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Denver, "The Sleeping Giant?"  
User currently offlineDIA From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3273 posts, RR: 28
Posted (13 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1807 times:

This seems to be a hot topic.

Denver is in the forefront of gaining more international nonstops. Many of you say "it won't happen." Many others say "Denver is the next gateway city to the world." I think that the truth is somewhere in between.

Denver is a hot topic right now for Air France, ANA, JAL.
Lufthansa is starting their nonstop to Germany any day now using an A340. BA has a packed flight everyday on their 744. United is set to start their nonstop to Germany with a 777. Canada traffic has shot through the roof. Mexico is as strong as ever too.

DIA will never be an LAX or JFK. It will be attractive to many travelers who wish to fly through an updated and uncrowded hub.

The next ten years will show that the "Giant" is waking up to new potential not realized before.


Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
105 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTravelin man From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3463 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (13 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1607 times:

I agree with you that DEN has a lot of growth potential. In my response to BA in the Korean Airlines post, I was specifically pointing out the fact that Korean Airlines most definitely pulled out due to lack of demand (20% load factor to me indicates a lack of demand).

As you said, there will be some new service in the future. Lufthansa is beginning their flight soon. (British Airways is a daily 777, not 744 by the way).

However, many airlines have reduced or cut service entirely, including Korean Airlines and Air Canada with their YUL flight.

DEN is a nice airport. But you are correct when you say it will never be LAX, JFK, or ORD in terms of international destinations/carriers. But I'm sure it will grow. Maybe DEN could start with a non-stop to Hawaii...


User currently offlineDIA From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3273 posts, RR: 28
Reply 2, posted (13 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1572 times:

KAL 744Combi service was a flop.

I saw the BA 744 three weeks ago. I thought they went from a 777 to a 744 a while back and have used it since. Have they really switched back? If they did, is it because BA wants to pull all 747 service out of Gatwick?

I see Air Canada's A320s and A319s at DIA all the time, although I don't remember their destinations.

DEN had a nonstop to Honolulu from UA and Continental when Stapleton was in use. What happened?



Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
User currently offlineWatewate From Canada, joined Nov 2000, 2284 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (13 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1561 times:

On DEN-HNL,
Continental pulled out of Denver completely and United would rather have those low-yield passengers transit through SFO rather than tie up a/cs on a route that won't make much money (if any). Hawaii flights are filled with tourists and FF miles redeemers.


User currently offlineDIA From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3273 posts, RR: 28
Reply 4, posted (13 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1552 times:

Continental still serves Newark, Cleveland, and Houston from DIA.

About the HNL pullouts, I agree. It all comes down to money and, well, money.




Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
User currently offlineTravelin man From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3463 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (13 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1546 times:

The 744 may have been a substitution, but the current schedule indicates the BA flights are 777s.

As far as HNL goes, with 2 hubs on the west coast (LAX & SFO), United is trying to funnel Hawaii traffic through there. United even cut its ORD-HNL flight (although this was more to do with the crew rest areas on 2-class 777s than anything).


User currently offlineWatewate From Canada, joined Nov 2000, 2284 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (13 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1544 times:

I meant to say CO shut down its hub operations, not pulling out of the market completely. Sorry for any confusions.

User currently offlineDIA From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3273 posts, RR: 28
Reply 7, posted (13 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1516 times:

United and Frontier have hubs at DIA.

Who would be the most likely to set up shop next?

American was looking at it, but the TWA St. Louis hub pretty much swamps that idea.



Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
User currently offlineWishihadalife From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (13 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1521 times:

DIA is a joke.

No other airline is gonna hub there until they reduce their fees. And perhaps move closer to town.


User currently offlineRedraider From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 531 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (13 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1501 times:

1. Why would AA establish a hub, or significantly increase their presence in DEN and go head to head, nose to nose with UA in another market, this time at a decided disadvantage due to UA's long-standing presence there?

