CastropRauxel From Germany, joined Sep 2008, 466 posts, RR: 0 Posted (4 years 8 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4560 times:
6 months only after opening the LHR-TLV route, BD plans a second daily service to TLV, or at least a capacity increase (for the second time in less than a year!) from the 757 to A330 on the daily flight.
The decision will be made soon as BD is checking its options. Apparently this route is doing very well for BD!
Edit: As it seems, a possible codeshare with other STAR carriers operating in TLV is also being discussed!
CastropRauxel From Germany, joined Sep 2008, 466 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (4 years 8 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4493 times:
Quoting Shamrock321 (Reply 1): some people say they are pulling TLV, others say downgrading it to a A320 and now this!
Definitely not. loads are very high on the route, and it's already been decided that as the summer season ended, they won't go back to the A320 but leave the 757. BD managment from both countries are meeting in TLV today to discuss the capacity increase on the route.
LY7E7 From Israel, joined Jun 2004, 2218 posts, RR: 21 Reply 3, posted (4 years 8 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4461 times:
Changing the 757 is a good idea by itself. I flew it once, it was Astraeus equipment, very poor service as well. The 330 will challenge LY , but still BA offers the best product between TLV and LHR.
CYatUK From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 804 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (4 years 8 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3913 times:
Does anyone know what happened with those additional A330s that BMI ordered.
If I remember correctly deliveries were postponed for some time due to "unavailability of engines" but cannot remember for how long.
Were those orders cancelled? They are not shown on the Airbus Orders and Deliveries spreadsheet.
Behramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4440 posts, RR: 43 Reply 11, posted (4 years 8 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3805 times:
How come Virgin Atlantic with its huge NYC presence + flights to ORD/IAD/BOS + large )&D market size between LON & TLV never found it feasible to fly using a B 744 to TLV from LHR?
Im sure with their amazing in-flight product combined with good connections via LHR to USA, VS can easily fill up a B 744 in all 3 cabin classes so whats holding them back?
Is it because the Virgin name would upset orthodox Jews like it does in many Muslim countries?
RedChili From Norway, joined Jul 2005, 2053 posts, RR: 2 Reply 12, posted (4 years 8 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3802 times:
Quoting CastropRauxel (Thread starter): or at least a capacity increase (for the second time in less than a year!) from the 757 to A330 on the daily flight.
More widebody service from Europe to TLV would be very welcome. In the good ol' days, many European airlines used to fly widebodies to TLV. Nowadays, only BA, LH and LX do.
CastropRauxel From Germany, joined Sep 2008, 466 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (4 years 8 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3676 times:
Quoting SB (Reply 9): Last we heard is that they were postponed to 2009 for "economical" reasons
So 2009 is not that far ahead... I guess this won't happen anyway before the summer flight plan starting march 2009.
Quoting Behramjee (Reply 11): How come Virgin Atlantic with its huge NYC presence + flights to ORD/IAD/BOS + large )&D market size between LON & TLV never found it feasible to fly using a B 744 to TLV from LHR?
Regulatory limitations. BD also couldn't start operations before they did since the bilateral agreements didn't allow it. now that they were expanded, BD could get in - which they did.
never the less, VS is making very good money out of it, don't worry - BD offers very competitive fares out of TLV to many VS destinations (mainly in the U.S) served from LHR, and so fills their own aircraft with passengers flying not only to BD destinations but all over the VS network.
Quoting RedChili (Reply 12): In the good ol' days, many European airlines used to fly widebodies to TLV. Nowadays, only BA, LH and LX do
Actually nowadays airlines are increasing capacities once again to TLV - RO and TK are using A300, UN is flying their brand new 777,and IB also send their A340 on certain days (I believe mondays and saturdays).
AlanUK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 14, posted (4 years 8 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3642 times:
Quoting CastropRauxel (Reply 2): Quoting Shamrock321 (Reply 1):
some people say they are pulling TLV, others say downgrading it to a A320 and now this!
Definitely not. loads are very high on the route
When will people learn? Flight loads being busy doesn't mean the route is successful!
