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New Tatl Routes For The New Delta?  
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9335 posts, RR: 14
Posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 13342 times:

With all the talk about Asia with the new Delta what TATL flights do you guys(and girls) think we will see.
I think they will try to find two-three more LHR slots and make ATL 2x daily,JFK 3x daily and DTW 2x daily. Also DTW/MSP-FCO. Maybe some 757s out of DTW. DTW-DUB,SNN,MAN.

What do you think?


yep.
154 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17064 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 13347 times:

Here I hope for more routes from ARN. I know they have ATL-ARN-ATL, but another route would be nice.


Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8337 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 13133 times:
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I hope Delta sees the LHR light and at laest puts all flights to LHR with A330's. 767's from JFK to LHR against BA, AA and Virgin's 744, 777 and A346 is just not competitive.

User currently offlineEvan767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2957 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 12948 times:

What ever happened to the long-rumored JFK-LED and JFK-WAW?

Personally, I would love to see DL operate JFK-SOF, but that has little chance.

Perhaps JFK-BEY?



The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
User currently offlineAf773atmsp From United States of America, joined exactly 8 years ago today! , 2675 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 12912 times:

I hope DL will have MSP-CDG year-round with two daily flights (and AMS go to two daily flights). Maybe start MSP-FCO or MXP with the 763, MSP-DUB with a TATL 752 (if it has the range to complete that route), and start MSP-FRA also with the 763 but I would prefer LH starting this service with the A333.


It ain't no normal MD80 its a Super 80!
User currently offlineAviateur From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1352 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 12848 times:

JFK-SOF? Come on. Why even type that? They couldn't make OTP work.... SOF would be ridiculous.

Now, as for WAW... it continues to mystify me how/why no U.S. carrier serves Poland. I am told repeatedly that most US-Poland traffic is low-yield, but still. If DL can pull off BUD, and PRG, and VIE....



Patrick Smith is an airline pilot, air travel columnist and author
User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6464 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 12833 times:



Quoting Aviateur (Reply 5):
If DL can pull off BUD, and PRG, and VIE....

Are you sure they are "pulling it off" profitably?


User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3093 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 12793 times:

It would be neat to see a bunch of new exotic destinations announced, but given the current state of the economy and the air travel industry in general, I'm expecting any expansion to be extremely limited. What I do think we'll see is some fleet rationalization amongst routes (e.g. down/up gauges where appropriate).

Then again, I could be all wrong...


User currently offlineOcracoke From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 681 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 12778 times:



Quoting Aviateur (Reply 5):
If DL can pull off BUD, and PRG, and VIE....

Interesting choice of words....DL is pulling VIE right out of the schedule!
 Wink

I'm still sticking to a DTW-WAW route. Remember, if it comes to pass, you heard it here first!


User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 9, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 12767 times:

We'll see the 763s shift to a lot of the transatlantic routes from DTW and MSP. MSP-CDG will go year round. We'll see A330s OR 764s move to the LHR and GRU routes. With more 757s which are ETOPS, they'll do more out of JFK. On the whole, it will be network rationalization. No more new stations being opened in Europe. Anything that doesn't justify service already will be served by way of connections in CDG or AMS. I, myself, would love to see destinations like Malaga and Kiev survive. I think we'll more routes go 757 to keep them alive in hard times out of JFK though.


"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlineWarszawa From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 727 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 12604 times:



Quoting Ocracoke (Reply 8):
I'm still sticking to a DTW-WAW route. Remember, if it comes to pass, you heard it here first!

DTW-WAW would be genius considering the feed they could get out of MDW/ORD.



Flying a plane is no diff. from riding a bicycle. Its just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes. -'Airplane'
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9335 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 12360 times:



Quoting Evan767 (Reply 3):

What ever happened to the long-rumored JFK-LED and JFK-WAW?

Lat thing I saw about WAW was a long time ago.

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 9):
We'll see A330s OR 764s move to the LHR and GRU routes.

