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Thomas Cook 767 - 8 Across In Coach?!  
User currently offlineSSTsomeday From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 1276 posts, RR: 1
Posted (6 years 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 45012 times:

Hello Guys and Gals:

I was just looking at a photo posted by a fellow A-netter, of a Thomas Cook 767 interior. I could not see the whole cross section of the coach cabin, but I did notice that there were 4 seats in the middle section. A quick check on Thomas Cook's website confirmed that they seat 8 across in coach on their 767s. (Thomas Cook does not seem to be in the SeatGuru radar...)

I admit I am not as much in the loop as many of you here, but I had not heard of this being done in a 767 before.

I have seen threads with lots of opinions about some airlines (KL, EK) going to 10 across on their 777s, and there was a lot of chatter about how cramped that might be, or if extra leg room eases that configuration. But I have never heard of this 767 added seat until now.

Logic would dictate, from a ratio and comfort standpoint, that it's more challenging to add one seat to a row of 7, than it is to add one more seat to a row of nine, as in the case of the 777. I believe I went to Hawaii once on Sun Country, in a DC-10 with 10 across...

Is the 767 layout as 7 particularly generous (it's particular cabin width, divided by 7), thus lending itself to this new arrangement? I know people have preferred the 767 because of all the twin seat options in coach, but I have heard less about typical seat width.

I wonder if, in these troubling times, other airlines could follow suit... It seems a logical step in this climate of drastic reduction of services. Perhaps the traditional 7-across seating in 767s is destined to be reserved for "economy plus?" Nothing surprises me anymore...

Thoughts?


I come in peace
74 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineGT4EZY From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2007, 1789 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 44988 times:

All UK charter operators have, at some point, had 8 abreast config on their 767's. Only relatively recently has FCA broken the mould. Funnily enough the average charter passenger has never really moaned and groaned about the seat width in the way that they have the seat pitch. Indeed, to be honest it isn't as bad as you might think.


Proud to fly from Manchester!
User currently offlineBaexecutive From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 746 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 44960 times:



Quoting SSTsomeday (Thread starter):
I admit I am not as much in the loop as many of you here, but I had not heard of this being done in a 767 before

I flew on a Mytravel 767 which was 8 abreast, was only a 4 hour flight and I paid peanuts for the flight (with my penny pinching ex) so wasn't bothered  Smile


User currently offlineSSTsomeday From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 1276 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 44892 times:



Quoting Baexecutive (Reply 2):
I flew on a Mytravel 767 which was 8 abreast, was only a 4 hour flight and I paid peanuts for the flight (with my penny pinching ex) so wasn't bothered Smile



Quoting GT4EZY (Reply 1):
Funnily enough the average charter passenger has never really moaned and groaned about the seat width in the way that they have the seat pitch. Indeed, to be honest it isn't as bad as you might think.

I'm glad the average Joe (a group I am very much part of) can go on a vacation and not pay an arm and a leg for it.

I seem to be in the minority with regard to my comfort preference; I find the softness of a seat (whether or not the seat is a floatation device, for example...) and the width of a seat more important than the legroom, since I endeavor to put my carry-on above me. But, to each his own. And I am 6 ft. Maybe because I often travel alone... so sleeping on someones shoulder is generally not an option...  Wink

Interesting to note that this seems to be an anomaly for British, international LLCs. Since a lot of 767 flights are shorter (in the 4 hour range) - I wonder if the majors are going to notice this opportunity to increase their CASM??



I come in peace
User currently offlineDanfearn77 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2008, 1813 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 44863 times:

I flew on a Thomsonfly 767 to the US and it was 8 a breast. Legroom was more of an issue than width!


Eagles may soar high, but weasels dont get sucked into jet engines!
User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8571 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 44837 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

BY ( remember them ? ) used to fly from Britain to Australia and New Zealand seasonally with 767s using 8 abreast economy seating - but they used to offer absurdly cheap fares for last minute deals on the backhaul segments ( would you believe NZD 399 - at that time probably around CAD 290.00 for AKL-LGW with 3-4 enroute stops )


Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineFlyCaledonian From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2093 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 44842 times:

Britannia Airways (now Thomsonfly) had 8-abreast on its 767-200s in the 1980s, whilst Monarch Airlines has 9-abreast on its A300-605Rs.


Let's Go British Caledonian!
User currently offlineBaexecutive From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 746 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 44840 times:



Quoting SSTsomeday (Reply 3):

hey hey, that was then. I travel FIRST/Club now  Big grin


User currently offlineFrigatebird From Netherlands, joined Jun 2008, 1621 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 44630 times:



Quoting SSTsomeday (Thread starter):
I have seen threads with lots of opinions about some airlines (KL, EK) going to 10 across on their 777s, and there was a lot of chatter about how cramped that might be, or if extra leg room eases that configuration.

