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Dayjet Ceases Ops  
User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4456 posts, RR: 7
Posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 7351 times:

Very sad to read this news today.



DayJet Discontinues Passenger Operations

Global Financial Crisis Grounds World’s First “Per-Seat, On-Demand” Jet Service

BOCA RATON, Fla. – September 19, 2008 – DayJet Services, LLC, the world’s first operator
of “Per-Seat, On-Demand” jet service, today announced that it has ceased jet services, pending
further notice. The company today eliminated most employee positions. With the discontinuation of jet services and cancellation of all flights, DayJet is unable to honor any customer reservations.

http://www.dayjet.com


I was hoping they would succeed... which would eventually bring prices down to where I could afford them. For now, I guess, I'm still flying AA out of MIA... Sad

26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17450 posts, RR: 46
Reply 1, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 7210 times:

I was never very optimistic about this business model...are there any competitors still in business and how are they doing?


E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineLowrider From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 3220 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 7155 times:

The closest competitor would be some of the fractionals. I was not optimistic about this idea either, especially with the Eclipse. Too bad, though. If it had worked it could have been a great job.


Proud OOTSK member
User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 7111 times:



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 1):
I was never very optimistic about this business model...are there any competitors still in business and how are they doing?

Pogo Jet is still around (The air taxi service former AA CEO Bob Crandall is heading up.), planning to launch services (Initial service area will be 600 miles from NYC) during Q1 2009. Honestly, I don't see them launching services. They've indefinitely delayed they IPO, and the publicity in regards to the Eclipse 500 isn't good either. Throw in the fact that the EASA certification is nearly identical to the FAA's certification yet the EASA is questioning a number of aspects of the Eclipse 500, and their fleet plans could be scuttled.


User currently offlineJetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 3268 posts, RR: 35
Reply 4, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 7067 times:



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 1):
I was never very optimistic about this business model...are there any competitors still in business and how are they doing?

Its nice to agree with you on something my friend!  Smile


User currently offlineFalcon flyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1323 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 7007 times:



Quoting Lowrider (Reply 2):
The closest competitor would be some of the fractionals.

I don't know that the fractionals can be considered competitors. Fractionals involve aircraft ownership under FAR 91, or more precisely 91K. While most fractionals operate to FAR 135 standards, on-demand charter would be considered closer to what Dayjet did.



My definition of cool ? Not trying so hard to be cool.
User currently offlineBaron95 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1335 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 6652 times:

Two related bits of info that perhaps explain the abrupt DayJet stoppage

From a 2004 Eclipse Press Release: Home Run! AIG To Underwrite Insurance For Eclipse 500

http://www.eclipseaviation.com/company/news/news.php?c=3&id=668

From AvWeb a nice summary of Eclipse Certification, SCR, and Congressional look into the FAA's dealing with Eclipse: Fresh Hell for Eclipse: A Poster Child for FAA Mismanagement

http://www.avweb.com/blogs/insider/A...eFreshHellforEclipse_198819-1.html

If I put the two together, I think there is a better than 50/50 chance that AIG/Insurers decided to cancel insurance for the EA500 (at least for part 135 passenger service), forcing DayJet to stop all ops including leaving stranded passengers and not flying them on the return leg of the round trip.

I know it is speculation on my part, but sind Ed I. had stated that DayJet had more than enough money to run ops through the ende of the year with their reduced fleet, it is the simplest explanation.

We shall see.



Killer Fleet: E190, 737-900ER, 777-300ER
User currently offlineLowrider From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 3220 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 6637 times:



Quoting Falcon flyer (Reply 5):
Fractionals involve aircraft ownership under FAR 91, or more precisely 91K.

I am very well aware of this, but if you look at the day to day operations, I would bet they look more like a fractional than a typical OD 135 op. The only other ops I can think of that look similar are XO Jet and Travel Management.



Proud OOTSK member
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5803 posts, RR: 15
Reply 8, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 6576 times:



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 1):
I was never very optimistic about this business model...are there any competitors still in business and how are they doing?

