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TAM New US-Brazil Routes  
User currently offlineJetblue32 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 79 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 5338 times:

Hello, I was wondering if someone could tell me the status of the various new routes from the U.S. to Brazil TAM was announced to start (their website would not function on my computer; was extremely slow and froze up when I tried to do any route searches); MCO-GRU is starting in November, right? I also heard they would be starting MIA-GIG, JFK-GIG, and LAX-GRU; any word on these or other new routes from U.S? Thanks.

48 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLambert747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5280 times:



Quoting Jetblue32 (Thread starter):
I also heard they would be starting MIA-GIG, JFK-GIG, and LAX-GRU; any word on these or other new routes from U.S? Thanks.

The word has it that LAX-GRU is a no go, instead JJ is looking at SFO-GRU to tie in with the United Airlines and Star Alliance feed at SFO. It is my belief also that JJ is going to start a MCO-GRU service with the 767-300.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32571 posts, RR: 72
Reply 2, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5276 times:

MIA-GIG starts today, daily 763.

Quoting Lambert747 (Reply 1):

The word has it that LAX-GRU is a no go, instead JJ is looking at SFO-GRU to tie in with the United Airlines and Star Alliance feed at SFO.

No, that is not "the word." TAM is not going to fly to LAX or SFO.



a.
User currently offlineLambert747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5267 times:

GRU-LAX has been discussed as off of the table, however GRU-SFO has been discussed as a route that is much more viable for the long term due to the UA concentration of T-Pac flights from the SFO market. It is a not a route that will start anytime soon if it is started at all. It has been discussed as being a route that may be started within the next year to two years.

[Edited 2008-09-19 10:28:41]

User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11406 posts, RR: 59
Reply 4, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5154 times:
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GIG-JFK starts 4x weekly Nov 01, JFK-GIG starts Nov 02. To be upgraded to Daily A332 probably in 03/2009.
MCO would begin with A332 during November.
BSB-MIA probably begin 03/2009 with the 763 released from GIG-JFK.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 2):
MIA-GIG starts today, daily 763.

And it's overbooked by 10.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7478 posts, RR: 24
Reply 5, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5124 times:



Quoting Lambert747 (Reply 3):
GRU-LAX has been discussed as off of the table, however GRU-SFO has been discussed as a route that is much more viable for the long term due to the UA concentration of T-Pac flights from the SFO market. It is a not a route that will start anytime soon if it is started at all. It has been discussed as being a route that may be started within the next year to two years.

Ive heard that niether LAX or SFO is under consideration any more.



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User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11406 posts, RR: 59
Reply 6, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5068 times:
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Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 5):
Ive heard that niether LAX or SFO is under consideration any more.

Not for now, but TAM will continue to monitor the market.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineJJ8080 From Brazil, joined Aug 2008, 932 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4921 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 6):
Not for now, but TAM will continue to monitor the market.

With KE on the market and DL going for it (LAX), i think that SFO is probably next JJ destination on the USA, and we may eventualy see a brazilian airline flying to Asia again (GRU-SFO-NRT)...



100 146 319/20/21 332 722 732/3/4/5/G/W/8/H/9 742/3/4 752/3 762/3 772/W BE2 BET E75 CNJ CR2 D10 F27 F50 ER4 LRJ M11 M80
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7478 posts, RR: 24
Reply 8, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 4852 times:



Quoting JJ8080 (Reply 7):
With KE on the market and DL going for it (LAX), i think that SFO is probably next JJ destination on the USA, and we may eventualy see a brazilian airline flying to Asia again (GRU-SFO-NRT)...

I really dont think GRU-SFO would work at all. LAX-GRU barely works and historically doesnt work. LAX-GRU has a much bigger local market and still provides connectivity to Asia.



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User currently offlineLambert747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4683 times:



Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 8):
I really dont think GRU-SFO would work at all. LAX-GRU barely works and historically doesnt work. LAX-GRU has a much bigger local market and still provides connectivity to Asia.

SFO would work for a number of reasons:

#1 - United Airlines de-facto Asian hub
#2 - United Airlines West Coast connectivity at SFO
#3 - Business ties between the Bay Area and Brasil
#4 - Brazilian community VFR in SF Bay Area

A bit or trivia, when UA operated the flight from SFO-LAX with the RG flight number that flight was full near most of the time with LAX connecting passengers heading to the SF market.


