Kiwiinoz From New Zealand, joined Oct 2005, 1483 posts, RR: 7 Reply 2, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 30882 times:
Some reports are claiming that it's an A320. If that is the case I can only assume that the 40 injuries are a result of 300 people squeezing in 2 per seat!
Nice way to put Learmonth on the map....never heard of it!
"I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal. "
Sydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 1628 posts, RR: 6 Reply 3, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 30843 times:
I was just going to say, I'm sure they mean an A330-300 which usually does the PER-SIN runs.
The flight must have hit some clear air turbulence somwhere! Interestingly enough Learmonth is also the only alternate airport for diversions from PER in Western Australia.
Jetfuel From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 926 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 30774 times:
Qantas Aircraft Diverts to Learmonth in Western Australia Latest News
Sydney, 08 October 2008
Qantas said today that a number of passengers and crew sustained injuries, including fractures and lacerations, on board QF72 this afternoon en route from Singapore to Perth following a sudden change in altitude.
The flight, operated by an A330-300 aircraft with 303 passengers and 10 crew, diverted to Learmonth in Western Australia and landed at approximately 3.30pm local time.
The flight had been due to land in Perth at 3.50pm.
Emergency services, including medical attendants, met the aircraft on landing.
Qantas said there were no details available at this stage as to what caused the altitude change.
Further information will be issued as soon as it is available.
Issued by Qantas Corporate Communication (3829)
Email: qantasmedia@qantas.com.au
HANG ON - It's only October 7 today and its still only 252Pm Perth time as I speak
Up to 40 people have been injured in a mid-air incident that forced an Australian Airbus A320 airliner to make an emergency landing, police in Perth have said.
"It is understood up to 40 people were injured during a mid-air incident," Sergeant Greg Lambert of the West Australian Police said after the jet made an emergency landing at an airfield in the town of Exmouth.
"The nature of the mid-air incident is unknown," he said.
Australia's national carrier Qantas, which has suffered a spate of incidents in recent months, told the AFP news agency it had no information about the incident yet.
More follows ...
Halophila From United States, joined Aug 2005, 572 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 30703 times:
Let's hope that this doesn't damage the QF reputation further, and people realize that this isn't the airline's fault!! And most of all, I hope that those passengers with injuries and mental trauma recovery quickly...
Clear Air Turbulence can be very unpredictable and that time of day was near perfect for it...
A Mayday was called and things were obviously serious as Port Hedland airport is way better in terms of facilites. Exmouth was obviously closer, has a longer runway but is a bit of a ghost town and often umnanned. Obviously a matter of get on the ground ASAP
Zappbrannigan From Australia, joined Oct 2008, 247 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 30515 times:
Hmmm, interesting to hear more on this one. The media circus will no doubt whirl into action again. Couldn't believe it a couple of months ago when The Age (newspaper here in Melbourne, for you non-Aussies) reported on the front page (after the string of other incidents), that a "Qantas aircraft was delayed 40 minutes out of Brisbane today, it was due to depart at 1pm but passengers reported it sat at the gate until 1:40" - and nothing further. As though QF experiences one delayed aircraft a year. It was becoming an absolute joke.
Zeke From Hong Kong SAR, PRC, joined Dec 2006, 4791 posts, RR: 65 Reply 16, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 30492 times:
Todays SIGWX chart forecast a jetstream at FL380 just near YPLM (Learmont) strength of over 100 kt with associated occasional severe clear air turbulence.
That would have been right on the flight path, and expected altitude.
Cathay Pacific wins Airline of the Year 2009 Award. Great service. Great people. Great fares.
Zeke From Hong Kong SAR, PRC, joined Dec 2006, 4791 posts, RR: 65 Reply 17, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 30454 times:
Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 12): interesting that SQ arrived safely and was probably only 5-10mins behind the QF flight down from SIN.
If they were indeed that close, they would not have been at the same altitude, could have been that the QF flight was at FL380, and SQ at FL360 and not had a bump at all.
