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MEA To Launch Moscow, Khartoum, Madrid, And Iraq  
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11154 posts, RR: 59
Posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 6462 times:

According to an interview of MEA's Chairman, Mohamad El-Hout, with Radio Lebanon, Middle East Airlines (MEA), the national carrier of Lebanon, is planning to launch services to Moscow, Khartoum, and Madrid in the near future.

The decision has also been taken to resume flights to Baghdad which have been suspended since the Gulf War, but they are waiting for insurance costs to go down as well as for the country to become more stable. After they start Baghdad, they will look at launching services to Arbil, the capital of the Kurdish region of Iraq.

MEA is currently in the midst of a fleet expansion program to increase its fleet size from 9 (6 A321-200s and 3 A330-200s) to 16 (6 A320-200s, 6 A321-200s, and 4 A330-200s) aircraft.

It received its first aircraft as part of a 10 aircraft Airbus order (6 A320-200s and 4 A330-200) in June, an A330-200, increasing its fleet from 9 to 10 aircraft (6 A321-200s and 4 A330-200s). This new A330 is the first to be painted in MEA's new modified livery.

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MEA will take delivery of its 2nd aircraft, an A320-200, next January and will receive two aircraft in February, two in March, and one in May with the remaining three being delivered in 2010.

MEA's three original ILFC-leased A330-200s will be returned next year coinciding with the delivery of the remaining three new A330-200s. These leased A330s will then be going on to Gulf Air.

There are reports that MEA has exercised an option for an additional A330, but neither Airbus nor MEA have confirmed it yet.

MEA's fleet expansion will be primarily geared towards increasing frequencies on existing destinations. They plan to increase Frankfurt from 4x weekly to daily and Riyadh, Jeddah, Cairo, and Dubai from daily to 2x daily.

MEA currently serves 26 destinations in the Middle East, Africa, and Europe from its Beirut hub.

MEA also has decided to postpone plans to sell 25% of its shares on the Beirut Stock Exchange (BSE) due to the global financial crisis. 99.37% of MEA's shares are presently owned by Banque du Liban, Lebanon's central bank.

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"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAF022 From France, joined Dec 2003, 2175 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 6393 times:



Quoting BA (Thread starter):
MEA also has decided to postpone plans to sell 25% of its shares on the Beirut Stock Exchange (BSE) due to the global financial crisis

How many times has this been delayed? It seems to forever be delayed.


User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11154 posts, RR: 59
Reply 2, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 6254 times:



Quoting AF022 (Reply 1):
How many times has this been delayed? It seems to forever be delayed.

Yes, it's been postponed a number of times, previously due to instability in Lebanon, but this time due to the global financial crisis.

Here's an article about MEA and the global financial crisis:
http://www.naharnet.com/domino/tn/Ne...441BEC22574CD00186631?OpenDocument



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11154 posts, RR: 59
Reply 3, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 5989 times:

I should mention that MEA is planning to construct an advanced pilot training center which will receive pilots from around the region.

The Chairman first floated the proposal back in August requesting approval and financial support from the government. MEA will provide $30 million towards its development.

Here is an article from when it was first proposed:
http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article....n_id=1&categ_id=3&article_id=94808

As of last week, it has received widespread support and the plan will be presented to the cabinet later this month. Once approved, officials will travel to France and Canada to discuss with suppliers of flight simulator systems.

If all goes as planned, the training center should be up and running in a few years.



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineBrightCedars From Belgium, joined Nov 2004, 1290 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5559 times:

I understand Moscow as it may be an important good yielding business and leisure link, I can try to understand Khartoum as they must have seen some numbers from BA and BD plying the route probably with some success, I definitely understand Iraq but how come they can't already make Erbil or somewhere else work (doesn't OS do that already) before gaining safe access to Baghdad? And I don't understand MAD where ME will have very little O&D and very little through traffic as Skyteam is very weak at MAD, and no ethnic or little leisure travel (the Spaniards don't need the nice weather of Lebanon and vice-versa). If IB couldn't make it work and doesn't seem in a rush to restart it, what can ME do there? I would have hoped for something in the low-countries, of course I would vote for BRU, but I would recon that AMS would make good business sense given KL's strong Skyteam hub there. A red-eye BEY-AMS-BEY timed like the one doing BEY-CDG-BEY at 2 am would certainly be a successful option, especially in cooperation with KL. It would also provide additional connection opportunities within Skyteam to Scandinavia and to the British Isles.