User currently offlinePlanenutz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4676 times:

TAM sent a marketing team to SFO to meet with travel agents, etc last year in the hopes that they would start a regular frequency to GRU.

Unfortunatley, the idea was shelved because of USA visa requirements for all connecting pax. It simply wouldnt work out as a worthwhile investment.


User currently offlineLambert747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4676 times:



Quoting Planenutz (Reply 10):

Unfortunatley, the idea was shelved because of USA visa requirements for all connecting pax. It simply wouldnt work out as a worthwhile investment.

Thanks to the government, sometimes things never cease to amaze even the most informed of travelers.


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11406 posts, RR: 59
Reply 12, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4587 times:
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Quoting JJ8080 (Reply 7):
With KE on the market and DL going for it (LAX), i think that SFO is probably next JJ destination on the USA, and we may eventualy see a brazilian airline flying to Asia again (GRU-SFO-NRT)...



Quoting Planenutz (Reply 10):
Unfortunatley, the idea was shelved because of USA visa requirements for all connecting pax. It simply wouldnt work out as a worthwhile investment

TAM is looking closer to SFO because as per US Ambassador for Brazil, we could see a change on the visa policy in the near future. The fact is that there was a big increase in the number of visitors, and with the devaluation (not considering the past two weeks) of US$ against BRL as well as tight policies to get driver license, social security, bank account and to get a job, there are many Brazilians returning to Brazil.
This has put Brazil in a better ratio and able to get into a Visa Waiver Program, if US decides to easy it's policy.

And without visa for connections, SFO become priority.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineLambert747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4577 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 12):

And without visa for connections, SFO become priority.

There are a lot of people in the Goias community in SF that will be more than happy to fly the route!


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32571 posts, RR: 72
Reply 14, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4572 times:



Quoting Lambert747 (Reply 13):
Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 12):

And without visa for connections, SFO become priority.

There are a lot of people in the Goias community in SF that will be more than happy to fly the route!

No, there aren't.

SFO-Brazil's O&D numbers are quite small, smaller than even Atlanta.



a.
User currently offlineLambert747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4558 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 14):

SFO-Brazil's O&D numbers are quite small, smaller than even Atlanta.

SFO-Brazil is not different than ATL-Brazil, and by your measure the 3 and soon to be 4 flights from ATL to Brazil should not exist if my the measure of O/D alone. It has been discussed by myself and others time and time again that JJ is looking at SFO. They are the airline, they should know. There is a definite reason that JJ is looking at SFO over LAX.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 14):

No, there aren't.

So you are disputing there is a good size Goias community in the Bay Area?


User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7478 posts, RR: 24
Reply 16, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 4535 times:



Quoting Lambert747 (Reply 15):
There is a definite reason that JJ is looking at SFO over LAX.

Youre dreaming bro. JJ isnt looking at either right now and that is a FACT.



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User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11406 posts, RR: 59
Reply 17, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 4527 times:
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Quoting Lambert747 (Reply 13):
There are a lot of people in the Goias community in SF that will be more than happy to fly the route!

Agree, but the focus would be Asia (mainly Japan).



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineCsavel From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1362 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4410 times:



Quoting Lambert747 (Reply 15):
So you are disputing there is a good size Goias community in the Bay Area?

Don't know how big a market it is, but generally an ethnic market has to be "huge" not just good-sized. Think of it, a family might go back home once a year? during summer vacation and will typically book the cheapest tickets. I understand that there might be other family going back and forth (Grandma coming up for a visit) but in all those situations price is likely to be a factor. If the Gonsalves's can get a cheap domestic flight SFO - ATL they will and then get the cheapest flight to the home country.

I still think (with some exceptions) that it is business class and wealthy pax who drive whether or not an airline will fly to a city.

Again the ethnic market is valuable if it is huge (Indians, Koreans, Jews in New York Area, Poles in Chicago, Philipinos in LA and Vegas) But it has to be pretty big.

Lot of Thais and Philipinos in Queens (lot of *everything* in Queens) but not enough for PAL or Thai.

Lot of Guyanese in Queens and Brooklyn, and well the history of New York Guyana flights isn't too wonderful.

There might be some exceptions but the exceptions are generally markets that have low-cost airlines set up just for that purpose, and whose home markets for whatever reason don't generate tourists of businesspoeple from the developed world.