Cathay Pacific wins Airline of the Year 2009 Award. Great service. Great people. Great fares.
QANTAS077 From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 5483 posts, RR: 54 Reply 18, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 30453 times:
Quoting Zeke (Reply 16): Todays SIGWX chart forecast a jetstream at FL380 just near YPLM (Learmont) strength of over 100 kt with associated occasional severe clear air turbulence.
just saw that on a jetstream website...be a nice tailwind on the DXB-SYD flight!
That is the 300 mb chart, which is for FL300, that is somewhat below what the aircraft would be cruising at that far into the flight. If you can find a 200 mb chart, that will give you the FL380 information.
The SIGWX chart I looked at goes from FL250-FL630, and had the jetstream at FL380 with an associated area of CAT around it.
The tropopause today is up around FL500 in that area.
Quoting ANstar (Reply 19): The QF release doesn't mention turbulence, so perhaps it could be a tech issue?
"While cruising in level flight, the aircraft experienced a sudden in-flight upset, resulting in injuries to a number of cabin crew and passengers, primarily in the rear of the aircraft," the ATSB said.
Sounds like severe turbulence to me, but as you say could have been a tech issue.
Pilotdude09 From Australia, joined May 2005, 1682 posts, RR: 3 Reply 23, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 29996 times:
Quoting Sydscott (Reply 3): The flight must have hit some clear air turbulence somwhere! Interestingly enough Learmonth is also the only alternate airport for diversions from PER in Western Australia.
I'm sure Port Hedland is a alternate, they have had 747's land there a number of times and large Antonov planes land several times so the runway length isn't an issue and better medical facilities and when Karratha has it's runway upgrade they will also be able to handle larger a/c with even better medical facilites than Port Hedland and have a few companies with response teams.
Also Learmonth is a RAAF base, so has staff but it's not a fully staffed unit so only a skeleton crew basically, also there's a few American military, Air force guys based there as well.
Quoting Jetfuel (Reply 13): A Mayday was called and things were obviously serious as Port Hedland airport is way better in terms of facilites. Exmouth was obviously closer, has a longer runway but is a bit of a ghost town and often umnanned. Obviously a matter of get on the ground ASAP
Yep, must of been pretty critical and according to reports it was 6 minutes from the incident to landing.
Quoting Jetfuel (Reply 20): Royal Flying Doctor Service enroute plus 2 QF rescue planes for passengers
Wonder if they will just be sending up 737's or 717's? being that Exmouth/Learmonth isn't even a QF destination so no staff or anything to assist on the ground.
Pretty scary! Actually worse turbulence i have ever had was on a SIN-PER, stuff flying around the cabin, flight attendants being flown around and having to try and rush the carts to the back of the a/c then find a seat somewhere.
QANTAS077 From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 5483 posts, RR: 54 Reply 24, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 29911 times:
Quoting Zeke (Reply 22): If you can find a 200 mb chart, that will give you the FL380 information.
I've done a few searches but can't find it, if you do can you post it? be interesting to see.
Quoting Pilotdude09 (Reply 23): they have had the AN-225 land several times so the runway length isn't an issue and better medical facilities and when Karratha has it's runway upgrade they will also be able to handle larger a/c with even better medical facilites than Port Hedland and have a few companies with response teams.
AN 225 has never visited Australia, its not permitted and CASA won't permit it to land here.
[Edited 2008-10-07 01:08:22]
I support the Palestinian cause but there is no flag available for me to display!
RussianJet From Kazakhstan, joined Jul 2007, 3593 posts, RR: 16 Reply 25, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 29842 times:
Feel sorry for the injured, but I wish people would actually keep their seatbelts on during flight.
