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EK Considering Double Daily GRU And Drop CPT  
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Posted (6 years 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 10264 times:

EK is about to announce a second daily flights DXB-GRU starting in 2009. The decision is almost done and apparently the flight will operate with the A345 and will operate Japan-DXB-GRU. The UAE-Brazil bilateral was recently increased.

GRU has been a strong performer and since EK already has a strong base in Sao Paulo the airline decided for a second daily flights to GRU instead of opening a new flight to EZE. The high price of oil has influenced the decision as yields are extremely important to keep the route sustainable.

By the same token, EK is considering withdrawing DXB-CPT as the route has not proven profitable. The plans for DXB-DUR are also shelved.

Rgs,

98 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12476 posts, RR: 37
Reply 1, posted (6 years 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 10239 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Thread starter):
By the same token, EK is considering withdrawing DXB-CPT as the route has not proven profitable. The plans for DXB-DUR are also shelved.

That's interesting; that's the first time in a long time that EK has had to withdraw from a destination; might they increase capacity on JNB to compensate perhaps do an interline deal with SAA for CPT/DUR?


User currently offlineKtachiya From Japan, joined Sep 2004, 1794 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (6 years 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 10219 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Thread starter):
Japan-DXB-GRU

I believe that this is NGO-DXB-GRU? NGO has a huge Brazilian population and I heard that the flight that leaves at night is almost always full of Brazilian pax avoiding North America and transitting via DXB.

Will KIX-DXB have more Japanese pax than NGO?



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User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 3, posted (6 years 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 10194 times:



Quoting Ktachiya (Reply 2):
I believe that this is NGO-DXB-GRU?

My guess is EK NGO-DXB-GRU ensuring the fastest and smoother flight between Brazil and Japan. It will hit hard other carriers which transport premium pax between Japan and Brazil including JAL, LX, AF, LH, among others. It seems EK really captured the Brazilian market. EK has a top-tier management team in Brazil that really knows the market.

Quoting Ktachiya (Reply 2):
NGO has a huge Brazilian population and I heard that the flight that leaves at night is almost always full of Brazilian pax avoiding North America and transitting via DXB

NGO/KIX is what drives the yields of EK in Brazil. We are speaking of very high yields.

Rgs,


User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4785 posts, RR: 43
Reply 4, posted (6 years 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 10153 times:

Here is what the expected changes for EK in 2009 are slated to be:

Emirates is expected to go full force ahead with its expansion plans for its world wide route network in 2009 as the price of aviation fuel has spiraled downwards. The main highlights for EK in 2009 are expected to be as follows:

***Please note that what is mentioned below is being seriously planned only and nothing is officially confirmed except for the PERTH capacity increase. Though it is 90% guaranteed that GRU will get the double daily frequency.

GRU - to be increased to double daily nonstop flights i.e. daily B 772LR + daily A 345. The new daily flight using an A 345 is expected to be a same plane service originating from NGO-Nagoya, Japan. This is because a majority of EK's passenger on board the GRU-DXB-GRU flights are bound for China and Japan.

LTN - new daily flights to London Luton are expected to be launched using a 2 class A 332.

CPH - new daily flights expected to be launched using a 3 class A 332.

PER - capacity confirmed to be increased from February 1st 2009 to daily B 773ER + daily A 345.

BKK - 4th daily nonstop flight using a 2 class A 332 to be launched.

CGP - new flights to Chittagong, Bangladesh are expected to be launched.

CAI - an additional daily flight is planned to commence from Summer 2009.

BHX - capacity to be increased to daily B 773ER + daily B 772ER.

NGO - in-flight product to be upgraded from daily A 343 to daily A 345.


User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined exactly 14 years ago today! , 4504 posts, RR: 71
Reply 5, posted (6 years 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 10149 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Thread starter):
the flight will operate with the A345 and will operate Japan-DXB-GRU

What does that mean? I believe current connectivity is already quite good. Japan to Dubai flights are overnight and connect to the 10am Sao Paulo departure. Will the schedule the second GRU flight at 8am to offer even shorter connectivity? The return flight from GRU is even trickier to schedule as the current early morning is already not very appetizing.