764s already fly to South America. (AFAIK) ATL-GRU, ATL-GIG, and ATL-EZE all get 764s.(though not sure if its daily)
LHR will likely see a 744 and GRU also. (out of ATL that is) and with BA moving from LGW to LHR I think DL will try very hard to get at least one more slot for a 2x daily ATL-LHR flight.



yep.
User currently offlineAcey559 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1532 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 12184 times:

A few secondary European markets would be nice. Granted, as mentioned before, the economy isn't the greatest right now, but I think that there is a market to some of the destinations mentioned above. I truly hope that WAW is opened because Poland would be a very cool place for us to fly, whether it be from ATL or anywhere else. I'm excited to see what, if any, new routes open up after the merger, but I'm really hoping for LIS, OSL and HEL.

User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32728 posts, RR: 72
Reply 13, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 12002 times:

Almost anything is game, but hell well likely freeze over before Delta starts Minneapolis-Italy.


a.
User currently offlineUN_B732 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 4289 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 11899 times:

I don't know if LED was a rumor more than a hypothesis. I say a US carrier should have gone into LED years ago. It's a huge market, that has a fair amount of paid business traffic that really needs a non-stop connection to the US. I think it makes a *LOT* more sense than KBP (which Delta already serves). Could this be an issue with getting rights?

And what about ZAG? There was an article posted here a few months ago that DL was in negotiations with them to start service..

-A



What now?
User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6464 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 11236 times:



Quoting Warszawa (Reply 10):
DTW-WAW would be genius considering the feed they could get out of MDW/ORD.

The Poles in the US are many generations away from the Polish immigrants who came to this country, There is very little VFR or return to the homeland traffic out of the US. Doubt that there is much of a market.


User currently offlineSam the Lab From Ireland, joined Aug 2001, 232 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 10871 times:

What are the chances of Delta trying JFK to Cork in Ireland? The people at the airport in Cork have been doing their best for a good while now trying their level best to draw in a route to New York and you bet that the 757-200 is just the job for the mission as well. Delta could get the deal of the decade coming to Cork. It could be great all around for the folk around the Cork area that have been so starved of a transatlantic route for so, so long and good bet for Delta also at least in the summer time. Even in winter time a two or three a week would probably work out okay?

User currently offlineAv8rDAL From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 462 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 10707 times:

What about upgrading ATL-DKR-JNB and JFK-DKR-CPT to 744? I've heard the route performs well. Seems that upgrading the capacity of pax and freight would only make sense (read: more profit).

It would also free up some 764s for opening new routes out of DTW or MSP, or upgrading existing TATL services from 763 if the demand supports it.



Maintain thine airspeed, lest the Earth rise up and smite thee.
User currently offlineShamrock321 From Ireland, joined May 2008, 1597 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 10682 times:

No we have open skies I very much doubt SNN would be part of any new route plans of any US carrier.

User currently offlineLIPZ From Austria, joined Jun 2006, 1075 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 10614 times:

Just my guesses

ATL-LIS - 752
ATL-TXL - 763
CVG-MAD - 763
DTW-DUB - 752
DTW-FCO - 332
DTW-MAN - 752
JFK-NAP - 763
JFK-PRG - 763
JFK-WAW - 763


User currently offlineEI320 From Ireland, joined Dec 2007, 1436 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 10604 times:



Quoting Sam the Lab (Reply 16):
What are the chances of Delta trying JFK to Cork in Ireland? The people at the airport in Cork have been doing their best for a good while now trying their level best to draw in a route to New York and you bet that the 757-200 is just the job for the mission as well

I'd be very surprised if any carrier launched ORK-US flights anytime soon. The population just isn't there to support T/A flights from ORK since SNN is only 1.5 - 2 hrs up the road which has 3 daily flights to NYC during the summer. Delta are reducing their SNN-JFK service this winter from daily to 3x weekly, despite getting huge discounts from the airport authority. Judging on that I can't see DL even considering ORK.

Quoting Shamrock321 (Reply 18):
No we have open skies I very much doubt SNN would be part of any new route plans of any US carrier.

I wouldn't rule out further DL flights to SNN in the future.


User currently offlineMCOAviationFan From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 247 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 10474 times:



Quoting Av8rDAL (Reply 17):
What about upgrading ATL-DKR-JNB and JFK-DKR-CPT to 744? I've heard the route performs well. Seems that upgrading the capacity of pax and freight would only make sense (read: more profit).