2. Regarding JAL, while the DEN market may appeal to the Japanese, in this day and age, its all about connections and code-shares. ANA seems to me a much more logical choice to start any DEN service because of the ties with UA through the Star Alliance.

my $.02



My wife can't wrestle, but you should see her box.
User currently offlineAmpropilot2b From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 138 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (13 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1500 times:

Was American really looking at Denver as potential hub (NO, I'm not asking for sources lol...) ? That would really make things interesting! While DEN is nothing like ORD, it would be interesting to see AA and UA competing for yet another hub  Smile Fares would definitly fall!!! I know that the people of Denver are itching for more competition...maybe a substantial presence by another major would be the catalyst DEN needs.

Just my thought....

Ampropilot2b


User currently offlineMikeybien From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (13 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 1455 times:

Don't count on anyone else moving into denver. Denver would have been far better off had stapleton stayed open. DIA was built because some forecaster predicted a similar "sleeping giant" in the 80's. Total passenger volume out of denver actually only marginally increased since 88', making DIA pretty much a huge waste of tax dollars. Stapleton had less runways and they were pretty much on top of eachother, but i could care less about a few weather delays if the fares were lowered back to the way they were when stapleton was in operation. Continental also might have kept their hub operation intact if it wasn't for "pena's folly". Even if they didn't, AA might have moved in to take their place back then. UA has shown no love for the citizens of denver and i believe united would have nothing to do with denver if ORD had an unlimited amount of slots.

User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 12, posted (13 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 1455 times:

DEN is pretty cool. It will never be a ORD, LAX, or JFK, I knew that all along. Yes some flights were a flop, but Korean Air's flight was not pulled out completely due to lack of demand. There was a good amount of travelers who connected in SFO and continued on to SEL on United.


"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineWISHIHADALIFE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (13 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 1458 times:

Yeah BA, you knew it all along. How old were you when it was completed? 9 or 10?

User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 14, posted (13 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1442 times:

WISHIHADALIFE,
I NEVER said that DEN would become an international gateway like LAX, ORD, JFK, etc. NEVER. All I said was that Denver is on many international airlines lists.

I was 11 when it was completed.



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineAn-225 From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 3950 posts, RR: 41
Reply 15, posted (13 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1444 times:

I think during winter months BA operates 777 and then it goes back to 747-400. I saw BA 747-400 in DIA many times. Of course, DEN will never be like ORD, JFK or LAX - but it might come close. I hope we see more international traffic down here. By the way, Lufthansa starts their Frankfurt service on March 25th, using A - 340-300. I will be there when it arrives.


Money does not bring you happiness. But it's better to cry in your own private limo than on a cold bus stop.
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 16, posted (13 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1437 times:

One more thing,
I'm not going to argue with you today. I have better things to do. So save whatever you have to say against me.



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineDIA From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3273 posts, RR: 28
Reply 17, posted (13 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1419 times:

In terms of the distance from the heart of Denver, 25 miles, that was part of the city's "master plan." It would eventually lure new businesses and/or existing ones to spark new growth in unused areas. The growth that has occured is on target - according to the Denver Business Journal. The growth that is slated to occur over the next five to eight years actually fills in much of the unused land between Denver and DIA. One of those big buildings going up is actually Frontier's new headquarters. The airport also has another major highway joining it to the "second highway ring" of Denver. The other highway is I-70.

Again, I think DIA has a lot of potential, yes on the national and international scene.



Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
User currently offlinePendrilsaint From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 685 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (13 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1418 times:

It will have potential once it gets a new concourse underway...but even I noticed that there were in fact new businesses shooting up along the area traveling to DIA....And they sure do have the space to grow on....heh...it looks like you are going to land in a cornfield if you are landing on 35L until the last second....so there is a lot to go on from here...

User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 19, posted (13 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1414 times:

Yes, Denver does have a lot of growth opportunities in its future, since the FAA has lifted some restrictions, and will lift more as soon as the 16,000ft. runway is completed.


"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineDIA77 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 704 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (13 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1406 times:

Every new airport has it's critics (tight ass people who aren't too concerned with future infrastructure). Sure, some airports will end up like DFW and some will end up like MCI. DEN was planned so well that I imagine it will follow in the footsteps of DFW. A 4-5 billion dollar sounds like a bargain these days. Anyway here in Chicago we are going through a new airport debate. I personally think that O'Hare should be expanded, but maybe I'm just starting to become one of those tight ass critics. DEN is a masterpiece and in another couple of years I imagine any critics that remain will jump on the bandwagon. Good thing that Chicago and Denver have some mayors with foresight!