I want the European Union flag on airliners.net!
User currently offlineEL-AL From Israel, joined Oct 2001, 1361 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5497 times:

What is the load factor on MEA flights these days?


"In Israel, on order to be a realist, one's must believe in miracles" - David Ben Gurion.
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11154 posts, RR: 59
Reply 6, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 5389 times:



Quoting EL-AL (Reply 5):
What is the load factor on MEA flights these days?

It fluctuates a lot because of the nature of the Lebanese market. During the summer, load factors are very high as well as during holiday seasons.

Because of the 18-month political crisis that ended in May however, load factors went below normal levels, to around 60-65%.

However, it's significantly rebounded since then. Here's some news from a recent article:

"During the months of July and August 2008 all seats on the company's planes were reserved…that's why we always focus on stability in Lebanon which serves everyone and reflects positively" on the country's economy, Hout said.

http://www.naharnet.com/domino/tn/Ne...441BEC22574CD00186631?OpenDocument



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineGlobalflyer From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 953 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 5181 times:

Is MEA still slated to become an associate member of Skyteam? If so, when?


Landing on every Continent almost on an annual basis!
User currently offlineAirGabon From Switzerland, joined Dec 2003, 892 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 5137 times:

To which Moscow' airport will they fly? DME? VKO? SVO?

And which aircraft? 320s or 332?


User currently offlineNaritaflyer From Japan, joined Apr 2006, 549 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5082 times:

I really like the MEA livery.

User currently offlineUPPERDECKFAN From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 992 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5064 times:



Quoting BrightCedars (Reply 4):
And I don't understand MAD where ME will have very little O&D and very little through traffic as Skyteam is very weak at MAD, and no ethnic or little leisure travel (the Spaniards don't need the nice weather of Lebanon and vice-versa).

It might be better staions than MAD for ME, however IMO MAD could be profitable, it can get feed from the large Lebanese communities in LatAm from IB as an alternative to AF (keep in mind ME is not a SKY member yet). It will get O&D as well, weather is not an issue as spaniards are frequent leisure travellers to sunny destinations (caribean, canaries, tunisia, turkey, etc) and places such as Lebanon can be very competitive pricewise since there is no euro.

Why IB or it's LC affiliate XG are not back at BEY is quite surprising.

IMO, filling 3 or 4xweek A320 on MAD-BEY should not be a difficult task



744,742,741,772,773,762,732,735,738,752,727,717,DC10,DC9,M82,M87,319,320,321,343,346,L1011,CRJ2,CRJ9,E190,ATR42,DSH8,
User currently offlineWesternA318 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 5727 posts, RR: 24
Reply 11, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5050 times:

This is all beautiful news, I hope for the best for MEA, they certainly are a class airline and deserve all the best. Just out of curiosity, any idea how many dailies, if any at all, to ATH?


Check out my blog at fl310travel.blogspot.com!
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11154 posts, RR: 59
Reply 12, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5018 times:



Quoting Globalflyer (Reply 7):
Is MEA still slated to become an associate member of Skyteam? If so, when?

As far as I know, yes. SkyTeam is one of the reasons for the fleet expansion. I'm hoping it will happen next year.

Quoting AirGabon (Reply 8):
To which Moscow' airport will they fly? DME? VKO? SVO?

And which aircraft? 320s or 332?

Not sure which airport, no details have been announced yet. I presume they will aim for DME.

It will definitely be either an A320 or A321. A330 is very unlikely and is kept on high volume routes like LHR, CDG, JED, RUH, DXB, and the West African routes.

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 11):
Just out of curiosity, any idea how many dailies, if any at all, to ATH?

3x weekly (Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday) on A321s.