I may be ugly. I may be an American. But don't call me an ugly American.
User currently offlineMiner From Brazil, joined Aug 2007, 105 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4403 times:

TAM had announced a month back or so new flights from Belo Horizonte (CNF) to MIA and CDG. While we all got excited here in Belo, it turned out that it was nothing more than a marketing ploy with newsflash all over town saying "Belo gets new international flights"; "Gateway to the world", blah blah. The flights originates in Belo on A320s but change planes in Rio and Sao Paulo. So, nothing new. I know they're watching the market and reacting to Copa's new CNF-PTY, but come on... we're not that dumb. If you want to go to a new market, you don't have to tip toe around your competitors, watch them gain market share and then upgrade and re-announce.

User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11406 posts, RR: 59
Reply 20, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3965 times:
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Quoting Miner (Reply 19):
TAM had announced a month back or so new flights from Belo Horizonte (CNF) to MIA and CDG. While we all got excited here in Belo, it turned out that it was nothing more than a marketing ploy with newsflash all over town saying "Belo gets new international flights"; "Gateway to the world", blah blah. The flights originates in Belo on A320s but change planes in Rio and Sao Paulo. So, nothing new. I know they're watching the market and reacting to Copa's new CNF-PTY, but come on... we're not that dumb. If you want to go to a new market, you don't have to tip toe around your competitors, watch them gain market share and then upgrade and re-announce.

Miner, you are right but be in mind, TAM took almost 6 years to introduce it's 3rd flight to MIA (from MAO) and now almost 2 more to introduce the GIG-MIA.
I'm not defending them as we all agree they took too long to focus on international flights, but it's impossible to increase from 2 to 7 (in my opinion they can fly 7 daily flights to MIA : the four current operations, plus BSB-MIA, CNF-MIA and SSA/REC or FOR-MIA)

A good example for CNF power is that AA advance bookings on C for CNF-MIA are doing very well. Some flights already sold up to 30% of it's capacity more than two months in advance.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7478 posts, RR: 24
Reply 21, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3891 times:



Quoting Csavel (Reply 18):
Again the ethnic market is valuable if it is huge (Indians, Koreans, Jews in New York Area, Poles in Chicago, Philipinos in LA and Vegas) But it has to be pretty big.

The Brazilian markets in the Bay Area is nowhere near that size.

For a long haul flight to work, it really needs to be one of two things:

1) A HUGE O&D. A VFR and Business O&D combined is preferable. For VFR, the examples that spring to mind are the Filipinos, Koreans, and Thai here in Los Angeles. In business I always thing of Sydney and London here in Los Angeles.

2) A large bank of connections to draw from. Thats the only reason why most hubs even work.

The ideal is to have both. SFO has a hub but O&D traffic is relatively small.

We wont know if the flight would work until someone starts it and either fails or succeeds.



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User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11406 posts, RR: 59
Reply 22, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3807 times:
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Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 21):
1) A HUGE O&D. A VFR and Business O&D combined is preferable. For VFR, the examples that spring to mind are the Filipinos, Koreans, and Thai here in Los Angeles. In business I always thing of Sydney and London here in Los Angeles.


I'm not sure that there's no strong O&D:

However, California has a good size of Business to Brazil, something people just don't like to mention (or accept). Just need to say about IT area (Microsoft, Cisco, Apple, Vasco, McAfee, HP, Sun Microsystems, ...), Cine & Video (Warner Bros...) Financial (Bank of America, Wells Fargo, Funds and Hedge Funds interested in Real Estate in Brazil), Exports from Brazil (there's a very interesting development, an eco-car named Obvio! exported from Rio to California in a small quantity of 50,000), the first semiconductors plant in Brazil is a California investment also, sugar cane projects in Brazil, and of course, we got leisure!

This people while going to Brazil flies thru DFW, IAH, ATL and MIA.

With this, and together with Asia and even the No-Visa Policy, i have no doubts that California can hold up to 2 daily flights to Brazil with great success.

[Edited 2008-09-20 09:43:17]


New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineIncitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 3994 posts, RR: 13
Reply 23, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3769 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 22):
With this, and together with Asia and even the No-Visa Policy, i have no doubts that California can hold up to 2 daily flights to Brazil with great success.

I read that the US consulates in Brazil are investing in expanding the visa processing capacity by a very big number. That indicates they don't expect a no-visa policy.