★✈★ coca-cola - пойло для идиотов! ★✈★
26 QF175: 767-300 VH-ZXC is headed for Learmonth as QF6122 to rescue passengers.. Thoughts are with those passengers injured
27 ANstar: I'm not saying it isn't turbulence, but there seems to be reports of an instrument failure and an inflight upset. I would have thought if it had just
28 SInGAPORE_AIR: That description seems more like something Peter Gibson of CASA would say.
30 Pilotdude09: Whoops my bad, meant the 124 Think theres a bit more to this story, obviously the a/c cant fly since other aircraft are coming to get the stranded pa
31 UAL777UK: Exactly. It should be mandatory that passengers have seats belts on whilst in flight, its bot that its uncomfortable if its loosened slightly.. I fee
32 Jetfuel: After turbulence it is mandatory for engineers to inspect the aircraft before it can fly again. At this stage we dont know what damage if any has occ
33 Caspritz78: That's the policy on LH flights. Seatbelts have to be on the whole time while you are seated.
34 Tayser: Presumably LEA and CGK are the only two diversionary airports for SIN-PER traffic?
35 QF744ER: I believe Learmonth is the only other airport in WA that can handle widebodied aircraft of that size. I have a gut feeling that Learmonth was or still
36 Pilotdude09: Well you have the option of KTA, PHE, BME, LEA along the North West Coast, though Broome is a bit far out of the way. On PPRUNE they were talking abo
37 Pilotdude09: Latest from QF: UPDATE ON QF72 DIVERSION TO LEARMONTH SYDNEY, 7 October 2008: Qantas is sending two aircraft to Learmonth from Perth to collect passen
38 Ukkiwibird: Have you ever been on a plane when it hits clear turbulance.? I have once , infact on a flight going from Auckland-Brisbane -Dubai. Everything was fin
39 Ryan h: No thanks!. I would consider alternative means of transport.
40 QANTAS077: why doesn't that correspond with reply 6? don't alter what I said, I never said anything about this at all.
41 Dynamicsguy: It's also the policy on QF - this is announced when the setbelt sign is switched off.
42 Gemuser: Got a referance? On what basis is an aircraft registered in an ICAO member country not permitted to land in Oz. Does it not have an Ukirainian type c
43 QF744FAN: I think you mean the An-124, comes to Perth, Pearce and larger northwest towns fairly regularly carrying mining equipment and such Great call!!!! The
44 Travelhound: I was on a flight to Bahrain where we had a similar situation. No one hurt, but the plane was full of school girls going to Saudi Arabia for Ramadan.
45 TreeHillRavens: QF 333 is configured with 30J and 267Y = JY 297. Due to the distance of the flight, i believe 4 seats in EY are blocked off for crew rest. So how cou
47 StealthZ: Was kind of curious about that myself.. No it doesn't but one of the quirks of Anet is if you select text then hit the "Quote Selected Text button be
48 Smi0006: Very Very true, so long as it was clear air turbulence and not a problem with the instruments I most certainly hope not however we do know nothing at
49 QANTAS077: ummm...I never said what you've quoted, what on earth is going on here? so it seems...its still happening! :S well why don't you ring and ask them? p
50 QF744FAN: My mistake, as was just discussed I made the mistake of hitting the "quote selected text" button underneath, rather than on top. My apologies
51 NZ107: Seems like the NZ media isn't great either.. I just saw them put a map on TV with Learmonth labelled correctly, then Perth for some reason is located
52 Zeke: Why not ? Upset refers to "The four conditions that generally describe an airplane upset (figure 1) are unintentional: * Pitch attitude more than 25
53 NZ107: Are you able to give me the link for those charts? Thanks
54 Pilotdude09: Just on the local news Had some footage of the aircraft and looked 'intact' and they have said it was a severe turbulence incident involving an air po
55 DingDong: I wonder how the paxs' seat belts failed. They're normally pretty sturdy.
56 Arniepie: Continental drift ? Maybe a dumb question but did the plane suffer any damage from this?[Edited 2008-10-07 03:00:20]
57 QF744FAN: I think that is perhaps my most hated term in the whole English language!!!! The number of people who legitimately believe that there are little pock
58 Zeke: I cannot give you the link where I got them form. You can try http://www.bom.gov.au/reguser/by_prod/aviation/ . The information should be the same as