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineSoups From Ghana, joined Jun 2004, 3438 posts, RR: 14
Reply 13, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5009 times:

is their ATH route prifitable?
flew on ME BEY-ATH when my BA BEY-LHR got cancelled. flight had load of 80% but majority of passengers are of the cancelled BA flight



Next destinations, Suarabaya, beirut, paris, Accra
User currently offlineBrightCedars From Belgium, joined Nov 2004, 1290 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4938 times:



Quoting BA (Reply 12):
3x weekly (Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday) on A321s.

Hence why I don't understand the A320s instead of A319s unless some regional jets may be in the cards. ATH and IST daily would certainly be big plusses. LCA double daily would also certainly be rather beneficial. Heck, just 1 such small jet would allow doing LCA twice a day and ATH plus IST daily. Guess they could also be used to CAI for same convenience, and AMM, maybe DAM and ALP would be good as well. Even some thiner European routes could support the service e.g. VIE. ALY and ESB may also be options.



I want the European Union flag on airliners.net!
User currently offlineRamzi From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 535 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4905 times:



Quoting BrightCedars (Reply 4):
And I don't understand MAD

I believe if ever, this route will be operated in the summer season and on occasional basis, such as BEY-NCE. In the summer, there is a factor worthy of the route since in fact many Lebanese vacation in Spain. As a year-round scheduled route it would be a gigantic loss, but as an occasional summer flight it should do great, and that is what I believe it will be.

Quoting BrightCedars (Reply 4):
AMS would make good business

Definitely. Its very odd that AMS is not served by ME, but my thoughts say it must have to do with AF. The Air France - KLM group pulled the route served by KLM to gain monopoly for AF, putting everyone through their CDG hub. Similarly, it would be my belief they don't want MEA taking over that hub, otherwise they woudl have just kept their very own nice little KLM plane flying it. And obviously AF is capable of putting such pressures on MEA. After all AF are giving MEA some, but the key is to never give them enough to gain the potential to outgrow you, AF is certainly well aware of that or they would not be operating at the scale they are today.

Quoting BA (Reply 6):
During the summer, load factors are very high as well as during holiday seasons.

I believe they near 100% in June through early September, as well as both Muslim "Feasts" and Christmas and Easter. Throughout the rest of the year factors aren't too high, but certainly aren't that low either since MEA cleverly restructures its network according to the market demand with respect to the season.

Quoting BA (Reply 12):
As far as I know, yes. SkyTeam is one of the reasons for the fleet expansion. I'm hoping it will happen next year.

Its been promised for a while. I don't see it before two years from now, but certainly its far closer than it was, especially with the orders and the new livery.

Quoting BrightCedars (Reply 14):
I don't understand the A320s instead of A319s

The initial order was in fact for A319s, 4 iirc. They converted to A320s because much closer slots were available, and MEA is in need of the aircraft, rather urgently. But also if you think about it, the A320 does have its advantages. Having aircraft that are too small in a high season will not let them gain too much, however having one slightly larger will make it no issue adding frequencies, and simultaneously ensure the needed seats per flight during higher load factor seasons. Anyhow, if all goes the way MEA is planning it, and profits rise with the new aircraft as they must, we will probably see the A330 option exercised as well as some new A319 orders for frequenting certain routes and opening other low yield ones.



There will come a time when you believe everything is finished - that will be the beginning.
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11154 posts, RR: 59
Reply 16, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4882 times:



Quoting Soups (Reply 13):
is their ATH route prifitable?

Don't know about specific route profitability, but ATH survived the massive 1997/1998 cuts and is still going, so I assume it is profitable.

Quoting BrightCedars (Reply 14):
Hence why I don't understand the A320s instead of A319s unless some regional jets may be in the cards.

The order was initially for A319s, but due to a massive A319 order by easyJet, MEA could not get the delivery time slots it wanted, so it converted the order to A320s.

The A320 is assembled in Toulouse while the A318/A319/A321 are assembled in Hamburg.

I think the Embraer E-Jets would be a great fit for MEA for the specific frequency increases you are talking about. I guess we'll just have to wait and see...

