BuyantUkhaa From Mongolia, joined May 2004, 2736 posts, RR: 3 Posted (3 years 8 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 20400 times:
Nothing in English yet, but a pilot of Anadolujet was fired for letting a 15yo plane fanatic (one of us?) sit behind the controls of a 737-400 at cruise altitude while he went to the toilet. The co-pilot was flying at that time.
Probably no one would have known, it if it wasn't for the fact that a pic was posted:
Plane was TC-JEU.
More info in the Turkish press - so maybe our Turkish members could fill in the details.
Workflyer From New Zealand, joined Dec 2006, 203 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (3 years 8 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 20381 times:
Quoting ThePRGuy (Reply 1): Thats unfortunate - safety levels gone mad - even if that child had done something erratic, the co-pilot could have intervened.
He was just interested in the plane
I take it you have not heard of a certain flight from Moscow to Bangkok then
CURLYHEADBOY From Italy, joined Feb 2005, 916 posts, RR: 2 Reply 3, posted (3 years 8 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 20385 times:
Wow! I'm speechless.... letting a teen toy with an airliner has already caused a major crash that I guess every pilot knows about. I can't understand why a professional could ever be so reckless...
Not even the guy in the picture can enjoy his "trophy" after knowing it cost pilots their jobs. Very sad and silly if the story is true.
If God had wanted men to fly he would have given them more money...
CURLYHEADBOY From Italy, joined Feb 2005, 916 posts, RR: 2 Reply 4, posted (3 years 8 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 20359 times:
Quoting Workflyer (Reply 2): Quoting ThePRGuy (Reply 1):
Thats unfortunate - safety levels gone mad - even if that child had done something erratic, the co-pilot could have intervened.
He was just interested in the plane
I take it you have not heard of a certain flight from Moscow to Bangkok then
Indeed, touch something you shouldn't have, and all hell breaks loose way quicker than you had thought it would!
Swiftski From Australia, joined Dec 2006, 2700 posts, RR: 2 Reply 7, posted (3 years 8 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 20281 times:
Quoting ThePRGuy (Reply 1): Thats unfortunate - safety levels gone mad - even if that child had done something erratic, the co-pilot could have intervened.
Quoting Workflyer (Reply 2): I take it you have not heard of a certain flight from Moscow to Bangkok then
PeachAir From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 341 posts, RR: 4 Reply 8, posted (3 years 8 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 20242 times:
Quoting ThePRGuy (Reply 1): Thats unfortunate - safety levels gone mad - even if that child had done something erratic, the co-pilot could have intervened.
He was just interested in the plane.
I disagree with you. The pilot and the co-pilot should BOTH be fired for this. After what happened with Aeroflot 593 - no one but the flight crew should occupy those seats during flight.
Quoting CURLYHEADBOY (Reply 3): Wow! I'm speechless.... letting a teen toy with an airliner has already caused a major crash that I guess every pilot knows about. I can't understand why a professional could ever be so reckless...
Not even the guy in the picture can enjoy his "trophy" after knowing it cost pilots their jobs. Very sad and silly if the story is true.
2175301 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 901 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (3 years 8 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 20179 times:
What is really amazing is that the pilot walked away and used the facilitites - leaving the teen unsupervised at the controls with the pilot not being able to provide any direct and immediate control if needed. I can't imagine doing that even on the ground.
Pilotaydin From Turkey, joined Sep 2004, 2491 posts, RR: 52 Reply 10, posted (3 years 8 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 19499 times:
The kid just sat there for a few seconds and got his picture taken, he was told not to touch anything and he didn't then he got up...
if you were flying on my aircraft and i told the captain that you were from A.net and he offered you his spot for a photo would you say no? im pretty sure many of you are dying to sit at the controls of a 737 during cruise flight....
anyhows, it's not in SOP or operations manual, it's an ethical issue. The kid was never IN CONTROL of the a/c and the copilot never had the aircraft OUT of control.....
you all get up in arms about something under control...why then do most people not switch off their phones, that's something that could seriously LOSE the airplane to something electrical.
