Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
What's Happening To A380 Windows?  
User currently offlineBraybuddy From Ireland, joined Aug 2004, 5758 posts, RR: 32
Posted (6 years 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 19648 times:

I'm curious as to why foam should be protruding between the window panes of (at least) two of Singapore's A380s. These are two new aircraft, both having entered service within the last year. I can't imagine either aircraft being delivered like this, so I assume possibly stretching of the fittings in flight and vibration has caused it to show through, but this would be strange, given that the aircraft seems to lurch slowly more so than shudder during mild turbulence (the crew seem to prefer it for it's smoothness in flight).

I've never seen this on any other aircraft type, and find it strange it should be happening so early into a new airliner's life. This was at at the window seats (around rows 57-57) on two out of three different aircraft, so I wonder how many other aircraft/rows are affected.

The A380 is a fantastic aircraft, and after so much money and time being spent preparing it for service and certifying it, finding this sort of flaw is surprising, to say the least.



9V-SKA



9V-SKC

24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (6 years 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 19072 times:

There is a foam seal that keeps dust and dirt out between the inner and mid-pane. It's just come loose...


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 2, posted (6 years 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 18463 times:

It seems odd... perhaps there are just quality control issues with some of the earlier variants of this newer, larger Airbus window?

I'm sure that SQ and Airbus will get this worked out. I know all new aircraft are prone to problems, I just hope A380 gets theirs worked out sooner than later. It doesn't take much for a good airplane to get a reputation as problematic it can never live down (like DC-10).



"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlineBraybuddy From Ireland, joined Aug 2004, 5758 posts, RR: 32
Reply 3, posted (6 years 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 18285 times:



Quoting EMBQA (Reply 1):
There is a foam seal that keeps dust and dirt out between the inner and mid-pane. It's just come loose...

Not being an expert, I figured it was some kind of padding, but it is odd (and, it has to be said, looks bad) to see something like this in an aircraft, particularly one as headline-grabbing as the A380. While it wouldn't bother me at all, I'm sure some passengers might be concerned with something like this, particularly on a new aircraft.

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 2):
It doesn't take much for a good airplane to get a reputation as problematic it can never live down (like DC-10).

Fingers crossed this never happens again with any airliner. Unfortunately the media latched onto the poor old DC-10, wrongly blaming the aircraft for a couple of crashes and terrifying the public.


User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 17457 times:

It's a VERY easy fix.... but a pain in the @ss to get at. You need to pull all the seats in front of the wall panel then pull the wall panel. Five minutes to make the repair.......2 hours to get at it.


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineOlympic472 From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 470 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 17123 times:

Seriously, are there warranties on airliners?


Civil Aviation has a "Need for Speed"!
User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (6 years 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 16709 times:



Quoting Olympic472 (Reply 5):
Seriously, are there warranties on airliners?

The following should answer your question:

http://www.warrantyweek.com/archive/ww20040302.html


User currently offlineOa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27110 posts, RR: 60
Reply 7, posted (6 years 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 16636 times:

It does look bad though , they need to get it changed soon. If I was sitting in that seat it would not give a good impression. Things are bound to happen with new things but when they do they need to sort them quick,

User currently offlineOlympic472 From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 470 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 16491 times:



Quoting 474218 (Reply 6):
The following should answer your question:

http://www.warrantyweek.com/archive/....html

Thanks, it was a good article.



Civil Aviation has a "Need for Speed"!
User currently offlineSpacecadet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3630 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (6 years 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 16259 times:



Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 3):
Unfortunately the media latched onto the poor old DC-10, wrongly blaming the aircraft for a couple of crashes and terrifying the public.

It wasn't wrongly blamed. The plane did suffer from several design flaws that contributed to the accidents that I think you're talking about, and these flaws were noted as contributing factors in the accident reports (ie. I'm not just making this up). For example, its cargo door design was partly blamed in the Turkish Airlines crash. The engine pylons were also problematic but were never redesigned as far as I remember - they were updated in the DC-10-40 and MD-11, however. Ditto for the lack of hydraulic fuses.

