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TAM Starting GRU-MCO Daily Eff. Nov 21st  
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3736 posts, RR: 19
Posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 4370 times:

TAM's new service to MCO is about to be loaded in the system. You can now consider effective November 21st:

JJ8086 daily 332 GRU 1130 MCO 1700
JJ8087 daily 332 MCO 1850 GRU 0635

Schedule expressed in local time

Configuration: 42C/171Y

62 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAF086 From France, joined Jan 2007, 1066 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4351 times:



Quoting C010T3 (Thread starter):
Configuration: 42C/171Y

Isn't the configuration "too premium" for MCO? JJ could switch GIG-JFK's 763(which is operated by a single aircraft) for this 332 given the higher yield of the route to NY.



Please insert a "smart" joke here.
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3736 posts, RR: 19
Reply 2, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4290 times:



Quoting AF086 (Reply 1):
Isn't the configuration "too premium" for MCO? JJ could switch GIG-JFK's 763(which is operated by a single aircraft) for this 332 given the higher yield of the route to NY.

I agree, but the 332 is understandable now, because they will use a frame that would otherwise stay the whole day at GRU.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33289 posts, RR: 71
Reply 3, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4266 times:



Quoting AF086 (Reply 1):
Isn't the configuration "too premium" for MCO? JJ could switch GIG-JFK's 763(which is operated by a single aircraft) for this 332 given the higher yield of the route to NY.

TAM is currently in discussions to acquire a 4th 767 from an African airline for use on the Orlando route. If that fails, TAM is planning to specially configure a single A330 in a high-density configuration by removing as many as 26 business class seats.

Until then they are stuck with this aircraft, which is far from ideal for the route in it's configuration.



a.
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 4, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4253 times:
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Quoting C010T3 (Thread starter):

I expect a MCO-GRU daylight instead of this overnight leg.

Quoting AF086 (Reply 1):
Isn't the configuration "too premium" for MCO? JJ could switch GIG-JFK's 763(which is operated by a single aircraft) for this 332 given the higher yield of the route to NY.

The problem is the fact that TAM build a maintenance base for 763's at GIG. Now they are facing the same problem... GIG-MIA as per TAM's info got 80% loads (info from a TAM Director to the market) and they do not have a premium product to compete against AA.

Now they put an A332 on MCO route, which IMO will become "Red Fidelity" (it's current top tier FF card) paradise. Lots of upgrades ahead as i do not expect deep discount C fares.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 3):
TAM is currently in discussions to acquire a 4th 767 from an African airline for use on the Orlando route. If that fails, TAM is planning to specially configure a single A330 in a high-density configuration by removing as many as 26 business class seats.

Correct, lets wait... 42C is too much for MCO (even considering a crew block of 3 seats)!



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineIncitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4070 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 4235 times:



Quoting C010T3 (Thread starter):
JJ8086 daily 332 GRU 1130 MCO 1700
JJ8087 daily 332 MCO 1850 GRU 0635

Schedule expressed in local time

The schedule makes good sense. It could be even better if it was all moved an hour or 90 minutes later to allow more connections leaving GRU. It would also allow travelers one last day at the parks in Orlando before heading out to the airport to depart at 8:00pm or 8:30pm.



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User currently offlineVC10er From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 2989 posts, RR: 13
Reply 6, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 4181 times:
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should the crowds of Brazilians use TAM flags at Disney? the CMA ones are really boring. I love how proud the Brazilians are when in large groups at Disney- more power to them. Brazil is the next big country on the world stage.

Did VARIG ever do that flight? and was it a success?



The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 7, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 4160 times:
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Quoting VC10er (Reply 6):
should the crowds of Brazilians use TAM flags at Disney? the CMA ones are really boring. I love how proud the Brazilians are when in large groups at Disney- more power to them. Brazil is the next big country on the world stage

Some of them. IMO AA will continue as the biggest operator to MCO from Brazil even without a direct flight.

Quoting VC10er (Reply 6):
Did VARIG ever do that flight? and was it a success?

