777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5205 posts, RR: 4 Posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 9859 times:
Had to happen sooner or later after yesterdays incident, what about Lufthansa are they dropping out before the Oct 26 date? BA were opertaing 6 weekly nonstop 777 from LHR to Islamabad.
Luv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 11957 posts, RR: 51 Reply 2, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 9461 times:
Can you really blame them. It is a very violent country right now and myself I do not see that changing anytime soon. As a company you have the safety of the aircraft to think of as well as crew members.
DTWAGENT From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1283 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (4 years 8 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 7925 times:
Question. What does a airline do to protect its staff, crew, and aircraft in a country that is so violent? Besides canceling all their flights to that country..
AFGMEL From Australia, joined Jul 2007, 734 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (4 years 8 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 7810 times:
Quoting DTWAGENT (Reply 5): What does a airline do to protect its staff, crew, and aircraft in a country that is so violent? Besides canceling all their flights to that country..
Often the crews don't even get off and they fly to the nearest safe place for changeover. The airlines are very careful about where their crews stay. Apart from the human factor, it doesn't reflect well on the company if the crew are hurt.
Disclaimer : This is a SWAG. BA probably received information about credible threats to their metal.
Tonystan From Ireland, joined Jan 2006, 1177 posts, RR: 2 Reply 8, posted (4 years 8 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 7226 times:
Quoting AFGMEL (Reply 7):
Disclaimer : This is a SWAG. BA probably received information about credible threats to their metal.
Very much a Swag, you will find it had a lot more with crew refusing to operate the flights. I am sure the flight will return soon but hopefully it will operate via somewhere in the ME where the crew will slip!
Sq_ek_freak From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2000, 1585 posts, RR: 21 Reply 9, posted (4 years 8 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 7034 times:
Quoting Tonystan (Reply 8): Very much a Swag, you will find it had a lot more with crew refusing to operate the flights. I am sure the flight will return soon but hopefully it will operate via somewhere in the ME where the crew will slip!
I agree, I hear that BA have similar problems crewing their Saudi Arabia flights.
Pellegrine From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1845 posts, RR: 8 Reply 10, posted (4 years 8 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6335 times:
Quoting Tonystan (Reply 8): Very much a Swag, you will find it had a lot more with crew refusing to operate the flights
Could BA (and other airlines) simply send 2 crews, one flying positive space out, the other back??? The crew that just worked the flight down would be passengers on the way back (would they even have to get off the plane?). I know this wouldn't be economically feasible unless the flight's revenue was appropriately high. Is this type of thing in FAs contracts, where would they sit? Y? I do know pilots flying positive space have to sit J or F depending on the airline.
Lambert747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 14, posted (4 years 8 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6083 times:
Quoting 777way (Thread starter): Had to happen sooner or later after yesterdays incident, what about Lufthansa are they dropping out before the Oct 26 date? BA were opertaing 6 weekly nonstop 777 from LHR to Islamabad.
I can remember in the past the routing was LGW-MAN-ISB with the 747-400 circa 1995.
Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 10):
Could BA (and other airlines) simply send 2 crews, one flying positive space out, the other back??? The crew that just worked the flight down would be passengers on the way back (would they even have to get off the plane?). I know this wouldn't be economically feasible unless the flight's revenue was appropriately high. Is this type of thing in FAs contracts, where would they sit? Y? I do know pilots flying positive space have to sit J or F depending on the airline
Pakistan is a very unstable market for anyone from the Western World. Most importantly British and American nationals.
SL1200MK2 From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 31 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (4 years 8 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 6029 times:
"Understatement of the day... Big grin"
My oh my do I feel silly and "American" now! I have been studying for my private written exam and really coop myself up. Either way, I should really stay on top, even over the weekends. Thanks for the reply
Pellegrine From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1845 posts, RR: 8 Reply 17, posted (4 years 8 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 6008 times:
Quoting Lambert747 (Reply 14): Pakistan is a very unstable market for anyone from the Western World. Most importantly British and American nationals.
Unstable in that bombs go off from time to time? Or unstable demand for seats on airplanes? I 've known about the bombs part...int'l affairs... There's a substantial Pakistani community in the UK, of appropriate wealth, to support a few UK-Pakistan flights. Well, the same is true of the KSA, but BA did pull out because of a specific threat. BA is a flag carrier in spirit after all. Maybe the same is true of Pakistan, or maybe they're just not waiting for a specific threat.
Lambert747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 18, posted (4 years 8 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 5985 times:
Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 17):
Unstable in that bombs go off from time to time? Or unstable demand for seats on airplanes?
Unstable from and for the safety standpoint of British nationals, inclusive of in-flight crews.
Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 17): There's a substantial Pakistani community in the UK, of appropriate wealth, to support a few UK-Pakistan flights.
Hence the fact that PK does well on the UK to Pakistan. Pakistan is not a market like India which has a much more profound draw due to the IT sector, tourism, and trade standpoint. Pakistan also does not claim the yields that have drawn many airlines in recent years to the Indian market. Of course both Pakistan and India can claim an incredible amount of VFR traffic from North America and the UK.