How is it that people are in the cockpit during serious weather from A.net taking photos and using flash, doesn't that effect the pilots too, i think people need to relax and stop being so sensitive....
if you want to live your life based on could have and would have, then don't leave home, because it's a miracle that we survive in this world daily...
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
AirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 12883 posts, RR: 30 Reply 11, posted (3 years 8 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 19397 times:
Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 10): The kid just sat there for a few seconds and got his picture taken, he was told not to touch anything and he didn't then he got up...
The pic shows his hand on the yoke.....
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
ArcrftLvr From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 778 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (3 years 8 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 19361 times:
Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 10): why then do most people not switch off their phones,
Are you seriously comparing switching cell phones off to having an untrained passeneger in close proximity to the controls? If you are, you are completely ignorant.
Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 10): How is it that people are in the cockpit during serious weather from A.net taking photos and using flash,
When has that happened? Please support your comments.
Falstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 5177 posts, RR: 33 Reply 13, posted (3 years 8 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 19285 times:
Quoting ArcrftLvr (Reply 12): Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 10):
How is it that people are in the cockpit during serious weather from A.net taking photos and using flash,
When has that happened? Please support your comments.
I don't know about bad weather, but there are many photos taken in the cockpit while the plane is in flight and two pilots are seen. I have always assumed that the photographer is either a flight engineer or and another pilot jumpseating.
A pilot or FE taking a photo is different than just some kid sitting at the controls while in flight. Even if a pilot a pilot or FE isn't that familiar with that type of plane, they still are professionals and know what they are doing in the cockpit. I am sure the photographers still ask permission of the captain and only request if it is safe to do so.
September11 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3488 posts, RR: 27 Reply 14, posted (3 years 8 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 19227 times:
Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 11): Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 10):
The kid just sat there for a few seconds and got his picture taken, he was told not to touch anything and he didn't then he got up...
The pic shows his hand on the yoke.....
Looks like he was trying to pose as a pilot. Nothing more.
One time, when I was about 14 or 15, a flight attendant invited me to the cockpit while cruising in air for a short time - but I did not sit on pilot's seat. Both pilots were in the cockpit.
PanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 11 Reply 15, posted (3 years 8 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 19204 times:
Perhaps the pilot had the fish for dinner, and then had to throw up before the fever, dizziness, muscle twitching, drooling, flatulence, and finally passing out started. Or he just asked if the boy had ever been in a Turkish prison...
All joking aside, after the Aeroflot crash that occured when the flight crew could NOT regain control after the pilot's son sent the A310 into an uncontrolled dive, NO ONE should ever be at the controls of an airplane for ANY reason while the plane is in flight. Even for myself, at age 42, such a visit would be unsafe and unacceptable.
The cockpit door should remain closed and locked to all but the cockpit crew and flight attendants. No exceptions.
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
Falstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 5177 posts, RR: 33 Reply 16, posted (3 years 8 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 19171 times:
Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Thread starter): Probably no one would have known, it if it wasn't for the fact that a pic was posted:
and that an airline employee in some sort of authority was looking at the web site and saw it. Kind of reminds me of the DL FA that got fired for the sexy (I thought so) photos of her in uniform.
OPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 17, posted (3 years 8 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 19176 times:
Quoting 2175301 (Reply 9):
What is really amazing is that the pilot walked away and used the facilitites
Hate to burst your bubble here, but since pilots are humans, they do have physiological needs, and if they occur in flight it's not unreasonable for them to use the lav inflight. You expect them to "hold it" for the entire duration of the flight, including longer ones?
Quoting 2175301 (Reply 9): leaving the teen unsupervised at the controls
He was not unsupervised--the F/O was there.
Quoting 2175301 (Reply 9): with the pilot not being able to provide any direct and immediate control if needed.
The pilot who left the flight deck obviously couldn't, but again, the F/O was still there and control of the aircraft.