I'd rather believe that the second GRU flight will leave DXB in the 2am departure hub, arrive GRU somewhere around 11am and then return early afternoon for a next morning arrival at DXB.


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 6, posted (6 years 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 10109 times:

Thanks for the brilliant and impeccable overview of EK 2009 plans on international routes.

I am surprised not to see AMS in their plans. I have information that EK is still considering either CPH or AMS as a new route in 2009.

As you mentioned, considering that oil prices have come down significantly to below USD100 perhaps CPT can survive, but I am sceptical for DUR as a new route.

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 4):
GRU - to be increased to double daily nonstop flights i.e. daily B 772LR + daily A 345. The new daily flight using an A 345 is expected to be a same plane service originating from NGO-Nagoya, Japan. This is because a majority of EK's passenger on board the GRU-DXB-GRU flights are bound for China and Japan.



Quoting Behramjee (Reply 4):
Though it is 90% guaranteed that GRU will get the double daily frequency.

I fully endorse your words above.

Rgs,


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 7, posted (6 years 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 10082 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Thanks for the update.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 3):
NGO/KIX is what drives the yields of EK in Brazil. We are speaking of very high yields.

Hardi, i disagree. It's a VFR market, far from being "very high yields". If you sell NGO-DXB and DXB-GRU in separate you got more than US$ 1,700, which is the same fare AA got on a GRU-MIA/GIG-MIA flight.
I would not accept the idea that such VFR market, with a lot of immigrants trying to work hard during 3 to 5 years to get some savings, will become a very high yield market. They fight for a better fare, they are not looking for a quick flight. If CDG is US$ 200 less, they will fly thru CDG.

High Yields on EK flights consist of people traveling to all around Asia, including China, India, Middle East, and in fact EK can focus on Japan VFR market to fill the back of it's planes. JAL continues to get the more C and F traffic from São Paulo.

Quoting Hardiwv (Thread starter):
EK is about to announce a second daily flights DXB-GRU starting in 2009. The decision is almost done and apparently the flight will operate with the A345 and will operate Japan-DXB-GRU. The UAE-Brazil bilateral was recently increased.

Interesting that they focus on serve more markets worldwide and now begin to increase services to one city instead of open a valuable bridge to other markets. I do believe this flight would perform better at Santiago, Rio de Janeiro or Buenos Aires as it will dilute the yields on the current flight. At the same time, being the sole daily operator to Asia, they will manage to get some good % from EZE, POA, SCL, CNF, BSB, ASU, MVD, CWB, SSA....

In the end, it's a matter of cosmetics open a second flight or begin a first in another market with a strong demand from all South America to Asia. But the lack of competition in other markets allow them to just focus in one destination.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 8, posted (6 years 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 10081 times:



Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 5):
What does that mean? I believe current connectivity is already quite good. Japan to Dubai flights are overnight and connect to the 10am Sao Paulo departure. Will the schedule the second GRU flight at 8am to offer even shorter connectivity? The return flight from GRU is even trickier to schedule as the current early morning is already not very appetizing.

You are right but the current flight operates with a "connection" in DXB. Apparently the second daily flight with operate with a "stop-over" in DXB.

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 5):
I'd rather believe that the second GRU flight will leave DXB in the 2am departure hub, arrive GRU somewhere around 11am and then return early afternoon for a next morning arrival at DXB.

I dont have the answer to what would be the alternative schedule for the second flight but I do think it will offer an alternative schedule pattern. I agree with your suggestion of late morning arrival and early afternoon departure in GRU, similar to what KE currently offers for its LAX-ICN flight. Yields will certainly come down.

Rgs,


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25346 posts, RR: 22
Reply 9, posted (6 years 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 10055 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Thread starter):
apparently the flight will operate with the A345 and will operate Japan-DXB-GRU

I assume any EK service Japan-Brazil via DXB would have to be published as a connecting service with different flight numbers on each sector. It is very rare for 6th freedom services to permit a single flight number end-to-end.