Selling 200 seats at super discounted prices against the competition doesn't mean the airline is making money. If it did, you would only have wide bodied planes flying around the world, full of cheap fares! Capacity reduction can be a way to make more money (ask BA on that one!).
CastropRauxel From Germany, joined Sep 2008, 466 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (4 years 8 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3607 times:
Quoting AlanUK (Reply 14): Flight loads being busy doesn't mean the route is successful!
So what you're saying is that they lose money and decided to double capacity in order to double the losses, then? that's an interesting notion...
And with BA fares being what they are, it's not very difficult to offer competitive prices and still be profitable. plus, you know, not all 200 seats are in the lowest class in economy.
Ankaraflyjet From Turkey, joined Mar 2007, 225 posts, RR: 1 Reply 16, posted (4 years 8 months 2 days ago) and read 3474 times:
BD is spreading itself too thin and will rely too much on the spot market leased aircraft but this may have more disadvantages and advantages so we will see how they will play.
BD needs to offer better connecctions at LHR particularly to North America as they rely too much on codeshares. It will have to utilize its own metal eventually.
I predict BD will suspend some more former BMED destiantions in 2009 and will concentrate on a limited network with more flight options. I think they will concentrate on the following routes particularly; Tel Aviv, Cairo, Beirut, Amman, Damascus, Moscow and Saudia routes;
I expect the following routes to be suspended later next year; Khartoum, Aleppo, Addis Ababa and Tehran
Amirs From Israel, joined Dec 2003, 1332 posts, RR: 4 Reply 19, posted (4 years 8 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3288 times:
UN flying its brand new 777 twice daily to TLV is the most interesting news I have heard all year. Usually new 777 are sent to LHR, NYC, HKG etc.
Has anyone seen pics of new UN 777 interior?
I would love to see te seat and configuration.
What IES does it have?
I think AF and/or KL need to upgrade the TLV route now. I dont understand how they are not trying to be more successful on the route?!?! They should atleast reconfigure their a/c to have a better C class to TLV.
AlanUK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 20, posted (4 years 8 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3151 times:
Quoting CastropRauxel (Reply 15): Quoting AlanUK (Reply 14):
Flight loads being busy doesn't mean the route is successful!
So what you're saying is that they lose money and decided to double capacity in order to double the losses, then? that's an interesting notion...
I'm saying what I'm saying: Flight loads being busy doesn't [automatically] mean that the route is successful. Besides, you said yourself in Post 1 that the doubling of frequency is a plan, so I guess nothing has been officially announced... Hold your horses!
CastropRauxel From Germany, joined Sep 2008, 466 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (4 years 8 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3124 times:
Quoting Amirs (Reply 19): Has anyone seen pics of new UN 777 interior?
I would love to see te seat and configuration
Well, yeah. I've been inside the aircraft last week - it was one of the first flights with it - but as I went in just to have a quick look, I didn't manage to take any pics (though I promise I will next time!). the interior looks very nice indeed and still got that brand-new-aircraft smell it's a 4-class configuration: economy and premium economy, which are basically the exact same seats, the only difference being that in premium Y is the service. apparently the get free alcohol (very important on russian carriers...) and better meals. I also think the seat pitch is better. C seats are very nice and new though I don't think they fully recline. I believe they call it "imperial class" and configured 2-2-2. F looks very good, definitely better than SU. very luxurious (though a bit old-school luxurious). seating there is 1-2-1.
Quoting Amirs (Reply 19): I think AF and/or KL need to upgrade the TLV route now. I dont understand how they are not trying to be more successful on the route?!?!
Basically, I believe that the success of LH and their very aggressive marketing of the Miles&More program resulted in the fact that most Israeli frequent flyers hold a Star Alliance FF card, and combined with the much bigger market share and better products offered by STAR members out of TLV, taking passengers from Skyteam carriers. neither AF nor KL can justify a bigger aircraft on the route. moreover - KL have many weight problems with their 737 due to cargo, and still won't increase capacities.
