Corey07850 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2522 posts, RR: 5 Posted (4 years 9 months 15 hours ago) and read 8006 times:
Hey Guys,
Any idea what the reason was? The weather in JFK was good today, and even if it was a mechanical or pax emergency (unless it was something insanely serious), I can't imagine them not continuing the extra 20 minutes to JFK. It was on the ground for a couple hours before heading off.
OrdfrBdl From France, joined Aug 2007, 39 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (4 years 9 months 12 hours ago) and read 7514 times:
Second instance in just a few short weeks of an AF 777 diverting to BDL ... In the context of the NW 97/98 flight dying out I think this serves as a great reminder that BDL exists, is a viable alternative to NYC and BOS if marketed well and that it deserves a good TATL service. I know this is a dream in this day and age, but I mean it.
From CDG to BDL, now posting from between ORD and DPA...
Jetblueguy22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 2053 posts, RR: 1 Reply 4, posted (4 years 9 months 12 hours ago) and read 7477 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW FORUM MODERATOR
Quoting OrdfrBdl (Reply 3): I know this is a dream in this day and age, but I mean it.
I agree! The only issue. I don't think the 777 would ever happen. Sadly. I would love to see some TATL service. That would be great. I am honestly surprised there weren't better numbers on that flight. But hey I am sure Paris or London would be a higher flown route. Can you say "British Airways" But then again you can also say "Yeah right"
Blue
Professor Foltz: You push down on that yoke, the houses get bigger, you pull back on the yoke, the houses get bigger.
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21289 posts, RR: 19 Reply 6, posted (4 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 6705 times:
Quoting Addi375 (Reply 5): was diverted today because GW was in town and airspace was clsoed until airforce 1 departed JFK
Were there other diversions? I imagine that if this caught AF by surprise, it probably caught others by surprise as well...
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
RL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4537 posts, RR: 13 Reply 7, posted (4 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 6564 times:
Quoting OrdfrBdl (Reply 3): In the context of the NW 97/98 flight dying out I think this serves as a great reminder that BDL exists, is a viable alternative to NYC and BOS if marketed well and that it deserves a good TATL service
Maybe from the air. 2+ hrs driving is like saying RIC is a viable alternative to IAD... and heck RIC is closer. The only way BDL will be able to support TATL flights in the 5-10 year timeframe is to a hub on the other end, except for London. The aircraft size is also important. It going to be a long time before BDL see's 777s TATL... if ever...
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
EMB170 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 637 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (4 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6290 times:
When I flew AF CDG-PHL due to airspace congestion and WX we diverted also...but our diversion airport was BWI....were on the ground about 2- 2 1/2 hrs before flying back to PHL.
Can passenger jets fly as fast as my feet do? Let's find out...
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21289 posts, RR: 19 Reply 9, posted (4 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6253 times:
Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 7): The only way BDL will be able to support TATL flights in the 5-10 year timeframe is to a hub on the other end, except for London. The aircraft size is also important.
OTOH, though, if BDL-AMS won't work, I have a hard time believing that anything will. It's too bad. BDL is a nice airport, and Hartford is (I think, anyway) an underrated town.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
OPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 10, posted (4 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6188 times:
Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 6): I imagine that if this caught AF by surprise, it probably caught others by surprise as well...
In general, it shouldn't have, and I'm reasonably certain that they had some fuel to hold for it. However, the problem often is that VIP movements don't run on-time, and if then becomes a timing issue, i.e. their ETA was for after the originally expected time of the VIP movement (thus little or no delay expected) and then the VIP shows up.
RL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4537 posts, RR: 13 Reply 11, posted (4 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6047 times:
Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 9): OTOH, though, if BDL-AMS won't work, I have a hard time believing that anything will. It's too bad. BDL is a nice airport, and Hartford is (I think, anyway) an underrated town.
The only route that I think had more potential was a 757 (DL) BDL-CDG #1 because DL loyalty and FF's at BDL and also a larger hub and potentially more O&D with the larger city and more tourism
as for Hartford.... underrated? People and businesses are leaving the city in droves and crime is at record highs. They cant even get that adrian's landing/front street project to get going to its origional grandure.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
Rampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2871 posts, RR: 7 Reply 12, posted (4 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5712 times:
Quoting Addi375 (Reply 5): was diverted today because GW was in town and airspace was clsoed until airforce 1 departed JFK
Wouldn't it make more sense to fly him into McGuire AFB or SWF and then helicopter to the city, so that AF1 doesn't shut down JFK? Or, why doesn't our president ever use a more modest biz jet on what is essentially a commuter flight from DC? That way, he could fly into HPN, TEB, MMU, ISP, or FRG with a relative minimum of fuss, and then perhaps take a helicopter. Yes, I know, he usually has an entourage. But this is a daytrip, right? Heck, they could bring a few Gulfstreams for the necessaries and still avoid one of the major airports. Just thinking.
Jalflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 9 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (4 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5536 times:
Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 11): as for Hartford.... underrated? People and businesses are leaving the city in droves and crime is at record highs. They cant even get that adrian's landing/front street project to get going to its origional grandure.
have you ever lived in hartford?
yes crime is high but hartford is arguably the insurance capital of the country if not maybe the world. Also BDL is not in hartford so crime is irrelevant, and people might be leaving hartford but to places like west hartford. i would know this because i am one of them.
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21289 posts, RR: 19 Reply 14, posted (4 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5426 times:
Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 10): In general, it shouldn't have, and I'm reasonably certain that they had some fuel to hold for it.
It looks like they held over Rhode Island for quite a while; that's why I'm a bit surprised we didn't see more diversions, as I think you're right that JFK was closed quite a bit later and/or longer than anticipated.
Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 11): People and businesses are leaving the city in droves and crime is at record highs.
Very few Hartforders (is that what y'all call yourselves?) actually live in Hartford, and believe it or not, you can walk around downtown without fearing for your life.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
JohnJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1621 posts, RR: 3 Reply 15, posted (4 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5366 times:
Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 11): as for Hartford.... underrated? People and businesses are leaving the city in droves and crime is at record highs. They cant even get that adrian's landing/front street project to get going to its origional grandure.
To look at the raw statistics on paper, Hartford appears to be a very undesirable place. I live only about 20 miles away from the city, and get there maybe 2 times a year. There's just no real reason to go there. The city itself is only 17.3 square miles in size and the population is only about 125,000 - by comparison, my hometown of Memphis encompasses 279 square miles and has a population of 650,000. But, Bradley Airport has significantly higher O&D numbers than Memphis.
My point is that you can't judge BDL's performance by the city of Hartford. Hartford is basically comprised of government and insurance company offices and inner-city housing; however, there is much wealth just a few miles away from the city limits.
As for the failure of the BDL-AMS flight, from my perspective I think the fares were simply too high for business travelers. I priced out this flight several times for trips to Heathrow, and the prices I got were about $1,000 higher than getting a nonstop out of JFK. This was for midweek travel; the weekend fares were more reasonable.
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21289 posts, RR: 19 Reply 16, posted (4 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5322 times:
Quoting JohnJ (Reply 15): My point is that you can't judge BDL's performance by the city of Hartford. Hartford is basically comprised of government and insurance company offices and inner-city housing; however, there is much wealth just a few miles away from the city limits.
It's not unlike the city of St. Louis, which has something like 12-13% of the metropolitan area's population but not a whole lot of the business and almost none of the wealth.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
Revelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 10569 posts, RR: 21 Reply 17, posted (4 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5267 times:
Quoting Rampart (Reply 12): why doesn't our president ever use a more modest biz jet on what is essentially a commuter flight from DC?
How do you know what plane he was on? All this thread says is "airforce one" which could be 747, 757, Gulfstream, etc. Any USAF plane the Prez is on is Air Force 1.
In any case, the reason for the big plane is the unbelievable communications suite it has, and presumably its defensive measures, and it's also nice to have room for other officials and the press as well.
History Channel just did an excellent documentary on AF1, catch it if you can.
OPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 18, posted (4 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5193 times:
Quoting Revelation (Reply 17): In any case, the reason for the big plane is the unbelievable communications suite it has, and presumably its defensive measures, and it's also nice to have room for other officials and the press as well.
Not to mention that the big one projects "power", and something that they undoubtedly wanted to do on a trip to the UN....
YULWinterSkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2115 posts, RR: 6 Reply 19, posted (4 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5123 times:
Quoting OrdfrBdl (Reply 3): I know this is a dream in this day and age, but I mean it.
Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 7): The aircraft size is also important. It going to be a long time before BDL see's 777s TATL...
well, could be a BA 767, AF 332 or LH 343... Connecticut is wealthy and so far from NYC when one has to drive there (i mean, traffic congestion makes it far...)