All indications from DL are that the 747-400 will be used on ATL-NRT and ATL-GRU.

Quoting LIPZ (Reply 19):
Just my guesses

ATL-LIS - 752
ATL-TXL - 763
CVG-MAD - 763
DTW-DUB - 752
DTW-FCO - 332
DTW-MAN - 752
JFK-NAP - 763
JFK-PRG - 763
JFK-WAW - 763

I don't think DL will be announcing any new routes from DTW or MSP until after the merger is approved by the DOJ. NW may announce these routes in the meantime if they have any airplanes to fly them with.


User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9335 posts, RR: 14
Reply 22, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 10209 times:



Quoting LIPZ (Reply 19):
DTW-FCO - 332

Would be a 763.



yep.
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22911 posts, RR: 20
Reply 23, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 10196 times:



Quoting Warszawa (Reply 10):
DTW-WAW would be genius considering the feed they could get out of MDW/ORD.

The problem with that (along with JFK-WAW) is the competition that LO provides. We (justifiably) moan about LO's service, but the other 'secondary' Europe routes that DL flies lack competition. Look at VIE for an example of what happens when you have a halfway decent flag carrier which is a member of an alliance flying to the US too.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11433 posts, RR: 58
Reply 24, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 10153 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 11):
764s already fly to South America. (AFAIK) ATL-GRU, ATL-GIG, and ATL-EZE all get 764s.(though not sure if its daily)
LHR will likely see a 744 and GRU also. (out of ATL that is) and with BA moving from LGW to LHR I think DL will try very hard to get at least one more slot for a 2x daily ATL-LHR flight.

In fact South American daily routes with 764 will be ATL-GRU, ATL-GIG and ATL-SCL. EZE will continue with 767-300ER with 30C (ex-Gulf Air)



