Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Who Wins The LHR-JFK/EWR Sector?  
User currently offlineB773A346 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 77 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 7035 times:

As we know we have several airlines flying the London Heahrow/Gatwick- JFK/EWR

British Airways B777/B747/B767
Kuwait Airways B777/A340
Virgin Atlantic Airways A346/B744
American Airlines B777
Continental Airlines B777/B762
Delta Air Lines B763

From the abve list which airline is performing the best in terms of market share on this route.
Which airline would u suggest a passenger in terms of service and quality and connections.

I think the market share would go to British Airways
The service and quality on First/Business Class - British Airways, Premium Economy and Economy - Virgin Atlantic Airways
Delta Air Lines and Continental Airlines for only if booked on onward connections in USA.

I would like to know what would you think ?

37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 7001 times:

BA without a doubt for share

VS for service quality

Connections: Where are you going/coming from


User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9266 posts, RR: 14
Reply 2, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 6990 times:

I'll Say DL for the service quality and BA for Market share.


yep.
User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3077 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6938 times:



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 2):
I'll Say DL for the service quality and BA for Market share.

Um, no. Delta has a good product, better than many American carriers, but they certainly don't beat BA in service quality. BA's premium classes are exponentially better, and their Y product is marginally better.

BA also wins on market share, though AA is no slouch either.


User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4741 posts, RR: 45
Reply 4, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6924 times:



Quoting RwSEA (Reply 3):
Um, no. Delta has a good product, better than many American carriers, but they certainly don't beat BA in service quality. BA's premium classes are exponentially better, and their Y product is marginally better.

Would you say the same when DL rolls out their new LH product?



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineMillwallSean From Singapore, joined Apr 2008, 1234 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6791 times:

Is marketshare or frequency what wins a market?
If that was so the american carriers would be bathing in money, they arent.

Profitability is whats important and the airline producing the highest profits is BA.

And whoever reckons new seats will make DLs service competitive needs to fly more. Customer service is alot more than seats. DL and american carriers in general is at the bottom of most international surveys and new seats wont change that. New attitudes and more invested money will. Neither is forthcoming at DL at the moment.



No One Likes Us - We Dont Care.
User currently offlineMysterzip From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 167 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6759 times:

To me, customer service goes hand in hand with giving me the kind of seat that I want. Personally, the market share would certainly go to BA, as well as seat comfort but definitely not cabin service. Even though I've never been on Delta going to LHR, but I did fly them transatlantic, based on that, I would give the superior cabin crew rating to Delta. I can't wait for Delta to refurbish their Y and J classes.

User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24670 posts, RR: 22
Reply 7, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6758 times:



Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 5):
Is marketshare or frequency what wins a market?
If that was so the american carriers would be bathing in money, they arent.

Profitability is whats important and the airline producing the highest profits is BA.

And since the subject of this thread is the London-New York market, BA also has the largest market share.


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 8, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6747 times:

AA might only be second to BA in servicing the route.......there is a reason why AA puts a staggering 5-6 B777's (depending on season) with F-class seats on this route.

DL is a joke compared to AA on this route...not even close in terms of many matrices used..

Apropos, I'm sure there is a particular A.netter here (cough, cough) who will someway, somehow show how DL is doing great...i.e.-best yield, best revenue growth, or something... biggrin 



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineSpartanmjf From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 492 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6709 times:

Having done more a couple roundrips this year from PHL/EWR/JFK to LHR on multiple carriers, I have to give BA the Premium Economy nod over VS for overall comfort and consistency [I have done BA, EI, US, VS and, about a year ago, Kuwait].

US doesn't compare to the other four. I found EI to be the most 'cramped' in terms of comfort.

In fairness, I flew WT+ / Premium on BA and VS, economy on the others. I have not had the pleasure of flying CO or DL on the route[s].

In terms of yield, I cannot believe that it is anyone other than BA or AA given the number of premium seats they have on the market.



"Nuts to the man in 21D!"
User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3077 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6690 times:



Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 4):
Would you say the same when DL rolls out their new LH product?

We'll have to see...

On the premium side, I will say that BA's current club world seats look better than either of the new seats being used by Delta, although I obviously haven't tried Delta's. But, BA's seem like they would offer more privacy and space. The two might be equal. Obviously DL doesn't have F or E+, so those can't compare.

In coach, DL still has a ways to go. BA has more comfortable seats (winged headrests, lumbar, etc. compared with the short, slippery vinyl seats used by DL), AVOD, and free booze. If DL put in similar seats then they'd probably be pretty similar.