Just because the teen's hand is resting on, or otherwise touching the yoke doesn't necessarily mean he was manipulating the controls or otherwise "flying" the aircraft. At cruise, the flight was undoubtedly on autopilot anyway.
Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 10): The kid just sat there for a few seconds and got his picture taken, he was told not to touch anything and he didn't then he got up...
I have no doubt of this, but I suspect the reason for the airline's heartburn and dismissal of the pilot was not due to to any "real" danger per se, but the "appearance" that the release and the internet proliferation of the photo suggested. While comparison with the past Russian Airbus crash (hard to call it an "accident") is natural, I seem to recall in that case the teen was being *allowed* to manipulate the controls, which wasn't the case here, despite this teen's hand touching the yoke. Such fine distinctions are usually lost on the general public, who only tend to see a teen "flying" the aircraft (although he's not) and coming away with a very negative view of the airline involved... (Why, I'll never fly *that* airline again because they do unsafe stuff like letting teens fly their aircraft") Widespread attitudes like that tend to decrease passenger confidence and thus passenger load factors...
Silver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4042 posts, RR: 31 Reply 18, posted (3 years 8 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 19089 times:
Quoting ArcrftLvr (Reply 12): Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 10):
How is it that people are in the cockpit during serious weather from A.net taking photos and using flash,
When has that happened? Please support your comments.
I think they were refering to the thousands of photographs found at this website taken from the cockpit in various phases of flight and various conditions. Many taken at critical phases of flight such as final approach...
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
ArcrftLvr From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 778 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (3 years 8 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 19082 times:
Quoting Falstaff (Reply 13): I have always assumed that the photographer is either a flight engineer or and another pilot jumpseating.
Me too. Or a jumpseating crewmember.
Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 17): Hate to burst your bubble here, but since pilots are humans, they do have physiological needs, and if they occur in flight it's not unreasonable for them to use the lav inflight. You expect them to "hold it" for the entire duration of the flight, including longer ones?
I think the poster was referring to the fact that the Captain walked away while a 14 yr old was sitting at the controls, not that he had to use the facilities.
Wukka From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1006 posts, RR: 19 Reply 20, posted (3 years 8 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 19078 times:
Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 10): if you were flying on my aircraft and i told the captain that you were from A.net and he offered you his spot for a photo would you say no? im pretty sure many of you are dying to sit at the controls of a 737 during cruise flight....
anyhows, it's not in SOP or operations manual, it's an ethical issue. The kid was never IN CONTROL of the a/c and the copilot never had the aircraft OUT of control.....
That's great and all, but if I were sitting in the back and knew that a kid that hadn't had a psych eval, wasn't an employee of the airline, couldn't hold a driver's license, etc. was sitting left seat on my flight... I'd be pissed. I'd be more than pissed, actually.
All that kid had to do was freak out and fight the controls away from the co-pilot. Easy enough. Hit some hard rudder input, take that yoke and start running it left to right, hit the AP disengage. That's all just a bad situation waiting to happen. Fortunately the kid just wanted a picture.
If a captain offered his seat to me during cruise because I was from a.net, I'd tell him that he was f-in' crazy, and as much as I would like to flight-sim in a real plane, that captain had to realize that there were real people in the back.
Fire the both of them. No love lost there, just a demonstration of complete stupidity.
I'm absolutely shocked that you would defend this. It's illegal. Both tickets should be yanked immediately and permanently.
OPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 21, posted (3 years 8 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 19024 times:
Quoting ArcrftLvr (Reply 19): I think the poster was referring to the fact that the Captain walked away while a 14 yr old was sitting at the controls, not that he had to use the facilities.
Perhaps, perhaps not. Maybe he was confident that his F/O could adequately supervise and monitor the teen.
BTW, I haven't seen this question asked thus far (unless I missed it), but who actually took the photo? The pilot who used the lav? A F/A?
Wjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 4315 posts, RR: 18 Reply 23, posted (3 years 8 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 18564 times:
Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 15): The cockpit door should remain closed and locked to all but the cockpit crew and flight attendants. No exceptions.
That's the rule in the US, but different jurisdictions have different standards. As one of the cattle in the back of the a/c, I guess I'm happiest when I believe that the most extreme procedures are being followed to ensure my safety against even the freakest of occurrances.
OTOH, I have to say that inflight cockpit visits were a staple of travel on European carriers for years, with no resulting fatalities as far as I can recall, with the exception of the freak Aeroflot accident. And there was a lot of antipathy towards the Americans for their over-the-top rules in this regard -- what damage can a kid do in the cockpit? -- until the Aeroflot accident.
And, as we all know, even in these more "enlightened" times, pilot/fa interactions for some reason continue to cause more distractions, and more real and perceived safety issues, than anything to do with passengers (at least with passengers that mean no harm). Pilot/pilot interactions (e.g. meaningful violation of the sterile cockpit rule) are probably a close second.
Wukka From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1006 posts, RR: 19 Reply 24, posted (3 years 8 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 18527 times:
Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 17): Just because the teen's hand is resting on, or otherwise touching the yoke doesn't necessarily mean he was manipulating the controls or otherwise "flying" the aircraft. At cruise, the flight was undoubtedly on autopilot anyway.
AP disconnect is right freakin' there.
Tell me, in your best guesstimate, how far his thumb is from something that will cause an AP disconnect? My guess is 2" max.
If I'm sitting in 15C, do you think that I want a kid with his thumb 2 inches from causing a potential shitstorm?
My answer is no.
Do you?
Seriously, how can you people defend this at all?
We can agree to disagree.
25 Alibo5NGN: What if the kid became irrational and did something crazy like the son of the Captain of the ill fated Aeroflot jet to Hong Kong? I think it is enoug
26 OPNLguy: I think this guy said it best... Please don't interpret my previous comments incorrectly---I never stated that I thought what was allowed to happen w
27 Pilotaydin: actually it's not illegal, the only illegal thing about having someone in the cockpit is an FAA rule about unlawful interference.... i dont even work
28 CrimsonNL: The kid clearly has his hands on the yoke. Even if the FO is flying he does have access to the controls. That you invite a young enthusiast into the
29 Bahadir: I have many friends that work for THY and other turkish carriers but this has to stop. The SOP goes out of the door when 'minister's son' wants to see
30 MIAMIx707: i was looking forward to your response, excellent post If the kid didn't touch anything at all and was under constant watch, where's the common sense
31 IflyKPDX: Agree that they should both have been fired. The security of the cockpit is paramount these days, and while it's unfortunate, it's necessary. Allowing
32 413X3: What on earth are you talking about? I seriously believe jumping to conclusions is a serious problem with uneducated people, especially on the intern
33 Woody71: I'd be interested to hear what some of our pilot a.netters feel about this. Especially the commercial guys/gals. And to answer Pilotaydin's question,
34 DfwRevolution: I can't see how this is possibly defensible. Potential safety issues aside, which I'd like to see anyone claim are non-existent, it is terribly unprof
35 Viscount724: But it's not permitted on U.S.(and I believe Canadian) carriers. I don't think it's coincidental that the safety record of airlines in those countrie
36 Deaphen: I am sorry to burst your bubble, but i have jumpseated various times in the USA, Europe and India. Not ONCE did the pilots seem suspicious or weary of
37 PlaneInsomniac: As does drunk driving. This does not mean that it is acceptable for professionals in the same field to defend the behavior and adopt a "cool down, du
38 Bahadir: Deaphen, what were your credentials when you did these in USA. Unless you are in CASS , you cannot sit at the cockpit. Period ..
39 Stitch: IMO, someone in the jumpseat behind the pilots is a different thing then them actually being in the Captain or First Officer's seat, especially in the
40 Soon7x7: We would all be excited at any age EVEN WHILE ON THE GROUND!...That situation as you say was "IN CONTROL"...till it gets out of control...and fast...