Isn't Miwok Airways starting up at Santa Monica with a similiar model only using Cirrus SR22s.
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...-airbox6-2008sep06,0,1498034.story
http://www.flymiwok.com/



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineAFKL From Netherlands, joined Feb 2008, 219 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5921 times:

How will this have an effect upon Eclipse? How many E500's were delivered to them, and how many were still on order?

Thank you,

ALLARD.



ALLARD. First flight: KLM DC-10, LLW - AMS.
User currently offlineMSPflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 111 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5590 times:



Quoting AFKL (Reply 9):
How many E500's were delivered to them, and how many were still on order?

The company also sold or leased out 16 of the 28 Eclipse 500s it owned. So they had 12 of them after they leased or sold the Eclipse 500s. Dayjet had 1400 Eclipse 500s on order.


User currently offlineAFKL From Netherlands, joined Feb 2008, 219 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5475 times:



Quoting MSPflyer (Reply 10):
The company also sold or leased out 16 of the 28 Eclipse 500s it owned. So they had 12 of them after they leased or sold the Eclipse 500s. Dayjet had 1400 Eclipse 500s on order.

Had a previous deposit already been paid to Eclipse for the order of these aircraft, or is Eclipse now left with the loss of more than 1372 orders... just like that?

Does this give anyone the opportunity to take-over these orders from DayJet for a better price?

Thanks,
ALLARD.



ALLARD. First flight: KLM DC-10, LLW - AMS.
User currently offlineDeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5085 times:

Damn shame, all of it. Sad for Gainesville too, that's a cool town and a cool airport, sad to see it go.

Then again, the explanation of AIG having been their underwriter, makes alot of sense as to maybe why they've had to fold.

They did want some awfly high minimums for pilot hiring.

DeltaGuy


User currently offlineHighflier92660 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 674 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4891 times:

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/sep/20/bz-sun-sets-on-dayjet/

Challenged by a optimistic business model and a recessionary financial climate, Dayjet has ceased operations. In addition, questions over the certification of of the Eclipse 500 have surfaced.

http://www.lawyersandsettlements.com...safe-aircraft-jet-eclipse-500.html

I've been fascinated with both parts of this story. Vern Raburn is occasionally called a visionary, which is a label sometimes given to genius personalities who think big thoughts but don't calculate all the myriad steps (and problems) enroute to realization. Somewhere, Vern Raburn must have concluded that if Henry Ford could keep the price down making an assembly line full of Model T's, he could make a very light jet affordable if he made thousands of VLJs per year. Airspace and airport constraints aside that's fabulous, but from what I have read about Eclipse's little plant they had a long way to go in size and assembly efficiency.

As for DayJet, you have to wonder from the start if the Eclipse's limited range, performance (.64 Mach) and potential revenue (3 passengers) could possible offset the tremendous cost of running such a multi-station company. Clearly it was an experimental niche between fractional jet ownership and chartering a FBO's King Air 200 with a crew. Perhaps in a better business environment it would have done better.


User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13043 posts, RR: 100
Reply 14, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4577 times:
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Quoting Baron95 (Reply 6):
If I put the two together, I think there is a better than 50/50 chance that AIG/Insurers decided to cancel insurance for the EA500 (at least for part 135 passenger service), forcing DayJet to stop all ops including leaving stranded passengers and not flying them on the return leg of the round trip.

Excellent post and why I read a.net. While I had read about AIG insuring the EA500's... it completely left my mind. With AIG's recent troubles, it wouldn't surprise me to see the insurance rules suddenly changed (maybe instead of a cancellation a huge rate hike?).

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 8):
Isn't Miwok Airways starting up at Santa Monica with a similiar model only using Cirrus SR22s

In a way, Miwok has a more thought out model. They're far shorter ranged flying a much more economical aircraft. Dare I say it... also a much more proven aircraft. Miwok is also flying in a region where freeway congestion provides a greater time benefit for a shorter flight distance.

I think Pogo has the right idea... but with all the Eclipse 500 'concerns,' is it the right airframe? With the current pricing, the Phenom 100 has an opportunity now.

Quoting AFKL (Reply 11):
Does this give anyone the opportunity to take-over these orders from DayJet for a better price?