User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 7986 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (13 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1407 times:

DEN could be an important airport in terms of winter tourism.

The reason is simple: DEN is close to Aspen, Steamboat Springs, Telluride and Vail, all major winter sports tourism destinations. I think the Colorado tourism authorities should better emphasize this fact and encourage foreign airlines to fly winter schedules from LHR, CDG, FRA and MXP to cater to this crowd.


User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 22, posted (13 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1404 times:

Another reason why Denver has a good opportunity is because its a major Gateway to different parts of the U.S. Its the 10th busiest airport in the world, to almost every city with a commerical airport in the U.S. (almost). This is the reason why British Airways decided to begin service.


"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineUs330 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 3866 posts, RR: 14
Reply 23, posted (13 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1388 times:

BA, Denver does not have service to almost every city with a commercial airport. Does Denver have nonstop service to Waco, Texas? Lubbock? Hartford? I think you should have rephrased your statement to read that Denver has service to almost every major city in the U.S. I have news for you: saying DIA is a major gateway ain't saying much. It doesn't make DIA anymore unique than DFW, ORD, SFO, LAX, SEA,MIA, JFK,BOS,YYZ, YVR, STL, ATL, CVG, CLE, IAH, DTW, MSP, PHX, SLC etc., all of which are considered to be major gateways to different parts of the U.S.

User currently offlineMikeybien From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (13 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 1373 times:

Sure DIA is a nice airport, but it wasn't needed and still isn't needed. Even after years of unprecedented growth, DIA still only handled 38 million passengers last year, a small increase over the 34 million stapleton moved over a decade earlier. For 5 billion dollars, the citizens of denver got a shiny new airport with less gates than the old one. Sure, you can fly pretty much anywhere you want, but you better bring the bank when you're trying to buy a ticket.

