Birdwatching From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3588 posts, RR: 52 Posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 10225 times:
While there used to be a bunch of 747 operators in Latin America in the 70s - 90s, they seem to be almost gone from the continent now. Lan Chile operated the Jumbo, so did Avianca, Viasa, Varig, Aerolineas, did I miss any?
Aerolineas Argentinas used to have a good fleet, they have about 2 now? Are those the only two 747s based in Latin America at the moment? Who thinks there will be any second hand 744s or even 748s going to Latin America in the future?
Soren
All the things you probably hate about travelling are warm reminders that I'm home
Gabo787 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2006, 134 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 10159 times:
AR has 3 744 (LV-ALJ, LV-AXF, LV-BBU) and 5L have a 743 (CP-2525 "Torisimo") for its flights to MAD
and sadly those are all the 747's that operates for Latin American airlines at the moment
Birdwatching From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3588 posts, RR: 52 Reply 2, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 10055 times:
Add this plane to the list and make it 4. South America yes, but it doesn't count as Latin America though.
LVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 44 Reply 3, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 10027 times:
Quoting Birdwatching (Thread starter): While there used to be a bunch of 747 operators in Latin America in the 70s - 90s, they seem to be almost gone from the continent now. Lan Chile operated the Jumbo, so did Avianca, Viasa, Varig, Aerolineas, did I miss any?
Aerolineas Argentinas used to have a good fleet, they have about 2 now? Are those the only two 747s based in Latin America at the moment? Who thinks there will be any second hand 744s or even 748s going to Latin America in the future?
Southern Winds also operated one (a -200) for 4 months alongside AR in 2005, before the former was brought down by a drugs scandal. During that time, Argentina became the only country in Latin American history to boast TWO 747 operators.
The AR -400s were very nearly kicked-out of the fleet recently, though now it looks like they are to stay for maybe four more years.
Not to discredit LAN and VIASA, but they did not operate 747s beyond a wet-lease as far as I remember--certainly never placed them on their respective local registers. Those that did (and in this order) were the following:
Adicool From Netherlands, joined Apr 2007, 266 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 9949 times:
Quoting Lobster (Reply 5): It's not a true airline, but Worldwide Aircraft Holding Co has a 747-SP (VP-BAT). They are registered in Bermuda and thus are part of Latin America.
Bermunda is a British overseas territory and as not even remotely something to do with Latin America!
Lobster From Germany, joined Oct 2008, 49 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 9776 times:
Quoting Lobster (Reply 5): It's not a true airline, but Worldwide Aircraft Holding Co has a 747-SP (VP-BAT). They are registered in Bermuda and thus are part of Latin America.
Oh my god. Must have been braindead. The tool I used to make the query has Bermuda in the Area of 'Central America' and I just copied it into here translating 'Central America' into 'Latin America'. Shame on me and won't happen again
Jfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 7413 posts, RR: 7 Reply 10, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 9663 times:
The only airline that had a Pacific route system and high demand routes to fill a 747 was VARIG. Those were days before 777 and A340's, RG was really the only Latin American airline ever needing a 747. They opertated 742, 743 and 744's( now with Air New Zealand).
RICARIZA From Colombia, joined Apr 2005, 2356 posts, RR: 29 Reply 11, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 9609 times:
Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 10): The only airline that had a Pacific route system and high demand routes to fill a 747 was VARIG. Those were days before 777 and A340's, RG was really the only Latin American airline ever needing a 747. They opertated 742, 743 and 744's( now with Air New Zealand).
I am sorry, but Avianca was very successful with its fleet of 747's to long haul routes, since it was the first operator of the 747 in Latin America from 1977 til mid 90's..
Latinplane From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2636 posts, RR: 15 Reply 12, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 9566 times:
Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 11):
I am sorry, but Avianca was very successful with its fleet of 747's to long haul routes, since it was the first operator of the 747 in Latin America from 1977 til mid 90's..
They successfully operated them for about 15 years, but I wouldn't say that they were successfully making money for the airline. For example, Avianca scheduled their 747 with a stop either in Caracas or San Juan P.R. in order to get better loads across the Atlantic as well as to refuel.
Varig was about the only airline that served markets big enough to warrant enough paying passengers & cargo to profit from their use.
Rleiro From Venezuela, joined Jan 2006, 491 posts, RR: 7 Reply 13, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 9507 times:
Quoting RICARIZA: I am sorry, but Avianca was very successful with its fleet of 747's to long haul routes, since it was the first operator of the 747 in Latin America from 1977 til mid 90's..
Viasa was the first 747 operator. Initially the crew was mixed (Venezuelan and Dutch), but then was all Venezuelan crew.
The first 747 ever operating in Latin America was PH-BUG, christened as Orinoco after Venezuela's largest river. The airplane was painted half in Viasa and half in KLM old livery.
Wedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5566 posts, RR: 5 Reply 14, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 9497 times:
Ecuatoriana used DC-10-30 equipement to LAX, MIA and JFK.
Saeta used A-310 equipment to MIA.
Lloyd Aero Boliviano used A-310 equipment to MIA, I believe.
There was a short-lived airline out of Uruguay that flew 747-100's to MIA.
Faucett/Aeroperu used L-1011-1 equipment to MIA.
Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 10): The only airline that had a Pacific route system and high demand routes to fill a 747 was VARIG. Those were days before 777 and A340's, RG was really the only Latin American airline ever needing a 747. They opertated 742, 743 and 744's( now with Air New Zealand).
RG used 743's, 744's and MD-11's to LAX and Asia.
VASP used MD-11 equipment to LAX and Asia.
