Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
I Need Info On A US Airways Diversion For Fuel  
User currently offlineWhappeh From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 1563 posts, RR: 2
Posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 4488 times:

It was in the past 2 days, going SAN-PHL. Anyone out there that can give me any info on this flight would be appreciated. I have no flight numbers or times, but there couldn't of been too many that fit this description.


-Travel now, journey infinitely.
14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23302 posts, RR: 20
Reply 1, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 4461 times:

Looks like it was Flight 1500 yesterday... stopped off in Pittsburgh.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/A...0/history/20080924/1834Z/KSAN/KPIT

They filed a flight plan all the way to PHL when they took off (note that the arrival is BOJID1, a PHL STAR), seemingly indicating that they decided to go to PIT while in the air. It's interesting, as 1510 went all the way yesterday, and 1510 is a 321 while 1500 is a 320.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineWhappeh From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 1563 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 4453 times:

Cheers for the info. Exactly what I needed.


-Travel now, journey infinitely.
User currently offlineApodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4317 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 4249 times:

I don't think this was a planned fuel stop if it was filed on the BOJID. PHL has been hit by a double whammy of 17-35 being under construction all week, and an East Operation, which means they only have had one landing runway most of the week, and there have been delays every day. Given this, its possible that they were told that they were going to be held going in,
or they burned more fuel than planned due to ATC requirements. I don't think it was a mechanical since they only took 30 minutes on the ground though.


User currently offlinePHLwok From United States of America, joined May 2007, 527 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4124 times:

I walked by 1500 parked at a gate in PIT last night. I almost asked to be put on this "earlier" PIT-PHL flight until I realized it wasn't supposed to be in PIT at all. It was only at the gate for about 25 min, and when we had a decent amount of vectoring near JST, holding near MDT, and slow speeds on my flight (US 1450 PIT-PHL) later on, I assumed 1500 had a fuel stop rather than a medical or mechanical diversion.

To add insult to injury, it looks like 1500 got into a decent hold on the diversion recovery PIT-PHL leg (http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AWE1500/history/20080924/2315Z/KPIT/KPHL).


User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4077 times:

Quoting Whappeh (Reply 2):
Cheers for the info. Exactly what I needed.

Writing a letter?

As my dispatcher compadre Apodino has mentioned, PHL has a construction project going on, and it only exacerbates the "normal" problems there, especially when on an east flow.

Just idle speculation based on experience, but another possibility is that they were fueled for a certain expected amount of holding time (based on FSM data for their ETA), and while enroute from SAN, things got backed up at PHL and the actual arrival demand at their ETA would now entail a longer hold, thus PIT was a proactive landing short of destination (to avoid a hold closer to PHL and a likely diversion).

(FSM stands for flight schedule monitor, an ATC computer program, and one airline dispatch offices also use. Based on actual flying times, it'll provide ETAs at the selected airport, and it's easy to see where the "peaks and valleys" of arrival demand are).

[Edited 2008-09-25 18:21:40]

User currently offlineApodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4317 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4061 times:



Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 5):
(FSM stands for flight schedule monitor, and ATC computer program, and one airline dispatch offices also use. Based on actual flying times, it'll provide ETAs at the selected airport, and it's easy to see where the "peaks and valleys" of arrival demand are).

Only problem is we don't have access to FSM at my company, and we have to rely on a web based tool instead that provides somewhat similar info. Here is a link to it if anyone is interested in viewing it. If you play with it during the deay, you can quickly see why certain airports are constantly having problems.

http://fly.faa.gov/Products/AADC/aadc.html


User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4031 times:



Quoting Apodino (Reply 6):
Only problem is we don't have access to FSM at my company,

Too bad, as it's a great tool---I wish all dispatch offices had it available..


User currently offlineWhappeh From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 1563 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3964 times:



Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 5):
Writing a letter?

Actually trying to help an e-friend who had a sibling on this flight and was raising hell about the fact that the flight "Took off with out enough fuel" and I was trying to explain the situation to him.



-Travel now, journey infinitely.
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3839 times:



Quoting Whappeh (Reply 8):
Actually trying to help an e-friend who had a sibling on this flight and was raising hell about the fact that the flight "Took off with out enough fuel" and I was trying to explain the situation to him.

Good deal. If you want, have him email me at daopnlguy@yahoo.com and I can give a dispatcher's perspective. It's quite common for folks to take a diversion and retroactively (and erroneously) conclude that "there wasn't enough fuel onboard" etc. etc., but it's more complicated than that by virtue of all the variables involved.


User currently offlineApodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4317 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3617 times:



Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 7):
Too bad, as it's a great tool---I wish all dispatch offices had it available..

