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Latin American Airlines And The 747  
User currently offlineBirdwatching From Germany, joined Sep 2003, 3801 posts, RR: 51
Posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 12090 times:

While there used to be a bunch of 747 operators in Latin America in the 70s - 90s, they seem to be almost gone from the continent now. Lan Chile operated the Jumbo, so did Avianca, Viasa, Varig, Aerolineas, did I miss any?
Aerolineas Argentinas used to have a good fleet, they have about 2 now? Are those the only two 747s based in Latin America at the moment? Who thinks there will be any second hand 744s or even 748s going to Latin America in the future?

Soren  santahat 


All the things you probably hate about travelling are warm reminders that I'm home
43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineGabo787 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2006, 154 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 12024 times:

AR has 3 744 (LV-ALJ, LV-AXF, LV-BBU) and 5L have a 743 (CP-2525 "Torisimo") for its flights to MAD
and sadly those are all the 747's that operates for Latin American airlines at the moment  

[Edited 2008-10-02 10:07:21]

[Edited 2008-10-02 10:07:57]

User currently offlineBirdwatching From Germany, joined Sep 2003, 3801 posts, RR: 51
Reply 2, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 11920 times:

Add this plane to the list and make it 4. South America yes, but it doesn't count as Latin America though.


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Soren  santahat 



All the things you probably hate about travelling are warm reminders that I'm home
User currently offlineLVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 37
Reply 3, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 11892 times:



Quoting Birdwatching (Thread starter):
While there used to be a bunch of 747 operators in Latin America in the 70s - 90s, they seem to be almost gone from the continent now. Lan Chile operated the Jumbo, so did Avianca, Viasa, Varig, Aerolineas, did I miss any?
Aerolineas Argentinas used to have a good fleet, they have about 2 now? Are those the only two 747s based in Latin America at the moment? Who thinks there will be any second hand 744s or even 748s going to Latin America in the future?

Southern Winds also operated one (a -200) for 4 months alongside AR in 2005, before the former was brought down by a drugs scandal. During that time, Argentina became the only country in Latin American history to boast TWO 747 operators.

The AR -400s were very nearly kicked-out of the fleet recently, though now it looks like they are to stay for maybe four more years.

Not to discredit LAN and VIASA, but they did not operate 747s beyond a wet-lease as far as I remember--certainly never placed them on their respective local registers. Those that did (and in this order) were the following:

AV
AR
RG
A4
PY
5L

Saludos,

ZXV



How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
User currently offlineCityAirline From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 685 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 11887 times:

Aerosur has an old 747, which they use for VVI-MAD-VVI.

//Alex



I don't fly to live, I live to fly...
User currently offlineLobster From Germany, joined Oct 2008, 49 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 11851 times:

It's not a true airline, but Worldwide Aircraft Holding Co has a 747-SP (VP-BAT). They are registered in Bermuda and thus are part of Latin America.

User currently offlineAdicool From Netherlands, joined Apr 2007, 292 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 11814 times:



Quoting Lobster (Reply 5):
It's not a true airline, but Worldwide Aircraft Holding Co has a 747-SP (VP-BAT). They are registered in Bermuda and thus are part of Latin America.

Bermunda is a British overseas territory and as not even remotely something to do with Latin America!


User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3677 posts, RR: 19
Reply 7, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 11719 times:



Quoting Lobster (Reply 5):
They are registered in Bermuda and thus are part of Latin America.

 bomb  OMG.


User currently offlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3291 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 11681 times:



Quoting Adicool (Reply 6):
Bermunda is a British overseas territory and as not even remotely something to do with Latin America!

Not to mention the fact that I believe several VIP 747s are registered in Bermuda for tax purposes.


User currently offlineLobster From Germany, joined Oct 2008, 49 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 11641 times:



Quoting Lobster (Reply 5):
It's not a true airline, but Worldwide Aircraft Holding Co has a 747-SP (VP-BAT). They are registered in Bermuda and thus are part of Latin America.

Oh my god. Must have been braindead. The tool I used to make the query has Bermuda in the Area of 'Central America' and I just copied it into here translating 'Central America' into 'Latin America'. Shame on me and won't happen again  Wink


User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8247 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 11528 times:
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The only airline that had a Pacific route system and high demand routes to fill a 747 was VARIG. Those were days before 777 and A340's, RG was really the only Latin American airline ever needing a 747. They opertated 742, 743 and 744's( now with Air New Zealand).

User currently offlineRICARIZA From Colombia, joined Apr 2005, 2380 posts, RR: 26
Reply 11, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 11474 times:



Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 10):
The only airline that had a Pacific route system and high demand routes to fill a 747 was VARIG. Those were days before 777 and A340's, RG was really the only Latin American airline ever needing a 747. They opertated 742, 743 and 744's( now with Air New Zealand).

