FlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 6539 posts, RR: 11 Posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5411 times:
I first heard of this in another post. It was sort of a comment and was not the focus of the discussion and I asked the person where and when they had heard of this. Either they didn't respond or I lost track of the thread and didn't get to see the answer (this was within the last 2 months).
So, has anyone heard that Delta has plans on getting rid of the Delta "Shuttle". Not really going away from the schedule but taking off the Shuttle cheat line, and converting the MDs back to the regular mainline cabin. Thus, we still have all the advantages such as the "shuttle" service" but with regular mainline Mad Dogs with first class.
Any thoughts?
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Mayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 9273 posts, RR: 13 Reply 1, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5354 times:
Might give some more flexibility to the mainline fleet. I wonder if the DC-9's might work on the Shuttle routes?
On a side note, I wonder how much money Delta Elite makes for the company or if it's about time to spin it off?
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
Alitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4670 posts, RR: 45 Reply 2, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5295 times:
Yeah there was a response in a thread in the not so distant past...
Net - current thinking is to not operate a dedicated fleet of shuttle a/c. Rotate reg MD88s thru the system with two-class svc (debate is offer FC as an upcharge, or reserved for first-come/first-serve Medallions...)
Srbmod From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 16896 posts, RR: 51 Reply 3, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5295 times:
I actually would not be surprised if Delta did as such; after all, fellow "shuttle" competitor US Airways has already done as such.
I actually would not be surprised if in the post-merger integration (Of course assuming they get DOJ approval.) if the Mad Dogs are slowly removed from the Shuttle routes and replaced with another a/c type (I would venture either the MD-90s or perhaps the return of the 738s or even crazier, A319/320s.). I could also see them adding the IFE system they use on their Transcontinental a/c. As for the cabin, I think they could do a modified variant of the mainline cabin. Offer slightly more legroom as well as a first class cabin. While US does use a/c directly from the US fleet, I think having a subfleet dedicated to the shuttle routes is not that bad of a thing. If you keep the layout close enough to the mainline layout, if you happen to sub some of the Shuttle fleet into the mainline on the weekends, you lessen the possibility of upsetting passengers.
As for doing away with the "shuttle" branding, even if they did, folks would still refer to those services as "the shuttle".
Gigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16215 posts, RR: 88 Reply 4, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5070 times:
Quoting Mayor (Reply 1): I wonder if the DC-9's might work on the Shuttle routes?
The DC-9 would destroy DL's noise budget. They've already had to eliminate the earliest and latest pair of flights due to switching to the MD-88.
FlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 6539 posts, RR: 11 Reply 5, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4975 times:
The branding isn't a bi issue. I think the whole point would be to get away from operating a sub-fleet. It would actually be a bonus to add F seats. I say sell it as F instead of operating the entire cabin as coach and offering the big seats to PMs, FOs, and SMs. Whatever little profit they can make, go ahead. Most of the dedicated folks will stick to their preferred carrier anyway (D E L T A or US Airways).
I would hope though, that they keep the level of service they offer.
Won't the 738s be too much a/c?
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JetJeanes From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1415 posts, RR: 1 Reply 6, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4946 times:
kinda odd and i dont know why in a stock forum on Nw they advised that nw was getting rid of their 757,s and either the 319,or 320 . The 757,s were their oldest ones,but there were no word on the dc-9,s??? I mean those 757,s came online what from republic in what 86???
Gigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16215 posts, RR: 88 Reply 7, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4886 times:
Quoting JetJeanes (Reply 6): kinda odd and i dont know why in a stock forum on Nw they advised that nw was getting rid of their 757,s and either the 319,or 320 .
There is NO chance of that. Maybe they could downsize the 757 fleet, but with all those MD-80s and DC-9s that have to go there is just NO WAY they will ground either the A319s or A320s.
FlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 6539 posts, RR: 11 Reply 8, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4832 times:
I could actually see an across the board fleet reduction, including the 19s and 20s.
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OA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 4994 posts, RR: 25 Reply 9, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4794 times:
Quoting Gigneil (Reply 7): There is NO chance of that. Maybe they could downsize the 757 fleet, but with all those MD-80s and DC-9s that have to go there is just NO WAY they will ground either the A319s or A320s.
Exactly! In fact, I would put money on the 737-700's leaving the fleet before they get rid of any of the A320s/A319s or all of NW's 757s.
Pilotboi From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 2366 posts, RR: 10 Reply 10, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4783 times:
Sxf24 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1228 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4756 times:
Quoting OA412 (Reply 9): Exactly! In fact, I would put money on the 737-700's leaving the fleet before they get rid of any of the A320s/A319s or all of NW's 757s.