I've been on an 8 hour MP flight on the sole 8 abreast 767 they had a few years ago, and also on a 9 hour flight on an AF 77W 10 abreast COI configuration. And I can assure you: the 767 flight was the worst I've ever had! It was so bad, it made me decide never to fly MP again (and with 9 abreast A330's coming for MP, that's not going to change). About every person bumped into my shoulder, and not a single trolley missed me  Angry

Compared with that, the COI 77W was not so bad at all. It wasn't exactly luxurious, but it didn't feel different from sitting in a 747... And at least I could sleep decently in the 77W.

And there were no complaints from fellow Y passengers either on the AF 77W flight about the seats - but I sure wasn't the only one complaining on the MP 767 flight  thumbsdown 



146,318/19/20/21,AB6,332,343,345,388,722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9,742,74E,744,752,762,763,772,77E,773,77W,AT4/7,ATP,CRK,E90,F50/7
User currently offlineB777Neuss From Germany, joined Aug 2007, 155 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 44583 times:

And Air Transat A310 and A330 also have 3-3-3.


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Photo © Richard Barsby - Aviation Photographer




B777Neuss


User currently offlineNcfc99 From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 740 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 44573 times:

I have flown on a 8 abreast 767 (thonsonfly), a 9 abreast A300 (monarch) and an EK 10 abreast 777. I found all to be fine on the width side of things, but I have never got enough legroom. I realy cannot understand most fo the negative comments that EK and the charter carriers get on here, it is not as bad as made out, IMHO.

User currently offlineRdwootty From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 904 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 44544 times:

The only 767 charter (UK) operator with 7 abreast is FCA and now this is to be operated by ThomsonFly we shall see if they are going to reconfigure or not. There is a way for you to find out if you are 7 or 8 and that is if the flight number is TOM then it is 8 and if the flight number is ToM then it is 7.
Not sure how they will configure the 787's they have on order as they were ordered by First Choice but the final cabin will be arranged the ThomsonFly. I am looking forward the the Non-stop flights to Hawaii...


User currently offlineLHRBFSTrident From UK - Northern Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 656 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 44525 times:

IIRC, Air Mauritius (or was it Air Seychelles?) was the first airline to experiment with the 8-abreast Y seating for the 767 in the 1980s - I remember reading an article about it in Flight International at the time...

LGW-MRU or SEZ in 8-abreast would have been pretty punishing!



Next up: LAX-LHR NZ002 Y SkyCouch! LHR-LAX NZ001 Y
User currently offlineAirbusA6 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2013 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 44471 times:

With legroom, the space in front of you is yours alone.

With shoulderroom, it is much more dependant on who you're sitting next too. Sit between 2 petite ladies, and you'll be ok with 8 abreast 767s etc. Sit between 2 wider men, and it can be very uncomfortable. Sitting between 2 friends on a 737 was horrible, as we're all quite large, and after 3 hours my arms were about to drop off with the lack of bloodflow...  crowded 



it's the bus to stansted (now renamed national express a4 to ruin my username)
User currently offlineGARUDAROD From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1517 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 44419 times:

I don't know what the fuss is about 8 or 9 abreast now, When the B747's
DC10s, L1011s, A300s started flying and for many years after that,
10 abreast was quite common.



Cargo doesn't whine, moan, or complain
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25440 posts, RR: 22
Reply 15, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 44165 times:



Quoting B777Neuss (Reply 9):
And Air Transat A310 and A330 also have 3-3-3.

AF also had 3-3-3 Y class seating on A300s and A310s that were mainly used on domestic routes in France. Air Inter also had 3-3-3 seating on A300s and A330-300s.


User currently offlineDebonair From Germany, joined Jan 2004, 2433 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 44041 times:



Quoting SSTsomeday (Thread starter):
I admit I am not as much in the loop as many of you here, but I had not heard of this being done in a 767 before.

It might be unusual, but this is standard on many airlines- not charter only.

Spanair was very proud to have this configuration (remember reading their magazine), but also BRA, Skymark and now Rossiya.

a better picture:


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Photo © Fabio Laranjeira - Contato Radar



User currently offlineFlyCaledonian From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2093 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 44033 times:

BA had 10-abreast in its TriStars - both shorthaul and longhaul - in the 1980s too. The DC-10s it inherited from BCal had 9-abreast and remained that throughout their life with BA. For a couple of years both types were being operated, with a couple of seasons where a handful of TriStars were operating longhaul from LGW alongside the DC-10s.


Let's Go British Caledonian!
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25440 posts, RR: 22
Reply 18, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 44021 times:



Quoting Debonair (Reply 16):
It might be unusual, but this is standard on many airlines- not charter only.

Many is an exaggeration. By far the majority of 767 operators, and virtually all scheduled carriers, have the standard 7-abreast Y class configuration.