I am sorry, but Avianca was very successful with its fleet of 747's to long haul routes, since it was the first operator of the 747 in Latin America from 1977 til mid 90's..


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BTW, for me, the most beautiful 747 ever..  Smile



I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
User currently offlineLatinplane From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2709 posts, RR: 14
Reply 12, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 11431 times:



Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 11):

I am sorry, but Avianca was very successful with its fleet of 747's to long haul routes, since it was the first operator of the 747 in Latin America from 1977 til mid 90's..

They successfully operated them for about 15 years, but I wouldn't say that they were successfully making money for the airline. For example, Avianca scheduled their 747 with a stop either in Caracas or San Juan P.R. in order to get better loads across the Atlantic as well as to refuel.

Varig was about the only airline that served markets big enough to warrant enough paying passengers & cargo to profit from their use.

 Smile LatinPlane


User currently offlineRleiro From Venezuela, joined Jan 2006, 498 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 11372 times:



Quoting RICARIZA:
I am sorry, but Avianca was very successful with its fleet of 747's to long haul routes, since it was the first operator of the 747 in Latin America from 1977 til mid 90's..

Viasa was the first 747 operator. Initially the crew was mixed (Venezuelan and Dutch), but then was all Venezuelan crew.

The first 747 ever operating in Latin America was PH-BUG, christened as Orinoco after Venezuela's largest river. The airplane was painted half in Viasa and half in KLM old livery.

http://coppermine.luchtzak.be/albums/goodolddays/venezuelaviasa.jpg

Saludos,

Roberto.



A proud SVZM Spotter!
User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5888 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 11362 times:
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Ecuatoriana used DC-10-30 equipement to LAX, MIA and JFK.
Saeta used A-310 equipment to MIA.
Lloyd Aero Boliviano used A-310 equipment to MIA, I believe.
There was a short-lived airline out of Uruguay that flew 747-100's to MIA.
Faucett/Aeroperu used L-1011-1 equipment to MIA.

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 10):
The only airline that had a Pacific route system and high demand routes to fill a 747 was VARIG. Those were days before 777 and A340's, RG was really the only Latin American airline ever needing a 747. They opertated 742, 743 and 744's( now with Air New Zealand).

RG used 743's, 744's and MD-11's to LAX and Asia.
VASP used MD-11 equipment to LAX and Asia.


User currently offlineLatinPlane From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2709 posts, RR: 14
Reply 15, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 11331 times:

Let's not forget that VIASA also leased pure-cargo 747s from various third parties during the late 70s and early 80s. There was much demand for these pure cargo freighters between North America and Venezuela as the country imported many American products thanks to its strong currency exchange that the country held till around the mid-80s or so.








 Smile LatinPlane


User currently offlineLatinPlane From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2709 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 11320 times:

I must say, Avianca's 747s were probably the best looking in South America.

http://img157.echo.cx/img157/6246/bogota0336gp.jpg

http://img157.echo.cx/img157/8176/bogota0916da.jpg

http://img157.echo.cx/img157/2116/bogota0922ba.jpg

http://img157.echo.cx/img157/3263/bogota0947fe.jpg

 Smile LatinPlane


User currently offlineSOUTHAMERICA From Colombia, joined Dec 2003, 2497 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 11302 times:



Quoting Latinplane (Reply 12):
They successfully operated them for about 15 years, but I wouldn't say that they were successfully making money for the airline.

I agree. Fortunately, Avianca put its feet on the ground later on, and found out soon enough that the 767s were a more reasonable choice for the airline's needs.


SA.


User currently offlineRICARIZA From Colombia, joined Apr 2005, 2380 posts, RR: 26
Reply 18, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 11212 times:



Quoting Rleiro (Reply 13):
Viasa was the first 747 operator. Initially the crew was mixed (Venezuelan and Dutch), but then was all Venezuelan crew

That was a wet lease, it doesn't count...!



I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
User currently offlineGabo787 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2006, 154 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 11154 times:

I remember flying from BOG to MIA in one of AV's 747 in the early 80's they did a Stop in BAQ for refuelling and pick up more pax, I'm not sure but it was something about weight restrictions from BOG

User currently offline123 From Bolivia, joined Nov 2003, 745 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 11142 times:

"Torísimo" of 5L @CBB:

Big version: Width: 1280 Height: 1024 File size: 76kb
5L 743 @CBB


User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8247 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 11133 times:
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Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 11):
I am sorry, but Avianca was very successful with its fleet of 747's to long haul routes, since it was the first operator of the 747 in Latin America from 1977 til mid 90's

MY dear Sir,

I am from Barranquilla and know the history of Avianca's 747's very well, I flew on all of them. MY father went to college, he is a gringo: Colombian mom, with Ernesto Mendoza the president of Avianca at the time. Due to Colombia's Northwestern location in South America a 747 was only needed for the European route. Many flights to Miami and JFK were handled well by 72S aircraft. Miami to BOG with a 747 was a lot of airplane year round and JFK to BOG never needed 400 seats daily. AV leased various different 747's over the years, the first one was a ex-Continental 747-100, they also leased an ex -SAS 747 which crashed in MAD in 1988. Avianca purchased a 747-200 Combi in 1979 new from Boeing, given BOG 2200 meter altitude this plane had to stop before Madrid, perhaps a 747-200B all passenger would have made it nonstop.