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21286 posts, RR: 19 Reply 12, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4756 times:
Quoting OA412 (Reply 9): Exactly! In fact, I would put money on the 737-700's leaving the fleet before they get rid of any of the A320s/A319s or all of NW's 757s.
Why? If DL can make money keeping the M90s around at that subfleet's current size, certainly they can make money with 73Gs.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
OA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 4994 posts, RR: 25 Reply 13, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4743 times:
Quoting Sxf24 (Reply 11):
Um, they literally joined almost yesterday.
I'm aware of that but given the very large fleet of A319s that will soon be part of the DL fleet, does it really make sense to operate a fleet of 10 aircraft when the A319 can already do pretty much everything the 73G can?
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21286 posts, RR: 19 Reply 14, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4738 times:
Quoting OA412 (Reply 13): does it really make sense to operate a fleet of 10 aircraft when the A319 can already do pretty much everything the 73G can?
For a 738 operator, why not?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
Lexy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2362 posts, RR: 9 Reply 15, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4669 times:
Quoting Sxf24 (Reply 11): Um, they literally joined almost yesterday.
Under no circumstance are the 737-700's going to leave the DL fleet. Not no way, not no how are they giving them up. That would be crazy to think that to begin with. If anything, they will ditch some of the older Airbii they will acquire from NW (granted the DOJ signs off on the merger of course). NW has already started parking some of the older Airbus in the desert because it's cheaper to park them than to have them flying and not making money for them in the long run due to mx. The 737's are staying and that's the end of that.
Currently, they use them for C. American flights, correct? If anything, you may see them start to utilize some domestically but I wouldn't put my money on it just yet.
Alitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4670 posts, RR: 45 Reply 16, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4606 times:
-The 73Gs will not leave the fleet - in fact you may see a top-up order
-Some of the oldest NW 757s (5500 I believe?) and some older 320s may be retired given cost of HMVs
727forever From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 785 posts, RR: 5 Reply 17, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4229 times:
Quoting Srbmod (Reply 3): if the Mad Dogs are slowly removed from the Shuttle routes and replaced with another a/c type (I would venture either the MD-90s or perhaps the return of the 738s or even crazier, A319/320s.).
All of which with the exception of the A319 are too large for the present day demand of the Shuttle for both airlines. There is also the wear and tear issue on the CFM-56 of up down flights all day. DL had this issue with the 733 and 738 applications on the shuttle as well as Aloha when they operated the 734.
Quoting Srbmod (Reply 3): I think having a subfleet dedicated to the shuttle routes is not that bad of a thing. If you keep the layout close enough to the mainline layout, if you happen to sub some of the Shuttle fleet into the mainline on the weekends, you lessen the possibility of upsetting passengers.
Traditionally they have loaded them into the system as a different version of the MD-8x series ahead of time and limited the number of seats sold. They are also used for charters quite a bit.
Quoting OA412 (Reply 13): I'm aware of that but given the very large fleet of A319s that will soon be part of the DL fleet, does it really make sense to operate a fleet of 10 aircraft when the A319 can already do pretty much everything the 73G can?
Nearly, but not quite. The 73G is being used quite a bit for long and thin missions into tight places which it is better at than the 319.
ScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6373 posts, RR: 34 Reply 18, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3554 times:
Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 5): It would actually be a bonus to add F seats. I say sell it as F instead of operating the entire cabin as coach and offering the big seats to PMs, FOs, and SMs.
I'd wager that at peak hours, probably half the plane is PM or GM. Even though first class isn't available, the Shuttle fleet does offer better legroom than the standard MD-88.
However, it does appear that the dedicated Shuttle fleet is indeed going away:
MasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 4750 posts, RR: 7 Reply 19, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3441 times:
Jkudall From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 615 posts, RR: 2 Reply 20, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3393 times:
In my opinion, replacing the md-88s with EMB-170s or 175s on the shuttle flights wouldn't be a bad idea. You can still use larger aircraft for peak times in the morning and evening but it doesn't make sense to me to use a larger aircraft on all those mid-day flights which are usually only half full anyways.
Srbmod From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 16896 posts, RR: 51 Reply 21, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3130 times:
Quoting 727forever (Reply 17): All of which with the exception of the A319 are too large for the present day demand of the Shuttle for both airlines. There is also the wear and tear issue on the CFM-56 of up down flights all day. DL had this issue with the 733 and 738 applications on the shuttle as well as Aloha when they operated the 734.
You could easily take out a few rows from an MD-90 to give the a/c the same pitch as the MD-88s on the route and have it hold slightly more than the MD-88s currently plying LGA-BOS and LGA-DCA. With the addition of the first class cabin to the Shuttle MD-88s, that will cut the capacity of those a/c further.
