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Thai Winter Schedule: ATH Switched To A340-600  
User currently offlineOlympicATH From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2001, 312 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks ago) and read 5848 times:

Hello everybody

I just noticed that Thai's 3 weekly flights to Athens will be switched from a 773 to a 346 for the winter schedule. Until now, Thai flights to ATH were on the 773, 3 weekly in the winter and 4 in the summer.
I don't really know if this can be considered an upgrade or a downgrade. While the 346 will offer 100 fewer seats per flight, it has considerably more premium seats:
777-300: 49C+339Y (total 388) or 34C+330Y (total 364)
A340-600: 8F+60C+199Y (total 267)

I never thought ATH was a premium destination, I always thought yields were actually low. Is this due to a shortage of 777s? Does anyone have an idea?
Maybe this move is a reaction to EK's second daily flight to ATH starting in February 09 (daily 773 and daily330)...

21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineSASDC8 From Norway, joined Mar 2006, 772 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5700 times:
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IMHO an uppgrade of equipment  Smile

Quoting OlympicATH (Thread starter):
I never thought ATH was a premium destination

Totally agree with you, ATH is not a premium destination and I actually thought TG would cut it alltogheter.. Back in my nonrew days the ATH-BKK-ATH was always wide open and the "safest" way og getting to/from Thailand from Europe  Smile

Cheers
Stein



2-3-2 is NOT a premium configuration
User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4852 posts, RR: 44
Reply 2, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5700 times:

Could TG's B 773As fly with a full payload nonstop BKK-ATH or was it restricted?

Yes you're right BKK-ATH doesnt seem to warrant such a large number of J and F class seats being available for sale on board. This route fits the profile for TG's two class configured B 772ERs and not the 3 class A 346!


User currently offlineLufthansa747 From Philippines, joined May 1999, 3201 posts, RR: 33
Reply 3, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5435 times:

Yet further proof TG has no clue what they're doing.

Send a 30J B777-200ER to ATH, that will do just fine.



Air Asia Super Elite, Cebu Pacific Titanium
User currently offline6thfreedom From Bermuda, joined Sep 2004, 3339 posts, RR: 20
Reply 4, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5398 times:



Quoting Lufthansa747 (Reply 3):
Yet further proof TG has no clue what they're doing.

Send a 30J B777-200ER to ATH, that will do just fine.

Couldn't agree more...

then again i don't think TG has that sort of demoand for premium on ANY sector.

I'd suggest leave drop the 68 premium in the A346 to 30 or 40, and gain another .... 80 economy?

I think VS has 308 total in there's with a 3 class product, so TG could perhaps go 30 J and 280 Y. Much better offering, and could use the aircraft to ATH, MEL, SYD, BNE, AKL and a raft of other sectors.


User currently offlineBA319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8596 posts, RR: 54
Reply 5, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 5201 times:
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Quoting OlympicATH (Thread starter):
I don't really know if this can be considered an upgrade or a downgrade

- I'd call it an upgrade  Smile

Quoting Lufthansa747 (Reply 3):
Yet further proof TG has no clue what they're doing.

Send a 30J B777-200ER to ATH, that will do just fine.

- Agreed! Far too many premium seats for this market!



111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
User currently onlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4997 posts, RR: 41
Reply 6, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 5192 times:
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Quoting OlympicATH (Thread starter):
I don't really know if this can be considered an upgrade or a downgrade. While the 346 will offer 100 fewer seats per flight, it has considerably more premium seats:
777-300: 49C+339Y (total 388) or 34C+330Y (total 364)
A340-600: 8F+60C+199Y (total 267)

Given the very spacious layout of the seating plan on the A340-600, as a passenger it is always going to be an upgrade. Passenger comfort is usually rated higher on the A340-600 due to its very quit cabin. Whether or not TG can fill all these premium seats remains to bee seen. That is a different matter but for them I hope they can.

Kind regards


User currently offlineLufthansa747 From Philippines, joined May 1999, 3201 posts, RR: 33
Reply 7, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5018 times:



Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 4):
then again i don't think TG has that sort of demoand for premium on ANY sector.