59 Peh: Let's see the ATSB report first. There's only speculation re: turbulance at this point.
60 AceFreighter: Am hearing rumours that this could be some sort of failure of the pitch computer causing the pitch up then down.... yuuucchh
61 Zeke: No Airbus FBW aircraft has a pitch computer
62 Jetfuel: somebody mesaged me and said it was an autopilot issue and I was hesitant to repeat it.... arghhhh. Too early to speculate especially considering the
63 Peh: Yep. It was Sydney to Hong Kong on a Qantas A330. Up until the moment we hit the clear turbulance, it was the smoothest flight of my life. The seatbe
64 QANTAS077: not allowed to land on the 45m wide runways and never will be. CASA won't permit it. thanks for the charts, much appreciated.
65 Jetfuel: News Update news.com.au 36 hurt in Qantas mid-air incidentBy Warwick Stanley October 07, 2008 08:50pm THRITY-SIX people were hurt, some seriously, whe
66 Cumulus: Is this photo on the BBC website entirely necessary? Look at the angle it is taken at implying the jet is diving. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asi
67 Gopal: Does anybody think that structural damage could have occured to the aircraft ?
68 Zeke: It is very possible during an upset on the A330 for the autopilot to disconnect, master warning warning generated, and AUTO FLT AP OFF ECAM message.
69 RussianJet: No problem, didn't notice your earlier apology on the matter there. Is there any further word on the state of the injured, numbers involved etc.?
70 QANTAS077: ask CASA, they make the rules! I only know that they won't allow it into Australia and one of the reasons is the 45m wide runway at some airports tha
71 Zkpilot: It is Qantas policy for pax to keep their seat-belts fastened whenever they are in their seats even if the seat-belt sign is off (with the exception
72 Allrite: What are the magnitudes of vertical acceleration and altitude changes likely to have been experienced in this incident? I'm sure there will be figures
73 MadameConcorde: So much bad karma for Qantas. Why is it all these serial "incidents"? http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7656171.stm I hope Nancy will keep safe!
74 Cainanuk: Just goes to show you that clear air turbulence (if that is indeed the culprit here) is a bitch! Even if it was not CAT, you really should leave your
75 EBGflyer: " target=_blank>http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=e...=addr Nice with a 10000 foot runway in the middle of nowhere!! Having 303 PAX on board the fli
76 MadameConcorde: A lot of passengers take flying for granted and they never fasten their safety belts while they are sitting down. I think the airlines should really i
77 Zeke: From what I understand, the average vertical acceleration was around 48 m/s² for a 10 second event.[Edited 2008-10-07 06:18:14]
78 LHRspotter: This looks somewhat similar to the Air Canada flight 190 incident that experienced similar flight "upset". It was an A319 which made an emergency land
79 Zappbrannigan: Qantas do everything they can without scaring people, on every flight. There's always an announcement along the lines of "you are now free to move ab
80 WILCO737: I hear that many airlines say that during they announcement, but the problem is: do the passengers really listen? It is the same with: remain seated
81 SOBHI51: You will be surprised as to how many passengers do not pay any attention to the F/A or the monitors during the safety instructions.
82 Zappbrannigan: Couldn't agree more - but unfortunately for the airline it seems to be a case of finding a balance between zero tolerance on safety, and not offendin
83 SpeedBirdA380: True. But as quite a frequent flyer I have to admit I dont pay much attention to the safety instruction's either. After so many times you lose intere
84 Singapore_Air: Sources said the Airbus 330-300 was cruising at more than 30,000ft on autopilot when it suddenly lifted, then dropped 350ft. Normally, turbulence thr
85 Alessandro: I wonder if there´s a technical solution to this, when the seatbelt is locked an light is lit on a panel at the flight attendant place, so the can s
