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AA To Start JFK-GIG  
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33086 posts, RR: 71
Posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 7797 times:

American Airlines will operate seasonal service between New York City and Rio de Janeiro, operating between 19DEC08 and 27FEB09.

AA 977 JFK 2125-0925 763 xMoThSa
AA 974 GIG 2205-0600 763 xTuFrSu

It will replace the daily one-stop 772 service, which resumes on 01MAR09.

It operates on frequencies that have been granted by Brazil's ANAC for a limited time, and does not change other schedules.

This winter, AA's Brazil schedule will peak at 69 weekly flights.

DFW: 7w 772

JFK-GRU: 7w 772
JFK-GIG: 4w 763

MIA-CNF: 4w 763
MIA-GIG: 12w 763
MIA-GRU: 21w 772 + 7w 763
MIA-REC/SSA: 7w 763


a.
35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11451 posts, RR: 58
Reply 1, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 7753 times:
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Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
American Airlines will operate seasonal service between New York City and Rio de Janeiro, operating between 19DEC08 and 27FEB09.

AA 977 JFK 2125-0925 763 xMoThSa
AA 974 GIG 2205-0600 763 xTuFrSu

It will replace the daily one-stop 772 service, which resumes on 01MAR09.

Thanks for the news MAH4546.
AA will have a better schedule from JFK to GIG and they put flights on 3 of the 4 days TAM operates (We, Friday and Sunday) and will offer a better Sunday night departure.
Funny that AA decision was made just in response to TAM decision to serve GIG-JFK.

Interesting to note that for the first time in more than 8 years, during a little more than 2 months there will be no traffic between Rio and Sao Paulo from any long haul airline as BA, AA, UA and CO decided to begin dedicated services to GIG (BA year-round).
LA will be, at least for a while, the only international airline flying this route (without traffic rights, of course)

And a question, what about DFW passengers (as well as people booked on JFK on other days where GIG service is not available) ?



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33086 posts, RR: 71
Reply 2, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 7752 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 1):
And a question, what about DFW passengers (as well as people booked on JFK on other days where GIG service is not available) ?

Re-routed via Miami.



a.
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3713 posts, RR: 19
Reply 3, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 7554 times:

It's interesting that AA will JFK-GIG exactly on the dates there will be no tag-on flight waiting for CO's EWR-GRU.

User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 4, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 7500 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
AA 977 JFK 2125-0925 763 xMoThSa
AA 974 GIG 2205-0600 763 xTuFrSu

This is premium schedule which shows AA is serious about this route. It seems a direct reaction to TAM.

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
This winter, AA's Brazil schedule will peak at 69 weekly flights.

DFW: 7w 772

JFK-GRU: 7w 772
JFK-GIG: 4w 763

MIA-CNF: 4w 763
MIA-GIG: 12w 763
MIA-GRU: 21w 772 + 7w 763
MIA-REC/SSA: 7w 763

This is just amazing. After the flood of European airlines in Brazil we now have the same situation with US carries. This is fantastic news: more capacity, more competition, more availability of fares, better product, more choices.

Also worth noting AA showdown of B777s in GRU! What other country AA supplies more weekly seats? UK?

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 1):
Funny that AA decision was made just in response to TAM decision to serve GIG-JFK.

They waited until "the first stone is thrown"...

Plenty of good news for GIG, in a matter of months GIG-LIM, GIG-MIA, GIG-IAH, GIG-LHR, GIG-JFK (two services)...

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 1):
Interesting to note that for the first time in more than 8 years, during a little more than 2 months there will be no traffic between Rio and Sao Paulo from any long haul airline as BA, AA, UA and CO decided to begin dedicated services to GIG (BA year-round).

I think CO will continue operating GRU-GIG in the days it does not operate IAH-GIG, ie 4 days a week.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 1):
LA will be, at least for a while, the only international airline flying this route (without traffic rights, of course)

It is high time for LA GIG-SCL B767 nonstop.


User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 7434 times:

this was a given after CO announced IAH-GIG.

It also reinforces the demand to GIG so that AA and CO have a better chance of winning the next rounds of new routes against new entrants when Rio can be added.

No real response from AA on DL's LAX-GRU appl so perhaps DL will get the LAX-GRU and AA the JFK-GIG


User currently offlineNeo From Brazil, joined Jan 2001, 672 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 7414 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 4):
It is high time for LA GIG-SCL B767 nonstop

And with better schedule for christ sake!!!

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 1):
Funny that AA decision was made just in response to TAM decision to serve GIG-JFK.



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 4):
This is premium schedule which shows AA is serious about this route. It seems a direct reaction to TAM.



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 4):
They waited until "the first stone is thrown"..