FRA and LHR perhaps, but then again they don't seem to be ready to drop the additional 126 Y seats the 744 offers. 744 in new config offers too few (40) C seats for both markets, at least FRA is always full.

Then again, they have pretty much all their configurations wrong if you ask me.

772 - reconfigured from awful 2-4-2 C to 2-2-2 lie flats, but the aircraft flies regional routes only. 2-3-2 lie-flat would have been way ahead of regional competition.

773 - reconfigured to 2-3-2 lie flats instead of 2-2-2 despite flying on longer hauls than the 772. However, probably the right number of C seats on this aircraft.

772ER - TG copied SQ configuration - 30C in 2-2-2. SQ 9V-SV* aircraft fly on long, thin routes. TG decided to stick most of these to SYD/MEL, at the same time dropping F. A capacity reduction from up to F14 C64 on 7441/743 that used to often fly on these routes to C30 on the 772ER.

345 - drop the generous pitch in Y and reduce C to maybe 42 from 60. I could then see it working for BKK-MXP, maybe BKK-MAD etc. But my bet is they will drag on with the absurd premium configuration TG has no demand for.

TG's capacity downgrades have also caused a dramatic price hike on C on many markets - Australia and Germany. No longer the great deal it used to be. But quality doesn't match SQ etc. Not a good proposition.



Air Asia Super Elite, Cebu Pacific Titanium
User currently offlineCyba From Cape Verde, joined Nov 2005, 209 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4768 times:

TG's fares continue to remain much higher than any of the middle easter carriers. If their loads were as poor as the consensus seems to be then wouldn't we see yields dropping. Either TG are onto something good or they haven't a clue what they're doing.

Just some indicative fares for some dates in february all in business:

ATH-KUL:
TG: €4775
SQ: €4694
EK and QR: €2476

ATH-MNL and CGK
TG: €5871
SQ: €5682
EK: €2444

ATH-SYD
TG: €8147
SQ: €8017
EK: €3850

By the way, i've never seen bargains on TG (or SQ) ex ATH unless i'm missing a trick.


User currently offlineJerseyFlyer From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 677 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4671 times:

Have TG received their 6th A346 yet?

User currently offlineLufthansa747 From Philippines, joined May 1999, 3201 posts, RR: 33
Reply 10, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4587 times:



Quoting Cyba (Reply 8):
By the way, i've never seen bargains on TG (or SQ) ex ATH unless i'm missing a trick.

TG tends to sell their discount fares via old style travel agents in the country of departure. Hence they won't ever show up on their website or sites like expedia.com.

Not sure what the case is with ATH, but the above holds true in many TG markets. Somewhere they have woken up though, ex-BKK for example the website tends to give actual lower fares. But still, they have many promos only bookable at their offices or travel agents.



Air Asia Super Elite, Cebu Pacific Titanium
User currently offlineRonerone From Jordan, joined Aug 2004, 1675 posts, RR: 53
Reply 11, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4556 times:



Quoting Lufthansa747 (Reply 3):
Yet further proof TG has no clue what they're doing.

Very true.

They were quick to buy the A345's, and in no time, it was obvious they had no clue what they were doing with them!


Regards,
Roni



A Stop Away From One-Stop, Is Non-Stop : Airbus A340-500
User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5361 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4044 times:

Very surprised or not surprised mayb e is better that TG will use the 346 to ATH, they had them going to DME and AKL for a while but made the right decision to switch to 772ERs on these routes. The problem is that as others say TG don't really have any markets that need a 346 configuration as it is now so they are looking for places to send them.

I think they should halve the number of J seats to 30 and increase Y to say 255 making them 8F 30J 255Y then they would be ok for routes like AKL, but ATH really I can't imagine have any F demand at all.

If I were TG I even look to reconfigure the 345s to a similar configuration but less Y obviously with the 345 being shorter than the 346.