Transbrasil tried in the past, and it was not a success. Got good loads, but yields... terrible.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3736 posts, RR: 19
Reply 8, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4136 times:



Quoting VC10er (Reply 6):
I love how proud the Brazilians are when in large groups at Disney

What do you exactly mean?


User currently offlineAF022 From France, joined Dec 2003, 2175 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4118 times:



Quoting VC10er (Reply 6):
Did VARIG ever do that flight? and was it a success?

VARIG did operate the flight as an extension of the MIA flight - I think the GRU flight was extended but GIG-MIA passengers could connect to the MIA-MCO leg of the GRU-MIA-MCO flight.

Loads I believe were pretty good, but I think yields were bad and they didn't pick up much traffic from the competition.


User currently offlineJmbarros12 From Brazil, joined Nov 2007, 249 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 4048 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 4):
I expect a MCO-GRU daylight instead of this overnight leg

Agree Lipe, it makes more sense.



Go Boeing!
User currently offlineJJMNGR From Brazil, joined May 2004, 1018 posts, RR: 15
Reply 11, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 4005 times:

What I can tell you all is that TAM is doing some terrible mistakes, specially in administration. A lot of top executives of the company are being substituted by VARIG/VARIGLOG ex- executives. The more dangerous consequences of this the future will tell.
But in short term, what we can see is that TAM is making a lot of mistakes VARIG/VARIGLOG did in the past. I mean in terms of selection of some aircrafts, routes which were proven in the past did not work, etc...etc...

To me a complete shame as the recent past speech, now in other hands are something totally different. Time will tell again...to me, looks like the movie VARIG II, the return.

Cheers,


User currently offlineCabinboy From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2000, 189 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3986 times:

is there really a demand for this route..seems a strange one to me?

User currently offlineJmbarros12 From Brazil, joined Nov 2007, 249 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3984 times:

Hello JJMNGR,

Long time no see...

Quoting JJMNGR (Reply 11):
TAM is doing some terrible mistakes, specially in administration

That´s a little surprising for me... I´ve read a lot of posts here on A.net about how good were the decisions made by TAM on its international routes expansion and acquisition of the B763´s...

As an insider, I believe you have good reasons to say that. But what do you think about the arguments that were written on A.net forums?

Sds,

João Marcelo



Go Boeing!
User currently offlineJJMNGR From Brazil, joined May 2004, 1018 posts, RR: 15
Reply 14, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3909 times:



Quoting Jmbarros12 (Reply 13):
As an insider, I believe you have good reasons to say that. But what do you think about the arguments that were written on A.net forums?

João, my opinion is similar to what happened during a lot of posts while VARIG started its fate. Most of other opinions posted here about RG, were based in articles posted by the media and as I wrote many times, a piece of paper can accept any thing. Please understand a piece of paper as a web page, etc... at that time I participated of many, many meetings and I was one of the few here in this forum to post the truth and real situation of VARIG.
What I will write now, I will do it for the very first time. I was in a meeting room together with other 05 people in a meeting, when we received a phone call from a former RG VP asking for a help during that episode of the B772 was retained at CDG by lessor. Remember that episode? Than came the code-share with them rumors about fusion, etc...etc... Since than, what I had most was information. At that time I could not post everything because I always tried to keep a distance between my nick name here and my position inside the company. But I tried to post facts that I knew and many times these fact were confused by many, as my own opinion.

Now it is quite the same...the company is posting information to media and everybody read and believe it is true. My recommendation ?...please take care and do not believe in anything you read or listen. Just this.

If I could change my nick right now I´d certainly do it.

Rgds


User currently offlineIncitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4070 posts, RR: 13
Reply 15, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3876 times:



Quoting Jmbarros12 (Reply 10):
Agree Lipe, it makes more sense.

Why would MCO-GRU daylight make more sense? The time zone change would work agaisnt it, especially in December/January, and we would have something like a 10am departure for a 9:40pm arrival. It would either have to leave MCO too early or nix most connections at GRU.



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User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 16, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3876 times:



Quoting JJMNGR (Reply 11):
But in short term, what we can see is that TAM is making a lot of mistakes VARIG/VARIGLOG did in the past. I mean in terms of selection of some aircrafts, routes which were proven in the past did not work, etc...etc...