Nevertheless AA service is for merely 2 months and JJ is year around and expected to go daily by Mar or Apr09. I think AA is a bit late on JFK-GIG nonstop and could have managed to step into this market a couple years ago. They will have to wait until July09 to bid for extra GIG frequencies.. and if granted, commence year around service by Winter 09/10.

JJ has a year maybe to ahead in the route, plus connections. Let's see how it develops..

Rgs,

Neo


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11451 posts, RR: 58
Reply 7, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 7299 times:
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Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 4):
It is high time for LA GIG-SCL B767 nonstop.

Yes Hardi, the LA750 flight gets a good portion of cargo from GIG. I do believe LA can fly at least 2x daily to GIG (and why not continue one to Europe). LA network from Chile to Europe is limited to MAD (non-stop service)

Quoting Neo (Reply 6):
Nevertheless AA service is for merely 2 months and JJ is year around and expected to go daily by Mar or Apr09. I think AA is a bit late on JFK-GIG nonstop and could have managed to step into this market a couple years ago. They will have to wait until July09 to bid for extra GIG frequencies.. and if granted, commence year around service by Winter 09/10.

Neo, 7 frequencies will be available effective June 01st which means DOT will probably begin to receive applications shortly (i don't have this info, but may be one of the US members can clarify). Another 7 frequencies will be available effective Oct 01, 2009 and should be decided around the first or second quarter of 2009.
I believe CO will apply for 3 to 4 IAH-GIG, AA and DL will both apply for 3x/4x JFK-GIG and some extra flights to FOR/CNF. Would be a huge dispute if Spirit take part, and probably we will see up to 25 weekly requests.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 4):
This is premium schedule which shows AA is serious about this route. It seems a direct reaction to TAM.

I should say that AA will offer a better product considering TAM 763. And they have during IATA winter an average of 3,000 customers flying to GIG which means, they will try to hold their market-share. TAM probably will announce the A332 to GIG soon (for March/09), but we even can expect that they change their plans to have a better product.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 4):
I think CO will continue operating GRU-GIG in the days it does not operate IAH-GIG, ie 4 days a week.

Thanks, you're correct.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 5):
this was a given after CO announced IAH-GIG.

In fact could be using the 250 non-regular flights that the bilateral allows. Up to now, not considering previous requests (which i don't know if was accommodated as extra flights by ANAC) we got about 70 non-regular flights after the bilateral has been announced.
In July 2010, this number will go up to 500 flights (not clear if it's per season or annual)



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 7171 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 7):
Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 5):
this was a given after CO announced IAH-GIG.

In fact could be using the 250 non-regular flights that the bilateral allows. Up to now, not considering previous requests (which i don't know if was accommodated as extra flights by ANAC) we got about 70 non-regular flights after the bilateral has been announced.
In July 2010, this number will go up to 500 flights (not clear if it's per season or annual)

I'm sure AA will use the extra frequencies just as CO is apparently doing. Up to this point, AA has used as many of the xtra frequencies as it could. Since the bilateral is not growing for regular flights for GRU and limited for GIG, it puts more pressure on obtaining extra flights. In reality, alot of these potential extra flights don't make sense year round but for 4 months of the year, they certainly do. In some ways, the Brazilian gov't is giving the US carriers what they want - more flights - without risking yield erosion during the off-peak periods.

We could probably come up with a whole thread about potential routes or additions that could exist based on just the seasonal increase in flights. If the 500 extra flights is a yearly number, it allows about 4 extra flights per day during the 4 month peak season. If it is a seasonal number, then the number of flights is obviously double that.

Adding extra flights during the Dec-Feb time frame is a no brainer because US carriers can certainly not generate as much revenue to Europe with an aircraft as they can to S. America.

[Edited 2008-09-20 10:13:05]

User currently offline28L28L From Australia, joined Nov 2005, 459 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 6366 times:

How long has it been since AA last flew JFK-GIG nonstop?

User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 10, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 6266 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 7):
Yes Hardi, the LA750 flight gets a good portion of cargo from GIG. I do believe LA can fly at least 2x daily to GIG (and why not continue one to Europe). LA network from Chile to Europe is limited to MAD (non-stop service)

LA SCL-GIG-FRA would be a total winner, especially with LA new business class product on their B767.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 7):
I should say that AA will offer a better product considering TAM 763. And they have during IATA winter an average of 3,000 customers flying to GIG which means, they will try to hold their market-share

AA will have a better product and as you said correctly AA will keep its regular customers. The problem is that after the 9-week AA flight will operate TAM will then most probably capture AA customers.


User currently offlineUPPERDECKFAN From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 992 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 6110 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 4):
What other country AA supplies more weekly seats?