Unlikely. As the volume leader and an early buyer, Dayjet would have been receiving the best deal. I do wonder at the fact they leased out/sold more of the Eclipse 500's than they were operating!

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineNWASkyking From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 73 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4429 times:

This is going to hurt eclipse.


Safe
User currently offlineDw747400 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 1260 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4121 times:



Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 14):
I think Pogo has the right idea... but with all the Eclipse 500 'concerns,' is it the right airframe? With the current pricing, the Phenom 100 has an opportunity now.

At first, Pogo was planning to use the Adam A700, then switched to the EA500 when they realized what virtually everyone else already knew--the A700 was a fuel-hungry, low speed, high cost option amongst several other aircraft. In addition, the weakeness of Adam Aircraft itself was beginning to become clear at the time.

In short, Crandall sure has a knack for picking the wrong plane.



CFI--Certfied Freakin Idiot
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5803 posts, RR: 15
Reply 17, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3901 times:



Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 14):
In a way, Miwok has a more thought out model. They're far shorter ranged flying a much more economical aircraft. Dare I say it... also a much more proven aircraft. Miwok is also flying in a region where freeway congestion provides a greater time benefit for a shorter flight distance.

I am fascinated by Miwok's use of social networks.

Pax try to find people to share the flight using Facebook. Should be interesting to watch.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineGroundeffect From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3641 times:

Folks, I'm Gad Barnea from Miwok Airways... just wanted to say that this is a very sad day for the on-demand community. DayJet has created a lot of enthusiasm for on-demand flying and has been a tireless champion for all of us trying to make on-demand air travel a more affordable reality. They made some significant business model and technological innovations and, I for one, am very saddened to see them close shop, but mostly, my thoughts and prayers are with their employees and their families at this time.

As a side note (thx FatFlyer & Lightsaber..), I want to underscore the fact that there are substantial diffs between our model and DayJet's or anyone else's, beyond our use of social networking. We are really a hybrid of an air-charter/air-taxi and an airline, here's why:
We are not an air-charter because:
* Our economic unit is the seat-mile (not the airplane, not just "per-seat")
* Our price-point is affordable to anyone (at economy-class ticket prices or less)
* Our pricing is based on demand-curves (not a flat hourly rate)
* Our service area is ultra-short-haul, limited by market demand (not aircraft capabilities/range)
We are not an airline, because:
* We require little capital to be consistently profitable
* We do not have pre-set routes & schedules (we are truly on-demand)
* We can serve any general-aviation airport as well as large airports
* We almost never lose money on a flight.

Our booking system does not require time-windows, but instead crunches actual demand-curve data (like the airlines do) and our pricing algorithms ensure that there are several backstops in place so that our operators almost always have a profitable flight. It is all about sustainable, consistent profits for us.

I'm posting these details about our model just hoping to keep your faith in the on-demand vision alive. We've worked hard to try to come up with a solid business model and we believe that the on-demand air-travel industry will be a high-growth, sustainable and profitable industry, avoiding the kind of financial tail-spin the airlines have to endure. It can be done.

Thanks again, and feel free to contact us through here or our web site: www.flymiwok.com

Have an awesome weekend!

Gad Barnea - Miwok Airways


User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5803 posts, RR: 15
Reply 19, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3407 times:

Thanks for the info Gad, good luck with the startup.

I know you are limiting your geographic market right now but I hope you'll be looking a little further out soon, if it makes sense.

I know a lot of the business travellers here in Fresno (BFL also) get frustrated about the limited service and also have to resort to driving to meetings.

The loss of XJET flights from FAT to LGB, ONT, and SAN is being felt by the business travellers needing only 1 day in the south. The thought of going through LAX doesn't work for many.

But in the meantime, again good luck.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineGroundeffect From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2918 times:

We certainly have plans to expand from our initial service area and we have a strategy for expansion that will allow us to expand profitably (& cautiously) - eventually nation-wide.. - but we're going to take our time. In fact, since the LAT article came out (which was also re-published in the Sac Bee) we've received dozens of requests from folks all over CA, NV and AZ - there's a ton of demand at SBA which is just outside our initial service area.. As tempting as it is to expand early (i.e. before we stabilize a market financially) we will not do it until the core SoCal market is stable. Our number #1 concern is profitability and financial stability. If we learned something from Southwest Airlines, it is the importance of discipline and a ruthless focus on profitability.