Quoting Jalflyer (Reply 13): yes crime is high but hartford is arguably the insurance capital of the country if not maybe the world. Also BDL is not in hartford so crime is irrelevant, and people might be leaving hartford but to places like west hartford. i would know this because i am one of them.
High crime? Ever heard of Texas? Detroit? LA? Lagos? Sao Paulo? No aircraft flies there, you're right!!
Quoting JohnJ (Reply 15): the population is only about 125,000 -
RL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4537 posts, RR: 13 Reply 20, posted (4 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4895 times:
Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 19): well, could be a BA 767, AF 332 or LH 343... Connecticut is wealthy and so far from NYC when one has to drive there (i mean, traffic congestion makes it far...)
They had trouble filling a 757 to a large international hub. I might agree on the BA 767 since it could get the London O&D plus hub connections. for CDG, id say a DL 757 to start, then an AF 332 when the time is right.
Much of CT's wealthy population is in southwest CT which is much closer to JFK then those living closer to Hartford.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
Rampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2871 posts, RR: 7 Reply 21, posted (4 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4744 times:
Quoting Revelation (Reply 17): How do you know what plane he was on? All this thread says is "airforce one" which could be 747, 757, Gulfstream, etc. Any USAF plane the Prez is on is Air Force 1.
In any case, the reason for the big plane is the unbelievable communications suite it has, and presumably its defensive measures, and it's also nice to have room for other officials and the press as well.
History Channel just did an excellent documentary on AF1, catch it if you can.
Good point, I don't know what it was, I assumed the 747. I'm probably right, though. What defensive measures would the POTUS need for a domestic flight? Communications? Well, I suppose if the prez has to be able to access all that at a moment's notice (god forbid his motorcade gets stuck on the Van Wyck Expressway), then yes, it is the Mobile White House. I didn't see the History special, but did see something a number of years ago on Discovery Channel or maybe PBS. It was shortly after I'd seen the prototype making touch-and-goes in Kansas (early 1980s?)
Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 18): Not to mention that the big one projects "power", and something that they undoubtedly wanted to do on a trip to the UN....
Interesting, and also a good point. I ought to drive out to JFK to see all the other expressions of power. What is Ahmadinejad flying? Chavez? Lulo? Sarkozy? (I don't even know if any of them are actually coming, probably not.) Do little countries have Freudian inferiority complexes and pull out the big guns? Should world powers even worry about it? I'll stop there... worth another thread.
Arrow From Canada, joined exactly 11 years ago today! , 2588 posts, RR: 2 Reply 22, posted (4 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4597 times:
Quoting Rampart (Reply 21): Interesting, and also a good point. I ought to drive out to JFK to see all the other expressions of power. What is Ahmadinejad flying? Chavez? Lulo? Sarkozy? (I don't even know if any of them are actually coming, probably not.) Do little countries have Freudian inferiority complexes and pull out the big guns?
Canadian PM Harper arrives in a Beaver on floats -- very secure.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
Rampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2871 posts, RR: 7 Reply 23, posted (4 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4429 times:
Quoting Arrow (Reply 22): Canadian PM Harper arrives in a Beaver on floats -- very secure.
And right to the UN plaza on the East River! Avoid a complicated motorcade and the security risks thereof. A good idea, if you ask me.
-Rampart
Edit: I thought better about introducing another northern floatplane politician. That's getting too far off topic.
DTWAGENT From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1283 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (4 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4311 times:
It could be both. GW and Volume. I know LGA is having problems with Volume right now as per the FAA sight. They are not allowing and inbound departures until after 1:30 EDT.
chuck
25 JohnJ: It's a myth that only southwest Connecticut is wealthy. True, a lot of uber wealth is down there, but Fairfield County has plenty of not-so-desirable
26 Revelation: Maybe he should do a low pass over the UN in the B747. "I'm gonna get them doors open if it harelips ever'body on the Hudson River!" Seems on 9/11 GW
27 USAirALB: ALB will get it next time! ALB gets CO a lot. They've landed here a dozen of times with a 772 and 752. We never get the 767's though.
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From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2522 posts, 
From France, joined Aug 2007, 39 posts, 
It looks like they held over Rhode Island for quite a while; that's why I'm a bit surprised we didn't see more diversions, as I think you're right that JFK was closed quite a bit later and/or longer than anticipated. 
From Canada, joined exactly 11 years ago today! 
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