N104UA From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 889 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (4 years 8 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 5923 times:
I know that DL has a problem with their crews in Northern Africa like Laos. I know a DL pilot and he said that DL crews are in armored vans from the airport to the hotel and are not allowed to leave the hotel. Does BA do the same in ISB?
"Learn the rules, so you know how to break them properly." -H.H. The Dalai Lama
Lambert747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 20, posted (4 years 8 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 5872 times:
Quoting N104UA (Reply 19): I know that DL has a problem with their crews in Northern Africa like Laos. I know a DL pilot and he said that DL crews are in armored vans from the airport to the hotel and are not allowed to leave the hotel.
One of the key factors, if not the key factor that CO pulled their intention to serve LOS was the safety of crews as it was a major problem at that time and will more than likely continue to be for a good many years to come.
Pellegrine From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1845 posts, RR: 8 Reply 22, posted (4 years 8 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5829 times:
Quoting N104UA (Reply 19): I know that DL has a problem with their crews in Northern Africa like Laos. I know a DL pilot and he said that DL crews are in armored vans from the airport to the hotel and are not allowed to leave the hotel.
I can't think of a Northern African country that is that dangerous. Maybe you're thinking of a different area, Laos is in SE Asia btw.
BA will be back, is this suspension only until 9/29 as I have seen reported? Anyone know?
ScrubbsYWG From Canada, joined Mar 2007, 1486 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (4 years 8 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5792 times:
Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 22): I can't think of a Northern African country that is that dangerous. Maybe you're thinking of a different area, Laos is in SE Asia btw.
Believe he means Lagos, and simply forgot the g which made incidentally made it the name of a country in another part of the world.
MilesDependent From Australia, joined Sep 2001, 838 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (4 years 8 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5608 times:
Quoting ScrubbsYWG (Reply 23): Believe he means Lagos, and simply forgot the g which made incidentally made it the name of a country in another part of the world.
I rate Pakistan as one of most dangerous countries with regular scheduled airline services (ie excluding your Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia etc.). This is because:
* There is a clear and systemic pattern of terrorists targetting 5* hotels in the country;
* There are very few 5* hotels in the country; and
* Recent events have shown that even the best security is not going to stand up against a determined terrorist.
Lagos is indeed a very dangerous city. But more so in terms of street crime and kidnapping. Both of these are more controllable with good security systems, and tight restrictions on crew movments. Most of the large-scale terrorist activity against western interested in Nigeria has been in the SE of the country. So, I would rate Islamabad as a more difficult airline operating environment that Lagos.
On a separate matter, I predict SQ will be pulling out of PK again. Or at the very least not overnighting crews. No way their crews are going to continue to overnight in KHI after this.
25 AirbusA6: There is no way BA can guarantee the safety of their crew, as hotels are a prime target for the terrorists - did BA use the Hilton for it's crew previ
26 RussianJet: Probably does mean Lagos, which is not in North Africa either. Nigeria is in west Africa.
27 KHI747: Very true. I agree 100%.If you recall i have been posting on recent threads how the withdrawal of services of some foreign carriers to Pakistan is im
28 TristarSteve: Can't be done. Positioning crews are on duty and using up hours the same as operating crew. When BA continued operations to the Gulf during the Gulf
29 BAStew: Just had a look at the BA intranet and it just says that Islamabad services are 'under review' and that Sunday and Tuesday (todays) flights have been
30 Tonystan: Indeed, they have been having major problems crewing their Saudi flights over the last 3 years!!!! Perhaps thats why they havent had any in that time
31 Coal: The question is rather what does ANY company do? My company has oil assets in Pakistan and we have a massive security detail. Incidentally, all non-b
32 BAStew: Its just been made official on the BA staff intranet by Tim Steeds, Head of Safety and Security: ' British Airways has suspended operations to and fro
33 Behramjee: I feel that in order to maximize revenue, BA should fly to ISB via DXB with a B 744 six times a week if it can get 5th freedom traffic rights on this
34 Tonystan: This is really quite a broad subject and dependant on a number of factors including the nationality of the airline, the perceived threat to the airli
35 HAWK21M: Could Islamabad be used as a transit station,that way,the crew won't need to get off,unless the concern is in during T/O & Landing. regds MEL
36 BAStew: Transit stops or crews operating ISB as a 'shuttle' are all options BA could have taken. Especially as come winter they will have an excess of crew. T
37 Abrelosojos: = Sadly, Pakistan is also considered a failed state, and I am not surprised to see this happen. More at: http://www.foreignpolicy.com/story/cms.php?s
38 HAWK21M: Whats the BA official statement on this. regds MEL
39 KHI747: Absolutely tragic indeed.The CCTV footage of the truck slamming into the barracade is chilling.I too have been to that hotel a few times and stayed t
40 Tu154m: Any chance that the Gov't there will do something about the situation if/when they see that everyone is leaving???? I mean, when only PIA is left, and
41 MilesDependent: The BA website is short and to the point: Following the bomb attack on the Marriott hotel in Islamabad, Pakistan, British Airways has suspended its o
42 Readytotaxi: No mention here of the ground crew based in Pakistan, what would BA do for their safety?
43 Bongodog1964: In all likelihood BA use a handling agent for all ground services in Pakistan.
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