LatinPlane From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2636 posts, RR: 15 Reply 15, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 9466 times:
Let's not forget that VIASA also leased pure-cargo 747s from various third parties during the late 70s and early 80s. There was much demand for these pure cargo freighters between North America and Venezuela as the country imported many American products thanks to its strong currency exchange that the country held till around the mid-80s or so.
LatinPlane From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2636 posts, RR: 15 Reply 16, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 9455 times:
I must say, Avianca's 747s were probably the best looking in South America.
SOUTHAMERICA From Colombia, joined Dec 2003, 2496 posts, RR: 14 Reply 17, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 9437 times:
Quoting Latinplane (Reply 12): They successfully operated them for about 15 years, but I wouldn't say that they were successfully making money for the airline.
I agree. Fortunately, Avianca put its feet on the ground later on, and found out soon enough that the 767s were a more reasonable choice for the airline's needs.
Gabo787 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2006, 134 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 9289 times:
I remember flying from BOG to MIA in one of AV's 747 in the early 80's they did a Stop in BAQ for refuelling and pick up more pax, I'm not sure but it was something about weight restrictions from BOG
Jfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 7413 posts, RR: 7 Reply 21, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 9268 times:
Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 11): I am sorry, but Avianca was very successful with its fleet of 747's to long haul routes, since it was the first operator of the 747 in Latin America from 1977 til mid 90's
MY dear Sir,
I am from Barranquilla and know the history of Avianca's 747's very well, I flew on all of them. MY father went to college, he is a gringo: Colombian mom, with Ernesto Mendoza the president of Avianca at the time. Due to Colombia's Northwestern location in South America a 747 was only needed for the European route. Many flights to Miami and JFK were handled well by 72S aircraft. Miami to BOG with a 747 was a lot of airplane year round and JFK to BOG never needed 400 seats daily. AV leased various different 747's over the years, the first one was a ex-Continental 747-100, they also leased an ex -SAS 747 which crashed in MAD in 1988. Avianca purchased a 747-200 Combi in 1979 new from Boeing, given BOG 2200 meter altitude this plane had to stop before Madrid, perhaps a 747-200B all passenger would have made it nonstop.
AV operated what had to be one of the most inefficient 747 operations in the world, BOG- CCS or SDQ-Madrid-CDG-FRA and reverse. All those landings and takeoffs are inefficient, CDG to FRA is only 282 miles. I think Dc-10-30 would have been better as today AV has numerous 767ER's for nonstop routes to Europe. IN 2000 AV operated 4 nonstop routes from BOG by 767 to MAD, CDG, FRA & LHR. The AV of 30 years ago was an airline needing a trophy, a 747.
Varig really needed 747's since everthing was 8 to 12 hours from Rio and Sao Paulo, both in Europe and the USA.
LVISA From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 40 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 9240 times:
In my opinion, (I'm biased, of course), these were the best looking 747's.
Carls From Germany, joined Aug 2007, 518 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 8968 times:
Quoting Lobster (Reply 5): They are registered in Bermuda and thus are part of Latin America.
Not even close to Latin America.
There is no better way to fly than Lufthansa!
25 HapppyLandings: I believe it counts, the thread starter asked who "operated" not who owned... Wet Lease still means operational for that current airline. Even if it
26 Rleiro: The lease of the Orinoco lasted for two years. Viasa never owned a 747 but it had up to 6 747s in different times along the years. Saludos, Roberto.
27 AM744: I beg to differ. AR has historically put them to good use. EZE-MAD grants the use of a 747 more that any RG route ever did.
28 Jfk777: AR has a mountain of problems well discussed in this forum. Today AR only flies 744 on the EZE to MAD route, but in the past those 742's stopped in G
29 AM744: Precisely. If a LatAm airline ever had a solid business case for a 747 it is precisely AR's EZE-MAD. RG´s Japan and Hong Kong routes lost money most
30 Jfk777: While the case exists for EZE to MAD does it validate the need for AR's fleet to have 747's when it may not be good for EZE to MIA, JFK, CDG, FRA, FC
31 Jigarciar: According to RZJETS information, Avianca operated a total of 6 Boeing 747's: Boeing 747-124 19734 58 HK-2000 "Eldorado": This was the very first B747
32 SJOtoLIR: A7 Air Comet mainline is intended to deploy the 380 later in the profitable MAD-EZE and reverse. It depends if Marsans Group would materialize that p
33 Bogota: I personally flew the B747 CLO-BOG, also BOG-MIA and also BOG-JFK. Now regarding the european routes, AV for stopped in every corner on their way to E
34 PU752: Those AV's 747 were awesome, I remember studying a few years ago for my instrument rating a Spanish book from 1977 and one of the charts to study fro
35 Caryjack: Just curious: why do these freighters have portholes (pluged for sure but holes non-the-less)? Was it eaiser to just leave them in? Thanks, Cary
36 LatinPlane: Are you talking about the the plugged window holes? I'm sure everyone has already seen this video, but I can't help placing it here again. It's such
37 AM744: You are making a good point here. A single route probably doesn't justify a small subfleet.
38 Viscount724: That was a 747-200C leased from World Airways. It was convertible between passenger and cargo configuration so the windows were needed. Viasa leased
39 Caryjack: Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 1): Reply 1, posted Tue Feb 5 2008 16:53:23 your local time (8 months 2 days 1 hour ago) The only 747 model that could hav
40 LAXintl: Since we are talking about 747s in Latin America do you know that both Aero Peru and Ecuatoriana came very close to acquiring their own 747s? Yup, Boe
41 GARUDAROD: Correction, two of the aircraft went to NZ, one went to and is still operated by Garuda Indonesia
42 Jmbarros12: To me, RG's 744 were the best looking... Really like the old livery...
43 LVZXV: Not only that, but the EZE-MAD route is, contrary to populat belief, NOT a cash-cow at all. Loads are usually great, yes, but the yields are very low
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