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787, E-170/190, C-series: Freighters When?  
User currently offlineDIA From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3273 posts, RR: 28
Posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2129 times:

Juts a thought on the next generation of freighters. I can probably chalk this up to just being out-of-touch with how the freight-world operates.

Anyhow, I haven't noticed much, if any, talk of the 787, E-170/190, C-series, and other newer frames offering a freighter version. Now that I've opened this can of worms...feel free to fill me in on what I'm missing here...

If we can have learjet-size freighters, why not other small-types? And for the amount of A300-sized freighters, why no 787?


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11 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7057 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2086 times:



Quoting DIA (Thread starter):
Anyhow, I haven't noticed much, if any, talk of the 787, E-170/190, C-series, and other newer frames offering a freighter version. Now that I've opened this can of worms...feel free to fill me in on what I'm missing here...

I am sure that there will be a freighter version of the 787 soon after the first 787s has been in service for a few years Right now Boeing must finish the passenger version.
Just look how long it took Boeing to come out with a 777 freighter.



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineOby From Denmark, joined Aug 2008, 103 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2084 times:

the Boeing executives have talked about making a 787 freighter, but not for a lon time though. This is mainly due to the fact that cargo doen't really care if it is being carried in a dc-3 or a 787. And I know there is some economics in it. Look at how the older planes turned out. they started as a pax plane and then later on, when demand fell for it, they sarted making freighters of them and then convrsions aswel.

User currently offlineYYZYYT From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 947 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2034 times:



Quoting Oby (Reply 2):
the Boeing executives have talked about making a 787 freighter, but not for a lon time though. This is mainly due to the fact that cargo doen't really care if it is being carried in a dc-3 or a 787. And I know there is some economics in it. Look at how the older planes turned out. they started as a pax plane and then later on, when demand fell for it, they sarted making freighters of them and then convrsions aswel.

Now this is a guess only, but I'd say that economics argue against freght carriers paying top dollar for state of the art new aircraft. They can can get older planes for cheap... and the money they save over a new frame more than offsets the additional fuel that the guzzler will burn.


User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7688 posts, RR: 21
Reply 4, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2030 times:
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Is there a superjet freighter?


✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineDIA From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3273 posts, RR: 28
Reply 5, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1919 times:



Quoting YYZYYT (Reply 3):
Now this is a guess only, but I'd say that economics argue against freght carriers paying top dollar for state of the art new aircraft. They can can get older planes for cheap... and the money they save over a new frame more than offsets the additional fuel that the guzzler will burn.

This is a common thought among enthusiasts. But then, on the flipside, you have airlines/freight lines getting new freight a/c including MD-11s, 744s, 748s, A300s, 767s, 777s, A330s, Tu-204, among others.

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 4):
Is there a superjet freighter?

I didn't go there, but I wonder too about the superjet, and what of that new Chinese MD/DC-9 jet (the name escapes me)?



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User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 961 posts, RR: 51
Reply 6, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1901 times:



Quoting Columba (Reply 1):
Just look how long it took Boeing to come out with a 777 freighter.

The 777F and 767F were both offered about 15 years after launch of the initial passenger model. That trend would see Boeing launching a 787F in the middle/late portion of next decade.

Quoting DIA (Reply 5):
I didn't go there, but I wonder too about the superjet, and what of that new Chinese MD/DC-9 jet (the name escapes me)?

ARJ-21


User currently offlineIAD787 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 502 posts, RR: 44
Reply 7, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1879 times:

This should answer the 787 question:

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/fl...oeing-were-ready-for-a-787-fr.html



Former FlightBlogger turned Wall Street Journal Aerospace Beat Reporter
User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1870 times:

I really don't see there being much call for an E-Jets or CSeries freighter. They would be only slightly smaller than the 737NG or A320 family freighter conversions. Folks thought that the MD-80 might become the target of a freighter conversion to replace the DC-9 and 727 freighters. The small end of the cargo market will be well taken care of with 737 and A320 family a/c. There are thousands of potential a/c for conversion now and down the road. You can also throw in the 757 freighter into the discussion as well. That would really make the E-Jets and CSeries potential niche freighter a/c at best.

The 787F will eventually come to pass, but the real question is will there be the ability to convert a passenger 787 into a cargo a/c.


User currently offlineRwessel From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2311 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1736 times:
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Quoting YYZYYT (Reply 3):
Now this is a guess only, but I'd say that economics argue against freght carriers paying top dollar for state of the art new aircraft. They can can get older planes for cheap... and the money they save over a new frame more than offsets the additional fuel that the guzzler will burn.

The issue is more that many freighter simply don't spend enough time in the air to justify the high capital costs associated with a new airframe. Remember that you have to make your loan payments on the aircraft every month, no matter what, but you only have to pay for fuel, maintenance, flight crews, etc., when you're flying.

But that's not true of all routes, in some case, for some high time routes, people are buying new build freighters (for example, the FedEx 777s).

As an example, let's say you can buy an old airplane for $25k/mo, but it costs $2000/hr to run. A comparable new airplane costs you $100k/mo, but is more efficient and costs you only $1500/hr to run. If you're flying less than 150 hours per month, the old airplane is cheaper.


User currently offlineRwessel From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2311 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1698 times:
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Quoting Srbmod (Reply 8):
The 787F will eventually come to pass, but the real question is will there be the ability to convert a passenger 787 into a cargo a/c.

IIRC, Boeing has already made some provisions for that - like making sure nothing is routed through the area that would need to be cut out for a cargo door.


User currently offlineOvrpowrd727 From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 96 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1600 times:

with today's penny pinching who are you going to pay to manually load bags into a regional? the frame isn't large enough to pallets

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