User currently offlineLACA773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4002 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6682 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 1):
BA without a doubt for share

VS for service quality

Market Share: 1) BA; 2) AA; 3) VS
Service wise: BA is #1 all the way around. From what I've read and heard by word of mouth, VS's inflight product, in particular Upper Class, isn't what it used to be and there have been many remarkable cutbacks in service and catering.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 8):
AA might only be second to BA in servicing the route.......there is a reason why AA puts a staggering 5-6 B777's (depending on season) with F-class seats on this route.

DL is a joke compared to AA on this route...not even close in terms of many matrices used..

Hey Jacob, How's it going my friend?
I do have to agree that AA beats/blows DL out of the water on the JFK-LHR route and that will always be the case.
However, DL does offer a better main cabin product than AA does by a long run. DL has made many many improvements to their inflight product, in fact I feel their international main cabin service is far superior to that of AA, UA & NW. They have really been making a wonderful effort to give their customers a very positive experience with their main cabin service.

I feel DL's BIZ Elite has much better catering and crew than AA. When it comes to the seats, it's a matter of opinion but because they do lie flat, AA wins here for the majority I believe. When DL gets their new cabins for the 76Xs they will be ahead of AA.


User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3589 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6654 times:



Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 5):
DL and american carriers in general is at the bottom of most international surveys and new seats wont change that. New attitudes and more invested money will. Neither is forthcoming at DL at the moment.

DL actually does very well in soft product (very friendly customer and in flight service, good food and wines in J class, at least a free cocktail with dinner, AVOD on all J class and much of their Y classes).

The hard product currently is undergoing an upgrade with new lie flats in all premium classes being installed. This is where they currently fall quite short in my opinion.

If they indeed reinstate an international F class as well (as is rumored), they will be competitive with most any airline in the world.

And before you jump to any conclusions of bias because of my moniker, I am currently an AA EXP, DL Plat, and a TG Gold. This the last year alone I have flown longhaul in in J or F on AA, QF, BA, CO, UA, KL, TG, CX, MA, DL, KA, LH, SQ, NH plus probably a few others that don't come to mind right now.

I am not loyal to any airline these days.


User currently offlineUpstateDave From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 210 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 6553 times:

In terms of service, its important that long-haul premium products often offer lounge access to enhance the overall experience. The travel experience is much more than the in-flight Product and both BA and VS beat DL in this respect with much better lounge facilities in NYC (offering proper meals) and arrivals lounge that let you go right to work upon arrival. Additionally, VS has an unrivaled business class check-in facility in LHR that advertises 10 minutes limo to lounge service while BA has a myriad of amazing new lounges at T5.

Additionally, anyone who wants to say that the DL customer service overcomes the lack of lie-flat seat has never attempted to go to work upon arrival in the UK. A lie-flat sleep lets you get a proper nights sleep - bottom line.

It is interesting that you all say VS has slipped... Not according the Conde Nast's most recent survey - one of the most acclaimed in the world (but of course still subject to the demographics of its readers):

http://www.concierge.com/cntraveler/articles/13142

Transatlantic Business class

#1 VS - 85.2 overall rating
#2 SQ - 83.2
#3 Emirates - 80.4
#4 BA - 65.0
#5 CO - 63.6
#6 Austrian - 60.8
#7 LH - 59.9
#8 KLM - 57.5
#9 NWA - 56.6
#10 AF - 56.4


Dave



"Once you fly, you will walk with your eyes skyward. For there you will go again." Leonardo da Vinci
User currently onlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11409 posts, RR: 59
Reply 14, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 6517 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

In general, VS is the king in terms of service, BA is the top in scheduling.

Quoting LACA773 (Reply 11):
I do have to agree that AA beats/blows DL out of the water on the JFK-LHR route and that will always be the case.
However, DL does offer a better main cabin product than AA does by a long run. DL has made many many improvements to their inflight product, in fact I feel their international main cabin service is far superior to that of AA, UA & NW. They have really been making a wonderful effort to give their customers a very positive experience with their main cabin service.

Very good analysis! Agreed !!!!



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4741 posts, RR: 45
Reply 15, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 6497 times:



Quoting RwSEA (Reply 10):
We'll have to see...

On the premium side, I will say that BA's current club world seats look better than either of the new seats being used by Delta, although I obviously haven't tried Delta's. But, BA's seem like they would offer more privacy and space. The two might be equal. Obviously DL doesn't have F or E+, so those can't compare.