86 Zeke: Hope they did not pay the source for that information, pretty poor quality info.
87 PlaneInsomniac: Both CBC News and CTV later reported wake turbulence as a possible reason: http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...080116/air_canada_080116/20080116/
88 DeC: Why would they care if people are stupid? They've done their part of the job correctly by warning everyone and leaving the seatbelt lights on so why
89 LordHowe: How often are Qantas flights from SIN to PER scheduled via Learmonth? I found this on www.qantas.com when checking the timetables and clicking on this
90 TreeHillRavens: Opps, didn't cross my mind earlier. My bad. Jeez ... lighten up, dude !
91 RussianJet: They would care precisely because in spite of the warnings people are still getting hurt. Quite simple really.
92 LHRspotter: Yes, I've also read numerous other sources suggesting that but there is no FORMAL incident report or any conclusion yet. It will be interesting (afte
93 Flyabunch: It might be easier to get people to keep their belts fastened if they leave the hole in the overhead that the passenger's head went thru. At least on
94 RussianJet: Even better, they should just play harsh news reports on a loop about nasty injuries sustained as a result of CAT, until people actually get the mess
95 ChiGB1973: Announcements from flight deck and cabin crew, signs, common knowledge, the seatbelt itself, other passengers fastening their seatbealts. I'll agree w
96 EBGflyer: Only this time! Flight status shows the diversion. It is not unusual (except for the diversion).
97 Readytotaxi: Hope all injured make a full recovery, and soon. On a lighter note, I better that cabin is going to need one heck of a clean up, stuff must have gone
98 ThomasCook: Passengers are so blasé about their own safety, a lot neglect to fasten their seatbelts for take off and landing and I have to remind them during fin
99 RussianJet: Yup. And my personal pet-hate - people that undo their damn belt the second the reversers stow or the plane starts to exit the runway. I do wonder wh
100 LHRspotter: I guess they spend too much time on the road at 80 - 90 mph in their cars so the 5 mph taxi to the gate is not an event that warrants the use of belt
101 WILCO737: And that is the moment when we like to hit the brakes just for split second and passengers flying across the aisle Just kidding. But it can be really
102 RussianJet: Yes indeed, mein kumpel! I really wish you guys would use the brakes a little more often when I hear the clickety-click of multiple seatbelts being o
103 PlanesNTrains: Probably a good idea! My wife is one of those who doesn't like to keep her seatbelt fastened. I've finally gotten her to keep it on loosely, and our
104 CYatUK: This is also the time that you start hearing sms messages delivered on people's phones
105 ChiGB1973: I just see the aftermath of not wearing seatbelts nearly everyday I work. I suppose I don't see a lot of them too, I get canceled en route and the fu
106 SpeedBirdA380: I think the main reason so many people dont bother with their seatbelts is because they dont understand how dangerous turbulence can be. I would gues
107 RussianJet: Hmmm, you may well have a point there!
108 CYatUK: I think here we have to exlude the few passengers that had to be away from their seats for other reasons e.g. toilet. It must have been ever scarier
109 AlexA340B777: That makes it nearly a 5g exposure, don't want to experience that on an A330!
110 PlanesNTrains: Certainly you are welcome to. I just think that lecturing the guy after he had already admitted that he was "an idiot" seemed a bit gratuitous. Like
111 Acabgd: I was on a flight where the exact thing happened. There was a taxiway incursion and the captain slammed the brakes and some passengers who already go
112 Boston92: What percentage of these CAT events occur over the US or Canada? (Note that the air canada event was not CAT, but a rare weather event)
113 PlaneInsomniac: I thought there was no official report yet on AC 190. Would you mind sharing where you have this information from? So far, I am aware of at least fou
114 Boston92: I thought it was due to an undular bore...maybe not though.
115 PlaneInsomniac: I just checked the web again. Back in January, all sorts of theories were talked about, including some unnamed "computer failure." (Always a favorite
116 Baroque: Historical note: not nowhere. Learmonth is about 15 miles SSE of the Rough Range "oilfield". Back in 1954 prior to that drilling, North West Cape rea
117 QANTAS077: this always happens with QF, if a flight diverts it will reflect this in the schedule and the arr/dep info, nothing odd about it at all.