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11406 posts, RR: 59
Reply 24, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3748 times:
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Quoting Incitatus (Reply 23):
I read that the US consulates in Brazil are investing in expanding the visa processing capacity by a very big number. That indicates they don't expect a no-visa policy.

Incitatus, in my view, they can't wait for a Visa change to take care of demand. US is looking to receive more tourists and Brazilians are among the top three in expenses with a very high daily expense, just behind Japan.
Brazilian Consulates in the US process a visa in 1 (one) day and have a wait line of no more than 5 days. In the opposite US consulates shows now the following lines:

Brasilia - 27 days
Recife - 69 days
Rio de Janeiro - 50 days
Sao Paulo - 74 days

Do not take care of this demand, now, means they would lost money as for example Recife will deal with American and Delta investments and the own efforts from US Amabassador to get such flights.

So, for me, this can't say they don't expect a no-visa policy.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
25 Lambert747 : I am not sure where you are getting your information from but there are several markets that claim a good O&D to markets from the Bay Area. As previo
26 MAH4546 : Never had plans to start LAX-MAD. Not yet official, albeit likely. No, they did not. They ended all long-haul flights. Neither of those were ever bei
27 Post contains links Lambert747 : Excuse me, it was my error it was in 2006, and in fact it was Air Madrid. Source: http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...eneral_aviation/read.main/28
28 LAXdude1023 : Hey dude, if youre going to argue in favor of SFO-GRU, you should say somthing about the Brazilian Market in SFO as opposed to other random destinati
29 Lambert747 : The response was in reference to the beyond believable posts by yourself that LAX is some sort of be all end all market that would otherwise seem to
30 Post contains links Hardiwv : The waiting time in Brasilia is 9 days only. As a result of the US Department of State investment in Brazil to speed up visa processing, the Embassy/
31 LipeGIG : So it's a "magic" development. I checked the info on Saturday morning ! Yesterday i talked personally with US Ambassador for Brazil and he confirmed
32 Tonytifao : Is DL still applying for LAX-GRU with the 763?
33 LACA773 : Now that JJ will become a part of *A, what are the chances they will add ORD-GRU so UA can put that a/c elsewhere?
34 C010T3 : You mean those A/C, since ORD-GRU requires two frames. I don't see ORD-GRU going anywhere. It's been recently upgauged to 77E in the winter and it's
35 LACA773 : That's a good point C010T3. Thanks. In addition to UA serving the route, is there a good possibility JJ will start service to ORD in addition to what
36 LACA773 : Could we also se JJ adding new service out of EWR and IAH since CO is going * Alliance as well?
37 MAH4546 : Pigs will probably fly before TAM is flying to Houston.
38 Post contains links MAH4546 : Brazilian report that TAM will increase MIA-SSA to 4x weekly: http://www.jornaldamidia.com.br/noti...r_diz_que_a_Bahia_tera_11_vo.shtml If true, looks
39 C010T3 : But UA and LH work very closely together over the Atlantic. There must good reasons for that. ORD is UA's home. They wouldn't just hand it out to JJ.
40 2travel2know : That would be the day JJ flies LAD-GIG-IAH. Give IAH immediate JJ connections to/from LAD @ GIG and look what would happen. However if both CO and JJ
41 LipeGIG : It depends on how the new routes will perform. No doubt TAM is missing a massive Hub in the US and IAH can be such Hub. Lets see if it comes true. It
42 Hardiwv : As I said many times, airlines know exactly their markets! Airlines operate for profits and if a market shows return they will invest in it. CO and o
43 MAH4546 : No surprise they are looking to put the 763 on MCO again. TAM's 332, the way it is currently configured, cannot possibly fly to MCO and make a decent
44 LipeGIG : Agree. Unless, as we discussed previously, they set up another A332 config with something like 18C 250Y. They are looking for an ex-Air Madagascar 76
45 Post contains links Incitatus : TAM's press release on CNF-MIA and CNF-CDG is almost silly: http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/080924/3747607en_public.html?.v=1 Below the headline a connect
46 LipeGIG : If they took the same time to allow CNF to get non-stop services... they begin tags to/from GIG by 2000 and the first non-stop in 2007 to CDG.
47 Miner : Tell me about it. But surprisingly some people I talk to here in Belo find these news fantastic. "Woo hoo- Tam is going to Miami and Paris!! " So may
48 LipeGIG : Use to be the same in Rio. At the airport, while advised about the "stop" is that they star understand and complain.
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