Airplanes can go through all manner of testing, but there's just no way to catch absolutely everything that's going to happen to an airplane after a number of cycles and hours in the air. Computer modeling can only go so far, and real-world testing just can't test for years worth of service. So the DC-10 wasn't the first plane to crash in part due to design flaws, and it probably won't be the last either. That's just reality.



I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (6 years 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 16056 times:



Quoting Olympic472 (Reply 8):
Thanks, it was a good article.

Happy to be of assistance.

In the case of foam that has come adrift between the window scratch pane and the inner window pane. Singapore Airlines will do the repair and than charge Airbus for the labor required to rectify the problem.

The purpose of that foam prevent (or at least dampen) the rattle of the scratch pane.


User currently offlineTonystan From Ireland, joined Jan 2006, 1443 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (6 years 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 15392 times:

Well its better then having a few dead trapped insects at the bottom of the window which is regular on most other aircraft!!!


My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
User currently offlineDeaphen From India, joined Jul 2005, 1427 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (6 years 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 14657 times:



Quoting Tonystan (Reply 11):
Well its better then having a few dead trapped insects at the bottom of the window which is regular on most other aircraft!!!

Or a Frog!

 Smile



I want every single airport and airplane in India to be on A.net!
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6407 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (6 years 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 14539 times:

On my last SQ flight (in a 744), the cabin crew kept having to deal with a large piece of rubber molding that went around the top of the galley, and was apparently loose. Well, we hit turbulence quite a few times on our flight, and each time, this large piece of rubber would flop loose and start hanging down into the aisle on that side of the galley...  Smile It was funny watching the usually well-composed Singapore girls (and guys) getting frustrated by this large piece of rubber  laughing 


Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6407 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (6 years 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 14374 times:



Quoting Spacecadet (Reply 9):
It wasn't wrongly blamed. The plane did suffer from several design flaws that contributed to the accidents that I think you're talking about, and these flaws were noted as contributing factors in the accident reports (ie. I'm not just making this up). For example, its cargo door design was partly blamed in the Turkish Airlines crash.

That was McDonnell's contribution to the Douglas name. McDonnell's engineers were taught to only design "to spec" (i.e. make a part do what you said it would, and nothing else). Douglas Aircraft company, being an engineering company run by engineers, used to over-engineer everything, and McDonnell management started to put the quash on that...even on civil aircraft. But alas, we digress...  Sad



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineBraybuddy From Ireland, joined Aug 2004, 5758 posts, RR: 32
Reply 15, posted (6 years 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 14327 times:



Quoting Spacecadet (Reply 9):
It wasn't wrongly blamed. The plane did suffer from several design flaws that contributed to the accidents that I think you're talking about, and these flaws were noted as contributing factors in the accident reports (ie. I'm not just making this up).

While I take your point, it was only after the three crashes within months of each other (in 1979, I think) that seemed to generate the hysteria. Whatever about the AA Chicago crash (which I thought was blamed on the airline's method of removing the entire engine/pylon, instead of separately), there was the Mexico City one, where the plane landed on the wrong runway, hitting a vehicle; and then there was the Air New Zealand whiteout crash in the Antarctic shortly afterwards. By that time the media were in hysterics about the aircraft, saying it was either faulty, or worse, jinxed.  sarcastic 


User currently offlineEBGARN From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 226 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 12681 times:



Quoting Braybuddy (Thread starter):
This was at at the window seats (around rows 57-57) on two out of three different aircraft, so I wonder how many other aircraft/rows are affected.

Funny, in June I noticed exactly the same symptom myself, on 9V-SKC, in 58K...



A306,A319/20/21,A332/3,A343/6,A380,B717,B727,B737,B744,B752/3,B763,B772/3/W,C-130,AN26,CRJ900,Il62,DC-8/9/10,MD80's,BaeR
User currently offlineLuv2cattlecall From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1650 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (6 years 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 12173 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Olympic472 (Reply 5):
Seriously, are there warranties on airliners?