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
25 MAH4546 : Poland is actually one of few U.S.-Europe VFR markets that has such a significant amount of traffic that it works well. LOT's flights to the U.S. and
26 UN_B732 : DL competes with VV for Kiev and seems to do alright; but I haven't seen results. The fact they haven't dropped it (as they did OTP) might mean someth
27 AV8AJET : Come on how about GLA!!!!??? I'm still hoping for a ATL-GLA-ATL...DL does ATL-SNN with a 752 so let's start at least a 752 to GLA to test the flight!
28 Evan767 : Wow, if you'd read my post closer you'd see that I didn't state I thought Delta would start it. I said I wish they'd start it. Same way I wish they'd
29 DeltaL1011man : Dam I was close. I thought it was SCL that would stay the Ex. Gulf Air birds. Once again Lipe you come and bail me out. LOL thanks.
30 Bobnwa : This discussion is about the new DL, which means after the merger DL. I grew up on Western Massachusetts which is predominantly Polish. Chicopee, Amh
31 Cubsrule : The three largest Polish expat populations in North America are in Chicago (which has more Poles than every other city except Warsaw), New York, and
32 Ipodguy7 : JFK-GVA ATL-GVA JFK-BOD JFK-PMO ATL-OSL JFK-HEL JFK-LED ATL-CMN JFK-BLR ATL-BKK MSP-FRA MSP-FCO MSP-BKK DTW-MAD DTW-BCN SLC-NRT
33 Lambert747 : Airbus A330-300 ATL-AMS ATL-CDG ATL-FCO ATL-LHR JFK-FCO JFK-LHR Airbus A330-200 JFK-AMM now 763 JFK-ATH now 763 JFK-CAI now 763 JFK-IST now 763 JFK-TL
34 TN757Flyer : Out of all these, the only ones that make any viable economic sense whatsoever are possibly JFK-HEL, MSP-FRA/FCO. JFK-BLR possibly. ATL-BKK? Now that
35 FlyDreamliner : So true. It will never happen. There is no reason it ever would either. The poles are like the Norwegians, they could be 10 generations into the US,
36 Alitalia744 : some interesting hypothesis here some on the mark. some not so much.
37 DeltaL1011man : 744 All will stay 763s then maybe 787. A332s will almost have to stay on the flights to Asia. SEA-NRT could and might go 777 or A333 but SFO-NRT will
38 Af773atmsp : MSP-FCO/FRA I can see happen with the 763. MSP-BKK would be nice but it probably won't happen.
39 Cubsrule : DTW-FCO has failed (with oil around $40/barrel). Is the 763 such an improvement that it can not only make DTW-FCO work but in addition make MSP-FCO w
40 RwSEA : SEA-NRT makes sense for a 777; SEA-AMS would need to be a 764 or larger given the success of the flight. SEA-LHR is a big question mark.
41 LipeGIG : No problem, your posts are always very informative, i just made a very small correction. I heard a lot of changes, but my question is that... these 7
42 MCOAviationFan : I was referring to the new intl routes for spring 2009 which DL will be making public by the end of this month. I do not believe we will see anything
43 DeltaL1011man : I say it will keep the A332. If an A333 could do it then maybe it will get upgraded but it will not get down graded. With it dropping down to 3-4 wee
44 Tommy767 : With all of these DTW/ATL/JFK transatlantic possibilities, nobody has mentioned about the CVG-EUROPE flights or the MEM-AMS flights. Also some other i
45 LIPZ : What will happen to Cincinnati-Europe flights (Amsterdam/Frankfurt/London/Paris/Rome) ? Detroit is not that far away.
46 Cubsrule : CVG can probably support a Europe flight or two (likely Paris, then London) without a hub or with only incidental connections available. I'd say FCO,
47 Bobnwa : Never said or thought that Chicago, New york, and Toronto didn't have the largest population of Poles in North America. I am questioning the VFR tend
48 Cubsrule : Size can't explain the fact that Chicago is better-served than New York or Toronto, though.
49 B752OS : The chances of MSP gaining flights to DUB, CDG, FRA and FCO/MXP are slim to none. No way MSP gets Italy service and the same could be said for DUB. T
50 Lambert747 : CVG-CDG 752 CVG-AMS 752 CVG-FRA 752 CVG-LGW 752 All can be flown more effectively with smaller aircraft with the downsize of the CVG market. CVG-FCO
51 TN757Flyer : You don't really expect DL to maintain CVG and MEM as hubs long tern do you? They say they will keep them now to appease the politicos and civic lead
52 STT757 : Someone will correct me if I'm wrong but I believe NWA is dropping EWR-AMS, and KLM is picking it up (again).
53 Bobnwa : You ar right, NW/KL is dropping it and KL/NW is picking it up again. It has gone back and forth for years. That is the nice thing about a joint ventu
54 Ocracoke : South Africa is restricted to 21 flights weekly. If LH is looking to make BRU-FRA-MUC-ZRH-MXP work (if they get their way with the SN and AZ deals),
55 Cubsrule : AMS is a 752 now. I have a hard time believing it can survive without meaningful feed.
