joined Jul 2007, 744 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 11152 times:

A similar thing happened with our MH 777 flight. They had two attempts (taking about 5 hours) to fix the aircraft and then eventually we cancelled and left the next day. I am happy to get on an aircraft because I am fairly certain that everything works or we don't leave.

Having said that though, there is a tone on Airliners that infers that pax are a herd of animals that have no rights. Personally I don't like the human race in general, but I at least ascribe rights to them. Just because you enter an airport does not mean you leave your rights under the law at the entrance to the building. If they don't want to get on the aircraft, they have every right not to - get this - even if they are misinformed!



B 727-44/200 732/3/4/8/9 767-3 742/3/4, 772/3, A319/20/21 332/333 342/3 , DC3/4/10, F28/50/100, ATR72
User currently offlineOldtimer From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 191 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 11097 times:

You can see by the views on here who are airline professionals and who are either too young to know what they are talking about, or just have no knowledge whatsoever on how an airline works.
Speedbird741, EU does not say an aircraft cannot go with a light on, JAR's, Air Regs, and MEL state what you can and cannot go with.
EU does not state you cannot fly after a certain time, that is up to the local authority or goverment of the country you are in.

Dambuster. Most of the time its no good telling passengers what the fault is, other than a tech. problem, because most would not know, probably including you, what the problem is. Its also no good expecting engineering to say how long a problem is going to take, its like saying how long is a piece of string. A simple wheel change can go terribly wrong and instead of say 30 minutes, you are still trying to remove the wheel because a securing nut has frozen and 3 hours has passed.

I would not have signed this silly petition and would have done all in my power to talk people out of it and happily gone on my holiday

Oldtimer



Oldtimer, I should have known better!
User currently offlineACDC8 From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 7642 posts, RR: 35
Reply 23, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 10936 times:

If AB was smart, they would have just kicked everyone off the plane, towed it to another gate and re-boarded an hour later telling everyone that this airlplane is a different one. I mean, seriously, Joe Public can't tell the difference between an A320 and a B737 so they'll never know it was the same aircraft ....  Smile

Quoting Plairbus (Reply 5):
I think it is important that the media tell us this things, if not them who?

The problem is that they don't tell us, they try to manipulate facts and make non-events seem bigger then they actually are. And the sad thing is, that the majority of the people actually believe most of the rubbish called "news" and base their actions/opinions on it without even thinking about it.



A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
User currently offlineSpeedbird741 From Portugal, joined Aug 2008, 654 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 10940 times:



Quoting Oldtimer (Reply 22):
You can see by the views on here who are airline professionals and who are either too young to know what they are talking about, or just have no knowledge whatsoever on how an airline works.
Speedbird741, EU does not say an aircraft cannot go with a light on, JAR's, Air Regs, and MEL state what you can and cannot go with.
EU does not state you cannot fly after a certain time, that is up to the local authority or goverment of the country you are in.

Dambuster. Most of the time its no good telling passengers what the fault is, other than a tech. problem, because most would not know, probably including you, what the problem is. Its also no good expecting engineering to say how long a problem is going to take, its like saying how long is a piece of string. A simple wheel change can go terribly wrong and instead of say 30 minutes, you are still trying to remove the wheel because a securing nut has frozen and 3 hours has passed.

I would not have signed this silly petition and would have done all in my power to talk people out of it and happily gone on my holiday

Oldtimer

Well you basically told me nothing i did not know besides the fact that i am young and don't know as much as you and this is all true because i am only 17 who for 2 years have been learning and learning every day about how this bussiness works..so why don't you instead of being arrogant and unkind tell me how things work or have you known it all since the beggining ? because if you did tell me.....i just passed on what the crew told me, i don't think i afirmed it was or was not true...and just as a reminder it was 4 years ago.....really i bet there is someone it this website willing to accept that some here know less than others and have to learn and if you think your job is not to teach me which it isn't at all just don't answer, let some one else kind enough answer and say that what they told us is wrong and only told us that to keep us all calm.



