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Ryanair (FR) To Impose Unpaid Leave  
User currently offlineHeeBeeGB From Finland, joined Sep 2007, 424 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5363 times:

Sorry if this has been posted before

"Ryanair is to impose one week’s unpaid leave on 400 staff as it looks to counter the worst crisis the industry has ever faced.

Four hundred pilots and cabin crew based at Dublin and Stansted airports will be affected. The unpaid leave will take place from the first week of November until February.

Chief executive Michael O’Leary added that management would also take a pay and bonus cut but the exact amount had yet to be decided. However, he stressed that management would still get a bonus.

O’Leary said the decision to give pilots and cabin crew one week’s unpaid leave was related to grounding aircraft for the winter at Dublin and Stansted"

Source is OneWorld intranet

32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDingDong From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 661 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4956 times:

Quoting HeeBeeGB (Thread starter):
Chief executive Michael O’Leary added that management would also take a pay and bonus cut but the exact amount had yet to be decided. However, he stressed that management would still get a bonus.

Lovely.

They might as well as be more honest and just call it 'entitlement' instead of 'bonus'.

[Edited 2008-10-08 20:56:28]


DingDong, honey, please answer the doorbell!
User currently offlineLambert747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4948 times:



Quoting HeeBeeGB (Thread starter):
Four hundred pilots and cabin crew based at Dublin and Stansted airports will be affected. The unpaid leave will take place from the first week of November until February.

So the bubble has burst, finally.. Many feel bad for those affected by this including myself. However in some perverse way I love to see this kind of egg on the face of MOL. This happened under his own watch. He was always quick to say Arrivederci Alitalia, and a few other choices words to Lufthansa. Now Lufthansa can retort and say:

Viel Glück, das Sie es brauchen werden Ryanair..

Hope my German is not that horrid!  duck 

Quoting HeeBeeGB (Thread starter):
Ryanair is to impose one week’s unpaid leave on 400 staff as it looks to counter the worst crisis the industry has ever faced.

Wonder if MOL is going to end up blaming AZ, BA, or LH for this. He seems to be good at never blaming his own foul decisions and instead tries to blame everyone else for his and his airlines own shortcomings.


User currently offlineKLMCedric From Belgium, joined Dec 2003, 810 posts, RR: 22
Reply 3, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 4850 times:

I've heard about these measures before, but what I heard was that staff would be imposed
3 months of unpaid leave, iso this article stating that during a 3month period staff would be imposed 1 week of unpaid leave. While I still condone such measures, the latter is
absolutely the lesser of two evils!


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26796 posts, RR: 58
Reply 4, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 4730 times:

How long before we see ''Bye Bye Ryanair on the AZ planes ''......  duck   duck 

User currently onlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19186 posts, RR: 52
Reply 5, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 4698 times:

Winter = season with least demand. A lot of airlines make losses during this period.

FR = excess capacity during this period = taking measures to reduce effect.

A number of airlines send their pilots to countries such as India during the winter.



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineNEMA From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 710 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 4697 times:



Quoting OA260 (Reply 4):
How long before we see ''Bye Bye Ryanair on the AZ planes

In August this year Ive seen 'Bye Bye Baby' written on the side of some Ryanair planes...aimed at BMiBaby i think?



There isnt really a dark side to the moon, as a matter of fact its all dark!
User currently onlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19186 posts, RR: 52
Reply 7, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 4682 times:

Funny now BA's plan to close its GLA cabin crew base thereby meaning 138 jobs are lost gets just 1 reply.  Smile

[Edited 2008-10-09 04:11:12]


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineHeeBeeGB From Finland, joined Sep 2007, 424 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 4577 times:



Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 7):
Funny now BA's plan to close its GLA cabin crew base thereby meaning 138 jobs are lost

Highly likely they will be offered redeployment within BA.


User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 9, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 4561 times:

Going to be some very happy Christmases in those 400 households.

Deary me.

Funny how EZY are doing fine and not grounding planes left right and centre, but FR are, isnt it?



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineLambert747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 4470 times:



Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 5):
Winter = season with least demand. A lot of airlines make losses during this period.