I've asked for it. The reason they give us is because we don't control our slots during delay programs (USAirways does), there is no need for us to have it. I don't buy it though. The fact that we don't even have an ATC specialist to help out the dispatchers while we operate in the Northeast is very disturbing. As a dispatcher, I have to listen to the ATC telcons myself since the supervisors who listen to them (If they do), rarely share info from us on them, and they really aren't active working with ATC either. This office could be so much more, but unfortunately we have some managers who are stuck in the 70's (Our director of SOC has been there since 1968)


User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 3574 times:



Quoting Apodino (Reply 10):
As a dispatcher, I have to listen to the ATC telcons myself since the supervisors who listen to them (If they do), rarely share info from us on them, and they really aren't active working with ATC either.

One of the really great things about the SPT is that the various facilities chime-in with info on what they see. Last year, ZLC mentioned that there was some weather starting to build SW of the airport, moving to the NE, should impact SLC in about an hour. Naturally, the NWS's TAF didn't call for anything. I caught a DEN-SLC about 2 minutes before pushback, and got him taken care of, and the weather hit 17 minutes after he landed. That's when NWS amended SLC's TAF.


User currently offlineDukeofDashes From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 3559 times:



Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 11):
Last year, ZLC mentioned that there was some weather starting to build SW of the airport, moving to the NE, should impact SLC in about an hour. Naturally, the NWS's TAF didn't call for anything. I caught a DEN-SLC about 2 minutes before pushback, and got him taken care of, and the weather hit 17 minutes after he landed. That's when NWS amended SLC's TAF.

I haven't had too much experience with SLC TAFs, but I have seen DEN and other CO airports issue many of what I call RTAFs (Reactionary TAFs). I'm not sure if the folks from NWS in Colorado are just not as good as other areas, or if Colorado's weather is really that fickle and unpredictable. RTAFs are one of the most frustrating things a dispatcher has to deal with.


User currently offlineApodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4317 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 3543 times:



Quoting DukeofDashes (Reply 12):
I haven't had too much experience with SLC TAFs, but I have seen DEN and other CO airports issue many of what I call RTAFs (Reactionary TAFs). I'm not sure if the folks from NWS in Colorado are just not as good as other areas, or if Colorado's weather is really that fickle and unpredictable. RTAFs are one of the most frustrating things a dispatcher has to deal with.

We call it Aftcasting at my company. Seems to happen quite regularly in the Northeast. One time there was a huge snowstorm about 50 miles west of IAD, yet the NWS forecast for IAD called for VFR all day. Needless to say IAD got hammered with snow not long after that. Then the aftcast came out.


User currently offlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6118 posts, RR: 14
Reply 14, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 3541 times:



Quoting DukeofDashes (Reply 12):
I haven't had too much experience with SLC TAFs, but I have seen DEN and other CO airports issue many of what I call RTAFs (Reactionary TAFs).

We dispatchers tend to call them NOWcasts, or AFTcasts.  Smile

Quoting Apodino (Reply 10):
The reason they give us is because we don't control our slots during delay programs (USAirways does)

Even though UA controls our slots, we can still see the FSA. If we weren't able to, we couldn't see just how much UA screws us. Sometimes though, we can get away with bypassing UA if they are too busy to process a request.



Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Need Info On British Airways Executive Club posted Mon Jan 29 2001 11:54:52 by G-KIRAN
Some Help On US Airways For My Class posted Tue Apr 6 2004 19:28:20 by FlightLover
Need Info On Fuel Burn And Some Other Stuff posted Tue Feb 3 2004 02:25:27 by Elwood64151
Teens Arrested For Lighting Show On US Airways posted Mon Aug 5 2002 06:04:01 by Bigo747
IFE On US Airways' New Airbus Widebodies posted Mon Mar 17 2008 12:58:30 by 1337Delta764
New US Airways Uniforms For FAs, CSAs posted Sat Jan 26 2008 12:27:01 by Rolo987
MHT-BOS On US Airways? posted Fri Dec 28 2007 10:35:25 by COERJ145
Any Info On WN Charter/diversion To ABI? posted Mon Nov 26 2007 07:20:43 by Ssides
US Airways Applies For Bogota! posted Mon Oct 29 2007 10:32:47 by Jmc1975
Why No Safety Video On US Airways A330? posted Mon Sep 10 2007 22:21:32 by USAirALB
Some Help On US Airways For My Class posted Tue Apr 6 2004 19:28:20 by FlightLover
Need Info On Fuel Burn And Some Other Stuff posted Tue Feb 3 2004 02:25:27 by Elwood64151
Teens Arrested For Lighting Show On US Airways posted Mon Aug 5 2002 06:04:01 by Bigo747
IFE On US Airways' New Airbus Widebodies posted Mon Mar 17 2008 12:58:30 by 1337Delta764
New US Airways Uniforms For FAs, CSAs posted Sat Jan 26 2008 12:27:01 by Rolo987
MHT-BOS On US Airways? posted Fri Dec 28 2007 10:35:25 by COERJ145
Any Info On WN Charter/diversion To ABI? posted Mon Nov 26 2007 07:20:43 by Ssides
US Airways Applies For Bogota! posted Mon Oct 29 2007 10:32:47 by Jmc1975
Why No Safety Video On US Airways A330? posted Mon Sep 10 2007 22:21:32 by USAirALB