And agree with you. It seems the change in the strategy of TAM is too radical and only time will tell us about the deep mistakes and wrong decisions TAM is taking now. I am sure some of the new routes to be operated by TAM will heavily penalise the balance sheet of the airline in the coming year. It seems that by the time TAM is looking every day more like the failing VARIG we all know.

Rgs,


User currently offline797 From Venezuela, joined Aug 2005, 1907 posts, RR: 27
Reply 17, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3854 times:

Good news,

Anyone willing to meet in MCO for the arrival on the 21st?

I'll be there with some friends hunting the A332, It will surely be a nice sight for MCO (not to mention that the LH A346 arrives at 18.40 - 15 minutes before JJ departs back to GRU)



Flying isn't dangerous. Crashing is what's dangerous!
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 18, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3787 times:
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Quoting JJMNGR (Reply 11):
What I can tell you all is that TAM is doing some terrible mistakes, specially in administration. A lot of top executives of the company are being substituted by VARIG/VARIGLOG ex- executives. The more dangerous consequences of this the future will tell.



Quoting JJMNGR (Reply 11):
But in short term, what we can see is that TAM is making a lot of mistakes VARIG/VARIGLOG did in the past. I mean in terms of selection of some aircrafts, routes which were proven in the past did not work, etc...etc...

Agree 100% ! We use to have a TAM very careful with expansion... now become too crazy!

Quoting Cabinboy (Reply 12):
is there really a demand for this route..seems a strange one to me?

While the US$ x BRL continues at a lower rate (now it's closer to R$ 2.02 which is not so exciting...), you will see a big demand. TAM is focusing on leisure market and groups, and in my view, they will face problems to fill the Business cabin as well as with Cargo.

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 15):
Why would MCO-GRU daylight make more sense? The time zone change would work agaisnt it, especially in December/January, and we would have something like a 10am departure for a 9:40pm arrival. It would either have to leave MCO too early or nix most connections at GRU

Because it's easy to manage groups with a night departure at GRU then the morning one, and you wouldn't need to stay outside a hotel waiting for a flight if it departs on Early Morning. I mean, if you're focusing Brazilians, it's more comfortable to offer daylight MCO-GRU.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33289 posts, RR: 71
Reply 19, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3724 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 18):
While the US$ x BRL continues at a lower rate (now it's closer to R$ 2.02 which is not so exciting...), you will see a big demand. TAM is focusing on leisure market and groups, and in my view, they will face problems to fill the Business cabin as well as with Cargo.

It is my understanding that TAM has reached deals with tour operators to make this flight work. As long as the tour operators are filling the seats, it will do fine. TAM might be better off selling the airplane as all-Y, offering the business class seats to full-fare Y and elite frequent fliers. This is what Aer Lingus does to Orlando since there is no premium demand. Virgin Atlantic to MCO, meanwhile, sells part of the Premium Economy cabin as economy to full-Y and elite fliers.



a.
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 20, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3712 times:
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Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 19):
It is my understanding that TAM has reached deals with tour operators to make this flight work. As long as the tour operators are filling the seats, it will do fine. TAM might be better off selling the airplane as all-Y, offering the business class seats to full-fare Y and elite frequent fliers. This is what Aer Lingus does to Orlando since there is no premium demand. Virgin Atlantic to MCO, meanwhile, sells part of the Premium Economy cabin as economy to full-Y and elite fliers.

And they just upload the flight. Seems craziness to imagine selling MCO C seat at US$ 8,000 Round Trip on TAM's website even if we imagine they could see a little C demand... but of course, there's option at this time. One of the biggest TAM consolidators in USA, Clickandfly.com, is selling the seat on C for US$ 1,800 OW , R/T US$ 3,600. On Y R/T for US$ 920.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineSoxfan From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 870 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3706 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 3):
TAM is currently in discussions to acquire a 4th 767 from an African airline for use on the Orlando route

I don't want to make a blanket statement, but I've heard that a lot of African airlines don't have good safety/quality records. Is it possible that, depending on the airline vendor, the 767 would need to undergo a lot of maintenance prior to be putting in to service?