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 10, posted (6 years 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 10014 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 7):
Hardi, i disagree. It's a VFR market, far from being "very high yields". If you sell NGO-DXB and DXB-GRU in separate you got more than US$ 1,700, which is the same fare AA got on a GRU-MIA/GIG-MIA flight.
I would not accept the idea that such VFR market, with a lot of immigrants trying to work hard during 3 to 5 years to get some savings, will become a very high yield market. They fight for a better fare, they are not looking for a quick flight. If CDG is US$ 200 less, they will fly thru CDG.

I disagree Lipe, of course, Japan-Brazil also has a lot of low yielding price-sensitive passengers, however, there is a substantive high yielding traffic between Japan and Brazil. I can tell you that EK highest yielding market out of GRU is to Japan, I got this info from a fairly senior EK staff. For your info, one of the factors behind LX decision to increase flights to GRU was the traffic to Japan.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 7):
Interesting that they focus on serve more markets worldwide and now begin to increase services to one city instead of open a valuable bridge to other markets.

This is not true. EK focus on serving profitable markets. In a number of destinatiions EK operates more than daily flights.

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 1):
That's interesting; that's the first time in a long time that EK has had to withdraw from a destination

EK already withdrew from other destinations such as Alexandria.

Rgs,


User currently offlineYellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6179 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (6 years 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 9975 times:

Any news on the double daily to IAH.....we already know this in one of EK best performing markets and there has been rampant speculation of going 2Xdaily.


When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineIncitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4015 posts, RR: 13
Reply 12, posted (6 years 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 9868 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 7):
I do believe this flight would perform better at Santiago, Rio de Janeiro or Buenos Aires as it will dilute the yields on the current flight.

You may be right, but you have to see that GRU-DXB traffic is very small. Emirates thrives on connecting traffic and adding a second flight in the market opens another set of connecting options, many of them new. Emirates is operating at several destinations that are poorly served from GRU and if they can offer short connections they steal passengers out of the likes of AF and LH.

Also notice that yield dilution is a consequence of pricing strategies. If Emirates is stiff on pricing, they will prevent their current customers from switching to lower fares, or they will prevent much lower fares from existing in the first place.



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User currently offlineAbrelosojos From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 5100 posts, RR: 55
Reply 13, posted (6 years 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 9805 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 7):

High Yields on EK flights consist of people traveling to all around Asia, including China, India, Middle East, and in fact EK can focus on Japan VFR market to fill the back of it's planes. JAL continues to get the more C and F traffic from São Paulo.

= This is absolutely right. I was looking at some interesting data ... here is something interesting. There is a significant demand for traffic between India and Brasil. Unlike other markets, it is actually very business centered and ex-GRU. The airlines that have been hurt most with EK's entry is SA and LX ... both which provided onward connections to BOM via respective hubs. I spoke to someone in SA planning and they are revisiting the idea of a through 340 link between GRU and BOM via JNB to counter EK.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 7):
I do believe this flight would perform better at Santiago, Rio de Janeiro or Buenos Aires as it will dilute the yields on the current flight.

= Lipe - I disagree. The expense of setting up a new station is not justified - especially given SCL, GIG, or EZE have very limited passengers connecting to points in Asia. I think it makes sense to consolidate ops in one airport and try to ink an code-share deal with G3 to do beyond GRU.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 10):
I can tell you that EK highest yielding market out of GRU is to Japan, I got this info from a fairly senior EK staff.

= Where in Japan though?

Saludos,
A.



Live, and let live.
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 14, posted (6 years 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 9735 times:



Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 13):
= Where in Japan though?

NGO and KIX, I dont know which comes first. My guess is NGO.

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 13):
= Lipe - I disagree. The expense of setting up a new station is not justified - especially given SCL, GIG, or EZE have very limited passengers connecting to points in Asia. I think it makes sense to consolidate ops in one airport and try to ink an code-share deal with G3 to do beyond GRU.

You are correct, there risk involved in opening a new station plus the fact that the bulk of Asia traffic flies from GRU anyway, makes EK decision sensible. EK knows exactly the profile of its pax.

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 13):
= This is absolutely right. I was looking at some interesting data ... here is something interesting. There is a significant demand for traffic between India and Brasil. Unlike other markets, it is actually very business centered and ex-GRU. The airlines that have been hurt most with EK's entry is SA and LX ... both which provided onward connections to BOM via respective hubs. I spoke to someone in SA planning and they are revisiting the idea of a through 340 link between GRU and BOM via JNB to counter EK.