118 Zappbrannigan: Update on this: "A Qantas spokesman said it was too early to speculate on the cause of the plunge, but the West Australian Police Commissioner, Karl O
119 Allrite: I wonder if they he is referring to the disengagement of the autopilot as a consequence of the drop. Looking at the turbulence charts from yesterday
120 PlanesNTrains: Sadly, your statement probably doesn't hold much water. The reality is that we hear over and over again the speculation propagated by folks who (take
121 QF744ER: It's interesting that our top 'Cop' has come out and given a possible cause for this latest incident. I find it very unusual that he would know the ca
122 Baroque: Probably . It goes in about the same bucket as the ABC announcer this morning who proudly introduced an item about the incident that happened to a "Q
123 Allrite: Qantas plunge: computer 'irregularity' Maybe I'm wrong and it wasn't turbulence.[Edited 2008-10-07 19:15:10]
124 ANstar: It seems pretty clear that it wasn;'t turbulence given the account above from the ATSB. Surely at the time pilots would have known it was turbulence
125 Allrite: I seem to remember an incident a couple of years back of a Malaysian Airlines A330(?) suddenly losing altitude out of Perth. The pilots there claimed
126 DingDong: The ATSB statement was quite interesting, indeed. Paraphrasing here for those not reading the article: apparently there were ECAM messages about an el
127 Zappbrannigan: Sorry, I was specifically referring to police. Agreed, everyone else speculates until the cows come home. Police are normally very savvy about admiss
128 AlexA340B777: Was thinking exactly the same...
129 MHTripple7: I was just thinking of the same incident, however, I seem to remember it being a 777.
130 Zeke: The language still does not seem right, the A330 does not have an "elevator control system". The only ECAM messages you can have with the elevator ar
131 Zkpilot: It also depends on whether it was a drop caused by the aircraft, or whether the whole airmass around the aircraft dropped... If it was the former the
132 AlexA340B777: Interesting point, Zkpilot. So this would probably support the turbulence -"whole in the air" theory, rather than a failure of a plane system, which
133 Antskip: ABC News (Aust) reports:"director of aviation safety investigation Julian Walsh says the flight crew received a message of an irregularity in the elev
134 Zeke: The next line is a little more revealing "Mr Walsh says an Airbus representative is currently travelling to Australia." they would only do that for s
135 Springbok747: Right...just spoke to a friend who was on board (row 25). He said that the aircraft was just flying smooth and straight, no turbulence. no nothing. He
136 NAV20: Don't get that comment, Springbok747? The facts are being reported - it's just that there aren't many facts up to this point, as with the Learmonth i
137 Chrisrad: Was indeed an MH B772 http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/...ports/2005/AAIR/aair200503722.aspx
138 ANstar: Normally a small airline crash (18 seats) ina third world country will not get a smuch attention as our main airline who has had a string of safety s
139 HAWK21M: The number of posts is determined by the people posting out here...Some topics are more nearer to them 7 interests them more than others. regds MEL
140 Rheinwaldner: In the same direction? If yes after ten seconds experiencing such an acceleration the vertical speed would approach MACH2. IMO not reasonable.
141 Caspritz78: Until something happen like it did on a LH flight FRA-JFK. We arrived at JFK, taxied to the gate and stopped a little bit away from the building. Fro
142 PW100: Flight control irregularity now also confirmed by www.flighglobal.com. Regards, PW100
143 Zeke: This all comes from the same ATSB press conference, which got all their information from Qantas. The ATSB has not done any investigation yet, they ha
144 XaraB: It's amazing (and really encouraging) to see that this thread has 140+ posts without anyone blaming the crew. I'm not going to do that either, but I d
145 SpeedBirdA380: Things certainly dont appear to be going Qantas's way this year. Of course they are. With the launch of the A380 just round the corner its yet anot
146 Jetfuel: I was wondering how close to stalling the plane would be after the inital climb.... it may possibly explain something
147 Singapore_Air: Qantas warned of flaws in plane's computer QANTAS was repeatedly warned about potential problems with elevation systems on an aircraft that plunged ou
148 Singapore_Air: Qantas autopilot blamed for jet plunge A COMPUTER malfunction involving Qantas Flight 72's autopilot system has emerged as the likely cause of the pas