Quoting BrightCedars (Reply 14):
ATH and IST daily would certainly be big plusses. LCA double daily would also certainly be rather beneficial. Heck, just 1 such small jet would allow doing LCA twice a day and ATH plus IST daily. Guess they could also be used to CAI for same convenience, and AMM, maybe DAM and ALP would be good as well. Even some thiner European routes could support the service e.g. VIE. ALY and ESB may also be options.

The primary purpose of the fleet expansion is to increase frequencies. What I've read so far is that RUH, JED, CAI, and DXB will all go to double daily while FRA will go to daily from its current 4x weekly service.

I expect there will be other minor frequency increases as well.

GVA for example is increasing from 3x weekly to 4x weekly on a year-round basis starting with the winter schedule. Previously, it operated 4x weekly only in the summer season.

Quoting Ramzi (Reply 15):
Similarly, it would be my belief they don't want MEA taking over that hub, otherwise they woudl have just kept their very own nice little KLM plane flying it. And obviously AF is capable of putting such pressures on MEA. After all AF are giving MEA some, but the key is to never give them enough to gain the potential to outgrow you, AF is certainly well aware of that or they would not be operating at the scale they are today.

I think you are greatly overestimating the AF-ME relationship. What you describe would be possible if AF had a controlling share of ME which they do not (they own no shares of MEA).

AF and ME can coordinate their services (which they do on the CDG flights), but they cannot dictate to each other what routes to fly. They are independent airlines and may each do as they please. The coordination is entirely voluntary and either side may choose to terminate the coordination at anytime.

While it is possible that AF might not be fond of MEA operating flights to AMS, they can't force them not to.

Personally, I don't think AF would care if MEA started service to AMS or not. If they did start it, I predict it would be something like a 3x weekly A320/A321 service. That hardly constitutes a threat to the hub.

AF-KL have bigger fish to focus on.

Keep in mind that KL stopped BEY along with DAM and AMM. It wasn't just BEY.

Quoting Ramzi (Reply 15):
Its been promised for a while. I don't see it before two years from now, but certainly its far closer than it was, especially with the orders and the new livery.

I wouldn't be surprised if MEA becomes a SkyTeam associate member next summer when they will have 13 aircraft (14 if the 5th A330 is confirmed) and will have already implemented a lot of the frequency increases, but I guess we'll just have to wait and see. If not, then it should definitely happen by 2010 unless plans change...



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineRamzi From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 535 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 4707 times:



Quoting BA (Reply 16):
they own no shares of MEA



Quoting BA (Reply 16):
they cannot dictate to each other what routes to fly



Quoting BA (Reply 16):
While it is possible that AF might not be fond of MEA operating flights to AMS, they can't force them not to.

I am well aware of that, i just stated that in my opinion, it might be possible that AF are either applying some pressure or kindly asking MEA not to fly the route. It is true that they have bigger fish to focus on, but its entirely possible there are issues we are not aware of, or things are seen differently by AF. It is equally possible that for whatever reason MEA simply don't want to fly to AMS.

Quoting BA (Reply 16):
Keep in mind that KL stopped BEY along with DAM and AMM. It wasn't just BEY.

True, I also know that. I was just throwing out a possibility, because frankly i find it odd that ME are adding these new destinations and upgrading FRA to daily without considering AMS. However the possibilities are vast.

Quoting BA (Reply 16):
then it should definitely happen by 2010 unless plans change...

Personally I expect it to happen in summer 2010. The summer of 2009 will reveal MEAs capability of efficiently using their expanded fleet while preserving quality, and the membership will take place with the confirmation in summer 2010. (I speak of summers because they are the peaks of operation for MEA).



There will come a time when you believe everything is finished - that will be the beginning.
User currently offlineOD720 From Lebanon, joined Feb 2003, 1925 posts, RR: 32
Reply 18, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4648 times:

The A319 is cheaper to buy than the A320 and gives better economics on thin routes. The plan was to get the A319s for these reasons but unfortunately the Airbus order book didn't fit MEA's plans.