56 TN757Flyer : Just a hunch, but my guess is pax in Europe will fly on their own "national" airline (LH, Brussels, Swiss, etc.) so close by hubs work there. CVG and
57 Cubsrule : I'm not sure becoming STL east and south is such a bad thing for CVG and MEM; we have far lower fares here than either of those cities and retain a f
58 Post contains images ChrisNH : On one hand, I would be shocked if they didn't launch some sort of Boston-Europe service beyond what's in place now. On the other hand, I wouldn't.  
59 SNCntry32 : I agree. I think everyone is forgetting that MSP couldnt support MSP CDG, that is now seasonal... Everyone said it would work becuase it ws skysteam
60 Ocracoke : To make money? If DL can still make money in both CVG and MEM, and at the same time keep other airlines (B6, WN, etc) out and keep them from making m
61 Cubsrule : You've illustrated the problem nicely, actually. 52 pax/day demand to BRU is insufficient to support a flight without connecting feed. P&G is large e
62 MaverickM11 : I don't think you'll see much added transatlantic seeing as many of NW and DL's recent adds have been very challenging and/or pulled. I'd expect some
63 Ocracoke : That's just P&G. You've filled up a good portion of your business class right there. DL knows where the rest of its international passengers are comi
64 MaverickM11 : That's what ATL is for
65 Cubsrule : Why should DL cherrypick just for the benefit of CVG, though? Why not route all international connections over DTW or ATL? The CVG pax will likely fl
66 Ocracoke : I suppose if DL were to buy the A380, that might be possible. But if you already have full DTW-CDG, full CVG-CDG, and full ATL-CDG, where is DL to pu
67 Cubsrule : You move the CVG frequency to one of the larger hubs, which already have flights to most of the destinations that pull in a lot of connecting pax. Li
68 Alitalia744 : CVG-Europe routes are some of the better performing in the system. Both via price (gouging if you will in the CVG area) but also via P&G travel expend
69 B752OS : I think BOS would be a prime candidate for some 752A service to places like BRU, MXP, LIS. I doubt the combined airline will operate anything outside
70 Tommy767 : It's common knowledge on A.net that CVG and MEM are going to get shafted, but they wont close right away as in 2009/2010. For the time being, I would
71 Burnsie28 : LHR isn't as great as it seems, all of NW's flights are going out pretty empty, most did during the summer too, I believe as i was told that DL's wer
72 Lambert747 : A few things need to be clarified. To start CVG claims a larger demand for higher yielding business traffic, and secondly CVG has the demand to susta
73 Flighty : London is a 1,000 year old city. It's funny that people thought demand could shift so quickly from LGW to LHR. Guess what, it didn't.
74 Bobnwa : Actually, it is not common knowledge to many of us who are familiar with the situation.
75 Lambert747 : There has been no official information relseased on MEM and CVG cutbacks.
76 Cubsrule : No, but there's certainly a history of less strategically important hubs being cut after mergers... ask the folks in Pittsburgh, Las Vegas, or St. Lo
77 Lambert747 : Yes, we all know about that. All that he was saying was that nothing official has come out and until it does all of this "doom and gloom" about MEM a
78 Cubsrule : AA didn't exactly say that they were going to cut STL by 2/3 in the 5 years after the merger.
79 WorldTraveler : and how many a.net myths have become reality? CVG int'l is extraordinarily profitable. there is no reason to pull it down. What doesn't make sense is
80 Lambert747 : 9-11, killed what was left of the TW STL hub. It is not AA who pulled the plug for no good reason that TATL routes and Hawaii services were intended
81 BAKJet : If the new DL keeps IND a focus city (that's another discussion) I think that IND-AMS with a 763 (possibly a 752, but you don't get the cargo and the
82 FlyPNS1 : What is profitable today, may not be profitable tomorrow. DL was once profitable in Florida, but today there's not much left.
83 Cubsrule : Are you arguing that STL would still be at 500+ daily flights had 9/11 not happened?
84 Tommy767 : Whooaa, all I was talking about was CVG international routes. No need to judge A.net saying that many users "know the industry so poorly." You can't
85 Bobnwa : Are saying an airline should make decisions and something that might possibly happen even though there are no negative indications that it will. Shou
86 Tommy767 : Whooaa, all I was talking about was CVG international routes. No need to judge A.net saying that many users "know the industry so poorly." You can't
87 Cubsrule : What he's saying is that in 5 years when ATL-LHR is bleeding money, DL should not continue to operate it because "it made money five years ago."