Of course EK does well in all Asian markets in general notably Japan, China, and India in this order. What I said, is that out of all markets served by EK from GRU, Japan is the one that EK has biggest yields. But no doubt that other Asian markets and the Middle East is very important.

About the potential of SA operating more flights to GRU it will not happen because 1) SA does not have fleet availability, 2) there are restrictions in the bilateral, 3) TAM will most likely start GRU-JNB A345 in 2009. In addition, EK connects GRU with many destinations in India and South Asia in general while SA only connects GRU to BOM and the flight schedule is poor in one of the legs.

Rgs,


User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3704 posts, RR: 19
Reply 15, posted (6 years 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 9738 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Thread starter):
The UAE-Brazil bilateral was recently increased.

EK didn't need the revision in order to increase service. The bilateral already comprised 14 frequencies on each side.


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 16, posted (6 years 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 9571 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 9):
I assume any EK service Japan-Brazil via DXB would have to be published as a connecting service with different flight numbers on each sector. It is very rare for 6th freedom services to permit a single flight number end-to-end.

Very good point.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 10):
I disagree Lipe, of course, Japan-Brazil also has a lot of low yielding price-sensitive passengers, however, there is a substantive high yielding traffic between Japan and Brazil

The only markets that saw reductions were GRU-JNB-BOM SA service and CA service. For me it shows they lost their premium demand to EK, which got a good share of India/China market.

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 13):
= This is absolutely right. I was looking at some interesting data ... here is something interesting. There is a significant demand for traffic between India and Brasil. Unlike other markets, it is actually very business centered and ex-GRU. The airlines that have been hurt most with EK's entry is SA and LX ... both which provided onward connections to BOM via respective hubs. I spoke to someone in SA planning and they are revisiting the idea of a through 340 link between GRU and BOM via JNB to counter EK.

Abrelosojos, i know that EK demand for Japan is very strong on Y, but majority of C and F goes to China, Hong Kong, India and Middle East. SA tried this route in the past, and as i mentioned above, was dropped 4 months after it begins. Now SA can't add more flights to GRU.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 10):
For your info, one of the factors behind LX decision to increase flights to GRU was the traffic to Japan.

So, probably they will face strong competition. Lets see how AC, LX, LH, AF and SA reacts to this new flight. Europe-Brazil is getting less connecting traffic since EK first flight, now seems to hurt both LX/LH and almost kill AC (which demand airport change to get to Japan). KE also would see some increased competition.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 10):
This is not true. EK focus on serving profitable markets. In a number of destinatiions EK operates more than daily flights.

There's a few Hardi, even here in the United States they begin to create new bases at LAX, SFO and IAH, and there are rumors about more services to other city's. NYC only got additional seats with the A380.
During the past 18 months they focused strongly in add new destinations, and yes, it's true.

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 13):
= Lipe - I disagree. The expense of setting up a new station is not justified - especially given SCL, GIG, or EZE have very limited passengers connecting to points in Asia. I think it makes sense to consolidate ops in one airport and try to ink an code-share deal with G3 to do beyond GRU.

You might be correct, but the traffic to Asia isn't so little from SCL/EZE/GIG. The fact is that nowadays people need to go thru GRU mostly (and many many times with tickets in separate) which generates an incomplete MIDT data. There are business in many places of South America and ties with India, China and the rest of Asia, as well as focus on people from Middle East and Asia to visit places like Buenos Aires and Rio. The traffic flows to and from South America.
But given current oil prices, in the end, i agree the expense to set up a new station is higher than a second flight, but i imagine they will introduce a flight with another schedule, and they will need other staff.

Of course, is safe to put a 2nd flight, but the last 3 experiences like that, after become 2 flights to 1 city changed to 2 flights to 2 destinations, become all very interesting. (DL to ATL -GRU/GIG-, LH to MUC/FRA -GRU/EZE-, UA to IAD -GRU/GIG-). All times people says there is only demand for 1 gateway, now it's clear there's more demand than that.
Agree that the first flight will always focus on São Paulo, but a second one ?!



