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Folding The Delta Shuttle Brand Into Mainline?  
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Posted (5 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6401 times:

I first heard of this in another post. It was sort of a comment and was not the focus of the discussion and I asked the person where and when they had heard of this. Either they didn't respond or I lost track of the thread and didn't get to see the answer (this was within the last 2 months).

So, has anyone heard that Delta has plans on getting rid of the Delta "Shuttle". Not really going away from the schedule but taking off the Shuttle cheat line, and converting the MDs back to the regular mainline cabin. Thus, we still have all the advantages such as the "shuttle" service" but with regular mainline Mad Dogs with first class.

Any thoughts?


What gets measured gets done.
42 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10427 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (5 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6344 times:

Might give some more flexibility to the mainline fleet. I wonder if the DC-9's might work on the Shuttle routes?

On a side note, I wonder how much money Delta Elite makes for the company or if it's about time to spin it off?



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4750 posts, RR: 44
Reply 2, posted (5 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6285 times:

Yeah there was a response in a thread in the not so distant past...  Wink

Net - current thinking is to not operate a dedicated fleet of shuttle a/c. Rotate reg MD88s thru the system with two-class svc (debate is offer FC as an upcharge, or reserved for first-come/first-serve Medallions...)



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (5 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6285 times:

I actually would not be surprised if Delta did as such; after all, fellow "shuttle" competitor US Airways has already done as such.

I actually would not be surprised if in the post-merger integration (Of course assuming they get DOJ approval.) if the Mad Dogs are slowly removed from the Shuttle routes and replaced with another a/c type (I would venture either the MD-90s or perhaps the return of the 738s or even crazier, A319/320s.). I could also see them adding the IFE system they use on their Transcontinental a/c. As for the cabin, I think they could do a modified variant of the mainline cabin. Offer slightly more legroom as well as a first class cabin. While US does use a/c directly from the US fleet, I think having a subfleet dedicated to the shuttle routes is not that bad of a thing. If you keep the layout close enough to the mainline layout, if you happen to sub some of the Shuttle fleet into the mainline on the weekends, you lessen the possibility of upsetting passengers.

As for doing away with the "shuttle" branding, even if they did, folks would still refer to those services as "the shuttle".


User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 84
Reply 4, posted (5 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 6060 times:



Quoting Mayor (Reply 1):
I wonder if the DC-9's might work on the Shuttle routes?

The DC-9 would destroy DL's noise budget. They've already had to eliminate the earliest and latest pair of flights due to switching to the MD-88.

NS


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (5 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5965 times:



Quoting Srbmod (Reply 3):

The branding isn't a bi issue. I think the whole point would be to get away from operating a sub-fleet. It would actually be a bonus to add F seats. I say sell it as F instead of operating the entire cabin as coach and offering the big seats to PMs, FOs, and SMs. Whatever little profit they can make, go ahead. Most of the dedicated folks will stick to their preferred carrier anyway (D E L T A or US Airways).

I would hope though, that they keep the level of service they offer.

Won't the 738s be too much a/c?



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineJetJeanes From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1431 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (5 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5936 times:

kinda odd and i dont know why in a stock forum on Nw they advised that nw was getting rid of their 757,s and either the 319,or 320 . The 757,s were their oldest ones,but there were no word on the dc-9,s??? I mean those 757,s came online what from republic in what 86???


i can see for 80 miles
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 84
Reply 7, posted (5 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5876 times:



Quoting JetJeanes (Reply 6):
kinda odd and i dont know why in a stock forum on Nw they advised that nw was getting rid of their 757,s and either the 319,or 320 .

There is NO chance of that. Maybe they could downsize the 757 fleet, but with all those MD-80s and DC-9s that have to go there is just NO WAY they will ground either the A319s or A320s.


NS


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (5 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5822 times:

I could actually see an across the board fleet reduction, including the 19s and 20s.


What gets measured gets done.
User currently onlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5274 posts, RR: 24
Reply 9, posted (5 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5784 times:



Quoting Gigneil (Reply 7):
There is NO chance of that. Maybe they could downsize the 757 fleet, but with all those MD-80s and DC-9s that have to go there is just NO WAY they will ground either the A319s or A320s.

Exactly! In fact, I would put money on the 737-700's leaving the fleet before they get rid of any of the A320s/A319s or all of NW's 757s.



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlinePilotboi From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 2366 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (5 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5773 times:



Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Thread starter):
taking off the Shuttle cheat line

That's already done. All shuttle aircraft (N908DE-N916DE) are in new colors, and without the shuttle title. They are still configured with coach only.


User currently offlineSxf24 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1262 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5746 times:



Quoting OA412 (Reply 9):
Exactly! In fact, I would put money on the 737-700's leaving the fleet before they get rid of any of the A320s/A319s or all of NW's 757s.