After SoCal, we'll add NorCal (approx. STS-MHR-MOD-MRY) in Q1 '09, and central-CA incl. FAT & BFL will probably be added in Q2 '09

Thanks again!..

Gad Barnea -- Miwok Airways


User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5803 posts, RR: 15
Reply 21, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2764 times:

Sounds good Gad,

I've done a lot of consulting outside the aviation industry (over 20 years of consulting after time in a corporate career) and seen too many companies get tempted by growth. Usually ego gets in the way of smart decisions.

Stick to the fundamentals, focus on profits, and grow (or shrink) when and where appropriate. Its why I also like following Allegiant.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineGroundeffect From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 2633 times:

Right - Allegiant is another great example and their move at Phoenix-Mesa recently is nothing short of brilliant IMO.. We often say, at Miwok, that the days of the legacy airline who tries to be everything to anyone using the same business model are over. It does not and cannot work. (which is why it only "works" with frequent bailouts or government subsidies).

The future of air travel is in highly specialized business models that do one thing and do it well, Southwest, Allegient, and (we'd like to believe) Miwok Airways (in the on-demand, ultra-short-haul model) are example of this new direction (even though SWA has been leading the pack admirably for 37 yrs).

Cheers - Gad


User currently offlineFalcon flyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1323 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2480 times:



Quoting Lowrider (Reply 7):
I am very well aware of this, but if you look at the day to day operations, I would bet they look more like a fractional than a typical OD 135 op. The only other ops I can think of that look similar are XO Jet and Travel Management.

Maybe I'm missing something but isn't Travel Management purely an on-demand 135 charter operator ?



My definition of cool ? Not trying so hard to be cool.
User currently offlineBaron95 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1335 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2187 times:

Quoting AFKL (Reply 11):
Does this give anyone the opportunity to take-over these orders from DayJet for a better price?

AFKL, even before ceasing operations, DayJet had earlier this year "returned" to Eclipse for resale about half the 28 airplanes they have taken delivery of. In addition, there are about 70 Eclipse 500 and positions for sale on Controller at an average price of about $1.5M - over half are for aircraft already delivered. Furthermore, there are 200-300 cancelled orders from Eclipse due to their latest price increase to $2.15M/plane - these depositors are waiting for their refunds - and Eclipse reports that some 100 depositors switched their orders to the E400 single-engine-jet.

Put all of this together, and there is a glut of EA500 in the market. None of those planes has as much as a pannel-mounted GPS, coupled autopilot or known-icing capability.

The tought of ANYONE stepping in to pick up EA500 planes or open positions is a pipe dream. It is just not going to happen.

Eclipse themselves say they need another 0.5B dollars (that is right half a billion) to cover anticipated losses in 08 and 09 before they can break even. I'd be very very very surprised if they have taken ANY new orders for the plane at the $2.15M price. There is really no demand for this plane in its incomplete state, no demand for it even if it is complete at the $2.15M price and little chance that Eclipse can provide a competitive plane with integrated avionics that approach the level of a C172 G-1000 or SR22 Perspective.

There only hope now is their cockmanie Russian play with some convoluted funding to move production to Russia and a clean sheet avionics E400 design that is several years out.

They just have soo many strikes against them - their execution has been dismal.

Having said that, I hope they miraculously pull through - we don't need another expectacular GA startup failure to show the world how "sick" this industry is.

[Edited 2008-09-21 13:36:49]


Killer Fleet: E190, 737-900ER, 777-300ER
25 Lowrider : I am pretty sure they will also do part 91 management of privately owned Beechjets and Hawkers as well, similar to ExecJet at LUK.
26 Lightsaber : Thank you for your input on Miwok. One of the reason's I'm more optimistic about your model is that I know individuals considering it. Dayjet... was
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