149 Zeke: Nothing new, just a rehash/beat up/sensitisation of the ATSB press conference I mentioned in reply 143.
150 CPH-R: That reminds me of my flight from from the LHR meet. We had a professional footballer onboard, who either was acting primadonna or had taken too many
151 QFYMML: Computer o-rings? Perhaps not the best article to use in terms of integrity. I hope SQ take this into account when they start operating the type too.
152 QANTAS077: I'd rather take QF's media release than the rubbish being posted here from sources like News Ltd. http://www.qantas.com.au/regions/dyn...details?Artic
153 HAWK21M: True. But not much details. I guess the preliminary report will spell out things in a month. regds MEL
154 Halophila: http://www.news.com.au/travel/story/0,26058,24469164-5014090,00.html I wonder if someone was using their cell phone or wireless laptop? Whatever happe
155 Jetfuel: As were every A330 operator worldwide. To even suggest that QF didnt act on warnings is scandal. IGNORE everything unless you hear it from the ATSB o
156 Jamie86: If it was an auto pilot malfunction or something, wouldnt there be a gradual decrease like what happens at top of decent?
157 Zkpilot: Not necessarily.... or its possible that damage is hidden from sight... internally. Rumours floating around now are that it was caused by a passenger
158 Jetfuel: When an autopilot goes brain dead it can sometimes do amasing things and takes a lot of force and trim inout to correct it
159 Jetfuel: QANTAS DOES THE RIGHT THING... QANTAS will refund the fares of passengers on a jet which violently lost altitude and nosedived above Western Australia
161 Zkpilot: Not an airticket to London, but equivilant in value to flying to London... just showing its a generous gesture... sure its scary etc, but in flight t
162 AlexA340B777: That would really be a probable cause? I am only asking, I've got really no idea if that could be the cause of the event in question...
163 ANstar: I think the ATSB is now pretty certain it was a computer falure of some sort. I doubt QF would be giving vouchers for turbulence.
164 Travelhound: "As always we will cooperate fully with the ATSB, as well as conducting our own investigation into the incident". Considering their run of bad luck o
165 Antskip: The Age (Aust) reports:"Black box data from the Qantas plane that fell toward the Indian Ocean on Tuesday reveals the aircraft nosedived twice before
166 Zeke: Pretty well much word for word from the ATSB investigation update http://www.atsb.gov.au/newsroom/2008/release/2008_40a.aspx "While the full interpre
167 StealthZ: Hi Folks, I have had a long day followed by a couple of red wines so my arithmetic is a touch rusty. These vertical movements of 650 & 400 ft in the
168 Zappbrannigan: You are correct, the average rates of descent in question are quite low - 1950 and 1500 ft/min average respectively. Big jets frequently descend at d
169 WithaK: That's what I thought at first but after doing some quick math (which I hope is correct) found 650 feet in 20 seconds is fairly quick. That averages
170 WILCO737: 650 in 20 seconds is 1950 feet per minute, I did 3000 ft/min during my descent today and it is no big deal. I think the rate at what it was initiated
171 Acabgd: Exactly, from these numbers we cannot discern what the initial drop rate was. Sure it lasted 20 seconds and was 650 feet... but what it the first 500
172 FlyingKangaroo: Just saw on the news that all passengers are being interviewed to establish if any of them were using laptops while the incident occurred. Apparently
173 Caspritz78: Don't forget the injuries happen all in the rear of the cabin. So while the rate of descent was not that big a sudden change from descending to climbi
174 Zeke: You sure ? I saw a video that showed part of the interior, some reasonable sized holes in the ceiling in EY between door 2 and door 3, due to their s