41 Bok269: Not if it violates regulations, be it federal law, aviation regulations, or company procedures.
42 SATX: Poor judgment exposed, the pilot was fired, all is well with the world.
43 PGNCS: So there's no degradation in safety for having an unscreened, unknown individual in a control seat with passengers in the back? That's "mad"? You are
44 Soon7x7: The way I see it...is the one that is sitting in the drivers seat as he's pushing negative G's and impaling passengers and crews against ceiling panel
45 AirframeAS: But still........ he was specifically told not to touch anything. Clearly he touched the yoke. When someone tells another person not to touch anythin
46 Airbuster: When i was just fresh in flight school i had a security pass from the airline i now work for since it was the airline's school, i jumpseated on a flig
47 LH431: I'm sure many pilots think different about that! Most of them liked cockpit visits from passengers especially on long, boring daylight flights. They
48 SuseJ772: Exatly. This photo looks like I am flying - but I promise you I was not. From Motel 6 to Private Jet It's not like you disconnect the autopilot and e
49 Wukka: Jumpseat != Captain / FO / FE (for the old birds still flying) seat.
50 Soon7x7: Several years ago I was hired to photograph a Canadair Challenger for a client. I flew commercially down south to complete the job. When I arrived I w
51 MIAMIx707: rofl how is this similar drunk driving? In the Aeroflot crash the kids were left unsupervised, now that pilot deserved to be fired, but in this case
52 HapppyLandings: My Question is what you guys were doing at the absolute MAX alt of that airframe design. Have you heard of..... http://aviation-safety.net/database/r
53 BA84: Wrong. The FO was in his shoulder harness, though with his seat pushed back. The Captain was standing directly behind his son. BA84
54 MIAMIx707: First his daughter Yana took the pilot's left front seat. Kudrinsky adjusted the autopilot's heading to give her the impression that she was turning
55 WILCO737: I will add someting to this discussion as well now But I won't judge if it ok what they did or not. I have my opinion here. I will only say that much:
56 ArcrftLvr: Other than deadheading crew members, please back up your statement. Yes, I would. Absolutely. But, the question is not whether or the 14 yr. old was
57 Threepoint: Oh my word, step away from the Kool-Aid. Speaking of psych evals... Crazy? Like apply 10-12kg of force to the yoke after irrationally asking permissi
59 Threepoint: Just start browsing through the thousands of photo entries on this website alone. Happens constantly. I believe the US may be one of the few countrie
60 Deaphen: Call it Whiskey Hotel Alpha Tango Echo Victor Echo Romeo you want!! Well, you would be surprised, but i always hand in my flight log while boarding,
62 Q120: correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember a picture with a baby sitting at the controls of an airbus on here before I just dont want to look for it... I
63 Deaphen: The other very important fact of the Aeroflot crash is that the pilots should have kept an eye on their instruments throughout! If i remember correctl
64 OPNLguy: 121.547, Admission to the flight deck....
65 Pilotaydin: on the 737, we dont jump to the controls and start flicking switches in 2 seconds like they do in movies....you can let the plane fly on an engine ou
67 Threepoint: Probably the Eastern Airlines airboat impression in the Everglades in the 70s. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Air_Lines_Flight_401
68 FLY2HMO: I had the luck of having the exact same thing happen to me about 10 years ago in an F100 with a very reputable airline whom I shall not mention. Did
69 AirframeAS: The A&P graduate in me would agree as I have worked on heavy checks with AS & WN on the 732's, 734's and 73G's.
