KrisYYZ From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 1614 posts, RR: 0 Posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 11243 times:
After 14 years of service, Malev Hungarian Airlines is shutting down its long-haul operations. The last flight to Toronto was earlier this week and the last flight to JFK will be in late October, after which Malev’s remaining B767 will be taken out of operation. Due to a lack of long-haul aircraft in its fleet, Malev will not be flying on a scheduled basis to BKK this winter nor will it operate any more long-haul charter flights.
In the early 90s Malev decided to venture into the trans-Atlantic market by ordering 2 GE powered B767-200ER aircraft to serve YYZ and JFK in addition to numerous charter destinations in Asia, Africa and the Caribbean.
Malev’s Long Haul Fleet
B767-375 ER– HA-LHC (1992), Interim aircraft until the new B762s are delivered
On June 1st 1994, MA flew its fist charter flight to Toronto. Malev later made BUD-YYZ a scheduled flight that operated 2-3 times a week during the winter and 5 times a week during the summer months. MA flew out of the old Terminal 1 at YYZ and later switched to Terminal 3.
MA fist flew to JFK on May 2, 1994. MA and DL codeshared flights for the first few years of operations. Upon MA joining Oneworld, MA and AA signed an extensive codesharing agreement that included flight to 25 US destinations from JFK. Apparently some controllers at JFK tower would often refer to MA’s B767s as “Bluenose”.
From 1993 to1994, MA’s B767s flew BUD-FCO-EWR for almost a year on behalf of AZ.
MA’s first charter flight to BKK landed in December 1993. BKK for the most part operated as a charter flight, however MA did later introduce BKK as a scheduled flight during the winter season. In 2007, a codesharing agreement was signed with QF so MA passengers could connect to SYD via BKK.
Malev also operated their B767s to numerous other destinations such as PEK, NRT, LPA. VRA and others.
Malev’s long haul operations ended because of high oil prices and the inefficiencies of operating only 2 wide body aircraft in its fleet. It costs over $50,000 USD to fuel up a B767 for a flight to JFK which was to great of an expenditure of a small airline such as MA. About 80% of passengers on MA’s TATLS were transit passengers who connected through BUD to destinations In the Eastern and Southern Europe. Transit passengers bring in less revenue which was another contributing factor in MA cancelling its TATLS. The future is unclear; MA has dramatically reduced its fleet. The B767s are being withdrawn along with MA’s 4 CRJs, 5 F-70s; also MA’s 5 B738s are being leased out during the winter. The only addition to the fleet will be the 4 Q400s that MA is leasing until the brand new 4 Q400s arrive from Bombardier in 2010. I highly doubt that MA will resume long-haul ops anytime soon. The airline has to prove it stability and profitability before the any sort of expansion is looked at. Also a new long-haul fleet would have to be acquired at great cost, the CEO of MA has said in the past that operating a fleet of 4-5 widebodies would be the most feasible for MA.
Foxecho From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 752 posts, RR: 16
Reply 2, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 11189 times:
I was lucky, I got to fly MA on -LHA out of JFK, in Mid-2001 the Pilot saw my JFK badge and invited me up to the cockpit for takeoff, got to sit up there for a few hours with them and hear about how they used to fly the TU154!
Awesome crew, I wish everyone at MA well!
PS the crew used to regularly refer to -LHD as "Lima Hotel Danger" with its reliability issues.
American 767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4624 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 11014 times:
I remember seeing HA-LHA many times at JFK, and it would also share Terminal 8 with American since MA joined One World. Last time I saw a Malev 767 was at JFK back in May of this year when I was flying American to Brussels, can't remember if it was LHA or LHB but I do remember it was a 200. I sure will miss those MA762's at JFK. I also saw LHA at BUD once when I went there in 2004. Maybe AA should consider adding a new flight JFK-BUD.
Does that mean Malev is focusing on an all NG737 fleet, with maybe a few F70?
CastropRauxel From Germany, joined Sep 2008, 467 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 10444 times:
Very sad news. I guess they will focus now on short and medium haul (they've recently increased capacity to TLV. 4 more flights a week, if I'm not mistaken). mind you, this is coming not too long after entering One World. I guess AA will benefit from it though - MA will probably sell tickets to U.S destinations from other AA european gateways, with MA feeding their flights in europe.
Quoting Lp0815 (Reply 6): Are OK and LO still operating long-haul flights?
Yes they do. so far, business as usual with LO, though they are now lobbying more STAR members to increase activity into WAW, I guess in order to make it a new eastern european gateway for STAR. maybe that's a sign of downsizing on their side to come.
OK is actually planning new BKK route, so I read this week. I wonder if that's their answer to MA suspending theirs.
Quoting KrisYYZ (Reply 7): OK is planning on suspending flight to YYZ soon
For sure? I thought this route is doing very well.