In coach, DL still has a ways to go. BA has more comfortable seats (winged headrests, lumbar, etc. compared with the short, slippery vinyl seats used by DL), AVOD, and free booze. If DL put in similar seats then they'd probably be pretty similar.

Not arguing. Flown DL BizE a few times this year back and forth and the hard-product needs significant upgrading. The soft-product, is great for my liking. And I prefer DL's crews...maybe not as polished as a few of the others, but always feels like home.

What's interesting to me is the hard-product upgrades DL is putting into both J and Y. The DL new J seat is a tremendous improvement, lie-flat and has a sense of privacy. The new Y product that is planned for roll-out (CozySuite) is amazing and will bring AVOD, a headrest, more personal space, less invasiveness by other passengers, etc. It will take some people time to get used to the new staggared layout in Y...and crews from what I'm hearing.

For now, it's probably fair to say that there are significantly better hard-products out there. I choose DL, you may choose another carrier. That's what's great about competition....



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineLogos From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 793 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6184 times:



Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 15):
The new Y product that is planned for roll-out (CozySuite) is amazing and will bring AVOD, a headrest, more personal space, less invasiveness by other passengers, etc. It will take some people time to get used to the new staggared layout in Y...and crews from what I'm hearing.

I guess I missed this - is Delta installing the staggered Thompson (I think that's the manufacturer) seats in Y on its widebodies? That's a significant step if they are.

Cheers,
Dave in Orlando



Too many types flown to list
User currently offlineUAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 6135 times:



Quoting UpstateDave (Reply 13):
Additionally, anyone who wants to say that the DL customer service overcomes the lack of lie-flat seat has never attempted to go to work upon arrival in the UK. A lie-flat sleep lets you get a proper nights sleep - bottom line.

You hit the nail on the head there, a lot of people in the forward cabis usually land and go straight to work and a lie flat offering a good nights sleep is a must in my book.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 8):
Apropos, I'm sure there is a particular A.netter here (cough, cough) who will someway, somehow show how DL is doing great...i.e.-best yield, best revenue growth, or something...

I cannot begin to imagine who you are referring to!  Wink

Anyway, in terms of market share undoubtably BA wins hands down and I suspect they are there in service as well. I wonder how the credit crunch is affecting BA and AA with yields in the front cabis. Surely there has to be a knock on effect to them on such a "hot" route for the finacial industry.


User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8256 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 6006 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

The UK airlines have stronger frequencies and products, they also have better airplanes. BA and Virgin have 744, 777 and A346, all big roomy planes. Delta uses only 767's to Europe including JFK to LHR, a huge mistake: I know they have only a limited 777 fleet. Continental and AA have 777, mostly, from New York to LHR. The problem for many airlines is the right number of daily flights at the right hours with the challenge LHR slots. AA has 17 flights to LHR so their LHR to JFK schedule is all day. Delta has a flight too early in the morning and too late in the afternoon. Virgin Atlantic has taken years to get the right mix of slots since 1991 when it first went to LHR. LHR to New York is always amazing given so many flight, most routes if lucky from LHR to the USA get 2 if lucky 3 flight a day per airline; that is a thin club, BOS, LAX, SFO, IAD, IAH, DFW and ORD.

User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4741 posts, RR: 45
Reply 19, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5853 times:



Quoting Logos (Reply 17):
I guess I missed this - is Delta installing the staggered Thompson (I think that's the manufacturer) seats in Y on its widebodies? That's a significant step if they are.

Cheers,
Dave in Orlando

Yes Delta is launch customer for the Thompson CozySuite here in NA. They'll be installed on all 767/777 DL a/c and more than likely on the NW 330s. Not sure about the 747s given usage and retirement plans.



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17291 posts, RR: 46
Reply 20, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 5652 times:



Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 19):
Delta uses only 767's to Europe including JFK to LHR, a huge mistake

Skyteam has the biggest "hill" to climb in the London, and specifically NYC/LON market since they have a very limited presence in LON and DL is obviously trying to grow its NYC operation. It's therefore no surprise that DL and AF do not get much of the premium traffic on JFKLHR or LAXLHR, respectively, but it has nothing to do with the aircraft choice and everything to do with the schedule (or rather lack thereof) and connectivity in LON (again, lack thereof).