Quoting AlanUK (Reply 20): you said yourself in Post 1 that the doubling of frequency is a plan, so I guess nothing has been officially announced
True. I've followed it up yesterday and apparently a decision was made to wait a while longer and see how the booking forecasts for the winter would look like - if the numbers are still rising although it's winter time, the preference is a second daily flight, rather than a bigger aircraft.
David_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7144 posts, RR: 14 Reply 22, posted (4 years 8 months 1 day ago) and read 3042 times:
If they were to use A330s on that route, which other LHR operated route would also be upgraded as they're gettiing around 16hrs utilisation daily out of MAN going transatlantic and I daresay that LHR-TLV and return us just over half that utilisation?
Amirs From Israel, joined Dec 2003, 1332 posts, RR: 4 Reply 23, posted (4 years 8 months 23 hours ago) and read 2997 times:
Quoting CastropRauxel (Reply 21): very luxurious (though a bit old-school luxurious). seating there is 1-2-1.
well 1-2-1 is better than el al 's First class 2-2-2 with business class seats.
Quoting CastropRauxel (Reply 21): Basically, I believe that the success of LH and their very aggressive marketing of the Miles&More program resulted in the fact that most Israeli frequent flyers hold a Star Alliance FF card, and combined with the much bigger market share and better products offered by STAR members out of TLV, taking passengers from Skyteam carriers. neither AF nor KL can justify a bigger aircraft on the route. moreover - KL have many weight problems with their 737 due to cargo, and still won't increase capacities.
Well its not only LH/LX that are making it work. BA, and even IB is starying to send widebodies from Europe.
I am sure if AF tried it would be able to send double daily wide bodies (even 772/3) between TLV and CDG.
1. Unlike LH, LX - AF can take advantage of the HUGE O&D traffic between Paris and Tel Aviv. LY sends between 2 - 3 widebodies a day.
2. I would prefer flying with AF over LH if only they had a "real" business class between TLV amd CDG. They currently offer a product almost same as economy.
Adicool From Netherlands, joined Apr 2007, 261 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (4 years 8 months 22 hours ago) and read 2972 times:
I think there's also a big O&D market between Israel and Germany, especially between TLV and MUC and Berlin (could LH get any frequencies for those routes?).
25 BrightCedars: UN got a factory fresh 777? Did I miss something? BD is staging a fare war on the Levant routes (and other BMED routes) where sometimes there is littl
26 Amirs: not factory fresh, ex Varig/UA 1. FRA/MUC - TLV is no where near close to O&D PAR - TLV. 2. LH has been trying hard to get rights to fly MUC - TLV bu
27 CastropRauxel: Just wait till you see their F menu.. now that's russian luxury! That's the thing. if you look at the TLV-LHR and TLV-NYC routes, the capacities are
28 AF022: Just as a reminder, does BMI wet-lease the 757 on the LHR-TLV leg, or dry-lease?
30 Theginge: Because I don't think they know what they are doing!!!
31 CastropRauxel: BMI air crew, Astraeus cockpit crew.
32 BabyblueBHX: From personal experience the Tehran route is a very busy route for BD and I believe BD wanted to put the 757 on the Tehran but couldn't due to some s
33 LXA340: How is the C class product on BD on the TLV route on the B757?
34 HUYfan: BD won't be giving up Tehran anytime soon, it is a good route for them. The 757 was planned for IKA, however, due to a lack of engineering support and
35 Jfk777: I hope BMI finally starts its own Atlantic service on its own or owned by Lufthansa. A merger with Virgin is also possible and should have been done
36 AF022: There's obviously a difference of opinion here. I didn't think BD was doing well to ADD. Anyone have more information here?
37 CastropRauxel: Well, basically it's their long haul C product with everything that goes along with it - though the seats in the 757 are the cradle type seats.
38 David_itl: I take it you mean from LHR and not the 7 years-old ORD route and the 3 or 4 years-old LAS route? Theres's not going to be many places for them to fl
39 LXA340: OH ok, I thought that those leased in aircraft might only have a Economy Class configuration and not proper C Class seats. I guess for the IFE the pa
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