User currently offlineAirCanada014 From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 1513 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 43999 times:

I know JL uses B747-200SR on domestic flight and its all economy but I've notice they didn't install extra seat across like having 3x5x3 instead the standard 3x4x3. Any reason why they didn't think of using that layout if they wanted to have more seats for domestic flight?

User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25440 posts, RR: 22
Reply 20, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 43925 times:



Quoting AirCanada014 (Reply 19):
I know JL uses B747-200SR on domestic flight and its all economy but I've notice they didn't install extra seat across like having 3x5x3 instead the standard 3x4x3. Any reason why they didn't think of using that layout if they wanted to have more seats for domestic flight?

They already have about 570 seats on their domestic 747s. I think that's enough. Any more would probably run into certification problems due to the number of emergency exits etc. Don't forget that 747s only had 9-abreast seating in Y class for the first few years after they went into service.

Also, the JL and NH domestic 747s are not all-economy. They have a domestic premium cabin also.


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 43923 times:

Talk about a horror story:

Flew on the AMC flight (operated by a North American 763) BAH-CHQ-NAP-TER-NOB. I was in 26E but here's the funny part. When I was assigned the seat in Bahrain, I said to the guy, oh this is an aisle seat so this is ok (I originally wanted a window) and he didn't respond but I didn't give it a second thought. Hey, the aviation nut I am, I know that E on a 767 is the aisle on the starboard side...NOT! I got on the plane and saw 8 abreast and was very upset. I'm a smaller guy and the guy sitting to my right was rather stout so lets just say that I didn't use my armrest the entire flight.

[Edited 2008-09-17 14:53:09]


What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineDazbo5 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 2913 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 43851 times:



Quoting SSTsomeday (Thread starter):
I was just looking at a photo posted by a fellow A-netter, of a Thomas Cook 767 interior.

You mean my photo!!


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Photo © Darren Wilson


A full seating plan is available on TCX's website.

Darren



Equipment: 2x Canon EOS 50D; Sigma 10-20 EX DC HSM, 50-500 EX APO DG, Canon 24-105 f/4 L, Speedlite 430EX
User currently offlineJet-lagged From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 874 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 43827 times:

A couple years ago I flew ANA from Tokyo to Hokkaido, and the 767 was 2-4-2.

User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 24, posted (6 years 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 43798 times:

So here's my question, is the width of the seat a bit smaller than 7 across or is there a simple shift in how the middle row is placed in the cabin (thus the aisle space being much smaller vice the seat width).