Mbm3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 876 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 8890 times:
I think it shows great business sense to end the long haul flights and concentrating on their short to medium length flights. For those of you who do not know much about MA, they seem to code share with just about every major carrier, connecting the large airports to BUD. On my way to my current project in BUD I was surprised with MA operating a flight under an AF codeshare sold by CO, but the experience was a good one (and has the other flights I have taken). Unfortunately, given the ticket prices that I have seen I think MA will have a tough time unless they keep those flights full (which seems to be happening at the moment).
Let Me Tell You, Landing A 772ER Is Harder Than It Looks!
Flylot From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 187 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 8837 times:
Quoting CastropRauxel (Reply 10): Yes they do. so far, business as usual with LO, though they are now lobbying more STAR members to increase activity into WAW, I guess in order to make it a new eastern european gateway for STAR. maybe that's a sign of downsizing on their side to come.
I also red somewhere that they were looking to purchase their 787 options. But then I also red somewhere else that they were canceling their options. Maybe they want to do the smart thing and purchase these time slots in order to sell them to other airlines for a profit.
One thing I know for sure is that the only transatlantic route they make a profit on is JFK-Rzezsow. And you may say that their planes are usually 105% full, but here is yet another example of high load factors that does not equate to profits.
See you Malev!
by the way whats Malev's short haul situation now Air Union in the crapper?
ClassicLover From Ireland, joined Mar 2004, 4951 posts, RR: 22
Reply 15, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 8192 times:
Quoting Arcano (Reply 14): Would this affect the good of including Malev for the rest of OW partners?
Not at all... Malev was selected for oneworld because they have the best service of any of the Eastern European carriers, along with the location of BUD. That said, the main reason was Malev's Eastern European network, which remains completely intact. The very small seasonal long haul network was not why they were added to oneworld.
I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
MillwallSean From Singapore, joined Apr 2008, 1387 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 8105 times:
Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 15): Not at all... Malev was selected for oneworld because they have the best service of any of the Eastern European carriers, along with the location of BUD. That said, the main reason was Malev's Eastern European network, which remains completely intact. The very small seasonal long haul network was not why they were added to oneworld.
Or the selection might have happened because all the other eastern European carriers from within the EU were already in other alliances at that time...
Lets look at the facts. AF had both CSA and Malev come under their umbrella after the purchase of KLM.
AF choose CSA as their main partner in eastern Europe. They could have gone with Malev but thought that CSA made more sense to them and Skyteam.
There is a reason for that.
Malevs network in eastern Europe being very strong is a point i strongly disagree with. Austrian are strong in eastern Europe, LH too, but Malev?
Malev serves a whopping three destinations in the former Soviet union, Moscow, Kiev and Odessa. SK are alot stronger than that to this region.
The only market outside Hungary where Malev are important is Romania and with the Hungarian minority there, who are punching well above their population numbers business-wise, it is a market that is natural for them.
L410Turbolet From Czech Republic, joined exactly 12 years ago today! , 5922 posts, RR: 18
Reply 17, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 8024 times:
Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 16): Or the selection might have happened because all the other eastern European carriers from within the EU were already in other alliances at that time...
Czech Airlines joined SkyTeam in October, 2000
LOT joined Star Alliance in October 2003
Malev joined Oneworld in April 2007 (prior to that Czech Airlines sponsored Malev's intent to join SkyTeam as an assciated member]
Shamrock104 From Ireland, joined Sep 2000, 529 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7934 times:
Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 15): That said, the main reason was Malev's Eastern European network, which remains completely intact.
I'm not sure about this, how can their network remain completely intact if they are removing so many aircraft and adding so few, is this just down to capacity reductions? The whole Malev strategy since being taken into russian ownership seems extremely dubious IMHO.
CastropRauxel From Germany, joined Sep 2008, 467 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 7801 times:
Quoting Flylot (Reply 13): One thing I know for sure is that the only transatlantic route they make a profit on is JFK-Rzezsow
Not sure. WAW-ORD is doing very very well.
Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 15): Not at all... Malev was selected for oneworld because they have the best service of any of the Eastern European carriers, along with the location of BUD. That said, the main reason was Malev's Eastern European network, which remains completely intact.
and a lot of good did that do to them... the only Oneworld members actually flying to BUD are BA and AY (both don't need MA connections as they have more of their own), and RJ. not sure what good does MA bring into this alliance anymore.
Thestooges From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 7658 times:
Its been very interesting to see what has happened with trans-atlantic service to Eastern European cities over the past few years.
A few years back I was extremely perplexed by the fact that Berlin had no trans-atlantic service but other Eastern European cities such as Prague, Warsaw and Budapest did. We now have situation a few years later where Berlin has two daily transatlantic flights on both Delta and Continental to New York (which appear to be doing well enough) whereas Budapest will now only have Delta. And Warsaw for example still has not seen any service from a North American carrier unlike Berlin, Budapest and Prague.
By the way, when did DL start BUD service in relation to TXL . . . was it before, at the same time or after?