Um, they literally joined almost yesterday.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23014 posts, RR: 20
Reply 12, posted (5 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5746 times:



Quoting OA412 (Reply 9):
Exactly! In fact, I would put money on the 737-700's leaving the fleet before they get rid of any of the A320s/A319s or all of NW's 757s.

Why? If DL can make money keeping the M90s around at that subfleet's current size, certainly they can make money with 73Gs.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently onlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5274 posts, RR: 24
Reply 13, posted (5 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5733 times:



Quoting Sxf24 (Reply 11):

Um, they literally joined almost yesterday.

I'm aware of that but given the very large fleet of A319s that will soon be part of the DL fleet, does it really make sense to operate a fleet of 10 aircraft when the A319 can already do pretty much everything the 73G can?



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23014 posts, RR: 20
Reply 14, posted (5 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5728 times:



Quoting OA412 (Reply 13):
does it really make sense to operate a fleet of 10 aircraft when the A319 can already do pretty much everything the 73G can?

For a 738 operator, why not?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineLexy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2515 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (5 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5659 times:



Quoting Sxf24 (Reply 11):
Um, they literally joined almost yesterday.

Under no circumstance are the 737-700's going to leave the DL fleet. Not no way, not no how are they giving them up. That would be crazy to think that to begin with. If anything, they will ditch some of the older Airbii they will acquire from NW (granted the DOJ signs off on the merger of course). NW has already started parking some of the older Airbus in the desert because it's cheaper to park them than to have them flying and not making money for them in the long run due to mx. The 737's are staying and that's the end of that.

Currently, they use them for C. American flights, correct? If anything, you may see them start to utilize some domestically but I wouldn't put my money on it just yet.



Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4750 posts, RR: 44
Reply 16, posted (5 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5596 times:

-The 73Gs will not leave the fleet - in fact you may see a top-up order  Wink
-Some of the oldest NW 757s (5500 I believe?) and some older 320s may be retired given cost of HMVs

-Shuttle as a branded aircraft is done.



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offline727forever From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 793 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (5 years 11 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 5219 times:



Quoting Srbmod (Reply 3):
if the Mad Dogs are slowly removed from the Shuttle routes and replaced with another a/c type (I would venture either the MD-90s or perhaps the return of the 738s or even crazier, A319/320s.).

All of which with the exception of the A319 are too large for the present day demand of the Shuttle for both airlines. There is also the wear and tear issue on the CFM-56 of up down flights all day. DL had this issue with the 733 and 738 applications on the shuttle as well as Aloha when they operated the 734.

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 3):
I think having a subfleet dedicated to the shuttle routes is not that bad of a thing. If you keep the layout close enough to the mainline layout, if you happen to sub some of the Shuttle fleet into the mainline on the weekends, you lessen the possibility of upsetting passengers.

Traditionally they have loaded them into the system as a different version of the MD-8x series ahead of time and limited the number of seats sold. They are also used for charters quite a bit.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 13):
I'm aware of that but given the very large fleet of A319s that will soon be part of the DL fleet, does it really make sense to operate a fleet of 10 aircraft when the A319 can already do pretty much everything the 73G can?

Nearly, but not quite. The 73G is being used quite a bit for long and thin missions into tight places which it is better at than the 319.


727forever



727forever
User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6764 posts, RR: 32
Reply 18, posted (5 years 11 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 4544 times:



Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 5):
It would actually be a bonus to add F seats. I say sell it as F instead of operating the entire cabin as coach and offering the big seats to PMs, FOs, and SMs.

I'd wager that at peak hours, probably half the plane is PM or GM. Even though first class isn't available, the Shuttle fleet does offer better legroom than the standard MD-88.

However, it does appear that the dedicated Shuttle fleet is indeed going away:

http://www.delta.com/planning_reserv.../delta_shuttle_amenities/index.jsp


User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5438 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (5 years 11 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4431 times:



Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 16):
Shuttle as a branded aircraft is done.

To me, the shuttle ended when they stopped guaranteeing a seat to walk-up passengers.



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineJkudall From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 615 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (5 years 11 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4383 times:

In my opinion, replacing the md-88s with EMB-170s or 175s on the shuttle flights wouldn't be a bad idea. You can still use larger aircraft for peak times in the morning and evening but it doesn't make sense to me to use a larger aircraft on all those mid-day flights which are usually only half full anyways.

User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (5 years 11 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4120 times:



Quoting 727forever (Reply 17):
All of which with the exception of the A319 are too large for the present day demand of the Shuttle for both airlines. There is also the wear and tear issue on the CFM-56 of up down flights all day. DL had this issue with the 733 and 738 applications on the shuttle as well as Aloha when they operated the 734.

You could easily take out a few rows from an MD-90 to give the a/c the same pitch as the MD-88s on the route and have it hold slightly more than the MD-88s currently plying LGA-BOS and LGA-DCA. With the addition of the first class cabin to the Shuttle MD-88s, that will cut the capacity of those a/c further.