And for the record we did not sign the



Boa noite Faro, Air Portugal 257 climbing flight level 340
25 DavidByrne : Wow! Talk about elitism . . . !
26 Airtechy : ...perhaps the passengers had in the back of their mind the recent crash in Madrid where the plane returned to the gate, a "minor' fix was made, and t
27 Lehovec : No, it's not evil at all. I couldn't agree with you more. To be honest, I think pax these day are getting silly. So many times I witnessed when pax t
28 Plairbus : I think if AB cancel the flight and the pilot stops 2 times the "take off" than there was a real o bigger problem, why he just start ???
29 Bps3458 : I think it is each passenger's right not to get back on an air craft that returns to the gate because of a technical fault but the passengers should n
30 Deguoren : Other German yellow press ("Abendzeitung") reports the passengers even noted the license plate of the aircraft, so that they can identify the faulty
31 SKAirbus : If the passengers on the Spanair flight had done the same thing then maybe their lives would have been saved... I don't think it's ignorance.. why sho
32 PanHAM : The second return to the gate was caused by an ill f/a. we can be sure that the pilot explained that. call me elitist or whatever you want. I prefer n
33 Flybyguy : I wonder how many of those same passengers would have gone to work knowing that the brakes in their car are worn out or ride bicycles in automobile tr
34 Amciver : Would this make a good scenario for an a.net poll?
35 CasualObserver : Then surely - it is their responsibility to enlighten the passenger/customer - turkeys wouldn't volunteer for xmas would they? I wouldn't get on a bu
36 SKAirbus : There's no need to get all sarcastic.. Unfortuantely the Madrid disaster could have been averted... passengers after returning to the gate were deman
37 CrimsonNL : What a nonsense, if your car refuses to start twice but it does the 3rd time, then are you going to your car dealer to demand another car? Sure those
38 SKAirbus : Well a plane is much more complicated and if something goes wrong at 35,000 ft then you are in many cases screwed....
39 PanHAM : well, I think there is. the comparison with the Bus is completely off simply because riding a bus is far more dangerous than taking a plane. Particul
40 WILCO737 : Airplanes as well. That's why we have the so called MEL (minimum equipment list), deactivated thrust reverser, one air condition pack may be inop etc
41 ACDC8 : Actually, no we don't ... we grab another bus and the defective bus stays in the yard. Just like an aircraft, we have policies/rules in place on what
42 Oldtimer : I was correcting your views that it was EU rules, not being at all arrogant. I repeat, most people would not understand what the defect was, a lot of
43 HAWK21M : How do Pax decide instead of the Maintenance folks on the servicibility of an Aircraft is Amusing regds MEL
44 PanHAM : I know that, WILCO, but you are not allowed to fly without items on the MEL, bus operators just do that. In Canada, yes. May be even most bus operato
45 CrimsonNL : The news here says the plane had 2 rejected/aborted take-offs, speaking of exaggerating
46 Davehammer : And who is to say that 'these sort of people' wouldn't ever fly on a legacy carrier? Any idiot is a threat to safety on an aircraft and being able to
47 Wukka : Just an anecdote for this thread: Had a scheduled 5:50am departure out of SRQ where we got on and off the plane 3 times until 11-something am. Each ti
48 Tootallsd : I think the better analogy is that if you started your car twice and the check brakes light refused to go out, would you drive normally expecting you
49 PanHAM : you have a mix of passengers on a legacy flights which you don't have on charter flights. The chance that the a/c is full of one time a year flyers i
50 Wukka : You have no idea how many times I've said that. When it comes to vacation travel, just get me there. If I make it back, it's gravy!
51 Speedbird741 : Well then sir i thank you very much....i know i don't even have 10% of the knowlege you have and i paid to be a part of this forum precisely to learn
52 GT4EZY : Absolute utter and misinformed rubbish. Perhaps if you were to say that you get a mix of passengers who travel charter but not legacy scheduled then
53 Toulouse : Firstly, I do agree there is a lot of hysteria at the moment, pax should have just continued, but who knows... and pax do have rights. Have you ever t
54 PanHAM : Listen, you can wite me a book with a million examples if you want. What I am reflecting from the beginning is that typical German "fully comprehensi
55 LoungeLover : Bottom line is: we here all fly regularly or know a little bit about what goes on up front. But - given that the recent weeks have been quite dramatic
56 ACDC8 : Just as there are black sheep in the aviation industry, not saying that AB is, but there are some.
57 Woody71 : I guarantee you that if a plane had crashed recently for a similar problem you would have had an influx of people not wanting to get on that plane. S
58 PanHAM : can you say which airlines in Germany or Western Europe you mean?
59 ACDC8 : Can you tell me which German bus companies drive with faulty brakes? And if a German bus has to go through TUV every 6 months, they can't be that bad
60 PanHAM : they have to unergo TUV inspection , however it happens regularly that buses unfit to go on the roads are found on random inspections or are involved
61 ACDC8 : No industry and no country in the world is safe from black sheep. Which is also why the LBA formed a black list shortly after the Birginair crash in
62 SKAirbus : Why are we concentrating so much on busses??? Surely a passenger that feels unsafe and wants to leave an aircraft should be allowed to do so without p
63 ACDC8 : Unfair (at least in my opinion) comparison by one of the other posters. This is my take on it. Personally, if someone feels they would like to leave
64 SKAirbus : Yes this could be true but before pushback there were a number of passengers on the Spanair flight who wanted to disembark but were not allowed... al
65 ACDC8 : That may very well be, but the Spanair accident is also something that happens so rarely (going back to the gate for tech reasons and then crashing o
66 Lehovec : I personally haven't, no. But I had that situation 2 as crew. Once pax wanted to get off because there was a mistake during boarding and there was a
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Photos Of New Air Berlin Livery posted Tue Jan 15 2008 04:37:55 by Lindy Field
Air Berlin Pulls Out Of Belfast posted Thu Aug 30 2007 13:26:23 by OA260
Air Berlin Use Of 737s And A320s posted Fri Aug 10 2007 20:32:17 by Columba