Cumulus From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 1402 posts, RR: 1 Posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 4397 times:
I was minding my own business earlier, sat on the sofa reading. I live in a two floor place where I have French Windows with views out over the Sea on the second floor.
I often hear a lot of activity in the air above with traffic into SOU and BOU, but earlier I heard a Helicopter getting louder and louder.
The all of a sudden it was hovering at about 30ft RIGHT OUTSIDE MY FRENCH WINDOWS!
I live right in the centre of town, and not normally something you'd expect.
The Neighbours came running out, some crying as they thought it was about to crash.
It was a Air Ambulance, and was positioning to land in the Bus Station next door as some poor old Chap had taking a major heart attack in one of the shops.
I don't know much about Helicopters, except by the laws of basic Physics when you start one it should screw itself into the ground (!), but really was a stunning display of skill by the Pilot who gently swung this thing through the chimney pots, and into the Bus Station next door where he landed beautifully next door to a number 9 Double Decker!!
Wasn't quick enough to catch him hovering, but got this of his departure. I think the Copper waving is a nice touch!!
I hear the Patient is stable, which is good.
What Goes Up Must Come Down, Hopefully In One Piece!
NWADC9 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4857 posts, RR: 10 Reply 1, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 4369 times:
Why not just use an ambulance? There's a big riff going on here about usage of air ambulances for jobs that an ambulance can easily do, mainly regarding saving fuel and congested skies.
Flying an aeroplane with only a single propeller to keep you in the air. Can you imagine that? -Capt. Picard
FN1001 From Moldova, joined Sep 2008, 213 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 4307 times:
Quoting NWADC9 (Reply 1): Why not just use an ambulance?
Because in Europe you do not find on all ambulances a doctor (MD). For a heart attack the doctor is mandatory, so he has to come to the site by car or, if not available by car, by helicopter.
The cost is covered by the health insurace.
Cumulus From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 1402 posts, RR: 1 Reply 3, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 4301 times:
Quoting NWADC9 (Reply 1): Why not just use an ambulance? There's a big riff going on here about usage of air ambulances for jobs that an ambulance can easily do, mainly regarding saving fuel and congested skies.
Funny you should say that, as the old man was eventually taken away in a conventional Ambulance, plus he was sat upright and concious.
I did make me wonder..........
What Goes Up Must Come Down, Hopefully In One Piece!
Cumulus From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 1402 posts, RR: 1 Reply 4, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 4288 times:
Quoting FN1001 (Reply 2): The cost is covered by the health insurace.
Not in the U.K!! In the case of the Air Ambulance Service (as with the Lifeboats) it is all funded by private donations and no Government subsidy, which without wishing to get Political, is all wrong.
What Goes Up Must Come Down, Hopefully In One Piece!
Signol From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2007, 2948 posts, RR: 7 Reply 5, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 4281 times:
Quoting FN1001 (Reply 2): Because in Europe you do not find on all ambulances a doctor (MD).
Perhaps not in Germany, but in the UK all ambulances are staffed with fully qualified paramedics (2 of my friends are paramedics), fully equipped with defibulation equipment etc.
In this case, they may have used the air ambulance as ground ambulances may have been too far away at the time, there was known congestion between the accident site and the hospital, or simply that the helicopter could get the patient to A&E much quicker than a ground ambulance, even running on blues.
FN1001 From Moldova, joined Sep 2008, 213 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 4258 times:
In Germany the ambulances have two "fully qualified" paramedics too, but there are things paramedics are not allowed to do, so they have to be assisted by a doctor.
Haggis79 From Germany, joined Jun 2006, 1096 posts, RR: 1 Reply 9, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 4232 times:
Quoting Signol (Reply 5): Perhaps not in Germany, but in the UK all ambulances are staffed with fully qualified paramedics (2 of my friends are paramedics), fully equipped with defibulation equipment etc.
we certainly do have qualified paramedics on all ambulances. However, certain circumstances mandate the involvement of an MD trained in emergency medicine in Germany (e.g. all circumstances in which prescription medication has to be applied). The MD usually comes to the scene in a small extra car similar to a police car or, especially in emergencies somewhere out in the country, by helicopter.