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineUPPERDECKFAN From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 992 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (6 years 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 9572 times:



Quoting Ktachiya (Reply 2):
NGO has a huge Brazilian population and I heard that the flight that leaves at night is almost always full of Brazilian pax avoiding North America and transitting via DXB.



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 3):
NGO/KIX is what drives the yields of EK in Brazil. We are speaking of very high yields.

Why would a high yield pax out of GRU rather fly EK to Japan on a much longer journey than JL through JFK?

Wealthy frequent fliers that go in and out of the US several times a year do not face any harrassment by US inmigration agents and sitting on the front cabin you get out of the a/c first so it's difficult to me to believe that "very high yield" brazilian executive or millionaire would rather fly GRU-DXB-NRT than GRU-JFK-NRT



744,742,741,772,773,762,732,735,738,752,727,717,DC10,DC9,M82,M87,319,320,321,343,346,L1011,CRJ2,CRJ9,E190,ATR42,DSH8,
User currently offlineAbrelosojos From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 5100 posts, RR: 55
Reply 18, posted (6 years 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 9440 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 16):
The only markets that saw reductions were GRU-JNB-BOM SA service and CA service. For me it shows they lost their premium demand to EK, which got a good share of India/China market.



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 16):
Abrelosojos, i know that EK demand for Japan is very strong on Y, but majority of C and F goes to China, Hong Kong, India and Middle East. SA tried this route in the past, and as i mentioned above, was dropped 4 months after it begins. Now SA can't add more flights to GRU.

= I completely agree. That is what I was saying.

Saludos,
A.



Live, and let live.
User currently offlineStyles9002 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 527 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (6 years 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 9371 times:

So, still no word on if or when EK will serve DUB?

Can the rwy at DUB handle a fully loaded A345 taking off?



It is what it is.
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 20, posted (6 years 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 9263 times:



Quoting C010T3 (Reply 15):
EK didn't need the revision in order to increase service. The bilateral already comprised 14 frequencies on each side

True enough.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 16):
The only markets that saw reductions were GRU-JNB-BOM SA service and CA service. For me it shows they lost their premium demand to EK, which got a good share of India/China market

>>>GRU-JNB-BOM (which was the added frequency from SA to GRU) was dropped because of SA financial troubles, as I said, SA had to drop many routes including ZRH, CDG, and decreased capacity to key routes such as LHR and FRA.

>>> CA stopped operating the route because the flight only operated twice weekly, was rarely on time, and it was therefore a very poor choice for the high yielding pax.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 16):
i know that EK demand for Japan is very strong on Y, but majority of C and F goes to China, Hong Kong, India and Middle East.

EK demand for Japan is very strong in C and F and Y.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 16):
So, probably they will face strong competition. Lets see how AC, LX, LH, AF and SA reacts to this new flight. Europe-Brazil is getting less connecting traffic since EK first flight, now seems to hurt both LX/LH and almost kill AC (which demand airport change to get to Japan). KE also would see some increased competition.

Great to see more competition especially if it involves EK!

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 16):
There's a few Hardi, even here in the United States they begin to create new bases at LAX, SFO and IAH, and there are rumors about more services to other city's. NYC only got additional seats with the A380.
During the past 18 months they focused strongly in add new destinations, and yes, it's true.

There are many, Lipe, for example, to name just a few of EK multiple daily destinations: MXP double daily, ATH double daily, 17 weekly DAC, BOM 5 daily; DEL 25 weekly, JFK double daily; LHR 5 daily; LGW 3 daily; CDG 13 weekly; FRA double daily; ZRH double daily; JNB 21 weekly, etc, etc.

See a classical example: South Africa. EK decided to establish 3 daily flights in JNB before starting CPT daily operations. And what happened? Now CPT has a chance to be axed.

Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Reply 17):
Why would a high yield pax out of GRU rather fly EK to Japan on a much longer journey than JL through JFK?

Wealthy frequent fliers that go in and out of the US several times a year do not face any harrassment by US inmigration agents and sitting on the front cabin you get out of the a/c first so it's difficult to me to believe that "very high yield" brazilian executive or millionaire would rather fly GRU-DXB-NRT than GRU-JFK-NRT

Because of EK brand. Japan is one of the strongest and highest yielding markets out of Brazil. You can be sure that a lot of business and deep pocket passengers love to fly on EK first class suites. I am not saying that EK will kill JL, we only see more competition, which is healthy. EK is just another option.