25 Ampropilot2b : Well, don't ask me for sources or anything like that, but I really think that DIA was a good decision...okay not at the time it was made, but today. F
26 WISHIHADALIFE : How's the baggage system working?? Is it fixed yet?
27 DeltAirlines : Actually, I believe that UA does fly DEN-BDL, and they are looking at MHT-DEN. The 16000 ft runway will open the airport up more, and I do see Air Fra
28 Flashmeister : CO pulled out of DEN not because of the construction of DIA, but because it didn't fit with their recovery plan: they needed to concentrate on EWR, si
29 DIA : I just read in Flight International Feb20-26 issue that Ansett wants to start service to Denver and Chicago using A340s from Singapore Airlines. They
30 Wishihadalife : Ooooh... Flight International... they know EVERYTHING and they are ALWAYS accurate. The only thing worse than teenage amateur industry analysts are th
31 BA : WishIhadalife, You have not been any help or have not provided any sources on this board. All you do is whine. "Ooooh... Flight International... they
32 Mikeybien : While passenger traffic has increased 10%, it is also important to note most of the 34 million moved by stapleton was done in smaller narrow-body jets
33 Wishihadalife : BA - you annoy me. But its heartening to see that I annoy you too. One day, when you realize that there is a big world outside of destinations served
34 BA : I have been to Europe more than 10 times in my life. Don't tell me I don't know whats out there. I've even been to the Middle East. I've been to MIA,
35 BA : Yes, I am young, I'm not saying I'm not. Yes, I don't know everything about the world.. But your making it sound as if I don't know anything, like a 4
36 B747-437B : Jeez BA, lighten up will you! Professor Vlad is just yanking your chain and you are falling for it hook, line and sinker. I am sure you are probably o
37 Booyala : Well I'm 15 turning 16 soon, big difference. I'm about to get my driving permit Damn, you are sooo old and experienced. I wish I could be like you.
38 Wishihadalife : BA my dear young friend. A driving permit is all well and good, but a boy truly becomes a man when he learns to change his own diapers.
39 BA : Okay.....I don't quite understand that, but okay. Driving permit was just to prove to you, that I'm not a 4 or 5 year old. Thats all.
40 Booyala : If you were four or five you wouldn't be able to put together complete sentences. Then again....
41 B747-437B : Some people never learn. *sigh*
42 BA : B747-437B, Haven't you noticed that I have ignored your last 3 posts? I told you, I am not going to argue with you. Think whatever you want. For all I
43 B747-437B : Ummm? My last 3 posts? Considering that I have only 2 posts on this thread, I think you may be confusing me with someone else. Its highly amusing to w
44 BA : Your 3rd post is in the Korean Air post that I made. All you have been doing is criticising EVERYTHING I say. THAT is why I told you that I'm not goin
45 B747-437B : Actually, if you bother to read my posts on this topic, you will notice that I included a rather substantial paragraph on the viability of DEN and an
46 FLY777UAL : BA, if you had any brains, you'd give up before the three of them beat you into further submission... F L Y 7 7 7 U A L
47 BA : Yes, I have MANY friends. What do you mean "way too thin skinned", you say that a lot but I have never understood what you meant.
48 BA : FLY777UAL, You are making it sound as if this is a war. Well its not.
49 FLY777UAL : BA, repeat after me: "I'm rubber and you're glue. Whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you." F L Y 7 7 7 U A L
50 Wishihadalife : BA - do you have any friends other that are not inflatable? Or attached to your right arm?
51 BA : FLY777UAL, You should've realized this earlier. The BEST thing for you to do, is stay out of this conversation.
52 Post contains images Ampropilot2b : FLY777UAL...I know you are but what am I.....
53 BA : Wishihadalife, Do you have anything smart or intelligent to say? I have not heard ONE thing from you that actually makes sense. What a childish questi
54 Post contains images FLY777UAL : BA... At first I felt sorry for you, being picked on and all...but now, I have to make fun of you for being so...so...you. Ampropilot2b- I'm telling m
55 FLY777UAL : BA, suck up a little of your own advice, buddy. "...if you don't have anything smart or intelligent to say, don't say it at all..." F L Y 7 7 7 U A L
56 BA : Tell me, what all of a sudden changed your mind about me? You have not told me the reason yet. You always say "You have been beat", when this is not a
57 Booyala : I haven't had this much fun since Seinfeld was cancelled...
58 FLY777UAL : This is making my afternoon great! How my feelings were changed towards you (and by the way, why I haven't told you why my feelings toward you have ch
59 BA : Okay, I agree with you, that they will not say that I am right. Your right on that. However, I have not been beaten. They have not shown me ANY proof
60 ScottB : I had to laugh when I read RayChuang's post about encouraging winter tourism from Europe to DEN. Yup, Europeans are going to fly 11 hours to Denver, t
61 Post contains images FLY777UAL : F L Y 7 7 7 U A L
62 Watewate : BA, I think the twenty-something percent load on SFO-DEN-SFO routing on KE 744 is an indication for a lack of demand. No airline in its right ind woul
63 WISHIHADALIFE : "83 people on a 747-400" I don't care if they are transporting bars of gold as cargo, 83 people on a 747 is a ridiculous load factor that would cause
64 BA : ScottB, I've been on BA's LGW-DEN flight 3 times. You are incorrect when you say that Europeans are not going to travel to Denver to ski. About 90% of