Khobar From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2379 posts, RR: 4 Reply 10, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 4159 times:
Quoting NWADC9 (Reply 1): Why not just use an ambulance? There's a big riff going on here about usage of air ambulances for jobs that an ambulance can easily do, mainly regarding saving fuel and congested skies.
We have limited opportunity to open our windows due to the seasons. You can judge the weather by how often the police helicopters disturb us.
One particular morning a police helicopter woke us up at 2:00 A.M. By 2:30 A.M. We still couldn't get back to sleep, so I grabbed the binoculars and took a look out to see whose helicopter was causing the problem (Mesa Police). I then called in to ask why was this helicopter flying round and round in circles over my house.
"We received a 911 hangup."
I asked why they had not simply dispatched a patrol car from their station a mere five minutes away?
The helicopter was gone within a few minutes after that.
Moo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 3596 posts, RR: 4 Reply 11, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 4131 times:
Quoting Cumulus (Reply 7): Not being negative here, but in my town we have a brand new £150 million pound hostpital which is 5 minutes by road from where he fell ill!
The local hospital may not have been in a position to actually render aid - not all hospitals offer all services, yours might not have had a cardiac specialist unit, while one further away would have. They would have used the air ambulance to get him to the best option - the one further away.
Quoting Khobar (Reply 10): I asked why they had not simply dispatched a patrol car from their station a mere five minutes away?
Cumulus From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 1402 posts, RR: 1 Reply 12, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 3930 times:
Quoting Moo (Reply 11): The local hospital may not have been in a position to actually render aid - not all hospitals offer all services, yours might not have had a cardiac specialist unit, while one further away would have.
I totally agree, but I know for a fact it has one of the best Cardiac Units in the area, my Dad went there for a Quadruple By-Pass. Moreso, this old Fella who keeled over definately had a heart attack.
It's a mystery, unless of course the Helicopter just happened to be in the area.......!
What Goes Up Must Come Down, Hopefully In One Piece!
JER757 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 350 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 3810 times:
Quoting Signol (Reply 5): Perhaps not in Germany, but in the UK all ambulances are staffed with fully qualified paramedics
This thread is going slightly off topic, but what the hell... here we go!
Ambulances in the UK do not have two Paramedics on board. Most ambulances have one Paramedic and an Emergency Medical Technician (EMT). A paramedic is basically an EMT with substantial extra qualifications.
Some ambulances carry two EMTs and these are used for minor cases. Doctors are always on standby at hospitals to go out to incidents where they are required.
The reason the chopper was sent in this case was probably because it had a Dr on board and could therefore administer a higher level of treatment on the scene (some air ambulances always carry doctors, HEMS in London for example, others carry paramedics). The patient was carried back in the land ambulance as this is the most efficient way to transport patients over distances less than 60 miles (journeys of approx 1 hour).
Medicine and aviation... pretty much describes my life!
FrmrCAPCADET From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1501 posts, RR: 1 Reply 14, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 3776 times:
There is a serious overuse of heliopters for traffic control, ambulence, etc. On the other hand there are times - in our floods last November, we got most of the available helicopers from San Francisco to Seattle - , AF, Army, police - hundreds of people were on their roofs or second stories 6 hours before the Weather Service predicted a flood. This is probably one of those things which needs some sophisticated computer scheduling to optimise this important function of aviationl
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
ChiGB1973 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1605 posts, RR: 1 Reply 16, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 3443 times:
Quoting FN1001 (Reply 2): For a heart attack the doctor is mandatory, so he has to come to the site by car or, if not available by car, by helicopter
A doctor is not mandatory in the pre-hospital setting here in the states. There is nothing a physician can do that I cannot do with the equipment we have. You could add a few things, maybe "clot busting" medications, but what is needed is the cath lab and/or surgical suite. A physician in the pre-hospital setting is generally a wasted resource. Not to take away from MDs, but there are very, very few cases that require a physician in the field. In those few cases, you must make due or the MD can be flown in or brought by police.