A smart airline would augment the route network during the Winter period to focus more on sun holiday markets such as the Southern Med and Northern African region.

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 5):
FR = excess capacity during this period = taking measures to reduce effect.

The excess capacity as mentioned above could be put to much better use focusing on markets where there is demand in the Winter season which are highly inclusive of Sun holiday markets. FR is not a business oriented airline, so it is not as if they would lose any sort of yield.


User currently offlineBlueShamu330s From UK - England, joined Sep 2001, 2839 posts, RR: 26
Reply 11, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 4438 times:



Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 5):
A number of airlines send their pilots to countries such as India during the winter.

...but they, unlike RYR, continue to pay them  Angry

What's your point other than to emphasise the fact that RYR is in no way as adaptable to seasonal fluctuations as other carriers?



So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
User currently onlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19186 posts, RR: 52
Reply 12, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 4354 times:



Quoting Lambert747 (Reply 10):
A smart airline would augment the route network during the Winter period

A smart airline would offer summer-only flights to certain destinations, reduce frequencies or cut those routes during the winter (low season), and operate many ski-based routes during the winter. Wait, Ryanair already does that. Yes, your suggestion about winter sun destinations would in theory enable it to still further utilise its assets during the winter. It already does this to a degree, what with an ever-increasing number of routes to the Canary Islands.



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlinePlanesarecool From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 4119 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 4305 times:

It's funny how over 50% of those who work as cabin crew for the UK charter airlines are laid off every Winter, and yet that doesn't get mentioned. At least Ryanair's crew have stable, year round jobs.

This is one of the few sensible remarks in this thread:

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 5):
Winter = season with least demand. A lot of airlines make losses during this period.

FR = excess capacity during this period = taking measures to reduce effect.



Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 9):
Funny how EZY are doing fine and not grounding planes left right and centre, but FR are, isnt it?

Not sure where you got that from, EZY will be disposing of six A321s and five A319s over this Winter period.


User currently offlineHeeBeeGB From Finland, joined Sep 2007, 424 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 4287 times:



Quoting Planesarecool (Reply 13):
It's funny how over 50% of those who work as cabin crew for the UK charter airlines are laid off every Winter, and yet that doesn't get mentioned. At least Ryanair's crew have stable, year round jobs.

Those charter crew are employed on 6 month contracts they know there is a high chance it won't be extended, FR I assume has contracts with crew on a permanent basis.

I fully understand why FR are taking this step but if you see it from the staff's point of view it's not very nice to have 1/4 of a months salary taken away being enforced upon you, true they still have a job unlike XL and Zoom staff which is the main thing it's just the practice of imposing unpaid leave which is relatively uncommon which has of course created the story.


User currently offlineBlueShamu330s From UK - England, joined Sep 2001, 2839 posts, RR: 26
Reply 15, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 4193 times:

Quoting Planesarecool (Reply 13):
It's funny how over 50% of those who work as cabin crew for the UK charter airlines are laid off every Winter, and yet that doesn't get mentioned. At least Ryanair's crew have stable, year round jobs.

Your talking out of your a$$.

RYR flight crew are on FULL TIME contracts of employment, many charter cabin crew are on TEMPORARY SEASONAL contracts. Some flight crew have paid and lined the coffers of RYR for the priviledge of gaining hours, on the back of promises of full time employent. Now that they are in full time emplyment, O'Leary wants to screw them again.

I'm sure you're not so dim as to not recognise the difference. Perhaps your blind faith in RYR is clouding your judgement somewhat.

[Edited 2008-10-09 12:01:34]


So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9465 posts, RR: 52
Reply 16, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 4137 times:

Well the Boeing strike is reducing Ryannair's demand for employees. There are half a dozen Ryannair planes that were all supposed to have been delivered by now that have not made their way to Europe yet. That must make planning difficult for Ryannair since that is quite a few planes.


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineMhodgson From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2002, 5047 posts, RR: 26
Reply 17, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 4129 times:



Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 15):
Now that they are in full time emplyment, O'Leary wants to screw them again.