The market Brazil-Asia is growing and we need more flights, more capacity, and instead of having a 3rd daily AF or 3rd daily LH flight we are having a second daily EK.

Quoting Styles9002 (Reply 19):
So, still no word on if or when EK will serve DUB?

Can the rwy at DUB handle a fully loaded A345 taking off?

No word of DUB and CPT is running the risk of being axed. EK 3 daily JNB flights continue very healthy.

Rgs,


User currently offlineOlympicATH From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2001, 292 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 9258 times:

Hi everybody.
A bit off topic but does anyone know if the second daily ATH flight has been confirmed?


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 22, posted (6 years 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 9226 times:



Quoting OlympicATH (Reply 21):
A bit off topic but does anyone know if the second daily ATH flight has been confirmed?

Yes the second daily flight to Greece will be to ATH starting 02 February 2009.

Rgs,


User currently offlineAznMadSci From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 3670 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (6 years 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 9177 times:



Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 11):
Any news on the double daily to IAH.....we already know this in one of EK best performing markets and there has been rampant speculation of going 2Xdaily.

I think once more 77L enter the EK fleet and they have started LAX and SFO, we could possibly see 10x to 12x weekly before going 2x daily. While the 77W can do the flight, it takes a serious payload hit. That was evident on days they had to sub in the 77W for a few days.



The journey of life is not based on the accomplishments, but the experience.
User currently offlineEk-a380 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 164 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 9136 times:

What about MAN?

Any plans on introducing a 3rd earling morning departure or other plans for MAN?

Also how well do EK do with flights to LHE / ISB / PEW and do they have any plans at all for this part of the world?