ZRH is the only long haul route that is daily on 346s now the only others are 4 weekly to MXP 3 weekly to JNB and now ATH the rest of the time they fly around Asia which is ok between long hauls but they seem to be doing a fair bit of Asia flying now.

On the other hand maybe their 744s could do with an extra 2 rows of J on the busy FRA, LHR, CDG routes even though that would mean removing probably 4 rows of Y. But 10F 54J 285Y might be ok.


User currently offlineDennys From France, joined May 2001, 903 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3760 times:

Would you know some presise "first draft " of the TG A346s and TG A345s to European destinations ?

Many Thanks

dennys


User currently offlineLufthansa747 From Philippines, joined May 1999, 3201 posts, RR: 33
Reply 14, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3746 times:



Quoting Dennys (Reply 13):
TG A345s to European destinations ?

IMHO they first need to be reconfigured unless TG wants to simply lose heaps more money with them.

Get rid of a third of C class, and reconfigure Y class with standard 32-33 pitch like on the 346.



Air Asia Super Elite, Cebu Pacific Titanium
User currently offlineOlympicATH From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2001, 312 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3442 times:

Just checked and apparently Thai switched ATH back to 777-200/300. It really makes much more sense...

I don't know if it's possible somehow to change the thread starter...


User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5361 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3175 times:



Quoting OlympicATH (Reply 15):
Just checked and apparently Thai switched ATH back to 777-200/300. It really makes much more sense...

Yes!

The 346 however is now loaded to DME which also should be a 772 IMO, though it was a 346 when it first started a couple of years back.

This is due to the LAX-BKK non stop flights being reinstated they now have extra 772 capacity.


User currently offline6thfreedom From Bermuda, joined Sep 2004, 3339 posts, RR: 20
Reply 17, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3091 times:



Quoting OlympicATH (Reply 15):
Just checked and apparently Thai switched ATH back to 777-200/300. It really makes much more sense...

Hardly surprising...

my bet is that they put on the A346, then the flights over the priod became significantly over-booked in Y, hence the change back to the B777.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's put back to 346 in Feb-April period.


User currently offlineThaiA345 From Indonesia, joined Oct 2006, 888 posts, RR: 16
Reply 18, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3000 times:



Quoting SASDC8 (Reply 1):
IMHO an uppgrade of equipment

To me who flies all the time with TG, I will also agree with Stein in that the A346 is their flagship, why i say so is purely due to the fact that the reconfigured B744 still do not have PTV in Y whereas the A346 have it in all classes. I love flying the A436, in fact just to fly it one more time, i am flying out of ZRH in November so that I can get the A346.

Quoting Ronerone (Reply 11):
They were quick to buy the A345's, and in no time, it was obvious they had no clue what they were doing with them!

Basically the best business case is for them to reconfigure the A345, reduce the J seats by maybe 25%-30%, get rid of premium, fill up more Y and change the pitch to maybe 33"-34" and viola, that will have an aircraft with good seat numbers to do medium-long haul runs.....mainly places like Perth and even Moscow....

Anyone knows how many B773 has been reconfigured yet? I thought it was only 1 aircraft for the time being right? They sure are taking ages to convert these B773, they ere pretty quick with the B772A's


User currently offlineOa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27346 posts, RR: 60
Reply 19, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2960 times:



Quoting Lufthansa747 (Reply 10):
TG tends to sell their discount fares via old style travel agents in the country of departure. Hence they won't ever show up on their website or sites like expedia.com.

Very true. It always surprises me how many large groups they pick up in the Greek market. They are always having saver fares to the Far East and Australia also.


User currently offlineSATX From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2840 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2908 times:

So long as TG reserve their lower fares for the ancient travel agent system they will never see me flying them. I don't have the time or the desire to visit anybody in person for something as basic as buying airfare.


Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
User currently offlineOa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27346 posts, RR: 60
Reply 21, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2899 times:



Quoting SATX (Reply 20):
So long as TG reserve their lower fares for the ancient travel agent system they will never see me flying them. I don't have the time or the desire to visit anybody in person for something as basic as buying airfare.

So I guess you have never heard of an online consolidator then??


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