I'd say Mexico is 1st



744,742,741,772,773,762,732,735,738,752,727,717,DC10,DC9,M82,M87,319,320,321,343,346,L1011,CRJ2,CRJ9,E190,ATR42,DSH8,
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11451 posts, RR: 58
Reply 12, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 4 days ago) and read 5910 times:
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Quoting 28L28L (Reply 9):
How long has it been since AA last flew JFK-GIG nonstop?

Since Oct 2001.

Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Reply 11):
I'd say Mexico is 1st

And UK comes second with at least 10 daily services, mostly 772.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 8):
We could probably come up with a whole thread about potential routes or additions that could exist based on just the seasonal increase in flights. If the 500 extra flights is a yearly number, it allows about 4 extra flights per day during the 4 month peak
season. If it is a seasonal number, then the number of flights is obviously double that.

Correct, but we shall see a huge fight for the June/09 regular frequencies also. I do believe it's a matter of yearly flights (and not seasonal). I'm checking this with Anac.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 8):
Adding extra flights during the Dec-Feb time frame is a no brainer because US carriers can certainly not generate as much revenue to Europe with an aircraft as they can to S. America.

And a smart use of their resources.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently onlineAA767400 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 2389 posts, RR: 26
Reply 13, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 4 days ago) and read 5898 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 10):
The problem is that after the 9-week AA flight will operate TAM will then most probably capture AA customers.

Apparently AA will start the route as seasonal, but if they can get additional frequencies, they want to operate it year round. Not daily, but year round.



"The low fares airline."
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25700 posts, RR: 22
Reply 14, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 4 days ago) and read 5894 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 4):
This is just amazing. After the flood of European airlines in Brazil we now have the same situation with US carries. This is fantastic news: more capacity, more competition, more availability of fares, better product, more choices.

But is it good for the airlines? It's my impression that the "flood" of European service to Brazil has resulted in overcapacity and some low fares that may not be very profitable. I have noted quite a few sale fares from Europe to Brazil over the past year or so that weren't common previously. That would seem to indicate that supply exceeds demand.


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11451 posts, RR: 58
Reply 15, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 5840 times:
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Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 14):
But is it good for the airlines? It's my impression that the "flood" of European service to Brazil has resulted in overcapacity and some low fares that may not be very profitable. I have noted quite a few sale fares from Europe to Brazil over the past year or so that weren't common previously. That would seem to indicate that supply exceeds demand.

In fact fares from US to Brazil are on a very high level nowadays. Pay US$ 2,000 for a deep discount Y ticket GIG-MIA is out of mind as i can buy for US$ 2,900 a Business Class R/T ticket to Europe.
The problem with Europe is that, we have at least 10 competitors trying to increase services at the same time (LH, AZ, AF, KL, IB, TP, TAM, RG, CA and BA) in 7 different markets and with huge increases: LH with 30-40% (upgrade from MUC and dedicated service to EZE) AF with 25-30% (2nd service to GIG and Sao Paulo upgrade to 77W), IB at least 20% with new frequencies, TAP with 27% adding new frequencies and the new service to CNF, AZ with 2 more frequencies, RG with 5 new daily flights, TAM with new service to MAD.
But seems that last month was at least 15 to 20% better than August 2007 in terms of yields, and loads to Europe begin to recover.

Looking for US-Brazil, we only have 5 players increasing services (AA, UA, DL, TAM and CO) basically in 6 markets, and some additions like UA are limited (upgrade to 77W). New services are limited to 6 new daily flights, or, in the end, a 30% additional seat offer.

Of course fares will go down, but not drastically like Europe as the US$ x BRL is in average about 20% less expensive than in 2007.

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 13):
Apparently AA will start the route as seasonal, but if they can get additional frequencies, they want to operate it year round. Not daily, but year round.

We soon will know as the next 7 frequencies will be available to begin flights as of June 1st 2009. I believe DOT will begin to receive applications during the next months.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4556 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 5601 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 10):
LA SCL-GIG-FRA would be a total winner, especially with LA new business class product on their B767.

Interesting point ! This route may work better than LA SCL-MAD-FRA, considering the existence of traffic rights between Brazil and Europe as Pluna utilized in the past into: PU MVD-GIG-MAD.
Is LX SCL-GRU-ZRH also regulated in the same commercial agreement ? I mean: do the traffic rights into Brazil - Europe involve non South American airlines ?

Regards.



"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
User currently offlineBaron95 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1335 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 5575 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
American Airlines will operate seasonal service between New York City and Rio de Janeiro, operating between 19DEC08 and 27FEB09.

AA 977 JFK 2125-0925 763 xMoThSa
AA 974 GIG 2205-0600 763 xTuFrSu

I checked the AA reservation system, I think you have the days of the week reversed. Also, it appears that there are no fares loaded yet.