70 CURLYHEADBOY: Hey Pilotaydin, I'm no pilot while you are, so I fully respect your opinions and good judgement. However, I do see a similarity with Aeroflot 593 and
71 787seattle: This makes perfect sense. Noone should be allowed in the cockpit while the airplane is moving or running unless permission has been granted by both t
72 Aviateur: I'm not justifying anything, but the first officer, who is fully qualified to operate the aircraft, was at his station. You don't seem to understand
73 Wingscrubber: What if the turkish co-pilot had an instructors rating? Then technically no rules were broken...? On the aeroflot flight however, the pilots were d
74 BristolFlyer: Without a doubt the poster was highlighting the risk of the pilot leaving the cockpit with a kid in the seat. He wasn't saying that a pilot shouldn't
75 Nws2002: I'm a FA for a US carrier, and we are required to have one person replace the pilot who leaves, but we are never alone on the flight deck, there is a
76 ThePRGuy: Thankyou to both of you and the other three thousand people above for bringing my awareness to the accident which, yes, I knew about. However, comple
77 MIAMIx707: argument over The only posts that made this thread worth reading were posts by pilots and those who have sat in the cockpit.
78 SashA: I am with you on this one. May I say - overraction, anyone? A disciplinary action would probably suffice in such a case. I mean gee, why suddenly aft
79 MIAMIx707: hahaha or a drunk boards the bus and starts turning the wheel
80 BristolFlyer: Thanks for that. So you're saying that anyone else's opinion is worthless? Try reading the report about the Aeroflot crash, then see if there's any d
81 Wukka: Or you have an unbuckled teenager bouncing around controls that he shouldn't even be around in the first place. Touché You are also an employee of t
82 Wukka: So in your eyes, sitting this kid in the command seat with a busload of pax in the back is acceptable? Why not get on the PA and say, "Ladies and Gen
83 MIAMIx707: You're welcome/yes pretty much, especially if you're one of those saying "crucify the pilot!" to sound authoritative on here, yet probably would pay
84 Nws2002: I realize that, but I was answering a question from Wingscrubber. In my opinion the captain was stupid, and should be disciplined. There is nothing t
85 Soon7x7: P-51 Mustang ride was 150 feet AGL - 6,500 during maneuvers...The ride was free from a friend of mine...I've got 6,000 hours stick/rudder as he well
86 KirkSeattle: Well, interesting thread about what's happened in the cockpit. I'm no way qualified, but I can tell you if you dangle candy in front of a kid, he'll t
87 VHECA: Whilst I am not going to rush in and say that this is a general rule, but it seems to me that most of the people posting "No one enter flight deck wha
88 Threepoint: My point, sir, is that you seem to approaching this situation (a non-licensed person in a seat up front) with a great deal of unnecessary alarm borde
89 Starlionblue: I'll start by saying that I am sure tens of thousands of accidents are caused by drivers distracted by their children each year. Cockpit visits have c
90 KirkSeattle: Hi Starlionblue, I'm all for fostering an environment of life long interest and even a career in commercial aviation, it's truly facinating. I was on
91 Radarbeam: You better believe it, PED interferences happen regularly. Here's a +100 pages report from NASA ASRS filled with actual reports from pilots who exper
92 Pilotaydin: Great question, let's shed some light, there is a mode called CWS, which is a degraded mode of autopilot, which means that the autopilot is flying th
93 Radarbeam: Then the kid starts spiting flames from his mouth while all at the same time his heads does 360s around his neck and hotel california starts playing
94 Wukka: I'll be the first to admit that I'm playing Devil's advocate here, and have been since the beginning. I don't think that anyone meant any harm at all
95 Wukka: Like this? Seriously, why does my problem with a nobody at the controls in a cockpit have anything to do with my knowledge about flying. I would cons
96 Bahadir: It's funny how cultural differences play into this thread. What makes it interesting for me is that i am turkish with US airline job and US licenses.
97 MIAMIx707: I think the US culture has become so obsessed with prohibition and telling people what to do that anything else is automatically "risky/unsafe" becau
98 HAWK21M: Lets put it this way......If the rule states NO...then its wrong....As Different people percieve & react differently. regds MEL
99 Pilotaydin: I agree AND disagree, yes it's a major issue, probably for the Americans, we know exactly who wish to hijack our turkish aircraft, and also why, and
100 Avek00: It's better, IMHO, than some other cultures where all sorts of goofball sh!t is allowed until a plane crashes and people die.
