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BMI Plans To Double The Flights To TLV  
User currently offlineCastropRauxel From Germany, joined Sep 2008, 467 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 6122 times:

6 months only after opening the LHR-TLV route, BD plans a second daily service to TLV, or at least a capacity increase (for the second time in less than a year!) from the 757 to A330 on the daily flight.
The decision will be made soon as BD is checking its options. Apparently this route is doing very well for BD!

Edit: As it seems, a possible codeshare with other STAR carriers operating in TLV is also being discussed!

[Edited 2008-09-23 04:00:11]

[Edited 2008-09-23 04:01:08]

39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineShamrock321 From Ireland, joined May 2008, 1612 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 6084 times:

Good news for BD if its true, but I hear conflicting stories, some people say they are pulling TLV, others say downgrading it to a A320 and now this!

I suppose we wont really know until they confirm somthing.


User currently offlineCastropRauxel From Germany, joined Sep 2008, 467 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 6055 times:



Quoting Shamrock321 (Reply 1):
some people say they are pulling TLV, others say downgrading it to a A320 and now this!

Definitely not. loads are very high on the route, and it's already been decided that as the summer season ended, they won't go back to the A320 but leave the 757. BD managment from both countries are meeting in TLV today to discuss the capacity increase on the route.


User currently offlineLY7E7 From Israel, joined Jun 2004, 2262 posts, RR: 19
Reply 3, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 6023 times:

Changing the 757 is a good idea by itself. I flew it once, it was Astraeus equipment, very poor service as well. The 330 will challenge LY , but still BA offers the best product between TLV and LHR.


2 things are endless: ignorance and space
User currently offlineCastropRauxel From Germany, joined Sep 2008, 467 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 5904 times:



Quoting LY7E7 (Reply 3):
but still BA offers the best product between TLV and LHR

...and that's why BD is fighting them hard now on the fares field.


User currently offlineZkojh From China, joined Sep 2004, 1726 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 5780 times:

so what route from man will get the axe then if this goes ahead,


CZ 787 to AKL can't wait.
User currently offlineShamrock321 From Ireland, joined May 2008, 1612 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 5609 times:

ORD will stay so the other routes I think Bermuda etc?

User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4927 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 5560 times:



Quoting Shamrock321 (Reply 6):
ORD will stay so the other routes I think Bermuda etc?

The other routes are Las Vegas, Barbados, St Lucia and I think Antigua as well

But Barbados authorities are targheting bmi to add extra capacity according to some articles linked to on the Carribean aviation threads



Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineCYatUK From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 811 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 5475 times:

Does anyone know what happened with those additional A330s that BMI ordered.
If I remember correctly deliveries were postponed for some time due to "unavailability of engines" but cannot remember for how long.

Were those orders cancelled? They are not shown on the Airbus Orders and Deliveries spreadsheet.



CY@Uk
User currently offlineSB From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 216 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 5430 times:

Last we heard is that they were postponed to 2009 for "economical" reasons.

Plans change very quickly at BMI so I wouldn't be surprised if the above is already obsolete.

S.



"Confirm leave the hold and maintain 320kts?!"
User currently offlineRaffik From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 1718 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 5404 times:

I don't see this happening


Happy -go- lucky kinda guy!
User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4852 posts, RR: 44
Reply 11, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 5367 times:

How come Virgin Atlantic with its huge NYC presence + flights to ORD/IAD/BOS + large )&D market size between LON & TLV never found it feasible to fly using a B 744 to TLV from LHR?

Im sure with their amazing in-flight product combined with good connections via LHR to USA, VS can easily fill up a B 744 in all 3 cabin classes so whats holding them back?

Is it because the Virgin name would upset orthodox Jews like it does in many Muslim countries?


User currently offlineRedChili From Norway, joined Jul 2005, 2307 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 5364 times:



Quoting CastropRauxel (Thread starter):
or at least a capacity increase (for the second time in less than a year!) from the 757 to A330 on the daily flight.

 bouncy 

More widebody service from Europe to TLV would be very welcome. In the good ol' days, many European airlines used to fly widebodies to TLV. Nowadays, only BA, LH and LX do.



Top 10 airplanes: B737, T154, B747, IL96, T134, IL62, A320, MD80, B757, DC10
User currently offlineCastropRauxel From Germany, joined Sep 2008, 467 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5238 times:



Quoting SB (Reply 9):
Last we heard is that they were postponed to 2009 for "economical" reasons

So 2009 is not that far ahead... I guess this won't happen anyway before the summer flight plan starting march 2009.

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 11):
How come Virgin Atlantic with its huge NYC presence + flights to ORD/IAD/BOS + large )&D market size between LON & TLV never found it feasible to fly using a B 744 to TLV from LHR?