AV operated what had to be one of the most inefficient 747 operations in the world, BOG- CCS or SDQ-Madrid-CDG-FRA and reverse. All those landings and takeoffs are inefficient, CDG to FRA is only 282 miles. I think Dc-10-30 would have been better as today AV has numerous 767ER's for nonstop routes to Europe. IN 2000 AV operated 4 nonstop routes from BOG by 767 to MAD, CDG, FRA & LHR. The AV of 30 years ago was an airline needing a trophy, a 747.

Varig really needed 747's since everthing was 8 to 12 hours from Rio and Sao Paulo, both in Europe and the USA.


User currently offlineLVISA From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 40 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 11105 times:
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In my opinion, (I'm biased, of course), these were the best looking 747's.

And yes, beauty is in the eye of the beholder...  Big grin


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AR has been using 747's continuosly since the first one arrived on 31 December 1976.


User currently offlineAV757 From Colombia, joined Apr 2004, 660 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 10833 times:
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During low season the 747 was reconfigured as a combi with 260 seats and the rest as cargo.

Also AV operated a full cargo version 747.

AV757


User currently offlineCarls From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 522 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 10833 times:



Quoting Lobster (Reply 5):
They are registered in Bermuda and thus are part of Latin America.

Not even close to Latin America.


25 HapppyLandings : I believe it counts, the thread starter asked who "operated" not who owned... Wet Lease still means operational for that current airline. Even if it
26 Rleiro : The lease of the Orinoco lasted for two years. Viasa never owned a 747 but it had up to 6 747s in different times along the years. Saludos, Roberto.
27 AM744 : I beg to differ. AR has historically put them to good use. EZE-MAD grants the use of a 747 more that any RG route ever did.
28 Jfk777 : AR has a mountain of problems well discussed in this forum. Today AR only flies 744 on the EZE to MAD route, but in the past those 742's stopped in G
29 AM744 : Precisely. If a LatAm airline ever had a solid business case for a 747 it is precisely AR's EZE-MAD. RG´s Japan and Hong Kong routes lost money most
30 Jfk777 : While the case exists for EZE to MAD does it validate the need for AR's fleet to have 747's when it may not be good for EZE to MIA, JFK, CDG, FRA, FC
31 Jigarciar : According to RZJETS information, Avianca operated a total of 6 Boeing 747's: Boeing 747-124 19734 58 HK-2000 "Eldorado": This was the very first B747
32 Post contains links SJOtoLIR : A7 Air Comet mainline is intended to deploy the 380 later in the profitable MAD-EZE and reverse. It depends if Marsans Group would materialize that p
33 Bogota : I personally flew the B747 CLO-BOG, also BOG-MIA and also BOG-JFK. Now regarding the european routes, AV for stopped in every corner on their way to E
34 PU752 : Those AV's 747 were awesome, I remember studying a few years ago for my instrument rating a Spanish book from 1977 and one of the charts to study fro
35 Caryjack : Just curious: why do these freighters have portholes (pluged for sure but holes non-the-less)? Was it eaiser to just leave them in? Thanks, Cary
36 Post contains links LatinPlane : Are you talking about the the plugged window holes? I'm sure everyone has already seen this video, but I can't help placing it here again. It's such
37 AM744 : You are making a good point here. A single route probably doesn't justify a small subfleet.
38 Viscount724 : That was a 747-200C leased from World Airways. It was convertible between passenger and cargo configuration so the windows were needed. Viasa leased
39 Post contains links Caryjack : Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 1): Reply 1, posted Tue Feb 5 2008 16:53:23 your local time (8 months 2 days 1 hour ago) The only 747 model that could hav
40 LAXintl : Since we are talking about 747s in Latin America do you know that both Aero Peru and Ecuatoriana came very close to acquiring their own 747s? Yup, Boe
41 GARUDAROD : Correction, two of the aircraft went to NZ, one went to and is still operated by Garuda Indonesia
42 Post contains images Jmbarros12 : To me, RG's 744 were the best looking... Really like the old livery...
43 LVZXV : Not only that, but the EZE-MAD route is, contrary to populat belief, NOT a cash-cow at all. Loads are usually great, yes, but the yields are very low
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