88 Bobnwa : Does that mean that CVG and MEM are losing money now and should be closed. No he said that they might lose money in the future on international route
89 WorldTraveler : which is why airlines have to restructure... and DL has done that. But CVG int'l is still very profitable.... we can predict that JFK-LHR will become
90 MaverickM11 : No, but can you point to any airline running two successful hubs within 250 miles of each other? Seats are down 14% in NOV...just sayin
91 Cubsrule : We've seen closed hubs time and time again, though, in the wake of mergers. BWI DAY STL PIT LAS RNO LAX Certainly, carriers did not have the same sor
92 FlyPNS1 : Except that DL is killing many of the flights that feed into the international flights. How profitable will these flights be with less and less feed?
93 Luckyone : With the two cities being relatively close together as the crow flies -- forget driving between them though, AHHH -- wouldn't a storm that is signifi
94 Ipodguy7 : While not Tatl routes, I could see the new DL offering maybe DTW-GRU Also, MSP-Yellowknife, DTW-YYT
95 Lambert747 : I think it has been said time, and time, and time again that the great thing about CVG is the European routes for the most part are greatly induced w
96 FlyPNS1 : It can be said as many times as people like, but it's not true. While CVG does produce some O+D, there's no way DL could fill all these transatlantic
97 Cubsrule : There's no way that CVG on its own can support 5 TATL flights and PIT and STL cannot support one.
98 Ocracoke : WN: LAX/LAS, HOU/DAL AS: PDX/SEA LH: FRA/MUC, MUC/ZRH, ZRH/FRA (and if they are successful in buying out SN....FRA/BRU) AF/KLM: AMS/CDG BA: LHR/LGW A
99 DeltaL1011man : To much A/C put a 763 on it and it should work. NW's A333 hold more than a DL 777. LGW and still no listens......sad but you are right. I don't know
100 Cubsrule : If a market has one flight to London, it'll likely be to LHR... unless P&G has some business in south London that I don't know about.
101 WorldTraveler : AF/KL, LH none of which were DL hubs but that do ... every year for the past several years. DL is doing day of week cancellations and gauge changes b
102 DeltaL1011man : IF DL can find more slots for LHR they will not go to CVG.
103 Cubsrule : LAX most certainly was... for a fleeting instant. CVG can, on its own, with no feed, support 5 TATL flights (4, now that CVG-AMS is done for the year
104 MAH4546 : That is, until Delta finds enough slots at Heathrow to allow for the closing of Gatwick entirely, which is inevitable. I personally believe the marke
105 Cubsrule : I wonder (and I honestly don't know) whether BA moving their ATL service to LHR will make DL more likely to keep some presence at LGW.
106 FlyPNS1 : Other than making some vague generalities or simply regurgitating what DL's management says, you haven't really done any meaningful prognostications
107 MaverickM11 : As the saying goes, I know AF/KL and LH. DL is no AF/KL or LH. Try again.
108 PSU.DTW.SCE : Man, I've stayed away from a.net and some of the rediculous NW/DL discussions over the past few weeks, but its time to interject some common sense her
109 Ocracoke : This is where you and I will just have to disagree. You see the cuts of the past 3-4 years as a sign that DL is going to dismantle CVG. I see the cut
110 OA412 : Or I guess more accurately: I know AF/KL and LH. AF/KL and LH are a friend of mine. DL, you're no AF/KL and LH. Yeah OK, go ahead and say it, I'm a d
111 Cubsrule : How many TATL flights did CVG have when it "actually made money?"
112 Ocracoke : Before the CRJ madness started, CVG-FRA, MUC, ZRH, ORY/CDG, LGW. MUC was dropped quickly. ZRH went away when the Swissair pact was dropped.
113 Cubsrule : That looks pretty similar to what's there now, actually.
114 MaverickM11 : Or CDG/AMS/FRA/MUC ain't no DTW or CVG
115 Lambert747 : It does as it has for a number or years. Aircraft are now rationalized from what was once M11, and 777 to 763/4 and 752. Adjustments have been made,
116 BA : Politics currently prevents this route from happening, although it has great potential. MEA operated this route in the early 80's on 747-200s via ORY
117 Cubsrule : So you're suggesting that if we removed all feed from CVG, it would still support 4/5 daily TATL flights? Do you also believe that if we removed all
118 OA412 : That's the thing. People can say that those hubs are also as a short a distance from each other as DTW and CVG but, the relative size/importance/etc.
119 Bobnwa : Politics? Who is preventing it, the Democratcs or Republicans?
120 Lambert747 : FACE THE FACT CVG can support multiple flights to Europe on O/D. That is why even with the withdrawl of a number of domestic routes CVG can maintain
121 Flighty : That's a fact today, but is it a fact tomorrow? I am thinking of a city of 2+ million called Pittsburgh, that used to have widebodies to London, Fran