Quoting Jkudall (Reply 20):
In my opinion, replacing the md-88s with EMB-170s or 175s on the shuttle flights wouldn't be a bad idea. You can still use larger aircraft for peak times in the morning and evening but it doesn't make sense to me to use a larger aircraft on all those mid-day flights which are usually only half full anyways.

They could probably rotate them onto the BOS-DCA service during the peak periods. It seems rather odd to me that US has kept mainline-sized a/c on that route while DL has been using DL Connection carriers on that route for a number of years. Is it because US has so many connection opportunities at DCA?


User currently offlineSparky35805 From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 283 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 years 11 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4118 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Northwest 757s are their own.The 6 aircraft Republic fleet was disposed of about a year after the merger.They were RR powered.some went to America West.
Sparky


User currently offlineLambert747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (5 years 11 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4103 times:



Quoting Srbmod (Reply 21):
You could easily take out a few rows from an MD-90 to give the a/c the same pitch as the MD-88s on the route and have it hold slightly more than the MD-88s currently plying LGA-BOS and LGA-DCA. With the addition of the first class cabin to the Shuttle MD-88s, that will cut the capacity of those a/c further.

You are correct however using smaller aircraft on the same schedule will put the MD-88 or what not to much better use elsewhere in the DL/NW system.

Quoting Jkudall (Reply 20):
In my opinion, replacing the md-88s with EMB-170s or 175s on the shuttle flights wouldn't be a bad idea. You can still use larger aircraft for peak times in the morning and evening but it doesn't make sense to me to use a larger aircraft on all those mid-day flights which are usually only half full anyways

 checkmark 

There is no need to offer the mainline equipment on BOS-LGA-DCA, they are not being utilized to their full potential. At current more and more people in downtown NYC are using the Acela service to BOS and WAS. The service is much more reliable and is not operated according to the whim of ATC or the ever problematic traffic and weather combinations at LGA. From what I understand rideshipe on the DL Shuttle has been effected with the entrance of B6 into the BOS-JFK-IAD market. The offset of travellers lost between Acela and B6 would be put to much better use with downsized equipment on the would be DL Shuttle flights.


User currently offlinePyrex From Portugal, joined Aug 2005, 4022 posts, RR: 28
Reply 24, posted (5 years 11 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4096 times:

I honestly hope they don't end Delta Shuttle, beats Delta proper hands down. Plenty of leg-room, snacks and drinks for a 40-minute flight between BOS-LGA and you get your own (very nice) terminal when you arrive there, too. I would take it any day of the week over AA.


Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
25 Alitalia744 : The Shuttle-esq (ie hourly departures) makes more sense on smaller a/c given ridership changes since Acela (as Lambert mentioned)...yields are still g
26 Post contains links Alitalia744 : By the way - official now... http://news.delta.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=11163
27 Lambert747 : I am all for that, however I have to admit that I am one of those who takes Acela more often than not for the convenience from downtown to the center
28 Alitalia744 : The cigs in NY/NJ suck today, sitting at my office window I can't see Jersey and we're practically on the Hudson river...
29 United_Fan : I wonder how the 727 was on the 'Budget'
30 PanAm330 : They already are being utilized domestically, on CVG/ATL-SNA and on CVG-ATL.
31 Alitalia744 : Different OGLs and budgets back then...
32 Gigneil : They operated significantly less flights during the 727 era. When they got the 738, they were able to add one earlier departure and one later arrival
33 FlyASAGuy2005 : Wow, didn't know that. " target=_blank>http://news.delta.com/article_displa...11163 Darn, you beat me to it (by 9 hours, yes). I was just reading an
34 Post contains links RJpieces : Sad and nostalgic article in the NY Times today. This reminds me of the one from a few years ago when Delta announced that the Shuttle would no longer
35 Soxfan : The press release says by next summer they'll offer WiFi on board. I personally think $9.95 for a 30-40 minute flight is kind of steep, but for all th
36 ScottB : Well, you'll still have the leather seats, but the extra legroom will only be in the exit rows.
37 NWAESC : Let's hope it's the former. The CRJ-900 is anything but passenger friendly, especially when compared directly with the E75...
38 FlyASAGuy2005 : That would really suck IMO. If they do decide to downgrade the shuttle equipment across the board in the future (not just during the weekends), I sure
39 DeltaL1011man : Some A320s but I want to say after the 10(?) NW just parked that will be the end of A319s going. How much do you want to put on it? I'll say you will
40 FlyASAGuy2005 : I sure hope so. "Me thinks" that they wanted to start with 10 but I can see that little critter fleet growing to about 25-30.
41 NWA757boy : No 319s were parked, there are between 7 and 10 319s being reconfigured to 54 seats for NBA/NHL charters during the winter season that will be conver
42 DeltaL1011man : Oh I thought I saw on here they are/were selling 10 of them.
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