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently onlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7364 posts, RR: 17
Reply 21, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 5450 times:



Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 18):
I wonder how the credit crunch is affecting BA and AA with yields in the front cabis.

This is what the BA monthly report for July, the latest so far available, said:

"Market conditions for the industry remain very difficult on the back of high oil prices and a weak economic environment. Longhaul premium remains broadly flat versus last year while non-premium bookings remain most sensitive to price changes."

This suggests that at least back in July the business traveller was still travelling but that tourism was falling awa on the back of higher prices reflecting price increases due to the cost of fuel.


User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8256 posts, RR: 7
Reply 22, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 5170 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

IF Skyteam and Delta wanted a real chance from LHR to JFK Air France should lease DL 2 777 and fly them on the route.

User currently offlineANITIX87 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 3299 posts, RR: 13
Reply 23, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 4846 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

From my Trans-Atlantic experience, which includes VS, AA, CO, and DL from the list above, I'm definitely going to have to say CO wins, hands down. I was so impressed flying EWR-ZRH and LGW-EWR this summer.

Along the same lines, and even though this thread is about LHR, I would choose CO just to avoid it and be able to fly out of LGW.

TIS



www.stellaryear.com: Canon EOS 50D, Canon EOS 5DMkII, Sigma 50mm 1.4, Canon 24-70 2.8L II, Canon 100mm 2.8L, Canon 100-4
User currently offlineLuv2cattlecall From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1650 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 4597 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting RwSEA (Reply 10):
slippery vinyl seats

Was that a joke..or do they really use school bus pleather?



When you have to breaststroke to your connecting flight...it's a crash!
25 AA777223 : Is there a chance, once this DL/NW business all goes through we might see DL up the ante with a freshly painted 744 on the route? It might be just wha
26 VV701 : I think you will have to switch to BA at the end of this month to get from LGW to NYC. While I believe CO will move their LGW-EWR 752 flight to LHR a
27 NYC2theworld : CO is leaving LGW unfortunately.
28 CityofAthens : As far as I can see, no one has mentioned anything about Kuwait Airways yet ... any experiences of their service on the Atlantic route?
29 Burnsie28 : Haha, NW's beats DL's hands down, and that new suite that takes away the window since it will be so far away won't do anything good for those who wan
30 Panamair : Nonsense. A full lie-flat seat beats an angled lie-flat seat any day, any time, anywhere, window or no window.
31 ANITIX87 : Too bad CO is leaving, but I guess it then becomes a good thing I never fly to England unless it's on a layover, haha. Guess I'll have to fly non-sto
32 Baexecutive : I've just returned from a trip (MAN-JFK) and both legs were packed out in CW and WT+
33 DLPMMM : I don't know the intentions of the poster. The seats on DL are all real leather.
34 Alitalia744 : See the seat in person and look at the LOPA and you will realize you aren't "so far away won't do anything good for those who want a window." [Edited
35 Post contains links LACA773 : Thanks LipeGIG for the compliment. Dave, do you have any idea when they might start the seat conversion on their long haul fleet? I remember reading
36 Theginge : BA have increased capacity to EWR as they are running a 744 there on one of the daily flights.
37 MaverickM11 : They're not filling a 763 currently, and they need a better schedule to LHR if they are going to remain a player in the market, so I would expect mor
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Does Anyone Know Who Got The LHR Slot? posted Tue Jul 30 2002 00:37:35 by Deltadude8
Who Was The 1st Airline To Offer Daytripper To LHR posted Mon Feb 20 2006 21:10:50 by AirCanada014
Who Controls The Slots At LHR posted Sat Oct 22 2005 20:36:47 by SunriseValley
Who Has The Best Terminal At JFK posted Tue Apr 20 2004 02:58:40 by GREATANSETT
Who Flew 747s DAL-JFK In The Early 70s? posted Sat Feb 21 2004 23:29:41 by Ssides
Why No JFK/EWR-LHR-AMD Flights? posted Fri Dec 19 2003 22:31:13 by Cloud4000
Who Is Using The New JFK Concourse? posted Sun May 20 2001 06:48:47 by Boeing in pdx
How Is AA And UAL On JFK-LHR And EWR-LHR? posted Wed Mar 29 2000 07:51:43 by VirginA340
DL Vs. CO, Who Gets The Kids? posted Fri Aug 1 2008 13:56:07 by Ikramerica
What Was Going On W/ The UA 757 @ EWR On Saturday posted Sat Jun 14 2008 22:36:56 by B727fan