If that does indeed come to pass, would bode ill for their emerge-from-bankruptcy strategy from last time. Because if this happens, Chapter 7 (of the U.S. bankruptcy code, aka total dissolution) might be a better move.
Jetfuel From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 2215 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 21457 times:
Quoting DingDong (Reply 2): Because if this happens, Chapter 7 (of the U.S. bankruptcy code, aka total dissolution) might be a better move.
I am sorry for everybody at UA but the company is too top heavy with fat cats and needs to be a lean mean fighting machine to survive. I dont see any changes that make me feel they are going to make it. Key airline employees are on the front line, not sitting in leather bound luxury office chairs discussing their retirement benefits drinking coffee and sharing their life story with one another
Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
MMEPHX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 21080 times:
Quoting Nycfly75 (Reply 8): People are going to lose money on their AZ bets, the impossible happened....
or was it that the usual happened? AZ is seemingly absolutely impregnable to market forces, no matter how ludicrous the situation there always seems to be someone who wants to lose all their money in AZ. I've never figured that out.....still, it isn't a done deal yet (LH) so the bet might still be valid?
my 2 cents...
USA - Either US or UA...Sun Country as a non legacy or maybe even Mesa.
Europe - FlyGlobespan seem troubled but I wouldn't rule out a bigger name such as SK or BD if the economy continues to tank.
Bobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6464 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 21012 times:
Quoting Jetfuel (Reply 4): I am sorry for everybody at UA but the company is too top heavy with fat cats and needs to be a lean mean fighting machine to survive. I dont see any changes that make me feel they are going to make it. Key airline employees are on the front line, not sitting in leather bound luxury office chairs discussing their retirement benefits drinking coffee and sharing their life story with one another
I will bet you do not have any numbers that show that UA is top heavy in managers or "fat cats" as you call them. I will also bet that the managers they do have, are not sitting in "leather bound luxury office chairs". The problems at UA go back to the failed employee ESOP led by the pilots which put UA in a hole it never got out of.
Apodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4257 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 20832 times:
I don't think it will be United or US because both airlines have a very good Cash position in the short term.
The US carrier's I think are most troubled are Mesa and ExpressJet. However, with XJ getting away from branded flying, I think they will be safe. Mesa is in big trouble though. The stock price yesterday was at 33 cents a share (It's lost 95 percent of its value in less than two years), the Delta injunction is still pending (The lawsuit hasn't been heard by a judge yet), the GO operation is bleeding money left and right, and there is no new work really to bid on (And I don't think they are in a position to get any new flying where they are), coupled with them facing delisting from the NASDAQ, and its not a pretty picture. The Shareholders cant be happy with how much their stock price has dwindled and sooner or later they are going to have to make Johnny O accountable. And if the Judge rules in favor of Delta that Mesa did violate the contract, there will be a bankrupcy filing from Mesa, which I think can only help USAirways and United, because it would allow US to rightsize the 50 seat flying and have one less contract on the books, and United would be able to bring in a much more reliably Regional Partner to handle the flying. (Think more OO flying, or a return of ZW)
Jetfuel, most (actually virtually all) of the analyst believe that all off the legacies are going to be fine through this economic downturn. Its the regionals and semi-major carries that they are worried about, the ones that don't have billions in the bank.
Actually I was reading an article on the capacity cuts that are occurring thought the US industry and adding it all together the US industry will be removing the equivalent of a major carrier from the skies just via capacity cuts. The US airline industry is starting to right itself and most analysts predict that 2009 should be overall basically break even/slight loss with general profitability returning in 2010.
WA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2221 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 20505 times:
Sun Country is pretty much a given - they just cut the pay of their employees in half, which is not a good sign!
Sadly, I also think Frontier is very vulnerable. When people are worried about their jobs, the first thing they decide to do without is a ski trip to Colorado, or taking the kids to Mexico for spring break. Frontier is a very leisure oriented airline that does not have UA's corporate contracts, or a network as large as Southwest's, so they will be most affected by discretionary travellers staying home. I really hope Frontier makes it, because I've had some wonderful flights on them and I love their ads, but I'm worried about their future.
Mspdl From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 56 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 19628 times:
Sorry guys, but Sun Country isnt going anywhere. Petters has very little to do with the daily operations of SY. Besides with SY and NWA both being the home town airlines, one will have to stick around.
2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 19376 times:
Quoting Captaink (Reply 19): Air Jamaica (JM) in the Caribbean is fighting a serious fight.
It's actually the Jamaican Government who is fighting to keep that airline alive. JM gives me the impression of a Zombie airline.
I see in bad shape: SA)">UA, AZ, G3, AR; maybe SA)">CO, SA)">AA, SA, PY, SK too.
WA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2221 posts, RR: 8
Reply 23, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 19223 times:
Quoting Mspdl (Reply 20): Sorry guys, but Sun Country isnt going anywhere. Petters has very little to do with the daily operations of SY.
Sun Country was losing money even before Petters' legal woes; their losses were being funded by Petters' other enterprises.
Now that Petters' other enterprises are under investigation, they will not be able to keep SY going. As mentioned earlier, the ongoing economic slowdown will also be very hard on SY, because they are so leisure focused, and families worried about their income will give up a trip to see Grandma in Fort Myers before they give up feeding the kids.
Quoting Mspdl (Reply 20): Besides with SY and NWA both being the home town airlines, one will have to stick around.
Many cities no longer have "home town airlines", and are doing just fine. Los Angeles hasn't had a "hometown airline" since CO moved to Houston, Flying Tigers merged with FedEx, and Western merged with DL, and LAX is hardly a ghost town. Even if the NW / DL merger goes through, and SY shuts down, there will still be lots of air service at MSP.
Olympic472 From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 456 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 18980 times:
How about a variation of the bust list here. This is a watch list for airlines that may be bought (keep the brand), merged (keep or new name), bk protection (still flying), or stop flying totally.
North America = Sun Country
Central and South America =
Europe and Russia = FlyGlobespan; SAS; Alitalia (not official)
Africa and Mid-East =
Asia (include China & India) = China Eastern; Kingfisher
Australia & Pacific =
My apologies to employees of these airlines for speculating on their companies fate.
Civil Aviation has a "Need for Speed"!
: Chris read the thread. The parent company is, not SY. Sadly I do think SY may be the next to go.