Regulatory limitations. BD also couldn't start operations before they did since the bilateral agreements didn't allow it. now that they were expanded, BD could get in - which they did.
never the less, VS is making very good money out of it, don't worry - BD offers very competitive fares out of TLV to many VS destinations (mainly in the U.S) served from LHR, and so fills their own aircraft with passengers flying not only to BD destinations but all over the VS network.

Quoting RedChili (Reply 12):
In the good ol' days, many European airlines used to fly widebodies to TLV. Nowadays, only BA, LH and LX do

Actually nowadays airlines are increasing capacities once again to TLV - RO and TK are using A300, UN is flying their brand new 777,and IB also send their A340 on certain days (I believe mondays and saturdays).


User currently offlineAlanUK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5204 times:



Quoting CastropRauxel (Reply 2):
Quoting Shamrock321 (Reply 1):
some people say they are pulling TLV, others say downgrading it to a A320 and now this!

Definitely not. loads are very high on the route

When will people learn? Flight loads being busy doesn't mean the route is successful!

Selling 200 seats at super discounted prices against the competition doesn't mean the airline is making money. If it did, you would only have wide bodied planes flying around the world, full of cheap fares! Capacity reduction can be a way to make more money (ask BA on that one!).


User currently offlineCastropRauxel From Germany, joined Sep 2008, 467 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5169 times:



Quoting AlanUK (Reply 14):
Flight loads being busy doesn't mean the route is successful!

So what you're saying is that they lose money and decided to double capacity in order to double the losses, then? that's an interesting notion...

And with BA fares being what they are, it's not very difficult to offer competitive prices and still be profitable. plus, you know, not all 200 seats are in the lowest class in economy.


User currently offlineAnkaraflyjet From Turkey, joined Mar 2007, 282 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5036 times:
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BD is spreading itself too thin and will rely too much on the spot market leased aircraft but this may have more disadvantages and advantages so we will see how they will play.

BD needs to offer better connecctions at LHR particularly to North America as they rely too much on codeshares. It will have to utilize its own metal eventually.

I predict BD will suspend some more former BMED destiantions in 2009 and will concentrate on a limited network with more flight options. I think they will concentrate on the following routes particularly; Tel Aviv, Cairo, Beirut, Amman, Damascus, Moscow and Saudia routes;

I expect the following routes to be suspended later next year; Khartoum, Aleppo, Addis Ababa and Tehran


User currently offlineRedChili From Norway, joined Jul 2005, 2307 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 5012 times:



Quoting CastropRauxel (Reply 13):
RO

I had no idea RO is using widebodies to Israel!

Quoting CastropRauxel (Reply 13):
TK are using A300

I assume you mean A310 or A330? AFAIK, TK doesn't have any A300s.



Top 10 airplanes: B737, T154, B747, IL96, T134, IL62, A320, MD80, B757, DC10
User currently offlineCastropRauxel From Germany, joined Sep 2008, 467 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4990 times:



Quoting RedChili (Reply 17):
I assume you mean A310 or A330? AFAIK, TK doesn't have any A300s

Errrrr, sorry, typo. I meant writing both RO and TK are using A310.


User currently offlineAmirs From Israel, joined Dec 2003, 1333 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4850 times:

UN flying its brand new 777 twice daily to TLV is the most interesting news I have heard all year. Usually new 777 are sent to LHR, NYC, HKG etc.

Has anyone seen pics of new UN 777 interior?
I would love to see te seat and configuration.
What IES does it have?

I think AF and/or KL need to upgrade the TLV route now. I dont understand how they are not trying to be more successful on the route?!?! They should atleast reconfigure their a/c to have a better C class to TLV.

[Edited 2008-09-24 11:22:54]

User currently offlineAlanUK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4713 times:



Quoting CastropRauxel (Reply 15):
Quoting AlanUK (Reply 14):
Flight loads being busy doesn't mean the route is successful!

So what you're saying is that they lose money and decided to double capacity in order to double the losses, then? that's an interesting notion...

I'm saying what I'm saying: Flight loads being busy doesn't [automatically] mean that the route is successful. Besides, you said yourself in Post 1 that the doubling of frequency is a plan, so I guess nothing has been officially announced... Hold your horses!  Wink


User currently offlineCastropRauxel From Germany, joined Sep 2008, 467 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days ago) and read 4686 times:



Quoting Amirs (Reply 19):
Has anyone seen pics of new UN 777 interior?
I would love to see te seat and configuration

Well, yeah. I've been inside the aircraft last week - it was one of the first flights with it - but as I went in just to have a quick look, I didn't manage to take any pics (though I promise I will next time!). the interior looks very nice indeed and still got that brand-new-aircraft smell  Wink it's a 4-class configuration: economy and premium economy, which are basically the exact same seats, the only difference being that in premium Y is the service. apparently the get free alcohol (very important on russian carriers...) and better meals. I also think the seat pitch is better. C seats are very nice and new though I don't think they fully recline. I believe they call it "imperial class" and configured 2-2-2. F looks very good, definitely better than SU. very luxurious (though a bit old-school luxurious). seating there is 1-2-1.