25 Ronerone : According to MIDT data, EK transported a total of 7,026 O&D passengers in 2007 between Brazil and Japan in both directions. Of these passengers, over
26 Ktachiya : Well perhaps if you think that the high yield pax are in the NGO region, that would make a lot of sense. I mean think of it, 1 hr 40 min on Shinkanse
27 Gilesdavies : I so so so would love to see this happen, but I just done see it ever happening anytime soon! EK would be one very brave airline to fly this sort of
28 777boi : I was told that part of the deal with the SA government and EK to be able to serve CPT, was that they would serve DUR as well. Now that EK has shelved
29 LipeGIG : Thanks for the info. Considering a little more than 62 days of operations, 51 flights or 102 in both directions, it give us an average of 69 pax per
30 Post contains links Hardiwv : Thanks for this very important information which confirms my statements. Japan is a major route for EK in Brazil and it demands F, C and Y. Yields fo
31 Ronerone : Unfortunately no. on MIDT, it will not count POA-CGH / GRU-DXB-CAN as one set of O&D traffic traveling between POA-CAN for example, because the ticke
32 CV990Coronado : EK were supposed to start CPT with an A332 but started with a 772 they have a 77W scheduled from December. Their loads have been good but it's true th
33 Jasondn : Any specific reason why they didn't stick to the A330?
34 Nimish : Exactly - as Hardiwv mentions above, SA is going to be disadvantaged (as they fly only to BOM) against the multiple points that EK touches within Ind
35 CV990Coronado : Quoting Jasondn" "Any specific reason why they didn't stick to the A330?" As far as we could see it was because the initial forward bookings were so s
36 Hardiwv : Correct, EK with its multitude of daily services to various Indian destinations will become the best carrier between India and Brazil. I've been to D
37 Abrelosojos : = Interesting. Using Sabre to access MIDT, I get 5,993 O&D between Brasil and Japan. = Lipe. Ronerone answers it right. Another thing to keep in mind
38 Ronerone : That is indeed interesting, because i also used Sabre MIDT. Was your figure for one direction only or did you select roundtrip indicator? Very true!
39 LipeGIG : Thanks for clarify this doubt. It's a situation more than usual in Brazil that now i understand it's results. Yes Hardi, but they can't introduce mor
40 Abrelosojos : = It is just one. Paxis is another one used frequently. And then there are the O&D surveys that several countries have. You would be amused at how ma
41 Hardiwv : As mentioned, MIDT and Paxis are just two of the various instruments used by airlines which are complemented by others to make estimates more precise
42 CV990Coronado : Perhaps with hindsight in haste I used too few words which might have caused a misunderstanding, or possibly even offence none of which was intended.
43 Hardiwv : No problem, you know the issue is sensitive. I am also interested to see what will happen to CPT in EK network, but I know it runs the serious risk o
44 Ronerone : Correct. Also i think that MIDT is best for looking at trends and perhaps seasonality. For route planning purposes it is also used in conjunction wit
45 Luckyone : Do you mean from an "Asian" carrier, or carrier overall? If it's the latter, that's not correct as AA, CO, and DL all provide ample opportunities eve
46 777way : Yes, Alexandria was dropped just a couple of weeks back.
47 HUYfan : RE : Luton How did the Silverjet Dubai flights do? Maybe if EK can pick up some of this traffic, premium in this case, the route could work. I would h
48 Incitatus : What are you talking about? The 36% figure is for Brazil-Japan on Emirates, not GRU-DXB. Look back reply 25.
49 Viscount724 : Not to mention all the European carriers that serve Brazil (and other countries in South America) and offer convenient online connections to/from the
50 Hardiwv : Thanks for the confirmation. Indeed, I found the statement a bit confusing, but after reading it carefully you are right. The 36% refer to the Japan-
51 LipeGIG : Ok.... lets try with some calculations: 7,026 divided by 79 = (92 flights in each direction divided by 7 weekly multiplied by 6) (6x weekly from the
52 C010T3 : You actually mean no requirements, since no visas are necessary for transit. Canada on the other hand...
53 Lambert747 : If for service levels alone EK wins out over JL. In addition JL is not daily.
54 Viscount724 : I disagree for Y class. A 10-abreast 747 is more comfortable than a 10-abreast 777.
55 Incitatus : I agree with you that traffic between Dubai and Brazil tends to grow, and we will be seeing more and international conferences and trade shows in Dub
56 Ronerone : Sorry if the statement sounded confusing. I was indeed referring to Japan - Brazil market. As for the 36%, it is up for discussion as the calculation
57 Skyhigh : Sorry, I am being lazy but can anyone tell me what the flight duration via Dubai is in relation to JL's flight via JFK? If possible, including current
58 Rafabozzolla : But, IMHO EK's schedule is horrible. I recently declined a biz trip to BOM on EK because of the schedule. It leaves GRU at 1h25 to arrive at DXB at a
59 Airbazar : Well, there are 2 obvious reasons: 1) Not everyone can get on the 1 single daily flight on JL. 2) JL flies to NRT while the demand is to NGO/KIX. In
60 Post contains links Yyzcabincrew : Emirates poised for expansion as oil price falls by Andy Sambidge Monday, 11 August 2008 Dubai-based airline Emirates is poised to restart its expansi
61 Post contains links Hardiwv : Already discussed at length: http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...eneral_aviation/read.main/4103348/ Another reason to believe that EK service reli