Quoting Jkudall (Reply 20): In my opinion, replacing the md-88s with EMB-170s or 175s on the shuttle flights wouldn't be a bad idea. You can still use larger aircraft for peak times in the morning and evening but it doesn't make sense to me to use a larger aircraft on all those mid-day flights which are usually only half full anyways.
They could probably rotate them onto the BOS-DCA service during the peak periods. It seems rather odd to me that US has kept mainline-sized a/c on that route while DL has been using DL Connection carriers on that route for a number of years. Is it because US has so many connection opportunities at DCA?
Sparky35805 From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 245 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3128 times:
Northwest 757s are their own.The 6 aircraft Republic fleet was disposed of about a year after the merger.They were RR powered.some went to America West.
Sparky
Lambert747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 23, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3113 times:
Quoting Srbmod (Reply 21): You could easily take out a few rows from an MD-90 to give the a/c the same pitch as the MD-88s on the route and have it hold slightly more than the MD-88s currently plying LGA-BOS and LGA-DCA. With the addition of the first class cabin to the Shuttle MD-88s, that will cut the capacity of those a/c further.
You are correct however using smaller aircraft on the same schedule will put the MD-88 or what not to much better use elsewhere in the DL/NW system.
Quoting Jkudall (Reply 20): In my opinion, replacing the md-88s with EMB-170s or 175s on the shuttle flights wouldn't be a bad idea. You can still use larger aircraft for peak times in the morning and evening but it doesn't make sense to me to use a larger aircraft on all those mid-day flights which are usually only half full anyways
There is no need to offer the mainline equipment on BOS-LGA-DCA, they are not being utilized to their full potential. At current more and more people in downtown NYC are using the Acela service to BOS and WAS. The service is much more reliable and is not operated according to the whim of ATC or the ever problematic traffic and weather combinations at LGA. From what I understand rideshipe on the DL Shuttle has been effected with the entrance of B6 into the BOS-JFK-IAD market. The offset of travellers lost between Acela and B6 would be put to much better use with downsized equipment on the would be DL Shuttle flights.
Pyrex From Portugal, joined Aug 2005, 3542 posts, RR: 28 Reply 24, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3106 times:
I honestly hope they don't end Delta Shuttle, beats Delta proper hands down. Plenty of leg-room, snacks and drinks for a 40-minute flight between BOS-LGA and you get your own (very nice) terminal when you arrive there, too. I would take it any day of the week over AA.
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25 Alitalia744: The Shuttle-esq (ie hourly departures) makes more sense on smaller a/c given ridership changes since Acela (as Lambert mentioned)...yields are still g
26 Alitalia744: By the way - official now... http://news.delta.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=11163
27 Lambert747: I am all for that, however I have to admit that I am one of those who takes Acela more often than not for the convenience from downtown to the center
28 Alitalia744: The cigs in NY/NJ suck today, sitting at my office window I can't see Jersey and we're practically on the Hudson river...
29 United_Fan: I wonder how the 727 was on the 'Budget'
30 PanAm330: They already are being utilized domestically, on CVG/ATL-SNA and on CVG-ATL.
31 Alitalia744: Different OGLs and budgets back then...
32 Gigneil: They operated significantly less flights during the 727 era. When they got the 738, they were able to add one earlier departure and one later arrival
33 FlyASAGuy2005: Wow, didn't know that. " target=_blank>http://news.delta.com/article_displa...11163 Darn, you beat me to it (by 9 hours, yes). I was just reading an
34 RJpieces: Sad and nostalgic article in the NY Times today. This reminds me of the one from a few years ago when Delta announced that the Shuttle would no longer
35 Soxfan: The press release says by next summer they'll offer WiFi on board. I personally think $9.95 for a 30-40 minute flight is kind of steep, but for all th
36 ScottB: Well, you'll still have the leather seats, but the extra legroom will only be in the exit rows.
37 NWAESC: Let's hope it's the former. The CRJ-900 is anything but passenger friendly, especially when compared directly with the E75...
38 FlyASAGuy2005: That would really suck IMO. If they do decide to downgrade the shuttle equipment across the board in the future (not just during the weekends), I sure
39 DeltaL1011man: Some A320s but I want to say after the 10(?) NW just parked that will be the end of A319s going. How much do you want to put on it? I'll say you will
40 FlyASAGuy2005: I sure hope so. "Me thinks" that they wanted to start with 10 but I can see that little critter fleet growing to about 25-30.
41 NWA757boy: No 319s were parked, there are between 7 and 10 319s being reconfigured to 54 seats for NBA/NHL charters during the winter season that will be conver
42 DeltaL1011man: Oh I thought I saw on here they are/were selling 10 of them.
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