101 Danfearn77: Both Captain and Co-pilot should be fired. Its even worse that he wandered off to the toilet, totally unprofessional and dangerous. Its easy to say do
102 Radarbeam: Before 2001 that sort of ''goofball shit'' happened 100's of times every day across the globe (except for the US). Kids were allowed cockpit visits,
103 Danfearn77: But did the pilot stay and keep an eye on them, or bugger off to the toilet?
104 BristolFlyer: I guess you don't understand sarcasm?
105 Soon7x7: Analogy askew you say?...then by all means pull the fifteen year old out of the 325MPH dragster and put him in a 540MPH, 100 ton airliner...have it y
106 VHECA: Sir, Again the analogy again is not entirely correct. As I am yet to voice my opinion on the matter I was only suggesting that you have missed the pa
107 Spacecadet: End of discussion. There's no room for debate on this.
108 MIAMIx707: That had nothing to do with taking pictures^ Gee, what are we going to post next, images of planes crashing into WTC or a mug shot of Mohammed Atta? B
109 Maxisno1: Oh please. Showing children the cockpit of a plane is how many, including myself, got into aviation. Sitting in the jump seat is however, a different
110 Viscount724: Many 15 year olds these days are likely to be bigger and stronger than the pilots. The world changed after 9/11. What's El Al's policy re visitors to
111 ArcrftLvr: You know so? And how is that? How many of those are photos in the flight deck of an American carrier, post 9/11. Very few, I suspect. Those that do e
112 Deaphen: Well i am an example of that! I am not trying to argue with you, but all i am saying is that "unauthorised" people enter cockpits around the USA ever
113 Enginebird: Exactly It was not at all uncommon in the 1990s for non-crew, especially kids, to get a tour of the cockpit or even travel on the jumpseat. In the ea
114 Soon7x7: Not offended that easily...My point is that EVEN with five crew standing beside child...that kids knee disengages auto/p and nose drops forwards at c
115 Gofly: Hello chaps, There was a request put into the moderators to lock this thread; I have reviewed the situation and have decided not to lock the thread -
116 413X3: The aeroflot plane crashed because the pilots seemed to not be experienced in the type, failed to notice a caution illumination, and were not great a
117 Bahadir: Nitin, it's in our SOP where we have a definition of who can and ride in the cockpit. We even have a list of the priority. (FAA vs. company pilot vs.
118 Flyin5glow: Come on, lets be realistic. With another pilot in the cabin what would the chances be of a kid dooming a flight. I know that we owe to be strict when
119 Radarbeam: I am well documented about the Aeroflot crash. It seems it is you who has to do a bit of research before you open your mouth. I clearly asked if ''th
120 Cmoltay: Altough, my nature requires me to take PilotAydin's side of humane and "laissez faire" like approach in this discussion there're several unfortunate e
121 Bahadir: Aydin, here are my questions I am in Istanbul, i would be more than glad to discuss this over a balik + raki Ciao, Bahadir
122 Threepoint: Beacuse every pilot's union in the western world would vehemently oppose this. The initiative to install flight deck cameras is proof positive of thi
123 Starlionblue: It's not that easy and the consequences are not so dire. And it would trigger an alarm. And the nose wouldn't drop. The aircraft is in trim so most l
124 HAWK21M: Then it looks like the Rule is NOT BEING IMPLEMENTED 100%.I've seen Nitins pics too & I'm sure he's not going to get those pilots in trouble with ext
125 BCAL: It seems that ‘once’ in aviation terms is too often, as the Aeroflot accident proved. But it is sad that it has come to this situation and I am no
126 413X3: Thanks for that story, that's funny! Yes I believe people these days need to lighten up, with all this technology and people being in contact so much
127 Mandala499: It depends on which regulations you adhere to. Whilst the rules on cockpit visits are clear, one thing isn't, the manipulation of controls by an unqu
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