Yep, and they double if they have a Good Housekeeping seal on their livery  Big grin





When you have to breaststroke to your connecting flight...it's a crash!
User currently offlineTomFoolery From Austria, joined Jan 2004, 529 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (6 years 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 11827 times:

Trust me, the airlines and Airbus take "Optical Quality" very serious. Something as minute as alignment of the woodgrain on the decor to tread patterns on the ladders to the crew rest areas to the possibility of part markings being visible are looked at very closely. I have heard stories of disagreements over scratches vs. machine marks on bare metal panels. Everything can come into question during the customer walk-through inspection.

I have no doubt that there are Engineers and Quality managers scrambling over a root cause analysis and corrective action plan for this foam. As was previously pointed out, the access is the issue, so the aircraft will need a bit of time on a MX turn before this can be corrected, this is not something that can be done during an in-service turn-around (they will likely replace the seals on the entire a/c).

Likely cause:
Condensation has weakened the adhesive that holds the part in place.

tom



Paper makes an airplane fly
User currently offlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4655 posts, RR: 19
Reply 19, posted (6 years 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 10475 times:

Braybuddy,

The AA DC10 crash in Chicago, despite the poor maintenance practice would not have happened if one of the slats had not retracted with the hydraulic system failure while the other remained extended

A simple lockout device a la Boeing or Lockeed would have ensured both slats stayed out avoiding this tragedy.

It was another design caused accident unfortunately.



The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
User currently offlineB6JFKH81 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2894 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (6 years 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 10009 times:



Quoting Olympic472 (Reply 5):
Seriously, are there warranties on airliners?

Considering this is a new aircraft and a new aircraft type, Airbus will probably release a service bulletin once engineering figures out what the exact issue is and how it needs to be rectified by the OEM of the seals or whatever is causing the issue. Once the SB is released, chances are there will be a modification for existing aircraft with free-of-charge materials, and the SB will be incorporated into the new aircraft rolling off the line so no retrofit will be needed. So, in essence, yeah it should be covered.

EMBQA can tell you that when B6 brought the E190 online, there were a few quirky things like this that needed to be rectified, and the aforementioned procedure was pretty much how it got done. (Those were fun times weren't they EMBQA?) Obviously for the more complex aircraft components the procedure gets more complex, but this is kind of how it will be rectified in a nutshell.



"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
User currently offlineBrightCedars From Belgium, joined Nov 2004, 1289 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (6 years 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 6602 times:



Quoting KELPkid (Reply 13):
On my last SQ flight (in a 744), the cabin crew kept having to deal with a large piece of rubber molding that went around the top of the galley, and was apparently loose.

Funny you mentioned this, as I have witnessed it myself on several SQ flights on the 744 in the past 10 years. Must be a recurrent problem.



I want the European Union flag on airliners.net!
User currently offlineCloudyapple From Hong Kong, joined Jul 2005, 2454 posts, RR: 10
Reply 22, posted (6 years 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 6380 times:



Quoting KELPkid (Reply 13):
On my last SQ flight (in a 744), the cabin crew kept having to deal with a large piece of rubber molding that went around the top of the galley, and was apparently loose. Well, we hit turbulence quite a few times on our flight, and each time, this large piece of rubber would flop loose and start hanging down into the aisle on that side of the galley...   It was funny watching the usually well-composed Singapore girls (and guys) getting frustrated by this large piece of rubber   



Quoting BrightCedars (Reply 21):
Funny you mentioned this, as I have witnessed it myself on several SQ flights on the 744 in the past 10 years. Must be a recurrent problem.

Honestly SIA's aircraft are not the best maintained in the world. Ever wondered why they get rid of their aircraft after only 12 years on average while other airlines keep planes for 20 years?

But the A380 issue must be to do with build quality. It's only been a few months in service. Those rubber seals are supposed to be able to keep themselves in place to keep other things out. It's only a minor issue tho.