Actually, some would argue that they are already screwed.

All new low-hours pilots, in addition to paying for their own 737 type rating (not uncommon any more), are employed by an agency who 'supplies' the pilots to Ryanair. The rates of pay are actually very good, but some of the terms are a little unusual.

For example, Ryanair's pilots are paid only for scheduled flights - so for a Dublin-Stansted, scheduled for 90 minutes, you will receive an hour-and-a-half worth of pay. If the flight is early or late, you will still receive the same pay. There is no 'base' pay; only flight pay - standby duty pays nothing unless you are called to operate a flight.

However, Ryanair pilots also have to take one calendar month off, and combined with my previous fact means that for that month, they will not earn a penny. I would imagine that this unpaid leave will only apply to those not on the 'agency' contract.

As I said, though, the pay of Ryanair is still very acceptable, and pilots will never find themselves on the poverty line! I have several friends working for them, all of whom enjoy the work, and say that the company is good to work for.



No trees were harmed by this message. However, several million electrons were terribly inconvenienced
User currently offlinePlanesarecool From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 4119 posts, RR: 11
Reply 18, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 4095 times:



Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 15):
RYR flight crew are on FULL TIME contracts of employment, many charter cabin crew are on TEMPORARY SEASONAL contracts. Some flight crew have paid and lined the coffers of RYR for the priviledge of gaining hours, on the back of promises of full time employent.

You don't 'promise' full-time employment. Zoom staff were 'promised' full-time employment, and now they don't have a job. Ryanair can do what they want with their staff - at the end of the day, if they don't like it, they can leave. Nobody is forcing them to work for FR.

And yes, I know charter staff are on 6-month contracts - my point is that at least Ryanair staff are guaranteed year-round work. Those who work for Thomas Cook aren't. Its following seasonal demand, and any company with any sense does it.

Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 15):
Perhaps your blind faith in RYR is clouding your judgement somewhat.

Perhaps your jealousy in the success of Ryanair is clouding your judgement somewhat.


User currently offlineBlueShamu330s From UK - England, joined Sep 2001, 2839 posts, RR: 26
Reply 19, posted (5 years 9 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 3818 times:

There is a huge difference between an airline folding and another unilaterally altering the terms and conditions of its flight crew contracts wihout any consultation whatsoever.

Quoting Planesarecool (Reply 18):
Perhaps your jealousy in the success of Ryanair is clouding your judgement somewhat.

That is beyond the realms of warranting a riposte.



So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
User currently offlineFCAFLYBOY From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2006, 586 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 9 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 3804 times:



Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 15):
O'Leary wants to screw them again.

I tell you what, I bet the ex- XL/ZOOM guys wish they "only" had to take a weeks unpaid leave! In the current economic downturn, it makes good business sense to me, and it's only affecting DUB and STN, not like it's the whole company. It worth adding that these are FR's biggest 2 bases, so I would imagine the crew's here generally earn more. I've heard winter can be very quiet flying-wise at the smaller bases.

Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 15):
I'm sure you're not so dim as to not recognise the difference. Perhaps your blind faith in RYR is clouding your judgement somewhat.


AND

Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 19):
That is beyond the realms of warranting a riposte.

Perhaps you should avoid trying to be catty with reverse psychology in the future, it just back-fired.


User currently offlineBlueShamu330s From UK - England, joined Sep 2001, 2839 posts, RR: 26
Reply 21, posted (5 years 9 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3703 times:



Quoting FCAFLYBOY (Reply 20):
I tell you what, I bet the ex- XL/ZOOM guys wish they "only" had to take a weeks unpaid leave! In the current economic downturn, it makes good business sense to me, and it's only affecting DUB and STN, not like it's the whole company. It worth adding that these are FR's biggest 2 bases, so I would imagine the crew's here generally earn more. I've heard winter can be very quiet flying-wise at the smaller bases.

You're doing alot of betting and imagining there.

The simple point is that there was no consultation over the matter and that is in breach of contract, and from an employment law perspective could be viewed as a significant change to working practices, opening the door for constructive dismissal actions. MOL continues to push the limits.