65 BA : Light load factor was one of the reasons. However, they have been flying for 3 years to Denver, and they had on average 83 pax per flight. However, th
66 B747-437B : BA - the more I read, the more I realize that you are completely full of sh*t. You obviously mean well, but you are completely unable to understand th
67 DIA : Dating back to my last post, there are reasons why Ansett would want to start service to Denver and/or Chicago O'Hare, BA. One being Ansett's partners
68 BA : FLY777UAL, The image did not show up.
69 BA : B747-437B, What do you think I've been doing before I posted the Korean Air post? RESEARCHING! Now you may find it hard to believe, but its the truth.
70 BA : I got this email from Denver Int'l Airport Public Relations: ------------------------------------------------------ It was a combination of things: Th
71 B747-437B : BA - its one thing to research the facts and quite another to research the underlying concepts. The concept is what allows you to make sense out of th
72 BA : Read the email that I got from Public Relations.
73 Wishihadalife : What do you expect PR people to say? "Korean Air could not make money from this route because we bungled bigtime by building this monstrosity of an ai
74 BA : Let me tell you something Wishihadalife, your making too big of a deal about the landing prices to Denver. Is it really affect Denver's traffic that m
75 Post contains images Shawn Patrick : Why do Denver posts always end up in an argument? Shawn
76 ScottB : Yes, I know I can tell just by looking at someone that they are flying somewhere to ski. It must be because they have their skis up in the overhead bi
77 BA : ScottB, Not all of the passengers were going to Vail. Some were going to Aspen, and some just came here to hike. Colorado isn't just skiing. As for fl
78 Mikeybien : BA, have you ever been to stapleton? The aircraft almost never took off on the east/west runways, and even if they did the denver skyline is south of
79 Jomama : BA, were your BA flights in the summer?
80 Post contains images BA : Yes, I've been to Stapleton many times. Yes, Denver is getting sued for noise violations. The residents of Denver can't take a bit of noise. They shou
81 ScottB : How much hiking do people do in Colorado during the winter? All I can say is brrrrrrrr. Most transatlantic flights take a northerly route over the Atl
82 BA : Jomama, Two of them were in the summer on the 747. The other was in winter on the 777.
83 Jomama : 90% of the flights were full of skiiers? Were they water skiing?
84 BA : ScottB, MOST landings were from the east. Planes NEVER took off to the west, the airport is way too close to the mountains, the planes wouldn't make i
85 Post contains images B747-437B : This has gone from the sublime to the ridiculous. Are we ready for our Colorado geography lesson today?
86 Mikeybien : The funny thing is the people who are complaining about the noise now are from the countryside. At least they have some right to, they were there firs
87 BA : Jomama, Water ski? You've got to be kidding me. Colorado is almost as dry as a desert. There aren't many bodies of water, and they are very small. And
88 B747-437B : BA - pray tell me - what does a "business man" look like?
89 Post contains images BA : Mikeybien, I know its crazy how people are complaining about the noise. They should move to Chicago, its even worse! I'm serious, they are such whiner
90 Post contains images SEVEN_FIFTY7 : I think all of you are being to hard on BA. For Christsakes, let him have his fun. Why not allow him to believe that DEN is this big, all-important, w
91 Post contains images BA : I do miss Stapleton a lot. Everytime I pass by it, I remember how it was in the old days. They should've kept Stapleton running as well. B747-437B, Si
92 BA : SEVEN_FIFTY7, For one thing, I NEVER said that Denver would become an international gateway. NEVER. I said that it will recieve more international tra
93 Wishihadalife : BA - Everything you say is just plain stupid. I laugh everytime I read it.
94 BA : Wishihadalife, Do I care? No.........
95 Flyinryan99 : Wish - why don't you go out and find a life other then ripping on someone who's obviously interested in the industry. "BA - Everything you say is just
96 WISHIHADALIFE : What's the status of the state of the art baggage system? Is it still ripping bags apart?
97 DrukAir_BAe146 : This thread I have read and I think to laugh when read it to me. If the BA person is to live in my country, we will stone him for being so stupid. Hah
98 Post contains images BA : WISHIHADALIFE, No, they fixed the bug in the baggage system computer. There hasn't been a problem for quite some time now. Flyinryan99, Thanks
99 WISHIHADALIFE : Flyinrayn99- I actually care very deeply about aviation and that is the reason why I am here. I try to smack some reality into these kids that have no
100 WISHIHADALIFE : Glad to hear that they finally fixed the baggage system, nothing like spending years and years to get it right.
101 BA : WISHIHADALIFE, I know VERY well what I am talking about. Apparently, all you do on this board it whine and complain about posts! I have never read a p
102 WISHIHADALIFE : Have it your way.
103 Post contains images B747-437B : "Have it your way" Thats aviation related! Think John Dasburg!
104 Flyinryan99 : Wish - act your freeking age (76 - 85) which comes out to be what.... 10 or 11??? Let them freeking talk their stuff....You're making it ten times wor
105 Mikeybien : FYI- the baggage system at DIA never really got "fixed". The system was intended move bags to and from every gate in the airport without human interac
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