What gets measured gets done.
25 Viscount724 : 8-abreast 767 seats (and aisles) are very narrow. Fortunately I've never flown on one but I would expect they are even worse than 6-abreast BAe146s/A
26 Dazbo5 : The seats are very narrow and the seat pitch very tight in the middle seats. I spent 4 hours 15 mins in 29E when I took the above photo and even I fe
27 PlymSpotter : Yes, they are! I've only flown the 767 in 8 abreast once and would never do it again, as another poster said, the legroom was just as much of a probl
28 Lexy : Darren, let me just say that's a really nice photo. Looks like a full airplane!!!
29 AirCanada014 : Wow didn't know 9 abreast seating was the standard in the past for short while.
30 Dazbo5 : Thanks. I have one from her sister aircraft, G-TCCA in the queue but I don't have much confidence in it getting accepted here. The shutter speeds wer
31 SSTsomeday : Interesting, I would have though that they give you a little extra legroom if they are going to put and extra seat in the row. I guess they get you b
32 Pnwtraveler : A lot of the width issue depends on who is beside you. If it is a larger person and that extra width becomes very important. It really makes you appre
33 Sandyb123 : I just flew GLA-DBX-SIN-MEL on EK 777 all the way (10 across in coach). Seat width was OK actually but leg room poor. The first leg was on a -300ER wh
34 Brilondon : JL used their high density planes n their domestic routes whose flights only last a couple of hours. These flights are like taking a bus and that's h
35 Jetset409 : This thread has reminded me all about my trip on a WhyTravel 767 back in 2002(ish). Flew G-DIMB (now with MON, sistership to G-DAJC and G-SJMC) down t
36 Dazbo5 : Yes, they do. They are fabulous looking forward so you can see the landing gears and engines on take off and landing. The take off from Manchester an
37 Jetset409 : Yes I remember the positioning of the camera to be brilliant. The Airshow programme on the monitors cycled through the map and camera view after the p
38 Dazbo5 : I believe it's being leased to Air Méditerranée for the winter season. Darren
39 Aviationfreak : What would the capacity be of a 763 with 8 abreast?
40 Dazbo5 : TCX are 326Y. Darren
41 CasualObserver : Rubbish! I and many, many others have moaned and groaned about the appalling seating configurations ubiquitous to British low-cost and charter carrie
42 Planesarecool : Well I'm 6'5 and although i find the 28" configuration slightly uncomfortable, it's nothing like as bad as you make out. I'd be more than willing to
43 CasualObserver : All things are subjective - if you are happy to pay a couple of hundred pounds to sit in discomfort for 4 or 5 hours, then fine, that is a choice you
44 EBGflyer : Hasn't some of the charter operators improved their seat pitch? I know Thomas Cook Scandinavia has and also TuiFly. Perhaps the move with 8 abreast is
45 Dazbo5 : Working for a holiday website, that's the general feeling I get from passengers. Having been trans-atlantic on them twice (BY/TOM before the cabin re
46 JAAlbert : Don't forget Delta, which is installing the new 8 across configuration in its 767s using that new "cozy suite" concept. The seats look interesting, bu
47 RoseFlyer : I've sat in the mockup for the 777 with both the 9 abreast and 10 abreast seating layout (the first half is 9, and the second is 10 so you can compare
48 Planesarecool : Although, it's this lack of legroom that actually allows me to take a lot of my holidays - I generally book last minute, anything up to a day or two
49 Post contains links 787KQ : And only 5 toilets! http://www.thomascookairlines.co.uk/Boeing_A767.asp
50 EXTspotter : I have been on all 3 of the Ex-Airtours planes, but back in the 90s/early 00s, when it was still Airtours. 8 across is by far the norm in this country
51 Kiwiandrew : not only uncomfortable but incredibly slow - I have never heard of a flight from London to Luxembourg taking so long - normally about 1h 10 - 1 h 15
52 Dazbo5 : That was plenty for our flights to and from Dalaman last week / 2 weeks ago on the aircraft in question. There were no queues but then again they wer
53 Crosswind : " target=_blank>http://www.thomascookairlines.co.uk/...7.asp There are 6 actually - they've just missed 1 off the seat plan. The "missing" one is ahe
54 SSTsomeday : Unfortunate - There seems to be double jeopardy in putting in 8 across - MORE passengers, yet thinner aisles for emergency egress. Bad combination, i
55 CasualObserver : At the time I was so incensed by the physical pain involved inflying with Britannia who assured me their seating configuration for their B757-200 was
56 CasualObserver : DUH! Of course - LXR - lovely airport by the way...
57 Jetset409 : Already done - albeit on a small scale. Now please people, correct me if I am wrong, but haven't Britannia/TUI always managed to squeeze 235 seats in
58 Cricket : I've flown DEL-BKK on TG on a 3-4-3 773 and you have a point, it totally depends on whether you have someone next to you. I was seated on the 'K' win
59 Planesarecool : Given that we'd have been booking 2 months before the start of the Winter season, as well as the fact that they were happy to offer us up to 58 seats
60 CasualObserver : Didn't I read somewhere that Airbus had to install an additional escape exit over the wing to accomodate the additional passengers that Easyjet wante
61 Egmcman : Yes it is true but as someone who flys on their A319's four return trips a year on two and half hour flights STN - AGP they aren't bad.
62 Viscount724 : Yes, EasyJet A319s (and a few others) have 2 overwing exits per side. However I've never found EasyJet seating as tight as the typical U.K. charter/l
63 SR100 : No one mentioned Delta Air Lines so far. Their new configuration on the 763 - eventhough with staggered seats - will be 8 abreast aswell... And I assu
64 JAAlbert : Ah! But someone (me) did. See response no. 46 above. I am very interested to see how the new delta seats work out.
65 Intermodal64 : Even though seats will be staggered, 8-across on DL 767 long-haul will be cozy indeed. Hope the person sitting next to me (and sort of behind me) has
66 AirbusA6 : That depends very much on the rail operator, the cross country Virgin Voyagers (which run for very long journeys across the UK) are very uncomfortabl
67 Egmcman : German holidays are more expensive than ones sold in the UK.
68 SSTsomeday : Actually, that was not my quote. This is why seat width is more important to me than leg room, in general, barring ridiculously cramped configuration
69 A340600 : :OThat's a lot of seats on the 767! Reply 45 I flew on an 8 abreast 767 in 2005 to Florida on the now defunct XL, though they had 32-33" legroom whic
70 Senorbob : At one stage Britannia had 344Y in their short haul 763's and 290Y in the 762's.
71 Dazbo5 : I believe it's 7 cabin + 2 flight crew, but don't quote me on that! Darren
72 CasualObserver : Of course this is very true, German/Belgian/Swiss tour operators do offer a much better quality package than English operators. You do get what you p
73 Dazbo5 : Do they? The photo that originally started this topic was taken while onroute to a popular British, Dutch, German and Russian tourist destination. Th
74 Post contains links and images Dazbo5 : Cabin view aboard Thomas Cooks other Boeing 767-31K/ER as promised; G-TCCA (former G-SJMC, reg changed so it doesn't clash with G-OJMC): View Large Vi
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