I'm not trying to put myself in a position to be flamed, but I'm just curious if the reputation I've heard of African airlines (not all) is true, and if so, whether this would have an effect. It's also possible those airlines with the spotty reputations could be primarily domestic or only within Africa, operating shorter-haul aircraft.

[Edited 2008-10-02 20:29:39]


Pilot: "Request push, which way should we face?" JFK Ground: "You better face the front, sir, or you'll scare the pax!"
User currently offlineMIAMIx707 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3653 times:



Quoting AF022 (Reply 9):
VARIG did operate the flight as an extension of the MIA flight - I think the GRU flight was extended but GIG-MIA passengers could connect to the MIA-MCO leg of the GRU-MIA-MCO flight.

Loads I believe were pretty good, but I think yields were bad and they didn't pick up much traffic from the competition.

Varig was entering serious financial problems at that time, likely the reason the Orlando extension was cut. Otherwise it's very likely this route would have lasted a lot longer than it did. VASP was another Brazilian airline that lfew to Orlando.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 7):
Quoting VC10er (Reply 6):
Did VARIG ever do that flight? and was it a success?

Transbrasil tried in the past, and it was not a success. Got good loads, but yields... terrible.

The airline flying this route daily for so many years would indicate the yields couldn't have been so terrible. In case they were, TransBrasil was a tourist airline basically.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 18):

Agree 100% ! We use to have a TAM very careful with expansion... now become too crazy!

Nothing crazy about adding MCO. This service was overdue.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 19):
This is what Aer Lingus does to Orlando since there is no premium demand.

Aer Lingus cutting a frequency to SFO to add a frequency to Orlando would indicate MCO is making money, which indicates it's bringing enough $, in this case even more than a California route, whether you want to call it premium or not premium.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33289 posts, RR: 71
Reply 23, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3651 times:



Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 22):

Aer Lingus cutting a frequency to SFO to add a frequency to Orlando would indicate MCO is making money, which indicates it's bringing enough $, in this case even more than a California route, whether you want to call it premium or not premium.

Never said anything otherwise. Low-yield routes can still make money.

However, just because an airline adds service does not mean anything. Often times an airline can boost the performance of a poor performing route by adding frequency, either because it will a) attract more business travelers, b) allow them to spread the costs of a low-yielding station across more flights, or c) add capacity which will allow them to grab more contracts with tour operators to pre-buy seats in bulk.

The addition of frequency is not an absolute indication that any route is profitable. With strong performing routes, airlines like to keep a tighter control on capacity, because adding capacity just hurts already strong yields.



a.
User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8691 posts, RR: 16
Reply 24, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3644 times:



Quoting 797 (Reply 17):

Anyone willing to meet in MCO for the arrival on the 21st?

More than likely no as I have leadership conference for my college. IM me with more details and put me on the maybe list.