62 Incitatus : One has to see though that if the price of oil returns to non-shock levels there will be less capital and slower growth in the Middle East. Lower oil
63 LipeGIG : Thanks for clarify. So i imagine you forgot to divide by 2 the total number of pax on Japan-Brazil market. Can you kindly check based on my above cal
64 Post contains images Ronerone : I was actually trying to determine what the 7,026 Japan-Brazil O&D figure was as a percentage of total seats sold in 2007 on EK's GRU flight. Apart f
65 Richcandy : Hi With regards to CPT is Cape Town not more of a leisure destination? If so they are yet to operate a service over the summer season, would it not be
66 LipeGIG : Roni, thank you for being so kindly and polite. Users like you help to produce the most fantastic "airliners" community. Based on your number, we can
67 Hardiwv : Pre-schock oil level I think we are speaking at oil prices around USD40....thats a long way to go! Dont forget that not long ago oil prices were at U
68 MAH4546 : No, it is not a "myth." CPT is a low-yield leisure market. Just because KLM (and others like BA) is able to do well in the market does not change the
69 CastropRauxel : I've found something interesting... According to IATA, during 2007 EK flew 7257 pax from NGO to GRU via DXB, and only 58 (!) pax from KIX to GRU (yes
70 UPPERDECKFAN : Although I agree with this statement, your examples are very poor since these destinations do not face any competition (except MCO): KL is the only n
71 Rafabozzolla : I did not go after all. But there were other reasons besides the flight itself.
72 Ronerone : This is indeed very informative! This would tell me, and for obvious reasons, that the majority of the traveling is done by the Japanese community ba
73 CastropRauxel : And that's all the interesting part - it's not like that, but the majority is originating in Brazil. Is there really such a large amount of Japanese
74 Hardiwv : You have a point here. But nothing prevents EK from joining the group of successful airlines in CPT. This proves that NGO is indeed the no. 1 market
75 Hardiwv : The biggest Japanese community living outside Japan is in Brazil, especially in Sao Paulo and Parana. Sao Paulo's Japanese district is called Liberty
76 CityofAthens : That's only half the story; immigration queues at many US airports are extraordinarily long, resulting in some people missing connections. The queues
77 Ronerone : A quick glance at the UAE-Brazil O&D market for 2007 revealed the following: Total O&D traffic for UAE-Brazil in both directions is 12,483 pax. Market
78 Ronerone : True. MIDT does have load factor figures as well, but it is not indicative of the true market (another drawback of MIDT). If we base the calculations
79 UPPERDECKFAN : As it happens in every major european airport like CDG, MAD, FRA, etc. Of course if you're sitting on the last rows of a PK744 landing at LAX's TBIT
80 Hardiwv : Some fresh news regarding EK: it will drop one of its double daily DXB-PVG. The route will operate daily instead of twice daily from October until Dec
81 Post contains links and images Viscount724 : Which is why MEA served Brazil for several years. If memory correct their flights operated via ABJ. View Large View MediumPhoto © Normando Carva
82 Incitatus : This serves to exemplify how tough it is to serve Brazil outside of GRU/GIG. It is not that it is small. It is geographically disperse across a good
83 C010T3 : That does not exemplify anything when it comes to America and Europe, the two largest foreign markets from Brazil. I don't think anyone is disputing
84 LipeGIG : Well, it could be explained by a constant migration from Brazil to Japan. People in general purchase R/T flights (it's cheaper than OW) and do not fl
85 Dellatorre : Are you sure we live in the same country???? Considering Brazil a country where people live together and face no major problems is a bit utopic don't
86 EXAAUADL : Gee it looks like EK is finding that markets arent insatiable
87 C010T3 : He means ethnic and cultural conflicts.
88 Ronerone : Brazil is also a party destination Heard some great stories! hehe. It is definitely on my plans!
89 CastropRauxel : Oops I missed that little fact... OK, so the results for 2007's fourth quarter are indeed different...EK with a market share of 22% out of Japan to B
90 Ronerone : Where on IATA are u getting these specific results? are u using Airport-IS or something similar? Regards, Roni
91 Hardiwv : Indeed, where did you get these results? The numbers dont seem to match. Certainly EK knows exactly the origin of its passengers in Brazil. Although
92 CastropRauxel : Exactamente Why not match? Anyway it's nothing of a secret. it's open data any airline in the world can request and get. if you want, I can send you
93 LipeGIG : Coiote already clarify the situation, and i believe now we both agree ! Sidenote, now i live in the United States, but visit Brazil very frequently.
94 Incitatus : Might have it occurred to you that I am familiar with the topic? I never said the numbers were exact, I never even said they were close to the right
95 Ronerone : Airport-IS is great for POS data. the figures look realistic to me. Perhaps the "others" is the missing link that completes the 100% figure? Keep in
96 CastropRauxel : Well, EK 22%, JL 16%, and I remember DL was third with 10%. the rest were less significant numbers. Hmmm. good point. Oh yeah. in case I didn't expla
97 Naritaflyer : Shopping.
98 Hardiwv : [quote=CastropRauxel,reply=96]But let's go back to EK - so, doubling the flight to GRUquote] It is amazing because it took years for AF to double its
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