175 Chrisrad: Here is the video http://media.smh.com.au/?rid=42532
176 Jetfuel: So QF now has a 747-400 and am A330-300 u/s due to incidents.......
177 Chrisrad: For those who havent seen some of the pics from inside the aircraft courtesy of http://www.news.com.au/gallery/0,23607,5035047-5007150-1,00.html
178 Jetfuel: ***** Maximum pitch angle of about 8.4 degrees***** Qantas Airbus Accident Media Conference 10 October 2008 The Australian Transport Safety Bureau inv
179 Alessandro: Swedish media claim a laptop of a passenger was the cause of this accident? http://www.aftonbladet.se/webbtv/nyheter/utrikes/article3504953.ab I don´
180 Miami1: I just noticed in the picture of the aft galley the hand rail bar running across the galley bench is bent. These bars are very strong, im hoping that
181 StealthZ: They are just playing along with the media hysteria that has been happening for days here. From the ATSB media briefing in reply 178- Cheers
182 Airnewzealand: Hi Miami1... it was a cabin crew member who fell back down, from the roof, on top of these bars. He was AKL based (4 AKL based onboard) and has had a
183 LTBEWR: CNN (USA) had a piece today (Monday) on the possibility of personal electronic device interference as to this incident done by reporter (and licenced
184 Jetfuel: There is an ATSB media conference discussing the progress of the investigation into the circumstances surrounding this incident today, Tuesday, 14 Oct
185 Zkpilot: not to mention his other job as Transporter Chief aboard the Federation vessel USS Enterprise! Big grin (for any Star Trek fans out there lol).
186 NAV20: Our ABC-TV just said - as a 'late-breaking item' - that the cause had been traced to 'wrong information being fed to the autopilot by computers.' They
187 Jetfuel: ATSB RELEASE Qantas Airbus A330 Accident Media Conference, 14 October 2008 The Australian Transport Safety Bureau's investigation into the accident in
188 Zeke: I have not seen the diagram, but this is the A330 Electronic Flight Control System system
189 Zeke: Nav, the easiest way I can explain it to you, it was like having a blocked pitot tube. The 3 air data units are like the pilot/static tubes you have
190 Jetfuel: Almost makes you remember why people were scared of fly by wire and computers controling airplanes....................
191 Rosterdriven: There shoud be a hardover protection in some way if one channel fails. At least on this new aircraft design? Any thoughts. rgds
192 Allrite: The report mentions that there are three ADIRUs. Is this a redundant system? If it is then shouldn't the system notice that one ADIRU is giving anoma
193 NAV20: Cheers, Zeke. But I was only quoting what I recall the TV newsreader saying. That's why it's in quotes! I may even have got that wrong - even the spo
194 Baroque: Translating what the ABC radio has been saying, it sounds as if Zeke will soon get a message to tell him what to do if his aircraft makes sudden unco
195 GOGOJET: Why do seemingly rare software/ADIR failures (MH124,QF72) occur off the coast of Western Australia? What is happening with the aircraft involved? Wher
196 TristarSteve: Yes but in the cruise only one ADIRU is feeding the autopilot. So until this ADIRU is voted off, it will control the aircraft, until the AP is discon
197 Baroque: Ho ho ho!! An item on our Lateline wondered if the Bermuda triangle had moved or been redeveloped into a new location in terms of control computers f
198 666Wizard: Lessons learnt for everyone, so far: - Keep seat belt on when seated (d'oh!) - Switch off your wireless points on your laptop / mobile / USB mouse / i
199 Zeke: We have had an email go out to all our Airbus pilots, and expect a formal notice to crew to be issued today, and a operational engineering bulletin t
200 HAWK21M: This would have def reduced the number of casualties. regds MEL
201 Dec: Imagine this scenario, at night and with limited-to-none situational awareness.
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