As for AMS, current MEA strategy is based on more frequencies rather than expansion, specially regarding Western Europe. We all know that AMS and BRU (and other destination) will be quite convenient for many travellers but it just depends if they will generate profits.
Any route that is profitable, can be added to the network.


User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11154 posts, RR: 59
Reply 19, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4513 times:



Quoting Ramzi (Reply 17):
True, I also know that. I was just throwing out a possibility, because frankly i find it odd that ME are adding these new destinations and upgrading FRA to daily without considering AMS. However the possibilities are vast.

FRA going to daily makes sense because of the interline connectivity (on LH and others). FRA together with LHR and CDG make up the top three European hubs.

I do agree with you though that AMS is a destination that MEA should consider, both because of its market size as a destination and because of the great connectivity options as well.

I also think ZRH is a market of strong potential for MEA. Their GVA flight is doing very well. Switzerland has always traditionally been a strong market from the Arab world.

Quoting OD720 (Reply 18):
The A319 is cheaper to buy than the A320 and gives better economics on thin routes. The plan was to get the A319s for these reasons but unfortunately the Airbus order book didn't fit MEA's plans.

It's too bad indeed. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing MEA operating A319s, A320s, and A321s. Perhaps the two remaining options can be exercised as A319s.

Quoting OD720 (Reply 18):
As for AMS, current MEA strategy is based on more frequencies rather than expansion, specially regarding Western Europe.

I think it is a smart strategy, especially for the purpose of increasing connectivity options which will make MEA more marketable to SkyTeam.



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11154 posts, RR: 59
Reply 20, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4252 times:

According to the latest A330/A340 production list on Airlinerlist.com (generally reliable), MEA's A330 order still stands at 4. Turns out what appeared to be a 5th A330 was simply a production line slot swap, although it took a couple of months for this to be reflected.

MEA's last A330 will be MSN 998 instead of MSN 996 as originally planned.

What is puzzling me however is it states the USAF will take up MSN 996, but the contract for the USAF A330-based tanker (called the KC-45A) is currently suspended? Anyway, that's another topic.

MEA still has two Airbus options for 2011 deliveries.



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineMEA330 From Lebanon, joined Aug 2002, 288 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4215 times:

BA


Told you ......  Smile


User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11154 posts, RR: 59
Reply 22, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 4115 times:



Quoting MEA330 (Reply 21):
BA


Told you ...... Smile

Yes you did.  Smile

I'll buy you some knafeh, how does that sound?  Smile



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineMilesDependent From Australia, joined Sep 2001, 862 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 4038 times:



Quoting AirGabon (Reply 8):
To which Moscow' airport will they fly? DME? VKO? SVO?



Quoting BA (Reply 12):
Not sure which airport, no details have been announced yet. I presume they will aim for DME.

Hmmm... based on MEA's ambition to enter Sky Team I think SVO would be much more likely. Most (all?) of the Sky Team airlines are based at SVO.


User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11154 posts, RR: 59
Reply 24, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3892 times:



Quoting MilesDependent (Reply 23):
Hmmm... based on MEA's ambition to enter Sky Team I think SVO would be much more likely. Most (all?) of the Sky Team airlines are based at SVO.

That's a valid point.

It's too bad though as I hear SVO has a lot of problems and that DME is far more convenient from a passenger perspective despite being a little bit farther from the city center than SVO.



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
25 United787 : Congrats to MEA! I hope they continue to grow and can be symbol of Lebanese stability...
26 Post contains links BA : I just ran across this slide show showing numerous pictures of the interior of MEA's first new A330-200 which it took delivery in June. http://www.mea
27 AF022 : Re: video I've never understood MEA's fixation with the color blue. When I think of Lebanon, blue doesn't come into the picture at all.
28 Ramzi : There was a thread a few months ago about MEA's new livery before it was released on the current A330 (F-ORMA). Basically, blue symbolizes the sea in
29 Post contains images BA : Blue is generally a popular airline upholstery color. How can you forget the 225 km of Mediterranean coastline?
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