Quoting FCAFLYBOY (Reply 20):
Perhaps you should avoid trying to be catty with reverse psychology in the future, it just back-fired.

Thanks Sigmund, I'll take it on board  Yeah sure I have neither a like or dislike for RYR per se, but I abhor their working practices and ethics. Others on here think they are the champion of all things aviation; each to their own, but for some on here to blindly condone some of their actions and practices, whilst not fully conversant with the facts, is facile.



So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
User currently offlineAl2637 From Ireland, joined Oct 2006, 407 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (5 years 9 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3666 times:



Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 21):
The simple point is that there was no consultation over the matter and that is in breach of contract, and from an employment law perspective could be viewed as a significant change to working practices, opening the door for constructive dismissal actions. MOL continues to push the limits.

In fairness all sorts of companys do this all the time, not just airlines. My company did it )not an airline) a few years ago when things got tough.. everyone had to take 2 weeks unpaid leave. Manufacturing companies to it a bit too.... car manufactures but staff onto a 4-day week when demand drops.. rather than laying people off..

For anyone that thinks FR is in trouble, you really are dreaming. FR have a very strong balance sheet, and will break even or possibly even make a small profit this year... that's against a background of airline bankrupcies and others making big losses!


User currently offlineFCAFLYBOY From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2006, 586 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 9 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3591 times:



Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 21):
You're doing alot of betting and imagining there

Ok, let's say with a fair degree of certainty they would, shall we?

Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 21):
MOL continues to push the limits

By trying to reduce financial outlay and refrain from redundancies, I don't see how this is pushing the limit?

Quoting Al2637 (Reply 22):
In fairness all sorts of companys do this all the time, not just airlines. My company did it )not an airline) a few years ago when things got tough.. everyone had to take 2 weeks unpaid leave. Manufacturing companies to it a bit too.... car manufactures but staff onto a 4-day week when demand drops.. rather than laying people off..

Very valid point. Needless to say look at the banking industry worldwide at the moment!

Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 21):
have neither a like or dislike for RYR per se

Me neither, but I do think that MOL is a great business manager, even if I do not always agree wholeheartedly with his PR antics etc etc.

Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 21):
Thanks Sigmund, I'll take it on board

Try www.nickelodeon.com - lots of kids forum's there, they will appreciate your childish humour


User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7687 posts, RR: 21
Reply 24, posted (5 years 9 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3559 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting FCAFLYBOY (Reply 23):
Try www.nickelodeon.com - lots of kids forum's there, they will appreciate your childish humour

Let's knock it all off shall we, before the thread gets locked. deleted or massacred? (all of you, that is).

Back to topic, the whole thing seems pretty harsh but at least we're not talking about layoffs, extended periods of unpaid leave or furloughing. As for the debate comparing this with charter operations, there is nothing much to compare. Completely different things, no valid comparison. We are in fairly unchartered waters at the moment, and things like this are, unfortunately, going to happen from time to time.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
25 BlueShamu330s : I have no issue with the harsh realities of the current economic climate. My point remains that, as usual, MOL treated his staff with his usual disdai
26 AirNZ : I only find it interesting that I never hear this rhetoric from you when it concerns US legacies on a constant basis!
27 MD11Engineer : Depends on which country. E.g. sending the employees on unpaid leave is illegal in Germany. It is considered part of the entrepeneur's risk to be abl
28 FrmrCAPCADET : There are advantages, even for employees, for a company to stay profitable. Many of the good jobs in my part of the country were seasonal in nature, o
29 Planesarecool : Considering it's a full three/four months that some crew members will be on a week's unpaid leave, Ryanair could have quite easily laid off a set amo
30 REALDEAL : So they have to take 1 weeks holiday, big deal. In the scheme of things much better way to do it, than to sack people. Many millions of people, espec
31 Ned Kelly : I guess it depends on your definition of "consultation", consultation can basically mean any type of dialog that takes place between management & sta
32 EDICHC : I guess it depends on your sense of ideology as to whether or not MOL is a villian or not in this instance For those who advocate the capitalist free-
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