Can anyone confirm when the fares are loaded for booking?



Killer Fleet: E190, 737-900ER, 777-300ER
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11451 posts, RR: 58
Reply 18, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5470 times:
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Quoting Baron95 (Reply 17):
I checked the AA reservation system, I think you have the days of the week reversed. Also, it appears that there are no fares loaded yet.

Baron, it seems to be correct. AA977 JFK-GIG and AA974 GIG-JFK, the "x" means except.

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 16):
Interesting point ! This route may work better than LA SCL-MAD-FRA, considering the existence of traffic rights between Brazil and Europe as Pluna utilized in the past into: PU MVD-GIG-MAD

I always defend such services, as an outstanding opportunity for PU, AR and LA to access new markets in Europe (and US) using stops at GIG, BSB, CNF, SSA, REC and FOR. I don't know why they never tried this. A 763 LA service SCL-GIG-LHR or SCL-GIG-FRA would be a real winner considering LHR is a very strong OneWorld Hub and there's no service to Frankfurt from Rio, which would be very good given some extra LA demand to FRA from SCL.
AR could venture on EZE-BSB-MIA (given CNF is now with AA regular service). In the other hand, TAP is looking to reach EZE and it could be non-stop or with a one-stop service thru Brazil.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11451 posts, RR: 58
Reply 19, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5294 times:
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Quoting Baron95 (Reply 17):
Can anyone confirm when the fares are loaded for booking?

Baron, as requested, Fares uploaded !  Smile



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineBaron95 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1335 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 5184 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 18):
Baron, it seems to be correct. AA977 JFK-GIG and AA974 GIG-JFK, the "x" means except

Sillly me  Wink

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 19):
Baron, as requested, Fares uploaded !

Thank you.



Killer Fleet: E190, 737-900ER, 777-300ER
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 21, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 2 days ago) and read 5006 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
This winter, AA's Brazil schedule will peak at 69 weekly flights.

DFW: 7w 772

JFK-GRU: 7w 772
JFK-GIG: 4w 763

MIA-CNF: 4w 763
MIA-GIG: 12w 763
MIA-GRU: 21w 772 + 7w 763
MIA-REC/SSA: 7w 763

AA is doing a campaign in Brazil's no. 1 newspaper Folha de Sao Paulo advertising its new business class products. Considering that AA will operate 5 daily B772 in GRU it is the right time to AA promote its new product:

http://www.theflagshipexperience.com/default_pt.html

Any idea when the new seats will become availble in the B767s?

Rgs,


User currently offlineAA787 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 611 posts, RR: 12
Reply 22, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4973 times:

It was installed on the 763 first.


ET In NYC
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11451 posts, RR: 58
Reply 23, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4953 times:
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Quoting AA787 (Reply 23):
It was installed on the 763 first.

Good, so it seems i can be lucky flying JFK-GIG and get the updated product ?!



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33086 posts, RR: 71
Reply 24, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4923 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 22):

Any idea when the new seats will become availble in the B767s?

The installation on the 763 fleet was completed last spring; and on the 772 fleet it was completed just recently.

Next up is the 752s. Eighteen of them will get the new product starting next year.



a.
25 ContinentalEWR : AA operated daily 763 service JFK-GIG for a while before 9/11. CO also flew EWR-GIG nonstop with 762's. Both routes axed.
26 LipeGIG : Now is back, one of the big absences on US-Brazil market
27 Incitatus : I was a very frequent traveler on AA JFK-GIG at the time AA972/973. The flight was often half full, even after Varig stopped flying the route, and ev
28 Baron95 : The fares are absolutely ridiculous on the new JFK-GIG non-stops - $2,000 round trip even though the cabin shows plenty of seats (more than 50% availa
29 Hardiwv : Perhaps AA will sell the promotional tickets in the Brazilian market instead. TAM fares for MCO are also high. I noticed that fares Europe-Brazil hav
30 LipeGIG : The problem is that: AA is selling MIA-GIG with such crazy prices (as well as TAM), and i doubt they will just create a new service with low fares. B
31 NewYorkCityBoi : I checked on aa website and look like tag on GRU-GIG on 777 (flight from JFK) still go daily
32 Hardiwv : If AA is selling well JFK-GIG there is no reason to discount the route, and dont forget that the flight will operate during the weeks of the busiest
33 LipeGIG : Seems to be performing well, at least for the December flights, mostly flights are 30 to 35% on Business in advance bookings, even better than flight
34 Hardiwv : Therefore no need for discount! The flight will only be online for limited time and 3 weekly so I honestly dont think we could expect any promotion o
35 LipeGIG : Agreed, and considering that Business market will fill easily 25% to 30% of the plane during the last 2 weeks previous to each flight, i do believe A
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