The purpose of the helo is rapid treatment/transport to an acute care facility with the capability to treat the problem; cath lab/surgury for the heart patient, stroke center (neurology/neurosurgeon) for the neuro deficits and a trauma center for the traumas. Just because a facility has the capability, the staff may have to be called in or may be busy on other cases that require diversion to a facility with the immediate capability. The hospital within 5 minutes by ground may not have the immediate capability to handle this patient.
Down here, hospitals get taxed and must go on diversion status. Its generally limited to trauma and neuro cases, but I assume cardiology services could be diverted also. In this area, there are many cardiologists, however neurosurgeons and trauma services are generally limited.
The closest level 1 or 2 trauma center and/or cath lab from our base is 60 nm. It makes the helo a vital part of EMS in this area. It's an awesome job.
We frequently surprise people by landing in yards, the road, football fields or wherever the call may take us. It attracts a crowd if near a population base.
Cumulus From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 1402 posts, RR: 1 Reply 17, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 3256 times:
Quoting ChiGB1973 (Reply 16): We frequently surprise people by landing in yards, the road, football fields or wherever the call may take us. It attracts a crowd if near a population base.
With that landing in the Bus Station as above, how do the regs change for a night landing?
What Goes Up Must Come Down, Hopefully In One Piece!
ThePRGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 19, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week ago) and read 2284 times:
Quoting FN1001 (Reply 2): Because in Europe you do not find on all ambulances a doctor (MD). For a heart attack the doctor is mandatory, so he has to come to the site by car or, if not available by car, by helicopter.
The cost is covered by the health insurace.
Or as it is commonly known outside of Germany, France, Italy, Spain, USA et al - NHS
Planesarecool From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 4088 posts, RR: 13 Reply 21, posted (4 years 8 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2106 times:
The Air Ambulance would be quicker for a lot of places in rural Britain. I know that the nearest hospital to me is around 25 minutes drive away, whereas the nearest Air Ambulance is based just a few fields away. If something as serious as a heart attack was to happen to somebody in my village, the air ambulance would probably be the only real option.
ChiGB1973 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1605 posts, RR: 1 Reply 22, posted (4 years 8 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2104 times:
Quoting Cumulus (Reply 17): With that landing in the Bus Station as above, how do the regs change for a night landing?
We get in to some tight spaces during the day. There have been several that the pilots said they will not use at night. It's pilot's discretion. We have been on short final for a landing zone and the pilot had the fire department change LZs. He also uses the paramedic's and nurse's suggestions. If we do not feel comfortable, he will go-around and we'll find someplace else.
It's hard to tell on that picture, but it doesn't look like a place our pilots would go at night. Looks pretty tight.
GDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 12707 posts, RR: 80 Reply 23, posted (4 years 8 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2038 times:
Not a EMS chopper, but in August last year, the Met Police's new helicopter(s) spent most of a day right above me.
It was like the opening scene with Martin Sheen in the hotel room, from Apocalypse Now!
The LHR 'Climate Camp' demo was coming to it's end, with all the threats they had implied, so a major police presence was in my area.
(I went out later to take a look, and yes, you could smell some of the demonstrators!)
Holidaycharter From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 194 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (4 years 8 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1987 times:
I used to see that chopper all the time when it was in service with Dorset and Somerset still bearing the same reg G-NAAB nice sounding chopper they used to land that in some tricky old spots
Sprout5199 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1779 posts, RR: 2 Reply 25, posted (4 years 8 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 1955 times:
Quoting Cumulus (Reply 4): Not in the U.K!! In the case of the Air Ambulance Service (as with the Lifeboats) it is all funded by private donations and no Government subsidy, which without wishing to get Political, is all wrong.
Here in Palm Beach County, we have the "Health Care District" which is its own taxing authority. It pays for among other things, the use of Trauma Hawk. We have two S-76s and they land just about anywhere the rotors fit. They are manned by two Flight Nurses who specialize in trauma care. They mainly fly to the two trauma centers here in the county, but have in the past flown burn victims from near by counties to the burn center in Miami.
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