A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
User currently offlineSandyb123 From UK - Scotland, joined Oct 2007, 1119 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 6070 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Strange, I was just wondering about why there was a utility crane looking at one of Singapore's A380s at SYD today (about 12 noon local), so that answers it? Although is this not something that would be fixed from within the aircraft by removing panels?

Sandyb123



Member of the mile high club
User currently offlineBrilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4301 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (6 years 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4967 times:



Quoting Tonystan (Reply 11):
Well its better then having a few dead trapped insects at the bottom of the window which is regular on most other aircraft!!!

Let me know what airlines you fly so I can avoid them. I am rather concerned when I see bugs any where let alone on an airplane. I have never seen that before. I have seen minor problems with interiors that happen from time to time on older aircraft but not on new aircraft.



Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
What's Happening To MEA posted Fri Aug 4 2006 15:38:46 by Luisinho
What Happening To PH-BTC posted Mon Oct 31 2005 19:14:24 by Fkruiver
What's Happening To EC-DIB? posted Fri Sep 16 2005 12:13:46 by Thowman
What's Happening To Swiss' European Fleet Tomorrow posted Sun Jan 16 2005 21:42:26 by Mozart
What's Happening To South African 744's? posted Fri Sep 3 2004 06:37:44 by Jonniesa
What's Happening To The MD-11 Fleet? posted Sun Nov 16 2003 18:32:23 by Duke
What's Happening To The Flight Engineers? posted Thu Nov 6 2003 02:25:12 by Dtw757
What's Happening To CO? posted Mon Jan 6 2003 18:44:23 by Kaitak
What's Happening To The Iran Air A330's? posted Thu Feb 7 2002 21:28:58 by Airmale
What's Happening To TWA's New York JFK Terminal? posted Fri Nov 16 2001 02:33:48 by Crosswind
What's Happening To The Flight Engineers? posted Thu Nov 6 2003 02:25:12 by Dtw757
What's Happening To CO? posted Mon Jan 6 2003 18:44:23 by Kaitak
What's Happening To The Iran Air A330's? posted Thu Feb 7 2002 21:28:58 by Airmale
What's Happening To TWA's New York JFK Terminal? posted Fri Nov 16 2001 02:33:48 by Crosswind
What's Happening To EC-DIB? posted Fri Sep 16 2005 12:13:46 by Thowman
What's Happening To Swiss' European Fleet Tomorrow posted Sun Jan 16 2005 21:42:26 by Mozart
What's Happening To South African 744's? posted Fri Sep 3 2004 06:37:44 by Jonniesa
What's Happening To The MD-11 Fleet? posted Sun Nov 16 2003 18:32:23 by Duke
What's Happening To The Flight Engineers? posted Thu Nov 6 2003 02:25:12 by Dtw757
What's Happening To CO? posted Mon Jan 6 2003 18:44:23 by Kaitak
What's Happening To The Iran Air A330's? posted Thu Feb 7 2002 21:28:58 by Airmale
What's Happening To TWA's New York JFK Terminal? posted Fri Nov 16 2001 02:33:48 by Crosswind
What's Happening To EC-DIB? posted Fri Sep 16 2005 12:13:46 by Thowman
What's Happening To Swiss' European Fleet Tomorrow posted Sun Jan 16 2005 21:42:26 by Mozart
What's Happening To South African 744's? posted Fri Sep 3 2004 06:37:44 by Jonniesa
What's Happening To The MD-11 Fleet? posted Sun Nov 16 2003 18:32:23 by Duke
What's Happening To The Flight Engineers? posted Thu Nov 6 2003 02:25:12 by Dtw757
What's Happening To CO? posted Mon Jan 6 2003 18:44:23 by Kaitak
What's Happening To The Iran Air A330's? posted Thu Feb 7 2002 21:28:58 by Airmale
What's Happening To TWA's New York JFK Terminal? posted Fri Nov 16 2001 02:33:48 by Crosswind