Quoting Amirs (Reply 19):
I think AF and/or KL need to upgrade the TLV route now. I dont understand how they are not trying to be more successful on the route?!?!

Basically, I believe that the success of LH and their very aggressive marketing of the Miles&More program resulted in the fact that most Israeli frequent flyers hold a Star Alliance FF card, and combined with the much bigger market share and better products offered by STAR members out of TLV, taking passengers from Skyteam carriers. neither AF nor KL can justify a bigger aircraft on the route. moreover - KL have many weight problems with their 737 due to cargo, and still won't increase capacities.

Quoting AlanUK (Reply 20):
you said yourself in Post 1 that the doubling of frequency is a plan, so I guess nothing has been officially announced

True. I've followed it up yesterday and apparently a decision was made to wait a while longer and see how the booking forecasts for the winter would look like - if the numbers are still rising although it's winter time, the preference is a second daily flight, rather than a bigger aircraft.

ah, and the horses are tied  Big grin


User currently offlineDavid_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7448 posts, RR: 13
Reply 22, posted (6 years 3 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4604 times:
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If they were to use A330s on that route, which other LHR operated route would also be upgraded as they're gettiing around 16hrs utilisation daily out of MAN going transatlantic and I daresay that LHR-TLV and return us just over half that utilisation?

User currently offlineAmirs From Israel, joined Dec 2003, 1333 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (6 years 3 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4559 times:



Quoting CastropRauxel (Reply 21):
very luxurious (though a bit old-school luxurious). seating there is 1-2-1.

well 1-2-1 is better than el al 's First class 2-2-2 with business class seats.

Quoting CastropRauxel (Reply 21):
Basically, I believe that the success of LH and their very aggressive marketing of the Miles&More program resulted in the fact that most Israeli frequent flyers hold a Star Alliance FF card, and combined with the much bigger market share and better products offered by STAR members out of TLV, taking passengers from Skyteam carriers. neither AF nor KL can justify a bigger aircraft on the route. moreover - KL have many weight problems with their 737 due to cargo, and still won't increase capacities.

Well its not only LH/LX that are making it work. BA, and even IB is starying to send widebodies from Europe.

I am sure if AF tried it would be able to send double daily wide bodies (even 772/3) between TLV and CDG.
1. Unlike LH, LX - AF can take advantage of the HUGE O&D traffic between Paris and Tel Aviv. LY sends between 2 - 3 widebodies a day.
2. I would prefer flying with AF over LH if only they had a "real" business class between TLV amd CDG. They currently offer a product almost same as economy.


User currently offlineAdicool From Netherlands, joined Apr 2007, 302 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 3 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4534 times:

I think there's also a big O&D market between Israel and Germany, especially between TLV and MUC and Berlin (could LH get any frequencies for those routes?).

25 BrightCedars : UN got a factory fresh 777? Did I miss something? BD is staging a fare war on the Levant routes (and other BMED routes) where sometimes there is littl
26 Amirs : not factory fresh, ex Varig/UA 1. FRA/MUC - TLV is no where near close to O&D PAR - TLV. 2. LH has been trying hard to get rights to fly MUC - TLV bu
27 CastropRauxel : Just wait till you see their F menu.. now that's russian luxury! That's the thing. if you look at the TLV-LHR and TLV-NYC routes, the capacities are
28 AF022 : Just as a reminder, does BMI wet-lease the 757 on the LHR-TLV leg, or dry-lease?
29 RedChili : I think it's damp leased.
30 Theginge : Because I don't think they know what they are doing!!!
31 CastropRauxel : BMI air crew, Astraeus cockpit crew.
32 BabyblueBHX : From personal experience the Tehran route is a very busy route for BD and I believe BD wanted to put the 757 on the Tehran but couldn't due to some s
33 LXA340 : How is the C class product on BD on the TLV route on the B757?
34 HUYfan : BD won't be giving up Tehran anytime soon, it is a good route for them. The 757 was planned for IKA, however, due to a lack of engineering support and
35 Jfk777 : I hope BMI finally starts its own Atlantic service on its own or owned by Lufthansa. A merger with Virgin is also possible and should have been done
36 AF022 : There's obviously a difference of opinion here. I didn't think BD was doing well to ADD. Anyone have more information here?
37 CastropRauxel : Well, basically it's their long haul C product with everything that goes along with it - though the seats in the 757 are the cradle type seats.
38 David_itl : I take it you mean from LHR and not the 7 years-old ORD route and the 3 or 4 years-old LAS route? Theres's not going to be many places for them to fl
39 LXA340 : OH ok, I thought that those leased in aircraft might only have a Economy Class configuration and not proper C Class seats. I guess for the IFE the pa
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