I'm intrigued that trans-atlantic flights out of Budapest are decreasing and not increasing. As far as I'm concerned the economies of Eastern European countries have been steadily improving of late and this reduction in service therefor comes as quite a shock to me.
But I guess it all comes down to the fact that even though Budapest has definitely seen a massive increase in tourism recently, its unfortunately not the kind of tourism that would fill a plane across the Atlantic. No North American is going to take a week long trip to visit just Budapest, whereas this kind of trip is quite common to places like London, Paris, Amsterdam etc. Any North Amsrican who visits the city will have flown into a major European gateway (LHR, CDG, AMS, FRA) and then subsequently reach Budapest by land or by cheap intra-european flight.
R2rho From Spain, joined Feb 2007, 3545 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 7637 times:
This is not necessarily bad news. These days you can't run profitable intercontinental service from every capital city on the continent anymore, and MA has been very intelligent to realize it rather than stubbornly try to hold onto that strategy. They are shrinking down and optimizing their fleet - a difficult decision that will hopefully pay off in the future. Their fleet strategy - getting rid of the old F-70s and the inefficient CRJ, and going to 738s and Q400s - is the right way to go.
What they now need to do is establish themselves as a strong regional player in Eastern Europe. Unfortunately, MA is currently too small for that. OW needs to help boost them all they can, because MA is the only thing they've got in the region.
Uzzzer From Ukraine, joined Dec 2006, 144 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 7595 times:
I believe part of the reason for quitting the transatlantic service is that the airline itself doesn't make these decisions anymore. It's part of the bigger game. This is not Malev, Lot ot CSA flying to NYC from BUD. This is OW, *A or SkyTeam. Or an independent player, like VV.
Each one has pros and cons. You globalise, get new opportunities, but also you assume risks. Having a bankrupt owner and much stronger alliance partners, Malev had to focus on what it is best at - serving local market.
Companies like VV are trying to keep the fight on their own, but multiply the risks too. There isnt an friendly shoulder to lean on, when your own feeds dry up. Unless you're an EK
KrisYYZ From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 1614 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 7491 times:
Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 16): Malev serves a whopping three destinations in the former Soviet union, Moscow, Kiev and Odessa. SK are a lot stronger than that to this region.
That's about to change. MA's "re-MAKE" program includes a massive expansion into the former USSR countries. I believe MA is already planning service to TSE to start later in 2009.
Quoting Thestooges (Reply 20): I'm intrigued that transatlantic flights out of Budapest are decreasing and not increasing. As far as I'm concerned the economies of Eastern European countries have been steadily improving of late and this reduction in service therefor comes as quite a shock to me.
Well let's not forget that Hungary is a small country. Hungary has a population of approx. 10 million, Poland about 40 million. But you are right, there has been little to no growth in eastern Europe.
I am certain that OK will be the next e. European airline to cease long-haul ops. They face the same problem as MA, either invest massive amounts of money into rebuilding the long-haul fleet and network, or suspend it completely.
MA's BUD-JKF/YYZ flights were full during the summer but performed very poorly during the winter. MA's CEO said that if the cost of oil would have stayed below the $110 level for an extended period, MA would have continued it's long-haul ops.
In one way I am happy the MA is securing profitability and thereby survival in this uncertain market. However Ambrovich has done too much too fast. Just the this week, MA announced that it will be laying off its B767, F-70 and CRJ pilots, that about 300 pilots. And how will MA maintain service to its European network with 10 less aircraft is a mystery to me.
: As a temporary resident of BUD, I am simply amazed at how crowded the flights are to/from the city. I have taken MA, AF and LX flights and each of th
: I have the pleasure of trying Malev next month when I visit what I hope to be wonderful Budapest, I really cant wait. Now that MA has joined Oneworld
: Don't agree with you here. I've taken HEL-BUD-ATH and HEL-BUD-LJU already several times this year as AY don't have connections to those. Also MA flie
: I stand corrected But somehow, I'm still not sure that the connection to Kosovo for AY passnegers is the benefit Oneworld need from having MA in the
: Don't AY have a codeshare with Ukraine International for the Kiev flights from Helsinki?
: I, for one, will miss Malev. Good airline providing good service at reasonable rates to BUD. Aside from that, very fond memories of my first trip over
: Sure, to Kiev, but there's Odessa as well... You're right, but the fact is that I would have taken probably LH to ATH and LJU without MA joining onew
: MA aside for a moment, I gotta say I'm surprised to hear that AY doesn't fly to ATH. I thought it was a given, to be honest. I wouldn't expect them t
: I too have been curious why AA hasn't started ORD-BUD? Especially since there were many rumors of MA starting service to Rockford! Does anyone know i
: I miss that connection myself Greece has been the number one summer holiday destinations for Finns for a long time, but ATH has seen AY's scheduled s
: Other than service to TSE in 2009, what else is planned as part of the re-MAKE programme? Is it just expansion into former USSR countries and when is