122 FlyPNS1 : Again, you have no data to back this up. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you that CVG might be able to support 1 or 2 flights to Europe on mostl
123 Post contains links Lambert747 : The business community/makeup of CVG is astounding. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_companies_in_Greater_Cincinnati CVG Business Headqua
124 DeltaL1011man : LAX I agree 100% All it will do is make DL look for more slots to move to ATL. They want ATL up to 2-3x daily LHR and 1 LGW. JFK 4-5x daily LHR and m
125 CatIII : DL served LED from FRA in the past (I think originally as a nonstop on the 727's, and then via WAW on the 727's, and for a brief instance in the mid-
126 TN757Flyer : Is there any proof these hubs are making money now, possibly aside from the international routes, which they cannot sustain on O&D alone? It's naive
127 WorldTraveler : of course you want to dismiss what I have said about DL but I - not DL mgmt - was saying DL would survive 3 years ago when they went into BK. It was I
128 TN757Flyer : Gee, slightly arrogant post there? You betcha!
129 Lambert747 : The plan or so it has been discussed is: 2x ATL-LHR, now 1 3x JFK-LHR, now 2 1x DTW-LHR 1x MSP-LHR 1x SEA-LHR 1x LAX-LHR (now operated by AF, discuss
130 DeltaL1011man : I agree to a point. JFK-LHR could go 4x daily. (slots pending) I have heard talk of 2x daily LHR at DTW. Both being 763s though.
131 Cubsrule : Why are you so angry? Look what I said two days ago... Paris and London are likely to stay regardless of whether the hub closes. Without meaningful f
132 MaverickM11 : AF/KL and LH both generated about 60% more revenue in 2007 than DL, which we all know is the way an airline's size (at least you claimed such when yo
133 Lambert747 : FRA is one of the strongest performing O/D TATL routes from CVG, along with LGW. CDG, AMS is one of the stronger connection reliant markets. FCO is a
134 Cubsrule : I have a hard time believing that LGW would be cut if AMS stays; AMS and CDG are redundant and (as I said before), AMS cannot be downsized further.
135 DeltaL1011man : Sure it can......they can not run it Daily.
136 Lambert747 : My error, insert the term "last", where "lost" appears.. In reference to AMS is has very little connectivity, however once the merged airline comes i
137 Cubsrule : It's already down to 4x/week in the winter...
138 Contrails : Can some explain what "TATL" stands for? I see it on occasion, but I've never seen it spelled out. Thanks.
139 Lambert747 : TATL Transatlantic TPAC Trans Pacific Which goes to further my point that CVG-AMS and CVG-CDG are the two weakiest performing routes in the market. L
140 Cubsrule : Transatlantic... sorry about that. I suspect that's right. My guess is that the rank is LGW FRA CDG AMS That said, I don't think FRA and CDG are that
141 Lambert747 : However what I have heard, and forgive me for not knowing if this is fact is that CVG-CDG, FRA, LGW may ned up being the only routes left standing a
142 Cubsrule : CVG-FRA is probably not doable year-round with a 752.
143 Lambert747 : I think it is with a payload restriction in summertime, however you are correct without some sort of restriction it is not doable to my knowledge. Th
144 DaufuskieGuy : why then did they not charter a 757? what do these airlines have in common? none are US legacy carriers. AA at STL, RDU, SJC are better indicators of
145 Lambert747 : 52 seats on a A320 equals almost double on a 757. Why have a flight operate on a larger aircraft with empty seats?
146 Mayor : Right after the DL/WA merger, although LAX wasn't as viable a hub for WA as SLC was at the time.
147 Jetlanta : AF/KL and LH have significantly higher non-airline related revenues which make up a larger portion of that premium. The difference in RPMs/RPKs is no
148 Luckyone : P&G is one company Unless you meant to add another and that is just a typo... Though yes, a company that large is going to have a significant amount
149 DeltaL1011man : Oh look at that I called that one. AF/DL will start a 3rd JFK-LHR flight(opped by AF). Also all USA-LHR flights on DL will be on 764s next summer. An
150 Cubsrule : Yes, but you can't profitably take away the feed and run it 2x weekly in the winter. 4x weekly in the summer might be doable, but the yields are goin
151 MAH4546 : It was never a winter-only route. At times it only ran during the summer.
152 DeltaL1011man : Crap......Thats what I meant. Summer only route.....my bad.
153 PSU.DTW.SCE : CVG - LHR/LGW, FRA, and CDG should be able to hold their own with CVG O&D and connecting feed. AMS & FCO are wildcards. As others have mentioned, AMS
154 727forever : A.net knowledge runs real deep, just look at the threads predicting that the NW DC-9s are set to be retired any day now. CVG-EU flights are here to s
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