Hunter



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
25 Lobster : Of course, low yield routes can make money. But the product (especially configuration) should be different. Deploying a premium configured aircraft i
26 LipeGIG : Sorry, you didn't got my point and i never said MCO is crazy, i'm one of the people that imagine they can obtain profit on this flight. Let me explai
27 Incitatus : GRU is a zoo exactly during the US-bound night departure time window. Maybe there is something I don't know about how TAM can make life easier for gr
28 LipeGIG : Groups are not only from São Paulo. You have enough time to connect at night while you can't trust on São Paulo traffic to perform a CGH-GRU transf
29 MIAMIx707 : Glad to read your informative, unbiased post Lipe actually it ended because the airline went bust, they even had one of their 767s repossessed at Miam
30 MAH4546 : The Brazilian community in Orlando is about 8,000, about 1/15th the size of Boston, the largest Brazilian community in the U.S. Orlando's Brazilian c
31 MIAMIx707 : My friend, have you ever lived in Orlando/Central Florida? The day you live there you'll see how many Brazilians there are, and not just in the Orlan
32 Post contains links MAH4546 : It simply takes looking at U.S. Census data or doing simple research on the internet. I don't understand why you take things so personally. Orlando d
33 MIAMIx707 : That's the definition of stubborn, that's a fact lol... You're right, there's none. That's why when I flew UA MIA-MCO most of the plane was full of B
34 C010T3 : Indeed, since "ethnic" and "Brazil" are words that rarely match.
35 NASCARAirforce : When did UA fly MIA-MCO?
36 MIAMIx707 : That was back in 2002. Each time I flew it was a diff. aircraft too, 737, A319/A320, and even 757 not to "slam" MAH again, but no wonder something di
37 MAH4546 : So what? There is a very nice Thai temple and monastery in Homestead, does that mean there are a lot of Thais in Miami? Nope. Beautiful Japanese gard
38 MIAMIx707 : I just have an observation to make: I can't help but notice how many times you MAH4546 edit posts, indicating how much effort is spent coming up with
39 C010T3 : That means that if you go one step further, you start offending Brazilians. I thought that your knowledge of the Brazilian aviation market came with
40 Dellatorre : C'mon girls.. stop bitching around we are not back to kindergarten!!! Movin' on.......
41 MIAMIx707 : aww she feels left out! it's ok baby...
42 MAH4546 : I'm sorry if it sounds offensive, but it might be a language barrier issue. There is nothing offensive in English about the word "ethnic Brazilians."
43 C010T3 : There is really no language barrier here. Just as there is no "ethnic "American"", "ethnic Brazilian" doesn't exist. I know you wanted to imply VFR t
44 Jmbarros12 : As "Visits to Friends and Relatives"? Joao Marcelo
45 MCOflyer : 797, Lets start a list of who attending: Confirmed: 797 and friends MCOflyer Hunter
46 MAH4546 : You are reading the word colloquially. The casual meaning of "ethnic Brazilian traffic" is simply VFR, so yes, there is a language barrier. But so be
47 Hardiwv : Any news regarding TAM efforts to get an extra B767 from an African airline to in order to replace the A330 in MCO? With the USD above 2 R$ I think TA
48 LipeGIG : Not yet Hardi. Agree, but TAM may use MCO to handle additional Y demand from US to Brazil as in the opposite, we shall see an increase on US-Brazil d
49 Hardiwv : But I am not sure whether we will see a lot of new US demand to Brazil, especially now with the situation in the US. Also MCO will not allow for conn
50 LipeGIG : Hardi, TAM offers a wide range of connections thru AA at MIA (of course as an interline). My point is that they can complete the MCO demand with low
51 Lobster : Probably you have a better insight into the figures, but I cannot imagine that interline is appealing to many customers. Especially beyong MCO with n
52 LipeGIG : It's early to talk about connections, but TAM expect a small number of connections to fill the flights. O&D will be from all Brazil in fact focusing
53 C010T3 : I guess that nonstop UA connecting flights can only be found to LAX and DEN from MCO. JJ should really invest selling LAX through MCO. It's really th
54 LipeGIG : Thanks for the clarification on MIA-LAX and MCO-LAX. And i believe that MCO can be used to provide some connections not only to West Coast, but also
55 MCOGVADCA : TAM will be operating out of airside 4, correct? With United on the other side of the airport, would connecting passengers have to deal with MCO's (ni
56 C010T3 : How's MCO's immigration these days? The security lines could be compensated with fast immigration. It would be only oneway, but it would help.
57 Post contains links Hardiwv : It seems the US consulates in Brazil are giving a hand to improve travel to the US... US Department of State announced major improvements in the VISA
58 Clipper136 : Thia happens quite a bit today. AA/BA LH/UA LH/US AS/DL NW/DL all codeshare and conect pax through MCO. The volume of pax trasfering is not great, bu
59 LipeGIG : US consul in Rio said to me they receive about 1,000 daily applications in Rio with 95% concession rate. Process was very quick as in less than 45 mi
60 Hardiwv : Very good news and high approval rates for VISA. Brazil has now a rejection rate of 5% only. Thanks, but Sao Paulo has more staff than BOG. You have
61 Incitatus : I've dealt with the Embassy in Brasilia and both consulates in Rio and Sao Paulo. I have to say the consular personnel who work in Sao Paulo are OUTS
62 LipeGIG : Well, as i mentioned my experience in Rio were very good on three times and it's improving. Probably if i visited any other consulate or the embassy
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